Cave Johnson
Member
Mario. Although I'll attest to Ultima's worldbuilding and features.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ultima Underworld series being revived as Underworld Ascension by Paul Neurath
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
- Status
Mario. Although I'll attest to Ultima's worldbuilding and features.
Wiktor
Member
Mario? When it comes to industry? Sure, seeing as it bassicaly rescued the console industry. When it comes to influencing actual games thouh? No, not even remotely close.
Lumpy Onion
Member
Loved Ultima Underworld 1&2. Although I would be lying if I said I ever got too far into them. My thing was making detailed notes on the in-game map. Really made me felt like an explorer charting new territory. My love of these lead me to embracing the King's Fireld and Souls games.
Lord_Balkan
Member
Id say Mario influenced non-rpg console games, and Ultima influenced console RPGs and PC games.
I also don't really understand the term JRPG. Like, if you look at the earliest JRPGs
Dragon's Quest
Ultima
JRPGs just seemed to be more accessible versions of PC rpg's where you were able to play with couple of buttons, instead of typing in keyboard commands. But that is a little off topic.
Id say Mario influenced non-rpg console games, and Ultima influenced console RPGs and PC games.
I also don't really understand the term JRPG. Like, if you look at the earliest JRPGs
Dragon's Quest
.
Here's a more similar Ultima pic:
If that means handhelds reign supreme once more I welcome it.
... More ideally I get that overlapping with the good parts of today. Want to eat my cake and have it too.
Yeah, from what I played it's kind of a pain to control and move in the world, but I can tell it probably has design more akin to, say, Metroid, Symphony of the Night, or Dark Souls in that it's a large, fully connected world with a lot to find and do, rather than being stage based like Thief or sprawling open world like Elder Scrolls. That alone has a lot of my interest.
Id say Mario influenced non-rpg console games, and Ultima influenced console RPGs and PC games.
I also don't really understand the term JRPG. Like, if you look at the earliest JRPGs
Dragon's Quest
Ultima
JRPGs just seemed to be more accessible versions of PC rpg's where you were able to play with couple of buttons, instead of typing in keyboard commands. But that is a little off topic.
Well, to be fair, I've argued elsewhere that I think Dragon's Quest is an interesting hybrid that latter evolved into the modern JRPG. It's certainly got a lot in common with Ultima by design - nonlinearity, a quest that's based around figuring out what you actually need to do, significant amounts of freedom from the very start of the game.
Later Dragon Quests - and this is going to be somewhat restricted by my recollection - started with a linear guided section that opened out after a certain point into a more freeform experience. I tended to call that first section the "world tour"... because it'd often take you to every place on the damn map!
And then very late on, the open-ended section shrunk more and more until the linear part of the game became the bulk of it. It's later games in that and other series that became something different from the more conventional PC line. I think Final Fantasy 3/6 is perhaps the last major example I can recall that had an impressive open-ended portion as well as the linear storyline section.
In short: I would argue that Dragon Quest has more in common with Ultima IV than it does with Final Fantasy XIII.
ichtyander
Member
Wow, I'm speechless. Sure as hell gonna keep my eye on this.
Sentenza
Member
Quite the understatement, as far as I'm concerned.
IF they can actually deliver a new UU that lives up to the standards of the old ones, I'm potentially more interested in this than any other possible gaming announcement in the next couple of years.
Lord_Balkan
Member
Well I do think they certainly diverged, it really seems that Dragon's Quest was a streamlined / consoled (not in a bad way) Ultima.
OmegaDL50
Member
First the release of Divinity: Original Sin, then the upcoming Pillars of Eternity and eventual release of Torment: Tides of Numenera.
Let see we have Baldur's Gate Spiritual Successor, a successor to Planescape, and now the possibility of a new Ultima Underworld.
Have we come full circle yet? What is missing to make the circle complete.
Let see we have Baldur's Gate Spiritual Successor, a successor to Planescape, and now the possibility of a new Ultima Underworld.
Have we come full circle yet? What is missing to make the circle complete.
I now have other reasons to be interested in this game.
nelsonroyale
Member
Definitely interested, though I would have preferred a new game from the mainline. Strange they chose ascension...there is already an Ultima Ascension...
FlyingSaucer
Banned
A renaissance of AD&D Gold Box games.
Lord_Balkan
Member
Yeah. I mean Deus Ex, System Shock 1/2, UU all have that metroidvania / zelda style RPG aspect where even though sometimes they lack actual stats, but are RPGs in the fact that there is progression through the tools you get. Interesting that System Shock felt like a 3D Metroid in that respect, then Metroid Prime really had a System Shock feel to it (especially with all the scans and feeling of loneliness).
I swear, you could write a book on game design just studying the Ultima series (including Underworlds) and the branching of their games.
Good to hear. I think Neurath has been wanting to revive the franchise for a while now.
It's funny that they would choose that subtitle, considering its connection to one of the most reviled Ultima games.
Straight from the horse's mouth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVMCaflcwSI&t=50m20s
It's funny that they would choose that subtitle, considering its connection to one of the most reviled Ultima games.
Straight from the horse's mouth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVMCaflcwSI&t=50m20s
You missed out a new Might and Magic, too.
I think there's two things missing.
One: the Westwood team behind the early Eye of the Beholders and Lands of Lore to make a new block-movement dungeon crawler. That said, Grimrock 2 might well fill that need nicely, but the first game wasn't *quite* the same feel as those two.
Two:
...who else?
mysteriousmage09
Member
Will maintain my hype until more is known. Exciting to hear though.
Yeah, the influence of Ultima Underworld is pretty huge. It has its own little branch in the FPS family tree that some GAFers worked on a while back.
It could be considered indirectly responsible for the Souls series, since those are descended from King's Field, which was a sort of stripped-down action-y version of Ultima Underworld.
Also, we partially owe the existence of Doom's game engine to John Carmack seeing an unfinished version of UU in 1990 and deciding he could write a faster texture mapper.
Why is Arx Fatalis greyed out? Awesome game.
Really excited by this news. The UU games, which hit when I was a teenager, really made a lasting impression on me. I had been a fan of RPGs beforehand, but these games took immersion to a new level.
I think it's interesting that the news doesn't mention if the Ultima brand will be attached to the new game. Not sure how I feel about a new Underworld if you don't play as the Avatar. I guess we'll see.
This really is a great time for old-school RPG fans!
I think it's interesting that the news doesn't mention if the Ultima brand will be attached to the new game. Not sure how I feel about a new Underworld if you don't play as the Avatar. I guess we'll see.
This really is a great time for old-school RPG fans!
Not sure. Probably just to denote that it's effectively a third UU made by a different developer in order to introduce Arkane to the tree..
Absolutely H U G E news to me. Here's me gushing about Underworld back in 2005 (might have been my 1st post on GAF, actually). UW was a real revolution.
Ascension, eh? Perhaps the game starts from the bottom and you need to ascend to surface, this time.
Yeah, I'm suspecting it's that it's an entirely different team of developers who were just following in the mold, similar to King's Field and Ultima Underworld. Though it sort of "marries into" the actual line via Dishonored having some Deus Ex staff.
Interview on GameSpot: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ne...t-to-mess-with-original-formula/1100-6420836/
GameSpot said:
KiTA
Member
Dragon Quest was specifically designed by Yuji Horii as a more accessible version of Ultima and Wizardry. He's quite open with that in interviews. He loved both of them and wanted to bring that style of gameplay in a more accessible format to Japan.
Hellshingu
Member
Is this real life? I honestly never thought I'd see the day that some of these games would ever see sequels/reboots by some of the same people who made them 20 years ago. Hopefully UA can properly be adapted to modern times and be what it should.
Lord_Balkan
Member
Which is why I've always been kind of confused at the term JRPG, since a lot of the characteristics people associate with it are present in western RPGs. Other than the simple definition of an RPG made in Japan.
Just browsing GAF a little before I continue playing Divinity: Original Sin and...
Ultima Underworld in the thread title... series... revived... Underworld Ascension. YES. YES. YES.
I could never have predicted how things would change given the steep decline of RPGs in the past couple of years.
INCLINE!
Ultima Underworld in the thread title... series... revived... Underworld Ascension. YES. YES. YES.
I could never have predicted how things would change given the steep decline of RPGs in the past couple of years.
INCLINE!
FlyingSaucer
Banned
Glad to know they have the rights.
Nice ! It's exactly what I have been looking for for years now, confirmation from the concerned party himself. Thanks a lot !
Codex should be erupting right now, could be fun to go take a look XD
Nice ! It's exactly what I have been looking for for years now, confirmation from the concerned party himself. Thanks a lot !
Codex should be erupting right now, could be fun to go take a look XD
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Questionable: UU itself was an expansion upon the first-person dungeon crawler "blobber" genre, already popularized by Dungeon Master and Might & Magic. I'm not actually sure how much King's Field gained from having free movement as opposed to tile-based movement, since that's the main innovation of UU.
Great news, of course, but they better make a strong impression, unlike the Areal devs.
OmegaDL50
Member
I'll be perfectly honest. I never played a mainline Ultima game, except Quest for the Avatar.I have the free copy of Ultima IV on GOG though if I wanted to replay it again.
My very first PC game purchase back in 1998 on my first computer was this nice collection
http://wasteland.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimate_RPG_Archives
Unfortunately they are all DOS based games and to play them today I need to resort to using Dosbox as a workaround.
I should probably just retire my discs and look for modern digital replacements on GOG, the discs are kind of worn too.
My very first PC game purchase back in 1998 on my first computer was this nice collection
http://wasteland.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimate_RPG_Archives
Unfortunately they are all DOS based games and to play them today I need to resort to using Dosbox as a workaround.
I should probably just retire my discs and look for modern digital replacements on GOG, the discs are kind of worn too.
Lord_Balkan
Member
Akalabeth and Ultima again say hello.
Free movement alone is kind of an understatement. The dungeon crawlers before were basically point and click games with combat. Which wasn't really something new. After Ultima Underworld came out, lots of people saw the potential and the execution of that potential.
Wizardry 9 would be nice.
The first King's Field? It gained fair amount. The player's position was pretty granular, and you could strafe, turn, and move forward/back in real time with a control scheme like Armored Core's, and attacks required a surprising amount of positioning and timing. I believe there were also a few "jumps" that you could access by running, also like UU.
They diverged a lot over the years. In the perspective of a lot of westerners, JRPGs didn't evolve much from that original template. For the most part they certainly didn't follow WRPGs into the Fallout and D&D games era.
I feel like there are two main reasons behind this (among others):
1) Japanese developers aren't really embarking on the same pursuit western PC developers did to create the "ultimate" video game world. They're not really trying to make fantasy worlds that feel like you're really there, but simply new games with rules. JRPG developers have simply taken that Ultima and Wizardry design as a game with rules and not as an attempt at something the hardware didn't allow in the 80's. That's why so many JRPGs still employ random and turn-based battles -- it's like each one is it's own tabletop game.
2) If you look at the chronology of cRPG releases in Japan, you'll find a massive gap from the early 90's to around 2006. The earliest JRPGs were heavily influenced by cRPGs like the early Ultima, Wizardry, and Might & Magic games. But after around Ultima VI, WRPGs pretty much disappeared in the Japanese market. The later games in the aforementioned franchises never reached Japan. That roughly coincides with the time JRPGs started to go their own way influenced by games like Final Fantasy VII and its emphasis on cinematic presentation. Japan pretty much missed all the later isometric cRPGs as well as the late 90's immersive sims. Fast forward to 2006 and 2007, and Oblivion is getting a huge reaction from Japanese developers. Yuji Horii admits Oblivion was a huge influence on Dragon Quest IX. Skyrim went on to garner even more conversation from JRPG developers.
Lord_Balkan
Member
Yeah it really is honestly fascinating. I just don't see JRPGs and WRPGs all that different at times, other than art style- but that is pretty superficial. The specific 'characteristics' of JRPGs aren't exactly exclusive to JRPGs is what I'm trying to get at.
Sentenza
Member
Really? I perceive them as entirely different genres most of the times and art style seems the most trivial distinction between them to me.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
When you look at the first Dragon Quest (I to IV), you can see pretty clearly how the Ultima formula evolved in Japan and increasingly developed narrative and aesthetics features imported from the manga culture.
It's kind of like with how Japanese animation/comics were more similar to Disney initially than they currently are. They have similar origin points, and there's times when they cross back over (Anachronox, King's Field) but otherwise they're mostly going down different roads and look very dissimilar now.
- Status