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[WinFonda]

Alright, I've been on GAF for over a decade now.

You know what? This whole thing sucks.

I don't know Evilore, I don't know him personally. I only know the kind of person he's been publicly on GAF, to which he's always demonstrated himself to me as a passionate progressive, a cool head who backs up his arguments with sound logic and rationality, and someone whom I very much consider an ally on many of the important issues of today. And most of all, he's the site owner. As admin of neogaf, he's helped to cultivate, manage, and guide forum policy that's shaped my favorite game website on the net. GAF doesn't tolerate bullshit or vile cockroaches, and for that I'm grateful. And so clearly he is a person I like to believe I share a similar moral compass with, a person who wouldn't intentionally sexually harass another human being.

So where does that leave me when it comes to the allegations? I feel like "I don't know" is the only answer that's acceptable for me. I'm not going to take sides, I truly don't know enough and I don't know either of them personally. I do believe his accuser had a horrible experience with him, that she felt harassed during this encounter, and I believe he made some very poor choices and judgments. But even after this bad experience she had with him, she was willing to give him a second chance -- in her words -- and continue on with a relationship. So like her, I'm giving Evilore a second chance. If some other accusation comes out, then I'll take my stand, but right now it feels more like two exes having some dirty laundry aired.

What I'm more willing to draw conclusions on is the way this whole situation was handled, and the forthcoming changes to the off-topic, which I think are terrible and detrimental to the cultural foundation of the community. I hope those will be reconsidered.

 

[Lyng]

She was both heavily drunk and "mentally unstable" according to Evilore, how can you expect her actions to be normal? Maybe she thought she closed the door, maybe not, but you don't just assume "Yeah, she'll want me naked in there with her", and if drinking makes you assume that, that's your fault. Self-stupification isn't a defence for sexual harassment.

I asked my wife what she felt about this, and too her this was so far from sexual harrasment as could be, and simply a drunk guy missreading signals.

His reactions afterwards are bad and paint a very dark light, but in this particular situation I think people are overreacting. I would never accuse my old friends of sexual harrasment simply for reading some of my signals wrong. I said no, they stopped. Same that happened here.

 

[Serpens007]

Okay, first of all we obviously all need to take a step back and realize the forum's leadership made a decision to stay out of OT and especially political discourse. I don't necessarily like that decision but it is the one that has been made, perhaps some things will change as time goes on and frustrations die down but all we can do is wait and see.

I understand that you've seen some things transpire that may have upset you, but I think what you are missing is that "politics" post-2016 has been injected into everything, not just NeoGAF. The polarization we are seeing is a generational challenge in my opinion, and it's happening everywhere. The thread about JonTron that you reference is more of an example of this and not a gaming forum aspiring to be political over anything else. Even the NFL is dealing with it. People have very strong opinions about the state of affairs and it's not abnormal to see this kind of discourse lately, whether it's on a gaming forum or in your workplace. If the mods are taking an active approach to cracking down on that, so be it, but I think there will be instances where it's going to be hard to separate politics from gaming (net neutrality, anyone?)

There were plenty of gaming topics that did not get political before -- I'd argue the vast majority of them didn't -- and I hope that will continue to be the case. For example, if I was frustrated with something political I would often browse the gaming side to take my mind off of that. I think you are taking your frustrations with a select few instances and applying it to the totality of this forum's discourse which really isn't a fair assessment. The past year may have seemed more political than usual, but again, it has basically been that way everywhere, online and offline. Either way, any kind of OT discussion isn't in the mix right now, forcing an exclusively gaming-centered discussion.

As for the former mod you speak of, just because he happened to be involved in political discussion does not mean the person he turned out to be implies that everyone else he talked to here was just like him outside of common political views. You will find over the years that there are individuals all along the political spectrum that aren't who you think they are and in the worst way.

Yes. We're living in a politically troubled era, and a very divisive one. It's happening in the US, in Europe, in South America.. everywhere, and one cannot simply turn their heads away. This is more true when we are talking about one form of art. Art is the strongest cultural political statement society can make, and videogames are not exception. So of course politics will make their way into this form of art.

OT and Gaming are both places where this is in full practice. We need them both. We need everyone to learn to discuss every point of view, and we need everyone to be aware of what their own point of view is. Sorry if it offends, but some stuff IS racist. IS mysogynist, and when someone fails to recognize this in oneself, the whole conversation will be terrible. Yeah, "intolerant left", somethings cannot be tolerated when it's about human beings. Every opinion can be tolerated when it's not against a fucking human being in any way. This counts too with witch hunt. I will not use the word "innocent", because non of us are. "Not Guilty" before proven, is more accurate, and is the very reason behind humanitarian treatment of prisioners, the very reason against death sentence. Society cannot forget this.

But, that being said, when you have a political statement, you have to be able to fucking keep it. Specially if you're some sort of public figure, or the place you run is largely following that kind of moral and political statement. Lots of people here are openly against the acts that are being accused, so obviously they are going to outrage, more so if the statement that follows isn't the best. I don't know what is the truth here, but this still can be handled better.

 

[SuperBanana]

Stop being prudes. Some men interact with women differently when drunk. If she tells you to stop and you don't, only then i see a problem!

Some men sexual abuse women when they're drunk. THAT'S NOT OK.

 

[OCD Guy]

Yeah it's not serious rape but it could be classed as sexual assault. It is what it is though. He exposed himself fully when she didn't want him to. Just because he got out doesn't right that wrong. It's like flashing in the street. Think about the other person. They don't want to see it.

The bold is kinda proving my point. I don't agree with similarities people are trying to draw.

What happened here is not the same as flashing a complete random in the street. It also wouldn't be treated equally in the court of law...

 

[Zoggy]

Let me get you a dictionary.

Merriam Webster:


US Department of Justice:


The levels of deniability for this dude is unreal, if this were a Republican congressman he would be absolutely torn apart on this forum.

end of discussion here

Done and done

 

[Green Yoshi]

Many people didn't know. I didn't. It was brought to light now. It doesn't matter when it came to light, what matters is the event. You shouldn't support a sexual abuser.

Do you also boycott all companies that work together with dictatorships like China and Saudi Arabia?

 

[hesido]

Sad to see NeoGAF in shambles.

I honestly didn't know how it was so much hated from outside. Looking at the twitter feed and the generalizations they made put me in an awful feeling. So many devs and gamers hating on NeoGAF.

As for Evilore, I thought his role was in the sidelines after all this time, although I've seen some of his posts that did not make me any comfortable, I did not think he was synonymous with NeoGAF anymore.

Those who want to skim through this thread can use an extension I made by the way (something I did when I spent a few hours each day in NeoGAF, which had dwindled lately.).

 

[Subpar Scrub]

I asked my wife what she felt about this, and too her this was so far from sexual harrasment as could be

Was she basing that off of her opinions, legislation, what?

Besides, would your wife appreciate it if she were alone, drunk and vomiting in a bathroom and I walked in naked? How do you think she'd feel?

 

[CHC]

While it likely wasn't the intention, flatly denying Leupp's allegations while simultaneously expressing interest in courting a "keep your politics out of my gaming" environment has already served as a powerful dog whistle for the worst elements of the gaming community to come out of the woodwork and tell us how they really feel.

This, coupled with the mass exodus of familiar moderators and the shift to anonymous post policing will likely just do further irreversible harm to whatever winds up being left here.

It's sad - I've loved this place for quite a few years, and it's been a real constant comfort for me, but with all due respect it just doesn't feel like the right lessons have been learned from this whole debacle.

I'll be curious to see where, if anywhere, the community winds up. But going forward, I'm not necessarily going to be eager to jump back in. I'll agree that this has been a rough year for discourse in general, but in some sense it feels like these kinds of massive implosions are just the inevitable end state for most online communities lately.

 

[dpunk3]

Agreed. The seriousness of the Leupp allegation is dubious given new information and follow-up statements she made. This is an overblown story. However, Malka has damned himself as an unsympathetic figure in the face of controversy, especially after lying about Goldberg and the hypocritical moderation of his site where a user raising similar points for anyone else being accused of such behavior would certainly be banned.

Essentially, Malka needs a good PR guy.

The point isn't that the claim may have been false, the point is it's a recurring problem. He has done things that are honestly worse in the past that are public, but the fact is he keeps doing this shit. He isn't credible, he can't be trusted in the room with another woman, he's a fucking liability.

 

[vonStirlitz]

[Redacted as the member no longer wishes to be associated with this website, and the reputational damage and distress caused by association with this website. In addition, the user considers that the action of the management, and the nature of the site and members of its community, renders the original terms and conditions of this site void, and it unconscionable for either side to be bound to them. The user reasserts their IP rights in all content and does not give any authority for its continued usage on this website. Despite requesting that the user's account be deleted, in accordance with data protection rules which apply to this website over multiple jurisdictions, the admin team have failed to delete this account, requiring the user to take its own steps to ensure the valid deletion of data.]

 

[prag16]

Doesn't matter if she flirts

It doesn't? A guy's supposed to say, "no, stop, we can't do this, you're currently dating somebody I've never met"? Some might. But it's not a requirement when you're being flirted with.

The point isn't that the claim may have been false, the point is it's a recurring problem. He has done things that are honestly worse in the past that are public, but the fact is he keeps doing this shit. He isn't credible, he can't be trusted in the room with another woman, he's a fucking liability.

Maybe I missed it, but the only two examples I've seen are the assgrab in Spain and this alleged shower assault. Is there a list somewhere of all his other 'transgressions'?

 

[PhantomThief]

I can'r read his mind? If i was to guess. Why is she talking about this now after breaking up after a sexual relationship? [/]I don't understand either why this is a big deal he did not touch her in the shower. She told him to leave and she admits he left.

You obviously have no clue whats going on in the world.

So if I was to jump in the shower with your sister, who then says no, and I go away I have not harassed her? Be honest dude and stop being so facetious.

 

[ExVicis]

The more stuff that comes out today about what went on behind the scenes, and the more right wing fucknuts that keep making these obnoxious drive by posts, the more I start to feel that many of those remaining lack much empathy, or that this community will remain as it was.

I'm giving it a few days, to calm down, but if things go on like this, then I may have to find new pastures.

It's not even been 24 hours since everything came to this point. It's pretty much everyone smells blood in the waters and is swarming. Give it time to calm down.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Fine, I won't use that term if it makes it impossible to have a conversation.

I don't think anybody "ruined" gaf. I love gaf most of the time. I just think a particular brand of far-left intolerance made it quite difficult to disagree with any majority held opinion here. Especially on socio-political topics.

I don't have any real problem with what people call "dogpiling" in that it just means that you are outnumbered and there is nothing wrong with that.

My problem is the name calling and the outright bans of dissenters.

You literally have an opportunity to openly talk about "far left/social-political issues" that plagued GAF.

Again, you're hiding behind general wording. The show is over, the GAF you didn't like is dead, the people holding you back from having "dissenting" opinions have mainly left the ship. No reason to hide anymore

Dissenters weren't banned for saying right leaning things, there were plenty of right leaning people on GAF. Did they have an up hill battle? Yea, but that's just part of the game.

 

[Jacce]

Heres the thing. People thinking this is about this one incident are woefully uninformed. This was straw that broke the camel back.

Let us look back:
1. Evilore in anger posted revenge porn against a girl who broke up with him, all posts about it and discussion of it had been deleted after.

2. Evilore grabbed a woman at a bar against her will and forced himself on her. Multiple GAF members were witnesses and stated the girl was horrified and pushed Evilore off of her and was extremely upset. All posts about it and discussion of it had been deleted after.

3. The very very poor job at dealing with the fact that GAF employed a pedophile as a mod. As reporting at Waypoint shows this caused mods a lot of anger and annoyance. Again all posts and discussion about it was deleted.

4. And now this. And now his response is to attack her character and shut down Political Talk as a punishment on the community.


This is why every mod quit in protest (check their Twitters, they did). This is why members are leaving here for S L A E N T .com and ResetERA.

It wasn't this one incident. Its the history of them. This just was the final straw of bad behavior.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Been here since 2008....i love this place and all of you guys.

I do not know Evilore or anyone involved in this situation personally, so i have no opinion on it one way or the other. All i know is that i love gaming and it has been my passion since i was a little kid and finding this site all those years ago and being able to share our excitement for new announcements, disappointments in shit games, and memes like crazy during E3 and the conferences makes my love of gaming that more real to me.

I'm glad GAF's back, and i look forward to seeing what positive changes come out of all of this.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Because maybe she is mentally unstable. Maybe she acts in ways that would make somebody think this. I find this idea that it’s impossible to question anything she says to be stupid. It’s just as likely both she and evilore are idiots.

I do think it’s wonderfully ironic that NeoGAF is being brought down by the culture it tried so hard to cultivate however. The moderation here has always been awful, starting with Evilore, and now the community left is a bunch of hysterics.

To be perfectly honest, I'm still not convinced that what Evilore actually did is worth a total forum meltdown. But reading Evilore's account of the situation side-by-side with her account on Waypoint and elsewhere certainly doesn't paint her as the unstable one. Evilore's handling of this mess is mystifying.

On your second paragraph, we are in total agreement.

 

[Wireframe]

I honestly hope GAF can recover from this. Losing 4 admins and who knows how many mods is rough.

 

[PhantomThief]

This is what EL said to the mods on Saturday night. This is why the fallout has been so big. If EL just came out and said, "I'm a fucking moron" many posters probably would've come back. Instead EL took the GG approach and fucked it all up. The "wait for the facts" people need to shut the hell up because it's too late for that and doesn't even matter now because of his response. If you're cool with victim blaming, then cool, you'll be in good company on NeoGAF. The rest of us don't want to be associated with that shit.

Yo this deserves to be quoted and read by everyone here.

Okay, so, this is a personal and somewhat complex web of nonsense involving a highly unstable individual I was friends and briefly FWBs with, but I can only assume there will be a never-ending clusterfuck on gaf now until the end of time, which inevitably involves you guys and gals on the mod team in some way, so I'm an open book here. The woman in question ended up being completely psychotic and held a grudge against me after a bizarre love triangle situation developed a few years ago between me, her, and another girl (the other girl I ended up in a long-term relationship with shortly thereafter). This NOLA story she apparently just put up on social media is a delusion of a deeply disturbed person who had a total psychological breakdown as a result of me and the other girl getting together, because she (phew, yeah...) became obsessively infatuated with the other girl (she's bi) on sight when the three of us met up. I wanted to just stay friends with the girl making the accusation and made it super super clear ahead of time that me and the other girl were interested in each other romantically and that could play out as such when we met up. Supposedly this was not a problem for her from accusation, but in reality she uhhh wanted me to die painfully after seeing me and the other girl interact. Plus she became infatuated with the other girl simultaneously to this (she's bi), which created the aforementioned bizarre love triangle that ended up causing her to implode and have an apparently very intense and long-lasting grudge. The whole story about how that love triangle thing played out is, frankly, nuts and scary, and involves this girl bringing us to a compound of dangerous scientology spinoff cultists on that same trip, who roofied us, attempted to recruit/scam me and attempted to abduct/surprise sex the girl I ended up dating, in what was a loving scary situation that resulted in me and the other girl and the rest of my friend circle never speaking to this girl from the accusation again.

 

[dpunk3]

Maybe I missed it, but the only two examples I've seen are the assgrab in Spain and this alleged shower assault. Is there a list somewhere of all his other 'transgressions'?

Aside from searching for and posting revenge porn of another persons SO because she rejected him?

 

[SuperBanana]

It doesn't? A guy's supposed to say, "no, stop, we can't do this, you're currently dating somebody I've never met"? Some might. But it's not a requirement when you're being flirted with.

If a woman flirts you ask her our, you cuddle up, or maybe lean in for a kiss. Something minimal and easy to gauge the interest. You don't strip naked and get in a confined space with her when she's sick and vulnerable. You know you wouldn't do that. Don't bullshit me.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Maybe I missed it, but the only two examples I've seen are the assgrab in Spain and this alleged shower assault. Is there a list somewhere of all his other 'transgressions'?

He also nuked hundreds of accounts and dozens of threads trying to stop it getting out and being discussed.

I'm glad GAF's back, and I look forward to seeing what positive changes come out of all of this.

There will be none.

 

[Green Yoshi]

I asked my wife what she felt about this, and too her this was so far from sexual harrasment as could be, and simply a drunk guy missreading signals.

His reactions afterwards are bad and paint a very dark light, but in this particular situation I think people are overreacting. I would never accuse my old friends of sexual harrasment simply for reading some of my signals wrong. I said no, they stopped. Same that happened here.

This.

I can't understand how Americans can vote someone like Trump into the White House but totally freak out about people like Woody Allen, Quentin Tarantino (their remarks about Weinstein) or the owner of NeoGaf.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Well this is disturbing...I will wait to see what comes of this. I find just everything around this issue toxic - from Evilore's potential dealings (which it may be impossible to get the 'facts' about, but don't look good right now) and the extreme reaction by some members...

I will wait and see if I stay here or not...if not, I will quite gaming fora (this is the only one I contribute to anyway).

...Personally, I don't think the confirmed incident in Spain was particularly serious...seems like a socially awkward guy who had no clue how to act appropriately. For instance, it paints him as clueless in his interaction with women. This kind of physical contact and misreading of signals is a dime a dozen in any club here in Scotland. That doesn't excuse the mail behaviour, however.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

To be perfectly honest, I'm still not convinced that what Evilore actually did is worth a total forum meltdown. But reading Evilore's account of the situation side-by-side with her account on Waypoint and elsewhere certainly doesn't paint her as the unstable one. Evilore's handling of this mess is mystifying.

On your second paragraph, we are in total agreement.

What evilore did was dumb and stupid, but lots of people do dumb and stupid things when drunk. I don’t know if this deserves having his professional life ruined. If, as she claims, they spoke about it and he apologised and they remained friends no part of me is outraged.

But I’m also happy to see him suffer because he’s spent 15 years silencing and deleting anything that’s even slightly questioning of him. He’s created a culture where he’s untouchable so watching him get shit on is just delightful.

 

[OCD Guy]

If a woman flirts you ask her our, you cuddle up, or maybe lean in for a kiss.

Flirting doesn't mean someone wants you to kiss them though?

That could make someone feel uncomfortable too.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

I can't understand how Americans can vote someone like Trump into the White House but totally freak out about people like the owner of NeoGaf.

Not all of us are Americans, maybe?

Also, most voters didn't even want trump.

 

[dpunk3]

This.

I can't understand how Americans can vote someone like Trump into the White House but totally freak out about people like Woody Allen, Quentin Tarantino or the owner of NeoGaf.

You're on the wrong forum to be throwing that "Can't believe you voted for Trump" argument around.

 

[f0rk]

They will be banned and vanish. It's just chaotic at the moment.

Ignore them and focus on the people who aren't just shitposting.

GAF is obviously not going to turn into an alt-right forum.

What mods are going to do all this banning? Where are they?

I just think a particular brand of far-left intolerance made it quite difficult to disagree with any majority held opinion here. Especially on socio-political topics.

Please, be specific.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

I think we're having different oppinions on language then - especially the part about language as a reliable display of human personality. Whatever.

Has the"offender" been interviewed to the same degree?

I mean, what are you still doing here, if you're leaning more towards Evilore's guilt?
As I've written in my lengthy post: if he's guilty, how can you still live with this forum's rules?

In the same very damn article: https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ct-allegations-rocking-neogafs-last-48-hoursd

Evilore said to Waypoint:

He claims an early interaction between the other woman and Malka proved explosive, and resulting in Leupp becoming "increasingly hostile and bitter. He claims she had "two separate public mental breakdowns" before the trip was over. These breakdowns, insisted Malka, were related to a "history of serious mental illness."

He called Leupp "a deeply disturbed, malicious individual," a characterization Leupp, in an interview with me today, attributed to Malka's attempts to gaslight people over his own behavior.

You want to tell me these are the words of a guy who realizes he did some heinous shit?

 

[Kimawolf]

With the new information yeah i am not comfortable with burning down the forum and what not.

It was handled poorly but i really am beginning to feel like if not for the current political environment with Weinstein this wouldnt had been a huge deal considering all the known facts.

It also seems like the mods were looking for an out to hitch their wagons some place else but wanted to try to rip a chunk of the community with them and they found it.

Gaf will be fine in the end i think lol...

 

[PhantomThief]

I asked my wife what she felt about this, and too her this was so far from sexual harrasment as could be, and simply a drunk guy missreading signals.

His reactions afterwards are bad and paint a very dark light, but in this particular situation I think people are overreacting. I would never accuse my old friends of sexual harrasment simply for reading some of my signals wrong. I said no, they stopped. Same that happened here.

Except he didnt say he misread the signals. He literally says shes mentally unstable.

 

[UnblessedSoul]

If a woman flirts you ask her our, you cuddle up, or maybe lean in for a kiss. Something minimal and easy to gauge the interest. You don't strip naked and get in a confined space with her when she's sick and vulnerable. You know you wouldn't do that. Don't bullshit me.

Again you don't know what the context is, what happened before that, she isn't just a random stranger he met on the day. People don't just randomly get into a shower with someone. They could have been kissing or being sexual with one another before that happened. Sick and vulnerable? They were both drunk

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

This.

I can't understand how Americans can vote someone like Trump into the White House but totally freak out about people like Woody Allen, Quentin Tarantino (their remarks about Weinstein) or the owner of NeoGaf.

Yep, GAF has definitely descended into straight victim blaming, hand waving bullshit.

If you're honest take from this is "(some) americans voted for trump, so who cares" then you're being so obtuse as to purposely not want to recognize the problem.

Again you don't know what the context is, what happened before that, she isn't just a random stranger he met on the day. People don't just randomly get into a shower with someone. They could have been kissing or being sexual with one another before that happened. Sick and vulnerable? They were both drunk

Being drunk doesn't make it ok, never has and never will.

Let's assume he did kiss her it doesn't mean it's an open invite for the dude to drop his pants and walk into a shower with her.

 

[Jacce]

This.

I can't understand how Americans can vote someone like Trump into the White House but totally freak out about people like Woody Allen, Quentin Tarantino (their remarks about Weinstein) or the owner of NeoGaf.

Remember this is isnt the only story.

Do people really already forge the time EL posted revenge porn then deleted all discussion and evidence of it (screencaps still are out there online)?

 

[DD]

Spoiler

NeoGAF- Do not Believe

Seriously, tho. Will the Off-Topics eventually come back? The forum is not the same without it.

 

[Old Empire.]

You obviously have no clue whats going on in the world.

So if I was to jump in the shower with your sister, who then says no, and I go away I have not harassed her? Be honest dude and stop being so facetious.

If my sister had a sexual relationship with the accused later! I ask why is my sister even bringing this up? You had a chance to run as far away as you can from him, instead you liked him to jump into bed with him ( he did not creep you then!) This tells me all i need to know about the woman and this a non story a witch hunt.

 

[bobbyphunk]

yes, it is weird coming back this site after the sexual assault allegations.


If anything was done by either party that caused the allegations. the effects of those allegations will come out one way or another

 

[Nilaul]

Man Evilore must regret not selling this site for 5million when he had the chance.

 

[sephi22]

I can't understand how Americans can vote someone like Trump into the White House but totally freak out about people like Woody Allen, Quentin Tarantino (their remarks about Weinstein) or the owner of NeoGaf.

It's almost like different people voted for Trump than the people who are mad at Evilore

 

[vonStirlitz]

[Redacted as the member no longer wishes to be associated with this website, and the reputational damage and distress caused by association with this website. In addition, the user considers that the action of the management, and the nature of the site and members of its community, renders the original terms and conditions of this site void, and it unconscionable for either side to be bound to them. The user reasserts their IP rights in all content and does not give any authority for its continued usage on this website. Despite requesting that the user's account be deleted, in accordance with data protection rules which apply to this website over multiple jurisdictions, the admin team have failed to delete this account, requiring the user to take its own steps to ensure the valid deletion of data.]

 

[Risto]

In the same very damn article: https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ct-allegations-rocking-neogafs-last-48-hoursd

Evilore said to Waypoint:





You want to tell me these are the words of a guy who realizes he did some heinous shit?

So let's add victim blaming to his list of great qualities.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Except he didnt say he misread the signals. He literally says shes mentally unstable.

This.

People are missing the forest for the trees, the only thing that matters at this point is his response. Crafting a defense of "It wasn't even sexual assault" is pointless because he didn't see this is a useful defense for the event in question.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Invisible mod thing is a bad idea. Would be better to let mods have alt accounts for when they want to be normies and red name mod accounts when they want to be mods. Not far off from anonymous mods but better. Leave it up to them to decide how they use either.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Remember this is isnt the only story.

Do people really already forge the time EL posted revenge porn then deleted all discussion and evidence of it (screencaps still are out there online)?

This I hadn't heard...that is pretty revolting

 

[Lyng]

Was she basing that off of her opinions, legislation, what?

Besides, would your wife appreciate it if she were alone, drunk and vomiting in a bathroom and I walked in naked? How do you think she'd feel?

On her own opinions as a woman.

If you had been drinking with her all night and she decided to share a hotelroom with you and leave the door open then she would understand why you missunderstood. She wouldnt like it but she wouldnt accuse you of sexual harrasment either.
Its a mute point though, since we are married and neither of us would share a hotelroom with someone of the opposite sex. Especially not after a night of heavy drinking.

Let me say again. What he did was not okay and he should definately come clean and say yeah I fucked up and missread her signs.

But if what he did affected her so much then why would she go ahead and sleep with him shortly after?
My wife certainly wouldn't sleep with you if she felt you acted like a creep towards her on a earlier occasion.

All that beeing said, the other things that have surfaced (sexual assault, revenge porn) and his handling of this whole situation paint a very bad picture of him and I will be leaving gaf.

It is just this one incident that I felt weird about due to what happened to her, happening to me.

 

[CaseyTappy]

What's your opinion on people who suffer domestic abuse and then continue to sleep with/stay with their partners afterwards?

I would say that's a totally different thing altogether, they stay for reasons like kids, family or are just afraid to leave or change .

 

[Kimawolf]

Again you don't know what the context is, what happened before that, she isn't just a random stranger he met on the day. People don't just randomly get into a shower with someone. They could have been kissing or being sexual with one another before that happened. Sick and vulnerable? They were both drunk

Seeing as after all this they hooked up and still traveled together paints a different picture for me. I was raped (talked about it in an old thread.) And there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN HELL i would ever consider hooking up with the rapist or hanging out with them. Ever. I really feel like this is an ex lovers spat/get you for getting me type deal. And with how everything is (and the initial silence) of course people would go crazy.

But now... eh facts matter and facts change my thoughts.