*Jealousy intensifies*
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The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
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*Jealousy intensifies*
SliChillax
Member
Very jealous.
shinobi602
Member
Lol, I'm just trying to bring the love baby.
But seriously, coming away from it all that was in my head was "This is a spiritual successor to Mass Effect 1. This is what ME1 was envisioned to be".
But seriously, coming away from it all that was in my head was "This is a spiritual successor to Mass Effect 1. This is what ME1 was envisioned to be".
Cross-Section
Member
Yeah, hopefully it's not another collectathon/Hinterlands-style situation, though I imagine having a fast-moving vehicle (as opposed to simply hoofing it through the wilderness in DA) may help stave off the burnouts.
DA:I was a victim of circumstance at least being constrained to working on the PS3/XB1. Ideally with ME:A being free of systems with 512MB RAM it'll be better.
Cross-Section
Member
I mean, yeah, it was a victim in terms of having to cut several features (like the Fortress management mechanics) in order to account for last-gen memory constraints, but I'm not sure how having more resources would helped the horrid pacing of the Hinterlands. I'm just hoping that these worlds are living, breathing entities as opposed to a mass of map icons to drive between.
Well, I means that's exactly what having more resources would have been conducive to having. I mean they couldn't even have many enemies on screen due to it.
Mediking
Member
WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My issue with that is that in my head there was barely anything to do on every side planet combined in ME1. I know on Gaf it's massively praised and the sequels poo-pooed, but I thought ME2 was the best of the series and I am worried that moving to an open world system will really hurt the game.
DA:I was good fun but extremely flawed, and adding more points of interest to it wouldn't have saved it. I want a tight storyline with good characters - not trekking over a map (or riding in a dumb MAKO) ticking off boxes on a checklist.
(I think the sidequestrs in ME2 were also the best in the series - the robot rebellion chain, the mercs in the swamp, the geth weather machines stuff etc).
DA:I was good fun but extremely flawed, and adding more points of interest to it wouldn't have saved it. I want a tight storyline with good characters - not trekking over a map (or riding in a dumb MAKO) ticking off boxes on a checklist.
(I think the sidequestrs in ME2 were also the best in the series - the robot rebellion chain, the mercs in the swamp, the geth weather machines stuff etc).
DOWN
Banned
That's what I've been praying for. The first one had the most unique mood and vision when it was a tight exclusive. By far the most elegant concept of the trilogy and most deserving of technical mastery.
There was nothing to do in ME1's sideplanets. The side quests in the Hissing Wastes probably have more substance than the entirety of the side quests in ME1.
edit: I think I got DOF working in ME1 too, so I've managed to pull it off on 3 ME games.
edit 2: a pyrrhic victory, it works only in the menu with a performance hit anyway.
Yeah, I respectfully disagree.
There were definitely a few do-nothing quests in ME1, but there are some interesting stuff in the sidequests in ME1. They just get a bad rep because they're limited to one per planet, for the most part.
The most exciting things I found as side quests in ME1 was the small silver globe that knocks Shepherd out, and a world where they had small monkey aliens running round. Planets had unbelievable sky boxes that were amazing, but in terms of content they were just dire. Everything was a pre-fab box structure filled with identical enemies (or those damn worms). Even spaceship quests were the same room structure. The side quests might have started interesting (the dead admiral quest for example involving Cerberus), but they all ended the same way - fighting through an identical box on a randomly generated landscape against identical enemies.
The main quests were brilliant (and the end mission one of the best experiences I've had in gaming), but I honestly thought the side quests in ME1 were dreadful. Like I said, I know I'm a bit of a heretic here, but I don't think open world games work for Bioware and I think ME works better when it's a much more tightly scripted experience like ME2. Fewer side quests with more detail and unique content is what I want - not tons of checkbox stuff like in Dragon Age. I also don't want to have to "find" the good content amidst the bad - just don't have the bad! (Again, something witcher 3 struggled with although they held it together much better and made it clear what would result in good content and which was just checkbox stuff).
The main quests were brilliant (and the end mission one of the best experiences I've had in gaming), but I honestly thought the side quests in ME1 were dreadful. Like I said, I know I'm a bit of a heretic here, but I don't think open world games work for Bioware and I think ME works better when it's a much more tightly scripted experience like ME2. Fewer side quests with more detail and unique content is what I want - not tons of checkbox stuff like in Dragon Age. I also don't want to have to "find" the good content amidst the bad - just don't have the bad! (Again, something witcher 3 struggled with although they held it together much better and made it clear what would result in good content and which was just checkbox stuff).
Melchiah
Member
I played ME1 through for the first time in December 2012, when it was released on the PS3, and did all the sidequests. So, it's pretty fresh in my memory. There were only few interesting sidequests, and even those mostly had similar enemy encounters in similar spaces. That's why they have a bad reputation.
Less than six months ago, I did one of my yearly 100 percent runs of ME1.
Does this make me slightly biased? Sure.
Does this mean it's really fresh in my memory? You bet.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. But stuff like the guy who lures you down to the planet for revenge, a bunch of the Cerberus sidequests, the quest with the Warlord where they send you to "negotiate" but get annoyed if you don't kill everyone, Major Kyle's cult...
Sure they're short little segments, but to compare them to the Hissing Wastes quests (which are also fresh in my memory as I'm currently doing a 100 percent run of DA:I), I think I'll take most of the ME1 quests.
Melchiah
Member
In retrospect, I think the playthrough experience would have been far more enjoyable, if I had just skipped the sidequests. I felt like they just prolonged it without offering anything of value. That's why I hope there's an easy way to see what sidequests are meaningful in Andromeda, so I can just skip the rest, but I fear that won't be the case. I kinda feel like many people who played ME1 in 2007 look at it with rose-tinted glasses. It certainly wasn't the same to me in 2012.
I see that sentiment expressed a lot, but I think it's a disservice to those of us who like ME1. A lot of us just like the game because we like the game.
For instance, since 2012 I've replayed Mass Effect 1 four times. I'm willing to bet I've played far more of it than you have, and far more recently. I don't quite see how I have "rose-colored glasses" because it's a pretty fresh experience, and not a game that I'm looking through purely with nostalgia.
Now I can understand why someone would not like Mass Effect 1, but I'd rather people not arbitrarily assign reasons that undermine my own appreciation for the game.
I feel like most people who have a bad memory of ME1 mostly remember the sidequests of "gather 10 matriarch artifacts, 10 of 5 types of minerals, 10 turian insignas" across planets. And I tend to agree that these shitty quests aren't worth the time, but they can easily be skipped, and since they have no stories attach to them...well, you're not gonna miss much.
But the other sidequests, the ones that ask you to go to each planets at least once to investigate, negotiate or kill some dude, are all fun stuff to do like Patryn says. It gives a good excuse to see those pretty skyboxes and the nice space sci-fi atmosphere that the planets offer while you drive to your destination. Sure, the buildings or caves all look the same, but it's a compromise I can deal with considering the age of the game.
But the other sidequests, the ones that ask you to go to each planets at least once to investigate, negotiate or kill some dude, are all fun stuff to do like Patryn says. It gives a good excuse to see those pretty skyboxes and the nice space sci-fi atmosphere that the planets offer while you drive to your destination. Sure, the buildings or caves all look the same, but it's a compromise I can deal with considering the age of the game.
That's fair enough. For me it's a compromise too far - RPGs have been doing good side quests for decades now, so having every single quest boil down to "Shoot faceless dudes in an identical cardboard box" really ruined the quests for me. Lore and story are good, but it needs to be paired with a good gaming experience to really ring my bells (hence why I liked ME2 side quests more).
Will be interesting to see what they show at E3. I still have hopes for the game, I'm just trying to temper them as I think I get different things out of ME than other folks and the series is heading in a different direction.
Will be interesting to see what they show at E3. I still have hopes for the game, I'm just trying to temper them as I think I get different things out of ME than other folks and the series is heading in a different direction.
That's interesting, because to me most of the ME2 sidequests also boil down to shooting robots/mercs. The only major difference is that the location maps are unique.
The only non-combat one that I can think of off the top of my head is the AI on the space station.
Melchiah
Member
My intention was not to belittle, although it probably seemed that way. I think many games don't necessarily feel the same years after, as they did back then. Especially if you experience them for the first time later on, and possibly after the sequels, like it was in my case. I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy the old Resident Evil games, or something like RFOM, as I did back in the day, if I played them now for the first time. And if I revisited them, my fond memories of them would probably affect how I viewed them.
One example being the scene with Sovereign, that's often mentioned as being impressive. For me it felt very different, like it tried too hard to sound imposing, and unfathomably awesome.
The Vigil scene was the opposite though, and I can definitely see why people liked that one. I loved ME1's atmosphere and story, but found its sidequests, combat, and inventory management worse than in the sequels.
There's exploring a crashed ship on a cliff, and activating some shield on a floating platform. But these 2 were so short & simple(walk to point A, press a few buttons, the end) that they weren't that exciting to do. The AI on the space station was cool though.
Oh, right. Those two missions.
I think I forgot them simply because they have only the barest whisper of story surrounding them.
Valid opinions. I think if you had added the caveat that they boil down to shooting and you didn't find the shooting enjoyable, the accusation would hold more weight. I just feel that you can't simply condemn the ME1 sidequests as simply devolving into shooting when the majority of all ME sidequests across the series devolve into shooting things. It's the primary way of interacting with the world (and I wonder what that says about those of us who love the series...).
Like I said, it's story plus gameplay that works for me. The side quests in ME2 did usually boil down to "Shoot the baddy", but they did them in unique environments and circumstances. Be it fighting off the endless robot horde from the crashed ship, to hunting mercy through the swamps, they were each different.
Also in terms of non-combat missions the middle one in the robot rogue AI mission didn't have any combat in it from what I recall?
Also in terms of non-combat missions the middle one in the robot rogue AI mission didn't have any combat in it from what I recall?
The circumstances aspect isn't unique to ME2.
For instance in ME1:
- You have to fight off the various Cerberus experiments when looking for Kohoku
- There's the mission where have to take out the biotic terrorists WITHOUT hitting the scientists who are drugged and wandering through the playing field
- Taking out the AI on the moon who keeps upgrading its defenses as you take out more server cores
- The abandoned ship that traveled into Geth space and is now infected with Husks
- The crazy lady who killed off her whole crew after her love had an accident and became braindead, and the crew wanted to take him off life support
- Taking out the various Geth outposts that were staging grounds for an invasion
- Find the Monkey who took the recording device
- Take out the Creepers who went mad after the Thorian died, and then "rescue" the ExoGeni scientists
Among other things.
Again, I totally disagree.
I think the problem is that it appears that you're hung up on the environment thing, while I'm more invested in the story.
Again, I have to disagree.
And, as I've said, I'm going through DA:I right now and I actually like that game and feel that it gets a bum rap.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
shinobi602
Member
I agree with Patryn, I found the sidequests in ME1 more satisfying than the subsequent games. I didn't find much narrative to chew on in any ME2/ME3 sidequest except for a few logs here and there. At least the sidequests in ME1 had some dialogue choices and interesting narrative arcs.
@diaspora: You're assuming the environments in Andromeda will be copy/pasty.
And the new Mako controls far, far better from ol' betsy from what I could tell.
prag16
Banned
I mean, you're spending a lot of time driving around repetitive terrain in a vehicle with borderline broken physics. And it almost always culminates in a series of shootouts in a cookie cutter cardboard box. A line or two of throwaway backstory doesn't really 'salvage' all that for me.
(Don't get me wrong, ME1 is great. But it's also my least favorite of the 3, and the one I've played the least; probably only around 100 hours total in single player, while the other two are more like 200-300 each; most recent playthrough was probably mid to late 2012.)
I get what you're saying, but while you've definitely done a good job laying out your reasoning, I still come away picturing you wearing a serious pair of rose tinted glasses. Agree to disagree I guess.
ME1 was more of an ambitious game than the other two in some ways, and it excites me that shinobi seems to be saying Andromeda has a great chance to finally realize that vision and then some.
This is my main problem with it, the main gameplay loop in side-quests for ME1 is nothing short of terrible and saying there's going to be significantly more of it doesn't instill confidence. Even taking away the Mako and the awful ME1 combat it still needs to grapple with the bad environments.
Melchiah
Member
shinobi602
Member
Sounded reminiscent of ME1 to me. Good stuff.
You're jumping to a ton of conclusions...
I never directly compared them to ME1 in their design, I just meant planets should have more interesting things to do in them than what we got in the original game.
Right, my main issue is that it's a low bar.
shinobi602
Member
It's the only comparison I can make since the original game actually had planets to land on and look around in unlike the sequels. I didn't mean anything about quest design.
The sidequests in the sequels are an even lower bar to me overall since they amounted to landing in small areas and usually taking on a few enemy waves with little narrative. But that's mostly down to personal taste.
Mediking
Member
You are truly a wealth of knowledge, man.
DOWN
Banned
I'm getting tired of people repeating that they didn't like repeating environments. As if anyone is saying that part should come back. Surely no one is daft enough to think collectibles are the highlight of anyone's experience, let alone included in the category of praiseworthy side quests at all.
The praise for ME1 side quests is clearly referring to having unique dialogue, story, and atmosphere in a number of the exploration centric locations on hidden edges of space. The later games totally let go of the sense of exploration, offering instead decent linear spaces that gave little in the way of discovery and vast open space. No chance to check out the landscape or stumble across a thresher maw or astronaut preserved in stardust. There's an atmosphere and moodiness in ME1 largely tied to the vast land and isolated outposts that is flat out gone in the sequels, and that's what they are obviously aiming to bring back. Not the frustrations of repetition or lack of content, and I can't believe that even has to be said when there's no information to suggest anything but a talented execution of the finest qualities lost when uncharted worlds were removed from the series.
The praise for ME1 side quests is clearly referring to having unique dialogue, story, and atmosphere in a number of the exploration centric locations on hidden edges of space. The later games totally let go of the sense of exploration, offering instead decent linear spaces that gave little in the way of discovery and vast open space. No chance to check out the landscape or stumble across a thresher maw or astronaut preserved in stardust. There's an atmosphere and moodiness in ME1 largely tied to the vast land and isolated outposts that is flat out gone in the sequels, and that's what they are obviously aiming to bring back. Not the frustrations of repetition or lack of content, and I can't believe that even has to be said when there's no information to suggest anything but a talented execution of the finest qualities lost when uncharted worlds were removed from the series.
You're describing a game that never ended up existing.
prag16
Banned
Yep. But ME Andromeda has something to shoot for in this, for sure.
Absolutely. In terms of exploring worlds it won't be alone too, ME1 basically had nothing to compete with at launch in terms of exploring the galaxy, arguably Andromeda would have to compete with NMS or Star Citizen though neither are story-based RPGs, the element of adventure will be there.
Tenacious-D
Member
I'm out of the loop, but what's the likelihood of an ME 1-3 remaster for PS4, PC and XBone being announced at E3? It would be a cool idea, and visually, the games really need higher resolution textures. I know there are mods on PC, but that requires too much effort for me.
I brought all the games at launch, and I'd love to play all the DLC as well, but I'm not paying $100+ for it.
I brought all the games at launch, and I'd love to play all the DLC as well, but I'm not paying $100+ for it.
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