Ahaha, yes. That dampened my excitement for UC quite a bit.
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Uncharted 4: Sam Drake's Makeover, "Weird Changes."
- Thread starter mindsale
- Start date
Ahaha, yes. That dampened my excitement for UC quite a bit.
Hot Coldman
Banned
You know, I see this as a shift in focus more than anything - the final Uncharted 4 is clearly more focused on Nate's character, and his struggle with his old fortune hunter lifestyle. Sam is there simply to represent the "old Nate", and act as a catalyst for Nate to finally face his problems letting go of the past. Sam could really be anyone, him being Nate's brother just works to allow them to use the "twist" regarding Sam as a slap-in-the-face for Drake, to remind him of how that lifestyle is not healthy, without completely burying their relationship for good. Rafe and Naomi (I get the feeling a character similar to Naomi would have existed either way, but maybe not as prominently) simply exist as an opposing force - it's really all about Nate.
Amy's Uncharted 4 was clearly going to be more of a two-man story, granting at least as much of its story and themes to Nate's pissed-off brother/former accomplice/whoever as much as it did Nate. It almost seems like a reaction to Uncharted 3, a game with a large cast and a huge lack of focus; presenting this grey conflict between Nate and Todd Stashwick and honing in on that could have definitely been interesting.
The final Uncharted 4 reflects beautifully on the games that came before it, and I think it's incredibly successful as an end to the series because of that, but I imagine Amy's UC4 would have certainly been something fresh for the series too.
Amy's Uncharted 4 was clearly going to be more of a two-man story, granting at least as much of its story and themes to Nate's pissed-off brother/former accomplice/whoever as much as it did Nate. It almost seems like a reaction to Uncharted 3, a game with a large cast and a huge lack of focus; presenting this grey conflict between Nate and Todd Stashwick and honing in on that could have definitely been interesting.
The final Uncharted 4 reflects beautifully on the games that came before it, and I think it's incredibly successful as an end to the series because of that, but I imagine Amy's UC4 would have certainly been something fresh for the series too.
CrichtonKicks
Member
My vague sense is that the original UC4 wasn't necessarily intended to be the last game in the series (we didn't get the "A Thief's End" subtitle until after Hennig left). I think Druckman or Straley recently said that they only agreed to come onto the title if they could make it an ending to the series and I can see a lot of character and story restructuring occurring when that decision was made.
Got to say I love the voice of the old Sam, but as people have pointed out, his character motivation and the fact he would be a villain sound really soap-operish.
I'm absolutely happy with the plot and with the "new" Sam. I didn't even notice it was Troy Baker because a Gaffer said Sam sounded like George Contanza and I kept trying to "hear" it the whole damn game. He doesn't.
I'm absolutely happy with the plot and with the "new" Sam. I didn't even notice it was Troy Baker because a Gaffer said Sam sounded like George Contanza and I kept trying to "hear" it the whole damn game. He doesn't.
He was almost certainly Rafe.
NightShift
Member
I'm not going to say we got the better story out of the two but the one we got sounds so much more appealing. Nolan North and Troy Baker as brothers on good terms was perfect and fit the tone of the series unlike what the teaser suggested. I don't know how they would have worked in a darker personal story but I would be interested to see what they had.
aussiedude08
Member
It would be great if Amy or Naughty dog said what Amy's version was going to be like.
I thought that after Todd said he was playing the Sam character that it was basically what Rafe became, but not sure if he would of still been Nate's brother.
If it was Rafe that was shot and assumed dead, then spent 15 years in Jail it would make perfect sense the tone of the announcement toward Nate.
In the final game the Sam character is great because it gave you more knowledge about Nate as a kid and that Nate misses the excitement but doesnt need to do this anymore since its never worth it.
I thought that after Todd said he was playing the Sam character that it was basically what Rafe became, but not sure if he would of still been Nate's brother.
If it was Rafe that was shot and assumed dead, then spent 15 years in Jail it would make perfect sense the tone of the announcement toward Nate.
In the final game the Sam character is great because it gave you more knowledge about Nate as a kid and that Nate misses the excitement but doesnt need to do this anymore since its never worth it.
Sam Drake was by far the weakest aspect of UC4 for me. His inclusion, and what they did with him completely betrayed Drake's characterization that was established in UC3 and made for a significantly less interesting character.
UC4 is mechanically the best, sure but in the story department it suffers a lot.
UC4 is mechanically the best, sure but in the story department it suffers a lot.
Sam's existence in the game really makes it feel like the previous games took place in a (slightly) different timeline. Some people say that they did a good job of explaining why Sam is absent from the previous games. I think they explained something that is completely implausible.
At least in this regard, the original idea might've worked better.
At least in this regard, the original idea might've worked better.
Dreadnought
Member
You guys are saying Sam couldn't have been the antag because it would have been cliche but the entire Uncharted series is already cliche as hell. It's the characters that make it good.
Smooth Operator
Member
darkwing-buck
Member
The Sam we got instead was great.
DJ Lushious
Member
I don't know if anyone's responded to this yet, but Amy Hennig gets an ending credit dedicated solely to her, that was rather, in my opinion, touching, respectful, and heartfelt. And it's a standing credit card. I was very happy to see it. Uncharted would not be what it is today without Amy and I know I'll never forget that.
Respectfully disagree, this Uncharted dropped the ball with characterization, motives and plot beats.
I'm sure he's nice, although I liked the UC4 OST a bit better than his previous work.
I don't think it makes any sense for an honestly low-tier actor like Tudyk or someone that barely gets any work like Edmoson to give up a high profile job in this industry. He's saying that for his benefit. He and Stashwick were cut because Druckmann changed the story and wanted to work with other people, particularly Troy Baker, obviously, based on their previous collaboration.
BalishChannel
Banned
The only problem I have with Troy Baker's performance as Sam is that he rarely slips into an almost Brooklyn-sounding accent for no reason at all.
Oppo
Member
Pulp is not necessarily cliche though. it goes back to the style of Tin Tin and early globetrotting adventure stories.
I think "Dark Drake" would have been a bit too straight though. "Drakes greatest enemy is HIMSELF sorta. " what they did with it was more sophisticated.
Raph felt like a version of Jake G's char from Nightcrawler to me. Although he was kinda one note tbf.
I'll swim against the tide and say I would have enjoyed that story more - the one we got did nothing for me.
If Sam had been the antagonist, we would have had an actual meaningful 'villain' and the inevitable peace they make at the end of the story when things are at their worst would have been emotionally cathartic.
What we got inspired no emotions in me at all, and Sam was a dull, boring character that I didn't enjoy spending the majority of the game with.
If Sam had been the antagonist, we would have had an actual meaningful 'villain' and the inevitable peace they make at the end of the story when things are at their worst would have been emotionally cathartic.
What we got inspired no emotions in me at all, and Sam was a dull, boring character that I didn't enjoy spending the majority of the game with.
CrichtonKicks
Member
Tudyk works regularly and almost certainly gets a better rate for guest appearances in TV than he would for VA/performance capture in a game. He almost certainly still got paid for his work on UC4 as well even if it wasn't used.
Stashwick also gets good work including being a regular on several TV shows. Further he is evidently co-writing the Star Wars game with Hennig so there is obviously an additional element to their relationship that would have made it super-awkward to continue on with UC4.
Edmonson is the only one of the group that externally seems hard up for work but he may have other revenue streams that aren't obvious.
How so? Assuming he was always the brother I think that retcon was always going be problematic no matter what Sam's motivations were.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I'd like to hear impressions from those who had left the project.
Silent Hill
Banned
Yeah me too. What was the reason for her leaving?
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Whatever they changed worked.
If it was originally written by the people who wrote Uncharted 3 then I have every confidence that what we got was the better version of the two games.
If it was originally written by the people who wrote Uncharted 3 then I have every confidence that what we got was the better version of the two games.
Personally much prefer the current story we got compared to what could have been. As someone who has an older brother, who is currently working overseas, I don't get to see him that often, maybe once a year. For me this game felt a lot more personal because of that brotherly connection they both have. Also the theme of family and what are you willing to do for them, I feel resonates a lot more with people compared to the brother out for vengeance storyline, that was originally proposed.
aggienader
Member
This is even more interesting because of the fact that the game turned out to be quite good anyway.
Ascenion
Member
I'm honestly inclined to think Hennig's plot was better. I don't think Druckmann changed anything up until the point
. Sam seems like Flynn basically, just playing a longer game with the bonus of a guilt trip worthy of song. I said it before, I believe part of his original character is present because Sam never feels genuine. I think Druckmann screwed up. He should've rewritten the entire thing because the story beats just feel off for me the whole thing does. I don't hate Sam I just think the one we have would've been inferior to the one Hennig wrote.
Rafe puts Sam's lie out there
#1 defender
Member
I'd love to read a meaty post-mortem on the whole production. Paging Jason Schreier.
Well, the trailer implies that Drake was lying about his past and hiding the fact that he basically left Sam for dead. It makes more sense than him trying to bury sad memories.
Fancy Clown
Member
4 has the best story, but the aspects where it expands on the stuff hinted at in 3 RE his backstory was definitely a misstep.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Wow, I didn't remember that old teaser. What a trip back.
It kind of seems like they may have turned the original Sam into Rafe and then created a similar-but-different person to be Sam.
It all worked out in the end anyways.
It kind of seems like they may have turned the original Sam into Rafe and then created a similar-but-different person to be Sam.
It all worked out in the end anyways.
TimeEffect
Member
Rafe is an awesome villain. So much better than Lazaravich and boring Marlowe
I love that he's some rich brat who is incredibly competitive and jealous. Seeing him work with Nate and then become his enemy was different and fun.
Saint of Killers
Member
I'd totally forgotten about that teaser trailer.
I prefer the direction they took. Sam and Nate would probably have made up in the older version anyway, but the new take on the Sam's character allowed for the writers to explore more interesting facets of Nate and Co's relationships.
I prefer the direction they took. Sam and Nate would probably have made up in the older version anyway, but the new take on the Sam's character allowed for the writers to explore more interesting facets of Nate and Co's relationships.
DannyDanger
Member
i enjoyed this story more than all his previous adventures, thats all that matters, imho
Digital-Hero
Member
The game turned out great. The story was the best one yet. What a great adventure miss my friends already. The best part, I can turn it back on. lol
Hidden One
Member
Kinda wish Sam woulda stayed evil
What you're describing is Uncharted 3. Everyone begs Nate to stop and he keeps going, and we go on an incredible character journey as he finds the demons that made him do that and makes his piece with it.
Sam in Uncharted 4 goes through a weaker version of that same journey, but Sam is a side character anyway. What's the point?
Raven117
Member
Me too. Though UC4's story and ending delivered...it was merely well executed. I didn't think it was original at all.
Certainly not near the insanely potent "Okay" from the last of us.
"boring Marlowe" confronts Nate about his past and is part of the biggest growth his character went through in the series. Rafe is...
jealous of him. He adds absolutely nothing to Drake's character. Nadine is even worse, she does nothing of significance in the entire game and literally walks out on it.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Wow this was a very awesome read. Thanks!
Edit: And wow, this is my first time seeing (hearing) that teaser trailer. Interesting indeed, but I'm happy we have the one in the final game. It would have just turned into a typical Uncharted boss and chase with the evil Sam.
ChasingComets
Member
She did get a special thanks in there for her 'contributions to the franchise', Which felt to me like their acknowledgement for everything she did for uncharted, the foundations of this story included. Whether they parted on bad terms or not, at least that was recognized.
Disagree, I feel like Drake doesn't really go anywhere he hadn't before, I also feel that the stuff revealed with Sam really makes what was implied before much less interesting for the character.
I also think Rafe' is a weaker villain than Marlow.
Best last chapter in an Uncharted though. I'm still letting a lot of it digest but I'm disappointed with the overall experience.
Digital-Hero
Member
It made me more grounded. Yes. "Betrayed" is very overboard.
UC3 was garbage along with all hallucination scenes that went along with it. That was a very bad Uncharted game with high production values.
We don't even know how much of the story was hers. You're making some big assumptions.
CrichtonKicks
Member
I don't think that's the case at all though maybe they could have pulled it off. At first blush I would think that Drake truly leaving Sam for dead would be a really rough indictment of his character.
I expect that the circumstances behind Sam's "death" were always kind of similar it's just how Sam internalized things over the next 15 years that changed.
I did appreciate the dedication. I'm just saying that it seems like even if the game was a Page One rewrite, it's obvious that a lot of the core story still carried forward.
PuppetMaster
Member
Glad they did not try to make the game in that trailer.
PuppetMaster
Member
I had to look up who Marlowe was. That is how unmemorable that villan was to me.
Rafe was awesome. And his performance was outstanding.
Rafe was awesome. And his performance was outstanding.
Ordinaryundone
Member
That's really the direction I was expecting the story to go. Both of them wanted to be treasure hunters but Sam got stuck in prison while Drake went on to have this fabulous, successful adventuring life. And now that Sam is out Nate decides he's above it all? It would have been so easy for him to call Drake out on it. Of course he'd be "done", he already got his fun, but what's left for Sam? It would have mirrored Rafe's motivation as well, being jealous of Drake's success because money can't replace talent.
There are still some shades of this left in there but it's not nearly as pronounced in the final game, and It's spun to be much more of Sam wanting to do it to prove something to himself rather than get one over on his brother.
CrichtonKicks
Member
Well I don't know if the concept was Hennig's versus Josh Scherr or another writer at ND, true. I'm just saying that the initial teaser when Hennig was attached shows Sam, the 15 years later timeline, Henry Avery, and Libertalia. If this was under the WGA then all of that would almost certainly be enough for a Story By credit and maybe even a screenplay credit.
It's not WGA though so it's all moot but I just think it's interesting. As games get more cinematic then authorship on these aspects may start to align more with how Hollywood handles it.