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[MWS Natural]

Penn also said that he's never seen any evidence that Cumia is racist. This line always kills me. I tell everybody I know that Boston is the most racist city in the Northeast, and inevitably a White person will say “Really? I never noticed.” OF COURSE you didn't notice, you're not the one they are racist against!

This..fucking this so so much.

 

[Infinite]

As a whole, black people can hold puppies, buy belts, and go to dance recitals without being arrest.

At this point we all should know that blacks and Latinos are unfairly targeted by the police. Let's not play this game

 

[backflip10019]

Anyone who thinks anything about anyone is a racist bigot. Sick of the hatred.

Also, capitalizing races is so blasé.

 

[Van Owen]

White men in this day and age need to understand; you don't get the benefit of the doubt. Like the rest of us, you as a White male are laboring under the sins of your fathers. No matter what it will be assumed that you are racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc. until proven otherwise. It may suck but the White male in this society has the burden (there's that word again) of proof when it comes to not being seen as a dick

Yeah, I'm not going to live my life like that, and I wouldn't want a black person to either.

 

[Laconic]

"The White Male". I love how unfettered the author is in his unapologetic lumping together of everyone whom him deems to be of low enough melanin levels as "White". Not to mention he means hetero males. And that lovely, lovely, nigh innocuous, DEFINITE article of "The".

Because all "White" hetero males are the same. Rich, well off, never slaves or indentured servants (re: slaves).

This is racist tripe as its lowest, going after the lowest hanging fruit. There is so much wrong with this "blog" that it would take a dissertation or six to cover it all.

But at the end of the day, it is perhaps best summed up like this:

The author is a blunt instrument of those with power. And by power, I do mean the fraction of the 1% who actually effect their will upon the rest of the world. This is not Race, this Class. Racism is the tool of the elite wealthy Class. And they use it to secure their victory in the Class warfare they have been waging upon the poor since pretty much the advent of civilization.

 

[Dead Man]

"The White Male". I love how unfettered the author is in his unapologetic lumping together of everyone whom him deems to be of low enough melanin levels as "White". Not to mention he means hetero males. And that lovely, lovely, nigh innocuous, DEFINITE article of "The".

Because all "White" hetero males are the same. Rich, well off, never slaves or indentured servants (re: slaves).

This is racist tripe as its lowest, going after the lowest hanging fruit. There is so much wrong with this "blog" that it would take a dissertation or six to cover it all.

But at the end of the day, it is perhaps best summed up like this:

The author is a blunt instrument of those with power. And by power, I do mean the fraction of the 1% who actually effect their will upon the rest of the world. This s not Race, this Class. Racism is the tool of the elite wealthy Class. And they use it to secure their victory in the Class warfare they have been waging upon the poor since pretty much the advent of civilization.

This white male is unsure if this is a joke post or not. I hope it is.

 

[Laconic]

This white male is unsure if this is a joke post or not. I hope it is.

That's unfortunate. Maybe you ought to read some history. Perhaps not what you were taught in high school.

 

[Infinite]

"The White Male". I love how unfettered the author is in his unapologetic lumping together of everyone whom him deems to be of low enough melanin levels as "White". Not to mention he means hetero males. And that lovely, lovely, nigh innocuous, DEFINITE article of "The".

Because all "White" hetero males are the same. Rich, well off, never slaves or indentured servants (re: slaves).

This is racist tripe as its lowest, going after the lowest hanging fruit. There is so much wrong with this "blog" that it would take a dissertation or six to cover it all.

But at the end of the day, it is perhaps best summed up like this:

The author is a blunt instrument of those with power. And by power, I do mean the fraction of the 1% who actually effect their will upon the rest of the world. This s not Race, this Class. Racism is the tool of the elite wealthy Class. And they use it to secure their victory in the Class warfare they have been waging upon the poor since pretty much the advent of civilization.

"White men" doesn't all white men or every white man. Come on dude.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

He started to lose me in the second to last paragraph (giving no one the benefit of the doubt is kind of asinine), but he absolutely nailed the last paragraph. I've mentioned this previously, but privileged groups often feel that a loss of privilege due to equality is an attack on them. That is the nature of power. This is the first time in this country's history that straight, white, Christian, males, have been held over the fire for off the cuff marks they make against gays, minorities, other religions, and women. And it's driving some people up the wall.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

So I read it and initially found myself somewhat disagreeing with what he said (I'm a black male as well) but I think that last bolded bit, if that was his main point, put's it very well. It's less that white men exclusively have to carry burdens, it's more that they need to realize that EVERYONE by the nature of being different and being perceived in different ways, have to carry certain burdens of expectations

To those of you who don't get it, I will say this; every time I encounter White people in any setting I am self-conscious about about being the best example of a Black man I can be so that I don't reinforce stereotypes about My gender and My race. That is a burden I did not ask for, it is one I was born into and you know what? It's exhausting. It is exhausting to have to constantly monitor yourself because your appearance and demeanor may get you rejected, fired, or in some cases killed. It is exhausting. Ask any Indian or Arab person what it's like to be assumed to be a terrorist. Ask any woman what it's like to have to make sure that she doesn't do anything to “invite” men to harass or attack her. Ask any Black woman what it's like to have to measure their words so that they are not viewed as being “angry.” I bet each and every one of them will tell you it's god-damned exhausting. That's the burden the rest of us have been carrying since before we can remember. And now, it is yours as well.

 

[Slayven]

"The White Male". I love how unfettered the author is in his unapologetic lumping together of everyone whom him deems to be of low enough melanin levels as "White". Not to mention he means hetero males. And that lovely, lovely, nigh innocuous, DEFINITE article of "The".

Because all "White" hetero males are the same. Rich, well off, never slaves or indentured servants (re: slaves).

This is racist tripe as its lowest, going after the lowest hanging fruit. There is so much wrong with this "blog" that it would take a dissertation or six to cover it all.

But at the end of the day, it is perhaps best summed up like this:

The author is a blunt instrument of those with power. And by power, I do mean the fraction of the 1% who actually effect their will upon the rest of the world. This s not Race, this Class. Racism is the tool of the elite wealthy Class. And they use it to secure their victory in the Class warfare they have been waging upon the poor since pretty much the advent of civilization.

Every race thread someone comes up with this bullshit and it is getting tiring. Didn't we jsut have a thread where it showed black people with a clean background have the same chance of being hired as white felon. There is a ranking and blacks and Hispanics are on the shit list.

 

[Air]

I don't really see any problem with the article. I think it's informative and accurate.

 

[mckmas8808]

The Penn Jillette quote:


No real racial context to the comment, it's either just him talking about how shitty society has become or being an idiot and actually applauding someone for not exercising their "right" to shoot someone for a minor assault. Much like the rest of the post, the author twisted it a bit to fit it into his argument... which was pretty awful up until the end. The conclusion that white males (at least white males of a certain appearance) will be assumed by strangers to be racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and whatever other stereotype that may exist is perfectly reasonable. That's how stereotypes work. But goddamn, the lead in to that point was rough.

YO! You clearing don't see how horrible that Penn quote is? First of all why should a women be shot dead in front of a police station because she hit a man for taking unwarranted pictures of her?

How is that response justified? And also Martin Luther King? REALLY Penn? Gandhi? He must think very low of those 2 men.

 

[Dead Man]

That's unfortunate. Maybe you ought to read some history. Perhaps not what you were taught in high school.

I walk down the street and don't have to worry about police attention. I have fuck all money or power, but I do have that. Appreciate what you do have.

 

[Mesoian]

So instead or trying to solve stereotyping we're going to expand it?

Yes, because it is literally impossible to "solve" stereotyping.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I don't really understand this? White men had the right up till now to say and do whatever they want to anyone without it coming back to kick them in the arse? I never knew that such power was my birth right.

 

[MUnited83]

edit: welp,wrong thread

 

[entremet]

It's hard being a white man these days

:kappa

 

[Laconic]

I walk down the street and don't have to worry about police attention. I have fuck all money or power, but I do have that. Appreciate what you do have.

How very naive.

 

[DoktorEvil]

He's more or less right, though that's not exactly a good thing. It's a rather defeatist attitude, which is understandable but again not good. I think most people are relatively decent, most of the time, and it's really a small but more visible minority that are more blatantly and noticeably racist or prejudiced in their interactions with others, making it feel like it's even more pervasive than it already is. So to say everyone is going to suspect everyone else of the worst until shown otherwise is just giving into the mentality of those few truly horrible people.

But, no joke, that could very easily be my white male privilege talking and everyone really is that shitty. There is also no shortage of people who unknowingly do, say or react in prejudiced ways without malicious intent but it still reinforces that world view and comes across that way to those on the receiving end, pretty much making it no different from purposeful malicious stuff. Our society is so hyper aware that everyone seems to be looking for things all the time, and there's plenty to pick up on, but I can also imagine there are a lot of perceived slights that are anything but. Which again makes me feel like this isn't the greatest attitude to have even if it is true in a lot of cases.

What's the end goal? Everyone feels shitty and self aware about everything they do and how everyone sees them until we reach some magical low point where everyone realizes we're all the same and we start treating each other like equals? Cause that doesn't seem likely to happen with this kind of attitude.

Perceived slights/miscommunication/prejudice are I think what the bigger issue is at hand.

Undoubtably there are bigots and racists and prejudicial people everywhere you can go. It's the human condition to create assumptions based on the media and community you are shaped on. No man or woman is excused from noticing this. Raised in a Latino household, I was raised to be hyped aware of things an average kid shouldn't be hyper aware of. And it sucks, because you judge people before they have a chance to prove you wrong. You wear two different hats around two different sets of people. It makes life so much more difficult to just enjoy. You become paranoid, neurotic, and terrified of making a slight toward any group that is in power.

 

[Dead Man]

How very naive.

LOL, you have provided no information other than insults and insinuation and spite. Go grow up.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I don't really understand this? White men had the right up till now to say and do whatever they want to anyone without it coming back to kick them in the arse? I never knew that such power was my birth right.

Until the last 20 years or so? Yes.

 

[Tamanon]

Eh, I don't think it's really a new burden, and not really too much of one compared to everybody else. White men have had to watch what they say(for good reason, everyone should be more mindful of what they say) for decades now.

 

[Patryn]

Thinking about this, beyond the "racist" label, don't the rest of those things (homophobic, misogynist, etc.) apply to men in general, regardless of their skin color? I feel like a lot of that is just the burden men carry, to use the article's terminology.

 

[Dead Man]

Thinking about this, beyond the "racist" label, don't the rest of those things (homophobic, misogynist, etc.) apply to men in general, regardless of their skin color?

Yeah, probably.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Until the last 20 years or so? Yes.

If anything the opposite is more true.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Thinking about this, beyond the "racist" label, don't the rest of those things (homophobic, misogynist, etc.) apply to men in general, regardless of their skin color? I feel like a lot of that is just the burden men carry, to use the article's terminology.

This is also true.

If anything the opposite is more true.

I'm not quite sure I follow.

 

[Slayven]

Eh, I don't think it's really a new burden, and not really too much of one compared to everybody else. White men have had to watch what they say(for good reason, everyone should be more mindful of what they say) for decades now.

lol

 

[Van Owen]

Do people not understand Penn was making a joke when comparing Cumia to Ghandi or MLK?

 

[Mesoian]

He's more or less right, though that's not exactly a good thing. It's a rather defeatist attitude, which is understandable but again not good. I think most people are relatively decent, most of the time, and it's really a small but more visible minority that are more blatantly and noticeably racist or prejudiced in their interactions with others, making it feel like it's even more pervasive than it already is. So to say everyone is going to suspect everyone else of the worst until shown otherwise is just giving into the mentality of those few truly horrible people.

But, no joke, that could very easily be my white male privilege talking and everyone really is that shitty. There is also no shortage of people who unknowingly do, say or react in prejudiced ways without malicious intent but it still reinforces that world view and comes across that way to those on the receiving end, pretty much making it no different from purposeful malicious stuff. Our society is so hyper aware that everyone seems to be looking for things all the time, and there's plenty to pick up on, but I can also imagine there are a lot of perceived slights that are anything but. Which again makes me feel like this isn't the greatest attitude to have even if it is true in a lot of cases.

What's the end goal? Everyone feels shitty and self aware about everything they do and how everyone sees them until we reach some magical low point where everyone realizes we're all the same and we start treating each other like equals? Cause that doesn't seem likely to happen with this kind of attitude.

It'll be the point where stuff like this:

Is no longer news because it's so commonplace in our everyday society.

So not in our lifetimes.

There was a Time Magazine cover from when I was a kid that had a digital recreation of what a woman would look like if she had DNA from every race in the world. I wanted to use that as the example, but I couldn't find it.

Thinking about this, beyond the "racist" label, don't the rest of those things (homophobic, misogynist, etc.) apply to men in general, regardless of their skin color? I feel like a lot of that is just the burden men carry, to use the article's terminology.

Yup. Totally.

 

[mckmas8808]

Man, what a dystopian vision of the world.

In America that's how the average black person sees the country/world.

 

[Envelope]

Excepted when profiled. Racially



Asking people not to be an asshole and have a little empathy is not that big of deal.

At this point we all should know that blacks and Latinos are unfairly targeted by the police. Let's not play this game

as a whole, are black people more likely to be racially profiled and arrested for innocuous activities such as belt buying and puppy holding? absolutely. Let's not get carried away and say "BLACK PEOPLE CAN'T HOLD PUPPIES WITHOUT BEING ARRESTED" though, as no one benefits from that kind of hyperbole. It's better to address the actual issues of racial profiling than turning it into a big bogeyman that can be swept away as exaggeration.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I'm not quite sure I follow.

By thinking otherwise you assume that white men are only interesting is supporting current social hierarchies and being ultra conformist. And that "free speech" for a white man is being able to use language to oppress people and give support to the rich and powerful.

 

[JDSN]

That's unfortunate. Maybe you ought to read some history. Perhaps not what you were taught in high school.

Im being serious, would you mind expanding on that a bit more?

 

[Two Words]

I think every individual deserves to be treated with respect by default and given the chance to show their character without preconceived judgments. Every single person.

 

[besada]

I'm just going to get in here early and point out, as usual, that if you don't want to discuss this issue like a reasonable human being, but would rather post "lol" or eject a screed into the thread and run away, then you should probably find some other thread to haunt.

We expect you to treat each other with dignity and respect, and we expect you to present actual arguments and discussion, rather than ranting or mocking.

 

[Mumei]

That's unfortunate. Maybe you ought to read some history. Perhaps not what you were taught in high school.

Well, that's a bit rude. I have, and I don't think your complaint makes sense. He's not lumping all white men together in order to argue that all of their ancestors' experiences were the same, or that none of them suffered; he's arguing that in the same way that other racial groups have to deal with their own stereotypes - regardless of how inaccurate - white men (and presumably white women) have to deal with the fact that there's a history of racism which means that we won't get the benefit of the doubt when we fuck up. And I don't think, "Be more aware of how your race influences how other [non-white] people interpret what you say," is all that odious a burden.

 

[EmiPrime]

Ugh I'm really disappointed if Penn Gillette said those things. I thought he was one if the good guys :/

He never was. I used to love Penn and Teller's magic shows but finding out what a stupid, arrogant, dishonest and insensitive prick Penn is (and probably Teller by association) soured me on them forever.

 

[Infinite]

as a whole, are black people more likely to be racially profiled and arrested for innocuous activities such as belt buying and puppy holding? absolutely. Let's not get carried away and say "BLACK PEOPLE CAN'T HOLD PUPPIES WITHOUT BEING ARRESTED" though, as no one benefits from that kind of hyperbole. It's better to address the actual issues of racial profiling than turning it into a big bogeyman that can be swept away as exaggeration.

He wasn't exaggerating these are actual things that have happened. One man was even arrested 62 times and stopped over 200 times by the police for going to his own place of work.

 

[Envelope]

I think every individual deserves to be treated with respect by default and given the chance to show their character without preconceived judgments. Every single person.

That's the end goal, but "colorblindness" not really a solution to get to that point, as it ignores existing differences in education/opportunity/etc

 

[wenis]

Great post. It is exhausting, the work you gotta do to not appear "too ethnic" around white people. I couldn't have laid those points out any better.

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

What was the white man's old burden?

 

[Mesoian]

I think every individual deserves to be treated with respect by default and given the chance to show their character without preconceived judgments. Every single person.

And you're right. But that's not what happens. I don't know if it's really possible for that to be the commonplace mindset in any sort of culture; society is so dependent on conflict.

This is a cracked article, but I think it hits the nail on the head. We all want universal equality for everyone, but we also want a unifying target to hate. It's just odd and interesting when we find ourselves embracing our former so-called-monsters as societal brethren and find ourselves having to apologize for a history we all know and for things we never did to people we've never met.

But that's how we grow, right?

What was the white man's old burden?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden

 

[besada]

What was the white man's old burden?

Civilizing the "savages."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden

 

[Envelope]

He wasn't exaggerating these are actual things that have happened. One man was even arrested 62 times and stopped over 200 times by the police for going to his own place of work.

I'm well aware of all those incidents, but as a whole those incidents are outliers - indicative of vast institutional problems yes, but not applicable to the majority of black people. I would give attention to the underlying causes that enable these incidents to occur in the first place, such as the well documented discrimination by the police force in the US, as opposed to making my crusade about my inability to hold puppies without being arrested.

 

[rtcn63]

What was the white man's old burden?

Syphilis brah

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Civilizing the "savages."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden

I will take the new burden. Thanks.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Yes let's assume everyone is a dick because of reasons. Seems childish and insecure. We should be moving past that. At this rate robots will have full civil rights before we humans stop this bullshit race hate/i assume u are x/we need to identify as y for reasons i can't actually understand (well aside from rich ppl propaganda to pit poors against each others and keep them off the real issues of society)

 

[Patryn]

I'm well aware of all those incidents, but as a whole those incidents are outliers - indicative of vast institutional problems yes, but not applicable to the majority of black people. I would give attention to the underlying causes that enable these incidents to occur in the first place, such as the well documented discrimination by the police force in the US, as opposed to making my crusade about my inability to hold puppies without being arrested.

The puppy example, however, is a perfect example of how far police discrimination has gone. It's a clear example that nearly any rational person can understand and agree with.

That's why it gets held up as a poster child, I think.

Yes let's assume everyone is a dick because of reasons. Seems childish and insecure. We should be moving past that. At this rate robots will have full civil rights before we humans stop this bullshit race hate/i assume u are x/we need to identify as y for reasons i can't actually understand

Respect and pride in being who you are?

 

[Mesoian]

I'm well aware of all those incidents, but as a whole those incidents are outliers - indicative of vast institutional problems yes, but not applicable to the majority of black people. I would give attention to the underlying causes that enable these incidents to occur in the first place, such as the well documented discrimination by the police force in the US, as opposed to making my crusade about my inability to hold puppies without being arrested.

It's good to put a big fucking spotlight on all those issues, outliers or not, so we can show that the things happening within each case are not okay. It brings forth a discussion instead of heralding a "rah-rah" mentality towards a type of person.