That's not going to change much. Seven cores are better than six, sure, but you're still talking about a CPU intended for low-power devices first and gaming a distant second.
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System storage is going to be the main problem of 8th gen consoles
- Thread starter Dr. Black Jack
- Start date
That's not going to change much. Seven cores are better than six, sure, but you're still talking about a CPU intended for low-power devices first and gaming a distant second.
I also hate the way that patches are grafted onto the main installation file. PS4 is so quick with disc installs that deleting a game and reinstalling it later woukd be breeze, if not for the fact that it will need to redownload everything again later. Shadow of Mordor has 8GB of patches for... fuck if I know. It is not an online game. The Blu-Ray that Destiny TTK ships on is the same vanilla disc with an 18GB content download. It is a joke.
Popsickles
Member
My thoughts exactly. There are obviously people out there with more money than sense.I have had a ps4 since launch and my 1Tb is not even half full.
anothertech
Member
I'm pretty happy with 2tb. I have to choose what to keep n such at any given time, but it beats my old shelf loads of disks that would eventually get scratched to oblivion and never be usable again.
I like having a library that will persist to the end of time.
I like having a library that will persist to the end of time.
I don't have a massive steam collection but I already hit a similar problem on my PC. that's with a 1TB SSD and 2TB HDD for 'lower priority' games.
Yes, you can add yet more storage to PC, but I just don't want to and instead recognised that I won't play everything so I keep the fridge clean(ish)
Yes, you can add yet more storage to PC, but I just don't want to and instead recognised that I won't play everything so I keep the fridge clean(ish)
Yeah, I think it would be great if 9th-gen consoles had a setup where their general library was stored on a large replaceable HDD (preferably 7200rpm), and when you wanted to play a game, it would be auto-copied to the console's built-in SSD. The game would stay on the SSD until you decided to delete it (with a copy still being on the HDD). It might be a little messy, but if the SSD was about 256-512GB, which would probably be cheap by 2018/2019, it could hold a few games. Not to mention that smaller games, like indie titles and some 4K remasters of 7th/8th-gen games, could probably fit on the 32-64GB of RAM the system would hopefully have and run off of that without taking up SSD space.
Hybrid would also be an option, but my problem is that that works off an automatic system where the SSD portion runs the more frequently-used data - it's only good for a speed bump. I think my solution would be better because then the devs would be able to develop their game from the ground up with the knowledge that it would ALWAYS be run from an SSD, which would likely help with development. On that note, are there any devs here that could talk about what a guaranteed SSD could do for games?
jeff_rigby
Banned
Both the PS3 and PS4 will support Playready DRM and when they do, Sony should open up the consoles to external USB (6TB $139) and Network drives. The plan is for the XB1 and PS4 to consolidate media and Metadata to allow indexing and serving that media, Plex like to the home and in some cases outside the home. They already do this with games except games require lower latency loads and game developers haven't been given APIs to access external drives.
Media requires DRM and the PS3 and PS4 apps at this time have self contained DRM; in other words the PS4 console does not have a embedded DRM yet so it limits internal and external drive access. The XB1 OS is by Microsoft and it includes Playready DRM, developed by Microsoft, embedded in the Kernel.
Embedded DRM has the player/codec/decryption/encryption in a TEE (Trusted Execution Environment) and every media file sent to the player is inspected for metadata containing a flag (Unencrypted Antenna TV for example) or DRM keys for an encrypted file. The Player and Kernel have to know how to handle the media and comply with DRM rules. Playready encrypts all media files with flags or DRM before allowing the file to be stored and that allows external storage. If a PS3 or PS4 allows a Play once copy never TV program to be copied off the PS3 or PS4 unencrypted then it would be in violation thus at this point saving files is restricted.
In the PS4, the TEE is in Southbridge and only Japan is allowed to write code for the Southbridge. When those DRM APIs are provided to the US playready developers, they can write the C++ layer and help third parties with the APP Playready DRM parts. At the same time the browser should get HTML5 <video> MSE support, ooVoo will be released, the Netflix 1.1 GB app will drop to a few megs in size, Miracast and Direct WiFi will be enabled, external drives enabled and more. Same for the PS3 with some limitations due to hardware.
Having a video game console at all is a first world problem, stupid notion at work here.
Also if you've got a launch PS4 you with a 1Tb drive you've clearly thought about this issue at some point.
The Xbox One already supports a max external drive size of 8TB, and you can have 2 of those plugged in at a time.
I think 16TB is enough, that's 327 fifty gb games!
There aren't any 8TB consumer hard disks right now, but nothing is stopping you from using a cheap USB raid box to make one out of two 4TB disks. You could even use mirrors or raid5 for redundancy.
I think 16TB is enough, that's 327 fifty gb games!
There aren't any 8TB consumer hard disks right now, but nothing is stopping you from using a cheap USB raid box to make one out of two 4TB disks. You could even use mirrors or raid5 for redundancy.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Yes XB1 can support external drives because it has Playready embedded DRM. The PS4 & PS3 will eventually have the same and I believe support the same external drive specs.
I'm also in a similar situation with my 500gb drive but I don't think I'll be as strapped when I upgrade to 2TB. If I understand correctly your primary concern is having a variety of games available to play immediately (not actually having a digital "collection"). I'd like to hear your followup after you upgrade your drive - if you don't hoard every game (i.e. I delete most single player games if I get a platinum or will not play them again) I think you'll probably be OK until near the end of this generation if sizes don't go up drastically in the next couple years.
Turin Turambar
Member
"Digital collecting", lol.
I agree with OP just ran out recently myself as I was going to install battlefront
I have these
call of duty
Rock Band 3
GTA V
Disney Infinity
UFC
Plants Vs Zombies
Fifa
Resi evil 0
That's without a few other disc data installs dlc etc
I simply refuse to delete because they are games which I can pop in for a short while when the mood takes me, some which I like to play two players, I have a job which doesn't give me a LOT of free time, so I like to pick up something quickly.
Nothing worse than downloading a game and the psn servers are slow (100 Meg connection) oh sorry can't play for 6 hours whilst this slowly trickles down the line then installs, then patches by that time either I'm fed up or don't have enough time left in the day
I have these
call of duty
Rock Band 3
GTA V
Disney Infinity
UFC
Plants Vs Zombies
Fifa
Resi evil 0
That's without a few other disc data installs dlc etc
I simply refuse to delete because they are games which I can pop in for a short while when the mood takes me, some which I like to play two players, I have a job which doesn't give me a LOT of free time, so I like to pick up something quickly.
Nothing worse than downloading a game and the psn servers are slow (100 Meg connection) oh sorry can't play for 6 hours whilst this slowly trickles down the line then installs, then patches by that time either I'm fed up or don't have enough time left in the day
Haunted
Member
Buys 200+ retail games and wants them all installed at the same time, complains about storage space requirements.
Literal example for wanting to have the cake and eat it too.
You self identify as a collector instead of a regular person, something like this comes with the territory.
Literal example for wanting to have the cake and eat it too.
You self identify as a collector instead of a regular person, something like this comes with the territory.
ScepticMatt
Member
Riiight. Even at $.1/GB, that would still add $200 to the price of a console (minus what a HDD costs).
aygomyownroad
Member
It's going to be a problem for PS4 users by end of the generation.
I have 500gb Xbox One with a 1TB hard drive attached and another 2TB one still in its box to take over. I just need a sticky labels to say what games are on it for ease of use.
Sony Should do the same thing and have the best of both worlds.
I need to storage. I'm all digital and I can delete games its takes a while o download and I don't want to have to manage the console like that
I have 500gb Xbox One with a 1TB hard drive attached and another 2TB one still in its box to take over. I just need a sticky labels to say what games are on it for ease of use.
Sony Should do the same thing and have the best of both worlds.
I need to storage. I'm all digital and I can delete games its takes a while o download and I don't want to have to manage the console like that
Hostile_18
Banned
I think this is a bigger problem in peoples minds than what it is in real life. Surely you know the games you play often and the games you'll play once/every few years etc.
You can already see all the games you have tied to your account on the PS4 and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before it gets a visual upgrade to match having all your physical copies lined up on the shelf as digital becomes more mainstream.
You can already see all the games you have tied to your account on the PS4 and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before it gets a visual upgrade to match having all your physical copies lined up on the shelf as digital becomes more mainstream.
What's wrong with wanting to play a game on the whim quickly when the mood takes you? Especially if you don't have a lot of free time? In the old days I could switch out cartridges on the SNES or megadrive and be on the next game within minutes, now you'd have to wait for the download, install, then updates, the psn server was slow the other day when I wanted to play something, by the time it finished it was too late to play as it was time to go to bed, u have to get up at 6am for my job, I don't get back until 6pm, and sometimes after work I feel like playing a game suddenly e.g it may be 8pm I want to play random x game, I can't, sure I can leave it until the weekend but that's why its a spur of the moment thing.
And yes I remember having to wait ages for games to load back in the days off a cassette tape, but we have moved on so far from that, it's like going back to those times, which is great, but back then I had a few extra hours to spare each night, because I was in school with no responsibilities, not working like I am now, and there are people who work longer hours than me with less time, maybe they would benefit too
I carry around a 160gb iPod with thousands of songs on because I can randomly listen to a song I feel like hearing without waiting to add it but remove something else.
And yes I remember having to wait ages for games to load back in the days off a cassette tape, but we have moved on so far from that, it's like going back to those times, which is great, but back then I had a few extra hours to spare each night, because I was in school with no responsibilities, not working like I am now, and there are people who work longer hours than me with less time, maybe they would benefit too
I carry around a 160gb iPod with thousands of songs on because I can randomly listen to a song I feel like hearing without waiting to add it but remove something else.
I can't refer you to anything or prove you wrong but that doesn't invalidate my comment but what I can say is developers this gen are working harder then ever since development has more complex so their jobs are very long and methodically done so to imply developers are releasing more games buggy because of patches is just silly since I feel agames come more polished then ever since the market became expensive. I still remember the buggy mess that was drake and the 99 dragons and morrowind and I never got a patch or anything.
MekaDragon
Member
Wow, it sounds like Sony didn't give to his users lots of storage management tools on the PlayStation 4. No support for external HDDs? C'mon, it's almost 2016... I didn't have a clue, I don't own a PlayStation 4 yet.
The problem is the same as always. It's like the framerate. The vast majority of players just don't appreciate it. Most people prefers eye candy before framerate, and the same will be with HDDs and SDDs. I think 2TB SSD will be too expensive for next gen. Hell, this generation started with 512GB and now they are offering the PlayStation 4 1TB edition like if it was gold.
Summing it up: "More price for less space? No, thanks."
The problem is the same as always. It's like the framerate. The vast majority of players just don't appreciate it. Most people prefers eye candy before framerate, and the same will be with HDDs and SDDs. I think 2TB SSD will be too expensive for next gen. Hell, this generation started with 512GB and now they are offering the PlayStation 4 1TB edition like if it was gold.
Summing it up: "More price for less space? No, thanks."
Oh yes, including a separation of data like that is one thing I'd find very convenient.
I like buying physical because it lets me quickly and easily reinstall big games, but when those big games also have big updates or big DLC (Battlefield 4...), things get tricky, and I'm less inclined to ever uninstall them, which makes my hard-drive Tetris more difficult.
SolarMystic
Member
I had no idea Ps4 tops out at 2tb. Seems like a major design flaw. Got a 2tb in mine and seems to be plenty of space, for me anyways. By the time I run out, I'll have a few years worth of old games I could delete.
Petrae
Member
I don't buy many games for my PS4 anymore because the 500GB HDD is close to full. If I do, I begrudgingly wind up deleting something that I know I'll wind up having to reinstall (and redownload patches). On the plus side, this saves me money as it keeps me away from many impulse buys.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Already put in a 2TB so that seems fine, have about 600GB remaining on PS4. I'd hope we get external drive support down the road, like XB1.
I have no more storage space on Vita and it proves a real issue, I need a 256GB cart.
I have no more storage space on Vita and it proves a real issue, I need a 256GB cart.
Not sure what 'being a collector' has to do with wanting to keep your games installed, but sure, whatever keeps you happy.
*edit*plus, you said it yourself, there is no solution. If you wanna keep 200+ games installed for whatever reason because you are a 'collector' then you have to face the consequences. It's your own choice.
*edit*plus, you said it yourself, there is no solution. If you wanna keep 200+ games installed for whatever reason because you are a 'collector' then you have to face the consequences. It's your own choice.
I haven't kept a single physical game this gen and anxiety over running out of storage space is part of the reason. I've also cut back on digital games and bought a PS+ subscription instead, so that I don't feel bad about deleting them when I'm done with them. It's really changed how I think about games - see them as much more disposable now. I'm not sure how this will play out in the long run though.
what a dumb suggestion, like do you just assume everyone has a good pc that can runs games like a ps4 or enjoys playing on pc?
Shivvy_NTL
Member
My problem isnt deleting the game, but the problem is the updates and all get deleted aswell. There are games right now with like 5-20 gig patches and for me that will take like forever to download.
What i do alot is i delete games that are story focused but games like bf4 and all that rely on the latest update to play, i keep.
What i do alot is i delete games that are story focused but games like bf4 and all that rely on the latest update to play, i keep.
I agree OP, my internet speeds are not great, it took me about 4/5 hours to download a 3.7GB PS3 game, and I know even 2TB won't be enough for me when it comes to PS4, which is the main reason why I don't have one yet
Hoping later on they release a slim with a bigger HD, or at least support external storage
I'd keep patches and delete installs (which is what I do with PS3) but you can't do that with the PS4
I get that most people will beat and delete, but I often play older games and replay games anyway, the hassle of having to re download GBs of patches each and every time is annoying, as is reinstalling anything I want to quick game of
I don't mind with PC because I have more faith the Steam servers will be up in 15 years than the PS3/4 servers, and I have more faith my PC games will work on my next PC, whereas I have no idea if my PS4 games will work on PS5, so I want everything installed and working on the actual unit
First world problems or not, we're on an enthusiast gaming forum, in the grand scheme of things almost every annoyance we discuss here is a first world problem, so I don't see how that is a valid point
Hoping later on they release a slim with a bigger HD, or at least support external storage
I'd keep patches and delete installs (which is what I do with PS3) but you can't do that with the PS4
I get that most people will beat and delete, but I often play older games and replay games anyway, the hassle of having to re download GBs of patches each and every time is annoying, as is reinstalling anything I want to quick game of
I don't mind with PC because I have more faith the Steam servers will be up in 15 years than the PS3/4 servers, and I have more faith my PC games will work on my next PC, whereas I have no idea if my PS4 games will work on PS5, so I want everything installed and working on the actual unit
First world problems or not, we're on an enthusiast gaming forum, in the grand scheme of things almost every annoyance we discuss here is a first world problem, so I don't see how that is a valid point
d00d3n
Member
I am mostly just saying that this is a non-issue if you have PC as your primary platform. I have bought most of the exclusives for PS4, and my fridge is not full yet. When it will be in a year or so, it is time to empty the fridge anyway. It is completely pointless for me to have all the data for The Order 1886 or Infamous: Second Son installed at that point (or for that matter, even today).
Okay, so just to play devil's advocate here (as opposed to actually supporting the OP's claim).
One does hardly need to "have more money than sense" to fill up storage on 8th gen consoles.
EdwardTeach
Member
Who in their right mind collects digital copies of games?
Just delete when you are done.
Just delete when you are done.
I understand why people would think it's strange, but I think it's rather neat to be able to hold a hard drive and say, all my Xbox/PS4 games are on here. More so Xbox, due to it's external HDD support, but you hopefully can see what I'm saying.
What a waste of resources. I'd hope that money goes towards a better GPU and CPU, every core helps. A hybrid solution (that does have substantial amount of SSD or whatever else super fast storage to store a couple of actively played games in the SSD part) seems to be the better option.
You would only be playing a couple of games at a time and though I like my games to stay on the drive, I don't need that old game taking space on the SSD, along with my family photos or what have you.
Saintruski
Unconfirmed Member
I disagree whole heartedly, that's like the only thing in a console you CAN upgrade. Only install games your playing? Who installs all the games they aren't?
CPU then GPU in a close yet distant second. These problems have already risen.
CPU then GPU in a close yet distant second. These problems have already risen.
Evolution of Metal
Member
What about old single player games? Like Batman, Mordor or AC games that you will probably never play. And even if you do, it is going to be a few years later before the new movie/game.
What about redundant online games like previous COD games? Do you seriously need an installed and patched version of Ghosts?
A lot of people suggesting that developers rework patching/installs on PSN, or that they segment games into MP/Campaign etc. However, it doesn't apply to you because you literally want all modes/patches/dlc of every game on your HDD.
Some people also suggest that PSN servers will eventually go down... Now that is a problem that might happen in 10 years for PS3. A good PSN infrastructure will be able to maintain legacy games as no extra cost, unless Sony wants to shut down the network across all platforms.
Weak cpu is a problem for programmers and publishers. It's not really a problem for the end user, unless you find games designed around a weak cpu a problem.
Not really an issue for me. I'm starting to max out my 2TB external HDD, but when that happens, I'll simply buy another and keep filling. Even if it turns from, one HDD storing all my library of games for a gen, to three, then it's still better for me personally rather than my whole house be engulfed by shelves of games.
Ghosts is going no where near my games collection.
CadetMahoney
Member
The mandatory patches thing and the "inefficient" way games are stored/updated is the only big issue I feel.
We already know they play fast and loose with releasing broken games to meet a deadline and then mandatory patch it later. "Here's a mandatory 15gb patch."
We already know they play fast and loose with releasing broken games to meet a deadline and then mandatory patch it later. "Here's a mandatory 15gb patch."
HDD storage is dirt cheap and always getting cheaper. We'll see 4TB hard drives as standard very soon.
It's the APUs which are the biggest investment and have to make huge compromises to keep costs to expectations. Seeing things like the consoles not even able to handle 1080p on many games just goes to show how much power has to be skimped on to make a $400 gaming box.
It's the APUs which are the biggest investment and have to make huge compromises to keep costs to expectations. Seeing things like the consoles not even able to handle 1080p on many games just goes to show how much power has to be skimped on to make a $400 gaming box.
By the end of the day, you can design your game around a weak cpu, but then theoretically you can design your game around low storage budget too. The problem here is relativity, it would be nicer to have the consoles to match a mid to high end cpu at launch so there are less strains on the computational front, than have a many terrabytes as possible in the default console:
The consoles can have different SKU's that sport a bigger drive, like we have now, AND you can upgrade it yourself, whereas you are set with the CPU and GPU for the lifetime of the console. So I say my money should be spent on a better CPU and GPU, instead of super fast storage (where only a critical portion of the data needs fast access to), so storing a few games should be possible in a hybrid drive solution.
The games can also have access to a very small but ultra fast storage, which programmers could have fine grain control over, so they do a double stream to memory (first from the slow HDD, and then to super fast storage, and then to memory). These are all problems that can be solved, like the weak cpu problem, but a faster cpu is IMHO more beneficial than a faster storage solution.
I think the biggest issue is media. Right now most PS4/XBO games are hitting that 50gb limit hard and some are going over, creating massive Day 1 patches to be required in some cases. I don't know how big blu-ray discs can go right now, but what's being offered right now on Consoles simply isn't enough.
Well applying a 1 GB patch needs atleast 2 GB of space.
Brianimaniac
Banned
OP is a digital hoarder. That's a psychological problem, not a hardware problem.
TheRealJakoozie
Member
This is a non issue for most people. Either you have a fast internet connection, in which case you can just delete the games and reinatall later. Or if you don't have the beat internet connection you can buy games physically, and install from disk. Both consoles have cloud saves, so you're not losing anything.
Both my ps4 and Xbox still have their 500 gig launch hard drives. Ant it's completely fine. I own a lot of games, but I am generally good at deleting games when I finished with them. Never had an issue myself.
And who actually collects installed digital games? Seems strange , I always thought the important part of being a collector was getting the game in the first place, not installing it.
Yes, I read the OP. I just don't think this is a real problem for most people.
Both my ps4 and Xbox still have their 500 gig launch hard drives. Ant it's completely fine. I own a lot of games, but I am generally good at deleting games when I finished with them. Never had an issue myself.
And who actually collects installed digital games? Seems strange , I always thought the important part of being a collector was getting the game in the first place, not installing it.
Yes, I read the OP. I just don't think this is a real problem for most people.
inoperativ
Member
Filled up the internal HD on my XB1 in a couple of weeks thanks to EA Access. I now use a 5 TB 7200 RPM external which should be plenty for me for years. As long as next gen consoles still allow external HDs I'll be fine.