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[King Beyond the wall]

The difference is you were able to share this stuff with your friends and family. If it was like Sony's one hour trials, there would be no reason to share them. This is one time I actually do believe MS when they say, it would be full games. It just doesn't make sense to me otherwise.

Cboat confirmed it was 60 minute demo's months ago. Why is this still being discussed?

 

[not_so_special]

They're not that different.



?

yes..they are

 

[Quote]

yeah...... all of their one consoles they've retired in the past. That's a pretty ridiculous bullet point.

Both are businesses. Take a look at Sony in the 80s... and even 90s. They're no saints. Even now Sony has memory cards which are the ONLY thing you can save things to on their portable systems and they are double what a comparable SD card costs. Bluray is proprietary (at least license-wise). UMD. Mini Discs, etc.

The only things MS has that are proprietary is the audio chat frequency, wifi connector (if you don't have the Slim, or a bridge), and play and charge kits. They even got rid of memory cards and let you use any USB drive.

They're not that different.



Q knows everything and you know nothing, don't you know?

They also do not support HID and require companies to pay an extra fee for an encryption chip for input devices, which kills things like driving wheels.

And the power brick.

Also it's funny you mention Bluray as if MS stopped supporting HD DVD for the greater good and not because it was a non-starter, like their memory cards.

Sony is pretty bad too, but lets take it easy here.

 

[djblackice]

I like this one myself:

 

[eastmen]

Why the difference in perception.

People are kinder to Sony because Sony have shown time and time again they are kinder to gamers, where as Microsoft has a habit of doing the complete opposite (que anti consumer and value proposition policies, nickel and diming galore, using as much proprietary stuff as possible along with the pitfalls that come with it, cutting off support for their consoles abruptly late in the cycle etc). Only the most ardent actually disagree on this front. It's never been clearer to see than recently, with Microsoft back peddling en masse just to try and get closer to where Sony already was.

I'm sorry but how is this ? I've been around for awhile and I remember being part of a class action law suit with the psone because of the disc drive and again with the ps2 . I remember Sony money hatting for games on the psone .

I also remember sony nickel and diming us . The ps1/2 required expensive low capacity memory cards to save anything . The ps2 required an expensive modem and or hardrive for online games.

Sony has a history of nickel and diming customers strait through the vita with its insane memory card pricing and of course the ps3 magicly loosing bc along the way and ports.

Free pass for sony's history number 1

The ram reserve.

To answer your questions though, the available ram allocation presently for the PS4 is 6GB. Though it is fluid and likely to change (probably for the better) as is the Xbox One's 5GB availability. The OS memory footprint will likely be reduced on both consoles going forward.

So MS publicly announced the true ram usage and got a huge amount of flack for it and sony just kept saying 8 gigs while while everyone attacked ms. Now we find out the ps4 is reserving roughly the same amount and everyone gives sony a free pass.

Free pass for sony 2

Charging for multiplayer.

With respect to charging for multiplayer, actually a lot of people (including me) picked at that. However, it is not comparable to what Microsoft is doing, and once again only highlights the gulf in value proposition between these two consoles. On the Xbox One you pay $60 for Gold to play online and get a bunch of features that should have been free anyway but are behind a paywall. On the PS4, you get all those features free without PS+, including F2P gaming (including online), however, to play online you do have to pay, but what does that $50 (cheaper than Gold) get you? Not just online play, but a crap load of free content and games, 1 or more every month in-fact, as well as a whole host of other freebies and discounts. That's why Sony is getting less flak for their move, because for that $50 they are actually giving us a massive amount of value.

Its 2013 , if you like online multiplayer you have to then pay on both next gen consoles. If your paying for multiplayer what does it matter if something is behind a pay wall. Your still getting it with that one time fee.

Now you can claim that you will buy a ps4 and never pay for ps+ and only use those apps. Sure but it will be hard for me to take seriously as you can do the majority of them on the ps3 or a bluray player.

As for pricing I just bought xbox live for $30 today . I bought 4 years worth. That's $120 for 4 years of live. It equals 2.5 dollars a month Cheaper per month and ps+ actually is.

Xbox live is also giving me free games and other freebies.

This is free pass for sony 3

DRM love.

On the last point about DRM, well Eastmen, lets just say I'm not the least bit surprised. The sad fact is though, even post DRM 180, you can STILL download your games if that's what you prefer. There's no reason Microsoft can't still offer all the perks of their previous policies for their digital library, they don't because they choose not to and would rather maximise profits over offering better value to their oft gullible consumers.

If you don't want to take the fantastic advantages involved in being able to trade in your games to add better value to your purchases, your loss.

With Ms's old system I would have been able to trade games to add better value to my purchases (maybe if I wanted to go through the hassle of getting scamed on ebay or ripped off at gamestop) I also would have been able to shop around for the best price for digital content including but not limited to the Xbox store , Target , Gamestop , Best buy and so on .

When portal 2 came out , 2 weeks after launch I purchased the game for $35 at gamestop loaded it onto my steam account and that was that. It was $25 less than on steam. I did the same with bioschock infinite at $45 vs $60 on steam.

Now are you calling all steam users gullible ?

I don't just go buy every game and trade in each game a week after release. I purchase few games and make sure they are worth while purchases that I wll play for months. Each of the previous generations I've bought all the systems avalible and I have not traded in a game since my ps2.
I've been on steam since the start back in what 2004 and not once have I said that game is fun but I wish I could sell it now.


Everyone has their own view points and its fine if you think Sony is some great company with no skeletons in their past but the fact of the matter is that all companies have skeletons in the closet . Sony is not any different than MS

The only real difference I can see is that the ps1 and ps2 were born when the internet was just starting to be used while the xbox 360 was born and lived while people had 24 hour acess to the internet in the palm of their hand.

But there are some of us that remember the good and bad of the ps1 and ps2 and of course the ps3 and we would never actually try to make a case for sony being a great consumer rights company.

 

[ElTorro]

So MS publicly announced the true ram usage and got a huge amount of flack for it and sony just kept saying 8 gigs while while everyone attacked ms.

I am not aware of a public announcement, only of a leak [1] that some representative confirmed casually during an interview. I am pretty sure that they didn't plan to reveal anything since they have been way more secretive about specs than Sony.

[1] http://kotaku.com/the-five-possible-states-of-xbox-one-games-are-strangel-509597078

 

[scaryrobots]

nevermind

 

[Yoday]

Its 2013 , if you like online multiplayer you have to then pay on both next gen consoles. If your paying for multiplayer what does it matter if something is behind a pay wall. Your still getting it with that one time fee.

It matters because a good number of people have no interest in multiplayer. So what your saying is that only people who play games online deserve to use Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, party chat, and game DVR? There is absolutely no way you can spin charging for those apps as a good thing, or even an acceptable thing.

 

[Chitown B]

They also do not support HID and require companies to pay an extra fee for an encryption chip for input devices, which kills things like driving wheels.

And the power brick.

Also it's funny you mention Bluray as if MS stopped supporting HD DVD for the greater good and not because it was a non-starter, like their memory cards.

Sony is pretty bad too, but lets take it easy here.

Pretty sure there are third party driving wheels, and I own a third party controller. Those aren't killed, they just require companies to license.

what about the power brick? I'll never understand what this is an issue. It sits behind my TV cabinet. So?

 

[dragonbane]

They clearly want their margins to go up. That's why they moved to off the shelf parts for the PS4. Do you agree?

Taking that a step further, they are able to tax you to use their MP services and will therefore make more revenue per PS4 owner and reduce the content costs associated with the PS+ service. Those two go hand in hand toward increasing their margins.

I agree with that. I still think they will offer roughly the same amount of free games when they can (after 1-2 years). I don't think they will loose that much money over it and they want to keep the good reputation of PS+.

So MS publicly announced the true ram usage and got a huge amount of flack for it and sony just kept saying 8 gigs while while everyone attacked ms. Now we find out the ps4 is reserving roughly the same amount and everyone gives sony a free pass.

Free pass for sony 2

MS didn't announce anything publicly. And not everyone gave Sony a free pass, the thread was huge.

Now you can claim that you will buy a ps4 and never pay for ps+ and only use those apps. Sure but it will be hard for me to take seriously as you can do the majority of them on the ps3 or a bluray player.


This is free pass for sony 3

You are talking about apps only. Maybe he just wants to play next gen SP games and use apps? On a single device? At least that's me, I don't give a shit about MP.

 

[Coxy]

Why exactly has this thread has turned into a bunch of people questioning Cboat's credibility and rehashing old rumors we continue to know nothing about?

it's really not hard to figure out the commonality of the doubters

 

[ElTorro]

And back to topic:

Launch volumes are not really an issue. This was simply a software issue in terms of getting local language and voice support in the dash. it's pretty straightforward, but disappointing I know for people who are missing launch.

Still #teamcboat

 

[Myshkin]

You wrote that developers said, "see, we can assume it was this." Which developers said this? Just wondering if I missed this somewhere.

I didn't say that.

[I should have anticipated there would inevitably be someone who didn't read *very* closely and would react.]

 

[jond76]

it's really not hard to figure out the commonality of the doubters

Speaking for myself, my issue is that while I do think CBoat has legit inside sources and shares some good info, I also think he speculates and passes it off as fact. I'll cite PoP, ME as a MS reveal, and the ridiculous MS paying 3rd parties to not mention PS4 versions of games as proof.

That's why I can't believe everything he says. As far as the 60mins demo family sharing, its easy to say anything once the function was axed.

For example, I could claim that in 1964, Kennedy was going to nuke Cuba. You could never prove me wrong.

But yeah, I think CBoat has legit sources, but I think he uses that position to throw in some speculation as well.

 

[Quadraphonic]

Well, then you're left with two different ways to handle it.

Assume MS was trying to be deceptive and sneaky. Like with the Kinect requirement, not game selling, 24-hour check and other things. And just go on with life knowing that it never existed.

Or you can be angry that supposedly they killed a mythical feature because of people who 'just don't get it' and hold a grudge, endlessly pining for something that will never exist because it never did.

And these 1 hour trials are more than demos, being that they have game saves, achievements and are full games, rather than a sampling. Those are PS+ perks. You still have to PAY to get these special demos on the PS3. It's not something that's freely given away.

 

[Teletraan1]

Speaking for myself, my issue is that while I do think CBoat has legit inside sources and shares some good info, I also think he speculates and passes it off as fact. I'll cite PoP, ME as a MS reveal, and the ridiculous MS paying 3rd parties to not mention PS4 versions of games as proof.

That's why I can't believe everything he says. As far as the 60mins demo family sharing, its easy to say anything once the function was axed.

For example, I could claim that in 1964, Kennedy was going to nuke Cuba. You could never prove me wrong.

But yeah, I think CBoat has legit sources, but I think he uses that position to throw in some speculation as well.

So you discredit everything he says because out of like 20 very specific reveals he missed on a few that really could have changed at the last minute, moved to gamescon, were false leaks towards his source or perhaps gotten wrong with the Halo5 misdirection? Such lofty standards. Hope you have scored 100% on everything your whole life to be able to hold someone else to that. Because when most other people on the planet see that kind of record they take it on face value.

 

[Samyy]

That's why I can't believe everything he says. As far as the 60mins demo family sharing, its easy to say anything once the function was axed.

That street runs both ways buddy

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Speaking for myself, my issue is that while I do think CBoat has legit inside sources and shares some good info, I also think he speculates and passes it off as fact. I'll cite PoP, ME as a MS reveal, and the ridiculous MS paying 3rd parties to not mention PS4 versions of games as proof.

That's why I can't believe everything he says. As far as the 60mins demo family sharing, its easy to say anything once the function was axed.

But yeah, I think CBoat has legit sources, but I think he uses that position to throw in some speculation as well.

Let's just pretend that mirror's edge 2 wasn't unveiled at E3 (who's to say it wasn't going to be showing up at microsoft conference, they're clearly in bed with EA), that the whole "mgs5 is exclusive to the xbox one" deal on twitter never happened (and that people had to wait for the trailer to come out on youtube to actually have a confirmation it was coming to the ps4) or that he mentioned prince of persia "got puled proba. dont no. but im sory any was.", which might just have been someone feeding him false information about halo.
People have posted a giant list of things he's gotten right, the best you could come up with were 3 things, and some are not even "wrong". Yeah, the guy can't be trusted.

 

[nib95]

Might sound brazen, but anyone who still doubts CBoat at this stage might as well have warrior stamped on their forehead. Seriously now...This guy has a proven track record and it dates further back than just this new generation of reveals and conferences.

 

[jond76]

Let's just pretend that mirror's edge 2 wasn't unveiled at E3 (who's to say it wasn't going to be showing up at microsoft conference, they're clearly in bed with EA), that the whole "mgs5 is exclusive to the xbox one" deal on twitter never happened (and that people had to wait for the trailer to come out on youtube to actually have a confirmation it was coming to the ps4) or that he mentioned prince of persia "got puled proba. dont no. but im sory any was.", which might just have been someone feeding him false information about halo.
People have posted a giant list of things he's gotten right, the best you could come up with were 3 things, and some are not even "wrong". Yeah, the guy can't be trusted.

You could read my post that way, but you'd be wrong. I clearly said I think the guy has legit info/contacts. But the inconsistencies gotta come from somewhere. I didn't say he couldn't be trusted, I just choose not to take everything he says as gospel, ESPECIALLY things that have no way to be proved.


I'm sorry I can't bring myself to believe every single word he says, because it seems to me that every now and then he tries to draw his own conclusions and sometimes they fall flat.

You seem offended. Sorry

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

You could read my post that way, but you'd be wrong. I clearly said I think the guy has legit info/contacts. But the inconsistencies gotta come from somewhere. I didn't say he couldn't be trusted, I just choose not to take everything he says as gospel, ESPECIALLY things that have no way to be proved.


I'm sorry I can't bring myself to believe every single word he says, because it seems to me that every now and then he tries to draw his own conclusions and sometimes they fall flat.

You seem offended. Sorry

Not offended, just incredibly amused at how doubters are almost always microsoft fans.

 

[jond76]

Not offended, just incredibly amused at how doubters are almost always microsoft fans.

I'd be the same way with a Sony insider.

I'm amused that some people will believe everything a random person on the internet tells them.

 

[Quadraphonic]

I'd be the same way with a Sony insider.

I'm amused that some people will believe everything a random person on the internet tells them.

But it wasn't just him. Two different Pastebins from supposed MS employees also corroborated that limit.

 

[jond76]

But it wasn't just him. Two different Pastebins from supposed MS employees also corroborated that limit.

People were getting banned for posting pastebins too. There was a reason for that.

I don't think my stance is unreasonable. Its not like I'm calling CBoat a worthless troll, the fact that he still posts is proof that he's not. I just maintain a small healthy dose of skepticism.

 

[Zephyx]

You could read my post that way, but you'd be wrong. I clearly said I think the guy has legit info/contacts. But the inconsistencies gotta come from somewhere. I didn't say he couldn't be trusted, I just choose not to take everything he says as gospel, ESPECIALLY things that have no way to be proved.


I'm sorry I can't bring myself to believe every single word he says, because it seems to me that every now and then he tries to draw his own conclusions and sometimes they fall flat.

You seem offended. Sorry

Inconsistencies or not, the guy/whatever he/she is has proven his/her worth time and time again. If you choose to be skeptical, that's on you but at this stage, there's no reason to not believe as he/she gains nothing by doing this (aside from a few hours of internet fame) but he/she keeps doing these things for us.

I could agree that he/she speculates things sometimes but I see nothing wrong with that ESPECIALLY if it is the most logical answer to an open area of his/her statements. He/She is even humble enough to apologize when something goes wrong so that goes a long way.

Anyway, I'm happy we have someone like him/her in the forums to spice things up and I don't see why people are still doubting him/her especially with that track record. With your reasoning, you should not trust anyone firmly stating facts, speculating or drawing conclusion even if they have legit info on their hands. You may as well not trust MS for announcing these 180s given they are capable of doing a 360 as you also have no way to prove that it may happen sometime in the future.

 

[BigJonsson]

I'd rather have a guy that gets most things right than a bunch of people who get nothing right

 

[jond76]

Inconsistencies or not, the guy/whatever he/she is has proven his/her worth time and time again. If you choose to be skeptical, that's on you but at this stage, there's no reason to not believe as he/she gains nothing by doing this (aside from a few hours of internet fame) but he/she keeps doing these things for us.

I could agree that he/she speculates things sometimes but I see nothing wrong with that ESPECIALLY if it is the most logical answer to an open area of his/her statements. He/She is even humble enough to apologize when something goes wrong so that goes a long way.

Anyway, I'm happy we have someone like him/her in the forums to spice things up and I don't see why people are still doubting him/her especially with that track record. With your reasoning, you should not trust anyone firmly stating facts, speculating or drawing conclusion even if they have legit info on their hands. You may as well not trust MS for announcing these 180s given they are capable of doing a 360 as you also have no way to prove that it may happen sometime in the future.

Its not that broad a spectrum. I'm not a tinfoil hat guy. I'm more willing to believe scoops if they are given a time line. I'll be all ears for CBoats info on gamescom, because there will come a time when it will come to fruition. But if he gets some wrong again like at E3, I'll be more skeptical for the next set of leaks.

 

[benny_a]

Its not that broad a spectrum. I'm not a tinfoil hat guy. I'm more willing to believe scoops if they are given a time line. I'll be all ears for CBoats info on gamescom, because there will come a time when it will come to fruition. But if he gets some wrong again like at E3, I'll be more skeptical for the next set of leaks.

"Wrong again like at E3."

That's 8 years of leaks and he mixed up PoP and Halo because he probably only saw a glimpse of the sand dune stuff. Nice.

 

[nib95]

Its not that broad a spectrum. I'm not a tinfoil hat guy. I'm more willing to believe scoops if they are given a time line. I'll be all ears for CBoats info on gamescom, because there will come a time when it will come to fruition. But if he gets some wrong again like at E3, I'll be more skeptical for the next set of leaks.

Afaik he only got one thing wrong, and that was PoP which he apparently said he got confused with Halo (the clothes, sands etc might have fooled him). Mirrors Edge is semantics at this point. We saw it. Who cares at which conference. Everything else he was right about, as he always is.


Also, who wants to bet that the vast majority of (if not all) people who doubt Cboat on these forums are big Microsoft/Xbox One fans?

 

[jond76]

Jeez yall take this too personally. Sorry.

The X1 version of Mirrors Edge 2 was outted on Amazon before his prediction, so it made sense for him to say it would be at MS's brief. That would be an example of speculation.

I just take a wait-&-see approach with him. Is that so wrong?

 

[famousmortimer]

I was the one that got the ms paying for third party silence at e3 wrong... not cboat.


Or atleast i never saw cboat post about it.

 

[jond76]

I was the one that got the ms paying for third party silence at e3 wrong... not cboat.


Or atleast i never saw cboat post about it.

Glad you popped in. You have some sources too, yes? Would you suggest that I take everything you pass along as 100% guaranteed to come to pass?

That's the only point I'm trying to make.

 

[nib95]

I was the one that got the ms paying for third party silence at e3 wrong... not cboat.


Or atleast i never saw cboat post about it.

Did you get that wrong though? Did anyone at Microsoft's presser mention "PS4" at all (not that they should have)? Did any of the multi platform devs even say coming to "next generation consoleS" or just that they were coming to the Xbox One? I'm pretty sure you were right on that one, but I can't remember for sure.

 

[Soul Destroyer]

Stuff.

There's literally so many holes/selective arguments to reinforce your views in that post that it's laughable.

Cool you prefer the Xbox over the PS. Good for you. You're entitled to that. However there's no need to try and drag "the other team down" to make yourself feel better about your purchase.

No one gets any free passes here on GAF. You're delusional if you think that is the case.

 

[benny_a]

Did you though, did anyone at Microsoft's presser mention "PS4" at all? Did they even say coming to "next generation consoles" or just that they were coming to the Xbox One? I'm pretty sure you were right on that one.

That was not the claim. And nobody mentioned Xbox One at the Sony presser either.

 

[nib95]

That was not the claim. And nobody mentioned Xbox One at the Sony presser either.

No of course. I wouldn't expect them to. What I did expect is for multiplatform devs to say "coming to the next generation consoles" but they kept it specific. Most probably in both the Sony and Microsoft shows but I can't be sure.

I thought the claim was that they had agreements not to mention the other versions, and that certainly seemed true.

 

[famousmortimer]

Glad you popped in. You have some sources too, yes? Would you suggest that I take everything you pass along as 100% guaranteed to come to pass?

No, never.

If Jack Tretton posted here he would get stuff wrong because things change (even if he was the one changing them).

I've been right a lot more than I've been wrong but each time I've been wrong there's a fairly unique reason. The most common thing is that shit changes. If I said the ps4 had 4gb of ram in January... when February happened everyone would say I was wrong when in reality there was 4gb of ram in January, they changed it in the week leading up to the event. I know first party developer who learned about it at the same time I did.


The ms third party thing was a rumor that solid sources believed. They believed it to be true, so I did as well, turns out we all were wrong.



I also said that mirrors edge 2 was a xbox one exclusive... and that's because I made a jump in logic i shouldn't have. I knew that EA had some exclusives with Microsoft and once me2 showed up at amazon's around the world I knew it wasn't on any ps4 release lists so i felt comfortable saying it was xbox 1 only. Turns out it just wasn't on the list I saw. Total fuck up on my part.



Cboat seems to me to actually work somewhere with access to this stuff so he gets some really deep and good info... but even so he is going to be wrong from time to time and it may or may not be his fault. It's tricky.

 

[Myshkin]

I was the one that got the ms paying for third party silence at e3 wrong... not cboat.


Or atleast i never saw cboat post about it.

cboat said it in his e3 preview thread, first bullet item.

 

[benny_a]

I thought the claim was that they had agreements not to mention the other versions, and that certainly seemed true.

The claim was that Microsoft bought the silence of developers on other versions.

It extended past the press conference and included showfloor, behind closed doors demos, any avenua at E3. If you heard something like "It's coming to Xbox One, we don't have further comments" it wouldn't have meant mean Xbox One exclusive.

 

[benny_a]

cboat said it in his e3 preview thread, first bullet item.

Yup. Dragonbane has an overview:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=76421147&postcount=6670

 

[nib95]

The claim was that Microsoft bought the silence of developers on other versions.

It extended past the press conference and included showfloor, behind closed doors demos, any avenua at E3. If you heard something like "It's coming to Xbox One, we don't have further comments" it wouldn't have meant mean Xbox One exclusive.

I see. I thought it only meant for the main conferences.

 

[famousmortimer]

cboat said it in his e3 preview thread, first bullet item.

It was definitely a very wide spread rumor. And there may have been some truth to it... maybe they tried and publishers said no. Maybe they did but then sony paid also. Maybe none of it ever happened and it was just a bunch of developers on the floor of e3 a bit paranoid and spreading gossip. It's just easiest for me to chalk it up as a fuck up instead of getting into the minutia of why it could have possibly still happened. If cboat said it also I'm sure it's because it was everywhere. I heard from Sony people, an EA person and a random indie dev. It was a very wide spread rumor.

 

[famousmortimer]

Also, on that tip... the out of nowhere exciting announcement i teased at for gamescom is evidently not happening until gdc now. So i really suck for even hinting at that.

 

[Darklor01]

Also, on that tip... the out of nowhere exciting announcement i teased at for gamescom is evidently not happening until gdc now. So i really suck for even hinting at that.

As you said, things change. Not much in life is certain.

 

[TheHater]

Also, on that tip... the out of nowhere exciting announcement i teased at for gamescom is evidently not happening until gdc now. So i really suck for even hinting at that.

GDC 2014? Wasn't GDC in March?

 

[ElTorro]

Also, on that tip... the out of nowhere exciting announcement i teased at for gamescom is evidently not happening until gdc now. So i really suck for even hinting at that.

 

[beast786]

Also, on that tip... the out of nowhere exciting announcement i teased at for gamescom is evidently not happening until gdc now. So i really suck for even hinting at that.

So march of 2014?

 

[NavyPharaoh]

I dont pledge my allegiance to any console, but damn these ppl in Microsoft's enthusiasts didnt believe the drm talk. Didn't believe always on Kinect. Then once its true yall defend it. They pull a 180 on everything u SUPPOSEDLY love about the system & u defend that too. Now u question the validity of the Microsoft Moses CBOAT, cause 5% of his prophecies miss... unbelievable

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

GDC 2014? Wasn't GDC in March?

There's other GDC events this year though, just not the main ones.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Also, on that tip... the out of nowhere exciting announcement i teased at for gamescom is evidently not happening until gdc now. So i really suck for even hinting at that.

Shouldn't have even mentioned GDC. Watch it slip past that, now. Ha!