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[Madness]

lol

Garbage-ass plotline. Definitely the worst the show has ever had. Blows my mind every time I see someone defending this crap.

Supposedly now reading the leaked scripts there was going to be a scene where Arya and Bran get into it about him not helping more, and he goes House Stark doesn't matter. I think having 7 episodes is the reason for it all. Could have been fleshed out much better.

Next season is 6 episodes. Get ready for barely any character development or world building and nonstop Viserion killing everyone and castles being destroyed etc.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Did anyone else find the whole Wight unboxing by The Hound unintentionally funny? There was just something about him trudging out with this massive fucking crate on his back and awkwardly kneeling down to get it off, the way he has to switch sides to get the metal bars out and his skittish little peak over the top before kicking it over.

And what happened to the donkey & cart? He left it at the top of the path leading into the pit with the Lannister soldier, but when he leaves the pit to fetch it he goes down the stairs in the middle and comes back up carrying the crate. Why make so much effort for himself when he could have just pulled it in on the cart the way everyone else came? Not dramatic enough?

And if the chain in the wight was 6-inches longer, one war would have ended.

 

[GrooveCommand]

I have a couple speculations that I think either are telegraphed or might be interesting.

1. The Night King isn't just going to go into a straight battle with the north. He has a dragon and is going to attack King's Landing first with it. This will happen after the golden company has arrived and basically end the Lannister's. Cersei will be turned into a white walker (The Night Queen?) and this new portion of the dead army will march north to pin and surround Jon and Dany's armies. (This is the last big Shock in the show)

2. Dany will not fight in the final battle due to being too pregnant. If they can screw with the time some she might be giving birth during the final battle (as a tropy juxtaposition). Jon will ride one of the dragons (having learned of his heritage) into battle.

3. Jon will use his dragon to fight and distract the night king as the second dragon lays waste to the undead army. This will work great until one of the giants kills the second dragon (somehow).

4. Bronn will use a scorpion with a dragon glass bolt to attempt to take down the night kings dragon. He will miss and hit Jon's dragon. It will not kill it but will bring it down and force Jon off of it.

5. The Night King will land in front of Jon atop Viserion. Jon will turn to face him only to see the frost dragon about to breath fire on him. There will be a dramatic slow scene where you see Jon's despair, possibly Dany is watching from far away, sad music plays, blah, blah, blah. Viserion roasts Jon with his frost laser beam thing. Everyone thinks its the end...but wait, could it be?!?! Jon, the song of ice and fire, literally walks out of frost fire, armor partially burnt away and beheads Viserion. The Night King, still emotionless, dismounts and fights Jon. Jon wins because he is a badass.

6. The hound will kill the mountain by using a fire blade, Jaime will kill Night Queen Cersei, Arya will find some way to die or be completely useless, Bron will die saving someone, Brienne will fuck the wildling guy before he or both die in the final battle, bran is going to watch things, Sansa is going to continue to do nothing, and Theon is going to kill Euron after he finds out his sister is dead. Note: Not all of these happen in the final battle.

I've gotta hand it to you these are some decent predictions

 

[TheXbox]

?

I mean if anything, the last two seasons gave us proof that the major events of the show will be the same as the books; D&D stated Shireen's burning and "hold the door" were both events from the books. And of course, their previous statement that GRRM sat down and explained the endpoints for all the major characters and events. The show is building to the same ending as the books, maybe just a bit more barebones and with less nuance.

I highly doubt that Littlefinger will die much differently in the books, Sansa for sure will pass the sentence there too. Will there be a dumb contrived sister-drama plot in the books? Highly unlikely. But it's safe to assume every major character, including Viserion, will die the same way in the books. If you believe otherwise you are probably in denial.

I can't wrap my head around how the Shireen thing could ever happen in the books. Not just because Stannis is a different character who insists on placing his daughter on the Iron Throne should he fail, but because the Battle of Ice is already on. Stannis is at Winterfell, and Shireen is hundreds of miles away.

Theon, Asha, and Mance Raydar (Mance!) are the key players who will make or break Stannis' campaign. The Karstarks as well - they're just waiting on a word from Roose Bolton to turn around and stab Stannis in the back.

I suppose Selyse is capable of immolating her daughter, but since Jon's death everything at the Wall is a big question mark. Good crows, bad crows, wildlings, Queensmen, the whole thing's a mess. And anyway, that's not really in line with what the showrunners have said, so Selyse may be a non-factor.

 

[Faddy]

What's to stop GRRM deliberately steering away from where the show went now that its' aired and throw that outline he gave them into the bin when it comes to the books? It's not like the story turned out exactly like the pitch letter he gave to the publishers.

That the books deal in heavy foreshadowing is a pretty big problem. Like the demise of Littlefinger is foreshadowed in the books, he will die at Winterfell at Sansa's command.

 

[Ocarina_117]

Probably as long as you engage with a discussion thread where the source material isn't complete yet - their speculation is worth no less than yours when you have literally no factual basis to counter

You sound petulant

Didn't GRRM tell Taylor something along the lines of "This was always about Dany and Jon getting together"?

Yet you still have people in this thread swearing it's the ultimate fan service

Point is these conversations are pointless because they are based entirely on speculation, regardless of how well you think you know how or what GRRM writes

He was told that their story lines will converge. That doesn't mean getting together. Jon is dead right now and being brought back to life has different implications in book than show.

Yeah the defence of the show being 'BUT GRRM TOLD THEM' is annoying when evidence staying otherwise is constantly posted. In both threads.

But, to D&D's credit, they are giving us an ending to the series - regardless to the quality of it. I'm excited for the last GRRM surprise they have for us.

 

[KahooTs]

Probably as long as you engage with a discussion thread where the source material isn't complete yet - their speculation is worth no less than yours when you have literally no factual basis to counter

Except you know GRRM outright saying they are separate stories now to the point the show isn't capable of spoiling the books.

That the books deal in heavy foreshadowing is a pretty big problem. Like the demise of Littlefinger is foreshadowed in the books, he will die at Winterfell at Sansa's command.

He's not dying in Winterfell, Sansa ruling Winterfell is entirely show fan service. It is what all the Sansa fans envisage, Sansa becoming an independent master player of the game of thrones in the north without ever causing collateral damage, never meeting Tyrion again and riding unicorns over rainbows.

 

[duckroll]

What's to stop GRRM deliberately steering away from where the show went now that its' aired and throw that outline he gave them into the bin when it comes to the books? It's not like the story turned out exactly like the pitch letter he gave to the publishers.

The same thing that's stopping him from ever releasing another book in the series - Writer's Block.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

There's also no way Jon comes back in the books with zero consequences/changes to his personality. The show and books are on completely different trajectories.

 

[Rixxan]

Except you know GRRM outright saying they are separate stories now to the point the show isn't capable of spoiling the books.
He's not dying in Winterfell, Sansa ruling Winterfell is entirely show fan service. It is what all the Sansa fans envisage, Sansa becoming an independent master player of the game of thrones in the north without ever causing collateral damage, never meeting Tyrion again and riding unicorns over rainbows.

"Yes, some huge plot developments in Winds of Winter (and the final book, A Dream of Spring) will get spoiled on television before we get to see them play out in the books"

That's from the gizmodo article when grrm announced TWOW isn't coming out this year

Again, this conversation is so fucking presumptuous regardless of which side you're taking

None of us know, end of story

 

[ZOONAMI]

The same thing that's stopping him from ever releasing another book in the series - Writer's Block.

I mean, I don't know that it's actually writer's block. I'd say we're basically dealing with an old man who has essentially decided to retire but isn't willing to tell all his fans he doesn't really give a fuck anymore.

 

[neoemonk]

I know we give them shit for making the costumes all black and it makes sense sorta because winter so the colors are muted and some characters like cersei were in mourning but holy shit when I googled S7 GOT costumes it was actually laughable how apparent it is



no idea what hodor is doing there tho

Pretty obvious imo

Spoiler

Hodor

 

[tmdorsey]

There's also no way Jon comes back in the books with zero consequences/changes to his personality. The show and books are on completely different trajectories.

We've been over this like 44 times. It is entirely possible for Jon to come back without major changes to his personality for the simple fact that it's a given that he's gonna warg into Ghost until Melisandrè gets his body ready for resurrection. His "death" is just to get him out of his Night's Watch oath.

One reunion these last few posts reminded me of that I can't wait to see next season is Sansa and Tyrion.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Except you know GRRM outright saying they are separate stories now to the point the show isn't capable of spoiling the books.
He's not dying in Winterfell, Sansa ruling Winterfell is entirely show fan service. It is what all the Sansa fans envisage, Sansa becoming an independent master player of the game of thrones in the north without ever causing collateral damage, never meeting Tyrion again and riding unicorns over rainbows.

Literally what are you talking about?

What is Sansa going to do in the books if she never ends up ruling Winterfell? Do you not clearly see that is where her plot is going in the books?

I swear, some of y'all will be in for a rude awakening if the next book ever comes out. Lol

 

[Massa]

I can't wrap my head around how the Shireen thing could ever happen in the books. Not just because Stannis is a different character who insists on placing his daughter on the Iron Throne should he fail, but because the Battle of Ice is already on. Stannis is at Winterfell, and Shireen is hundreds of miles away.

Stannis wanting to burn an innocent kid to achieve what he thinks is right is straight from the books. If Davos trusted Stannis as much as some of his fans Edric would've been toast.

The fact that he insists Shireen is placed on the throne will only make his turning to Melisandre's magic more tragic when it fails. I'm sure it will be a much more powerful moment in the books than it was on the show when GRRM figures out how to write it.

 

[ResidentWeevil13]

?

I mean if anything, the last two seasons gave us proof that the major events of the show will be the same as the books; D&D stated Shireen's burning and "hold the door" were both events from the books. And of course, their previous statement that GRRM sat down and explained the endpoints for all the major characters and events. The show is building to the same ending as the books, maybe just a bit more barebones and with less nuance.

I highly doubt that Littlefinger will die much differently in the books, Sansa for sure will pass the sentence there too. Will there be a dumb contrived sister-drama plot in the books? Highly unlikely. But it's safe to assume every major character, including Viserion, will die the same way in the books. If you believe otherwise you are probably in denial.

Hold the door is a main event? News to me.

Also a story is the journey not the destination. Shireen may burn, but will Stannis do it? Will Mel do it to resurrect Jon Snow ("Wake the dragon from stone"), or will Selyse do it because she thinks Stannis is in trouble? Maybe Stannis will do it, but maybe it will be in a last ditch effort against the white walkers.

To say any of the above would be like the shows versions of events would be a flat out lie. It's not a question of 'nuance' or the story being 'barebones'. It's a question of all the events leading up to the 'big event' being different. It's a question of a character’s actions and motivations being different. And those are the things that make a story. Not the events themselves, but the build up to those events and the reason those events happen.

Sansa may be LF's downfall ("Slay a giant in a castle of snow"), but you and I both know it won't look anything like what happened in the show. Same with the zombie dragon.

Add to all this the huge chunks of plot missing from the show; Dorne, Iron Islands, fAegon, Stoneheart, etc. Winds of Winter is going to be a far cry from the TV Show in so many ways. I’d bet good money on it. I’d bet my neogaf avatar on it if you’d like.

In the end, GRRM told D&D the broad strokes of the ending when the show began seven years ago, and he's become less and less involved with the show. Seven years is a long time, and we've seen how his initial outline for the books went completely out the window. Like GRRM says, he is a gardener not an architect. He goes where the characters and events logically lead him. In a blog post in the past year, he said he come up with a big new twist for a character he hadn’t even entertained before.

When people smugly comment about how the books are mostly going to be the same as the show, and us book readers are just in denial, I really just have to laugh. Will Cersei blow up all of her political rivals (Tyrells And Kevan) in the sept and become the queen? I doubt it. Will Jon Snow fight in a battle against Ramsey called the Battle of the Bastards, and almost lose, but be saved by Sansa and the Vale? I honestly don’t think so. Will Arya kill the entire male line of House Frey? Again, I doubt it. Will Sansa be married to and get raped by Ramsey? Don’t think so.

 

[KahooTs]

"Yes, some huge plot developments in Winds of Winter (and the final book, A Dream of Spring) will get spoiled on television before we get to see them play out in the books"

That's from the gizmodo article when grrm announced TWOW isn't coming out this year

Again, this conversation is so fucking presumptuous regardless of which side you're taking

None of us know, end of story

Oh, a quote from gizmodo. Well that settles it. Under the heading of the show can't really spoil the books. He's said even hold the door from last season is very different in the books.

Literally what are you talking about?

What is Sansa going to do in the books if she never ends up ruling Winterfell? Do you not clearly see that is where her plot is going in the books?

I swear, some of y'all will be in for a rude awakening if the next book ever comes out. Lol

Gee, what could the character poised to become the master player in the game of thrones do, if not return to the north where she has no affinity with any character and rule Winterfell. I dunno, it is so hard to see.

Tell me again how Viserion is going to die in the books.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

My guess is that once trust issues are resolved, Jamie will become battle commander, and lead the troops against the undead.

Hopefully he'll become a double kingslayer and kill the Night King.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I'll just pretend in my head that what Bran's actor said didn't happen. Sansa and Arya were playing Littlefinger the whole time. Any other explanation just ruins both of their characters.

You have to remember that directors film scenes in case they want to go a different route in production. D&D clearly decided that what flowed better was that they played Littlefinger, and not that Bran told them.

I think cutting the scene was the right thing to do. These productions move at breathneck speed and multiple scenes from different episodes filming at once. Better to have footage, than not if they change their mind.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

I never said anything other than the broad strokes will be the same. Of course, a story is about the journey and not the destination. The books will be very different because of that. It's just frustrating to see people doubting things like un-Viserion, Sansa ruling Winterfell, Shireen burning, Dany+Jon, when not only are those plot points hinted at in the books, they have either been hinted at by GRRM or told straight to D&D. Next season is only going to spoil more as the show reaches the majority of information on what D&D were told.

 

[Rixxan]

Oh, a quote from gizmodo. Well that settles it. Under the heading of the show can't really spoil the books. He's said even hold the door from last season is very different in the books.
Gee, what could the character poised to become the master player in the game of thrones do, if not return to the north where she has no affinity with any character and rule Winterfell. I dunno, it is so hard to see.

Tell me again how Viserion is going to die in the books.

Hold the door is vastly different in the books, yet Hodor/hold the door is something that happens in the books - but it happening first in the show isn't, at least, a character moment spoiler?

The rest of your post is sarcastically describing how something that could easily happen in the books, won't

Stop being an asshole

 

[jett]

I know we give them shit for making the costumes all black and it makes sense sorta because winter so the colors are muted and some characters like cersei were in mourning but holy shit when I googled S7 GOT costumes it was actually laughable how apparent it is



no idea what hodor is doing there tho

Is there a reason they have all their mouths open

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Is there a reason they have all their mouths open

It's from that HBO spot where they have characters doing the "ahhhhh" sound from the HBO Original Series intro.

 

[KahooTs]

I never said anything other than the broad strokes will be the same. Of course, a story is about the journey and not the destination. The books will be very different because of that. It's just frustrating to see people doubting things like un-Viserion, Sansa ruling Winterfell, Shireen burning, Dany+Jon, when not only are those plot points hinted at in the books, they have either been hinted at by GRRM or told straight to D&D. Next season is only going to spoil more as the show reaches the majority of information on what D&D were told.

Stannis burning Shireen is the only thing confirmed and that was a long held fan theory deeply rooted in the books. Sansa will not rule Winterfell, her arc is playing her way to queen on the IT, Jon and Dany will not be a love story and if unViserion happens its not happening on the other side of the wall, Tyrion has a lot of story to go on Viserion and it won't be the big bad, the ice dragon is not a wighted dragon but an Other dragon, we are given its description.

 

[Turin]

I never said anything other than the broad strokes will be the same. Of course, a story is about the journey and not the destination. The books will be very different because of that. It's just frustrating to see people doubting things like un-Viserion, Sansa ruling Winterfell, Shireen burning, Dany+Jon, when not only are those plot points hinted at in the books, they have either been hinted at by GRRM or told straight to D&D. Next season is only going to spoil more as the show reaches the majority of information on what D&D were told.

I'm not really doubting Dany+Jon(not 100% convinced I suppose). I just hate it, personally.

One thing I am skeptical of is Jon becoming KotN. Mainly because it's really not necessary to his story and there's quite a few hurdles to get over for that to even happen organically. I could be wrong but it just seemed like something D&D thought would be cool to do.

 

[TheXbox]

Stannis wanting to burn an innocent kid to achieve what he thinks is right is straight from the books. If Davos trusted Stannis as much as some of his fans Edric would've been toast.

The fact that he insists Shireen is placed on the throne will only make his turning to Melisandre's magic more tragic when it fails. I'm sure it will be a much more powerful moment in the books than it was on the show when GRRM figures out how to write it.

Let's set aside Stannis's moral duplicity for a second. The logistics of this scenario - Stannis sacrificing his daughter to take Winterfell - don't work. He can't kill someone who isn't there.

Stannis is either going to take Winterfell or die in the attempt before Shireen ever reachs him (assuming she leaves the Wall, which she has not). The Boltons and their bannermen have opened the gates of Winterfell and they're pouring out. The Karstarks are waiting to turn on Stannis. There's going to be a fight, and there's no time for any child-burning before it resolves.

Moreover, if king's blood is what Stannis needs, Theon and Asha are right there. TWOW spoiler:

Spoiler

He's already debating whether or not to execute Theon in the early chapters of TWOW.

Melisandre, I should add, is also indisposed. She'll probably be busy resurrecting Jon Snow at the Wall while Stannis is being flayed by Ramsay Bolton.

edit: The only way this thing happens is if Stannis loses and flees to the Wall. There, pursued by Roose Bolton, in an act of cowardice and desperation, he burns his daughter to save his own life. It doesn't fit with his character (he'd sooner smuggle Shireen to safety so she might try and take the throne later) but that at least works.

 

[jett]

Probably as long as you engage with a discussion thread where the source material isn't complete yet - their speculation is worth no less than yours when you have literally no factual basis to counter

You sound petulant

Didn't GRRM tell Taylor something along the lines of "This was always about Dany and Jon getting together"?

Yet you still have people in this thread swearing it's the ultimate fan service

Point is these conversations are pointless because they are based entirely on speculation, regardless of how well you think you know how or what GRRM writes

What?
I do have facts on my side to counter the idea that the books will magically transform themselves to be just like the show. Facts such as the actual source material that directly contravenes events in the show. I already mentioned a few. It's nonsense.

For me the "ultimate fan service" was the seven bastards shit. Just completely shameless.

It's from that HBO spot where they have characters doing the "ahhhhh" sound from the HBO Original Series intro.

I see.

 

[KahooTs]

Let's set aside Stannis's moral duplicity for a second. The logistics of this scenario - Stannis sacrificing his daughter to take Winterfell - don't work. He can't kill someone who isn't there.

It's out there, they said GRRM told them and nothing has come out to contradict them, even when there were blow ups. It could be as simple as Stannis receiving a raven from the wall, Jon is dead and shit has hit the fan so he rushes back to sort it out.

I'm not really doubting Dany+Jon(not 100% convinced I suppose). I just hate it, personally.

One thing I am skeptical of is Jon becoming KotN. Mainly because it's really not necessary to his story and there's quite a few hurdles to get over for that to even happen organically. I could be wrong but it just seemed like something D&D thought would be cool to do.

There's a will floating out there naming Jon KITN, you don't think he did that for a reason? Robb naming himself KITN hinged on one of the biggest plot holes in the book, that Stannis without good reason or any explanation delayed declaring. It had to happen that way so they could declare Robb KITN before Stannis declared, or Robb would have just declared for Stannis. It is all to an end, Jon.

 

[demosthenes]

Hopefully he'll become a double kingslayer and kill the Night King.

He'll look back at tyrion finally accepting the name kingslayer by saying "I'm a kingslayer" before stabbing the night king with an obsidian dagger and dying due to the collapse of the floor beneath them.

Edit: stupid auto correct

 

[Rixxan]

What?
I do have facts on my side to counter the idea that the books will magically transform themselves to be just like the show. Facts such as the actual source material that directly contravenes events in the show. I already mentioned a few. It's nonsense.

For me the "ultimate fan service" was the seven bastards shit. Just completely shameless.

My point wasn't arguing against the obvious fact that the show and the books will vary - as you said there are (seemingly) important characters that exist in the books and not the show

It was arguing against this threads willingness to reply with disdain to a reasonable opinion that many main character deaths will be similar in show and book

Hodor is an example that is all but confirmed to be occurring in a same/similar fashion

My main point again, and I don't see how it's even arguable, is that no one in this thread knows how most of our main characters will die

 

[Turin]

It's out there, they said GRRM told them and nothing has come out to contradict them, even when there were blow ups. It could be as simple as Stannis receiving a raven from the wall, Jon is dead and shit has hit the fan so he rushes back to sort it out.

There's a will floating out there naming Jon KITN, you don't think he did that for a reason? Robb naming himself KITN hinged on one of the biggest plot holes in the book, that Stannis without good reason or any explanation delayed declaring. It had to happen that way so they could declare Robb KITN before Stannis declared, or Robb would have just declared for Stannis. It is all to an end, Jon.

Bah. I forgot about that damn will. lol

 

[Rentahamster]

Is there a reason they have all their mouths open

They think they're in a CAD comic.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I mean if anything, the last two seasons gave us proof that the major events of the show will be the same as the books

WEISS: There were some details that were added later — but pretty much the actual endgame, the main climactic moments, we had in mind then. We had ninety percent of this crucial chunk of the story for the final season, and we were mainly talking to George to see how our notion of where things ended up jibed with his notion.

90% of what we're seeing is D&D's vision.

I'm not sure why anyone would try to justify what's going in the show (good or bad) by pointing to unpublished books. This is D&D's story and it has been since season 2.

 

[TheXbox]

It's out there, they said GRRM told them and nothing has come out to contradict them, even when there were blow ups. It could be as simple as Stannis receiving a raven from the wall, Jon is dead and shit has hit the fan so he rushes back to sort it out.

I wonder when George told them. They started planning the show back in, what, 2007? Long before ADWD was published. I can't see Stannis abandoning the siege unless he's going back to save Shireen. He doesn't care about Jon Snow, even less so once any hope of naturalizing him is lost.

I'm not gonna say it won't happen. The kid is toast. All I'm saying is that the circumstances surrounding her death will have to be radically different. Winterfell can't be the impetus.

 

[cubicle47b]

I'm not sure why we have to be salty to make fun of D&D. There's a lot of bad writing on the show. That doesn't mean we don't enjoy it.

 

[jfkgoblue]

I can't wrap my head around how the Shireen thing could ever happen in the books. Not just because Stannis is a different character who insists on placing his daughter on the Iron Throne should he fail, but because the Battle of Ice is already on. Stannis is at Winterfell, and Shireen is hundreds of miles away.

Theon, Asha, and Mance Raydar (Mance!) are the key players who will make or break Stannis' campaign. The Karstarks as well - they're just waiting on a word from Roose Bolton to turn around and stab Stannis in the back.

I suppose Selyse is capable of immolating her daughter, but since Jon's death everything at the Wall is a big question mark. Good crows, bad crows, wildlings, Queensmen, the whole thing's a mess. And anyway, that's not really in line with what the showrunners have said, so Selyse may be a non-factor.

Working theory is that Mel uses her to resurrect Jon.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Working theory is that Mel uses her to resurrect Jon.

I always figured Lady Stoneheart would give Jon her life after dealing with the Freys. She does have Robb's crown and knows about the KitN will.

 

[jfkgoblue]

I always figured Lady Stoneheart would give Jon her life after dealing with the Freys. She does have Robb's crown and knows about the KitN will.

LSH is an awfully long way away from an already dead Jon.

 

[WaffleTaco]

?

I mean if anything, the last two seasons gave us proof that the major events of the show will be the same as the books; D&D stated Shireen's burning and "hold the door" were both events from the books. And of course, their previous statement that GRRM sat down and explained the endpoints for all the major characters and events. The show is building to the same ending as the books, maybe just a bit more barebones and with less nuance.

I highly doubt that Littlefinger will die much differently in the books, Sansa for sure will pass the sentence there too. Will there be a dumb contrived sister-drama plot in the books? Highly unlikely. But it's safe to assume every major character, including Viserion, will die the same way in the books. If you believe otherwise you are probably in denial.

This is ridiculous. There are so many examples I don't even know where to start.

I never said anything other than the broad strokes will be the same. Of course, a story is about the journey and not the destination. The books will be very different because of that. It's just frustrating to see people doubting things like un-Viserion, Sansa ruling Winterfell, Shireen burning, Dany+Jon, when not only are those plot points hinted at in the books, they have either been hinted at by GRRM or told straight to D&D. Next season is only going to spoil more as the show reaches the majority of information on what D&D were told.

You think Cersei is still going to be alive by the end-game and in charge of Kings Landing? You say the broad strokes are going to be the same. How can that happen when the entire Kings Landing plot will be different?

 

[Gigglepoo]

LSH is an awfully long way away from an already dead Jon.

Won't matter if someone sticks his body in one of those frozen cells.

 

[jfkgoblue]

Won't matter if someone sticks his body in one of those frozen cells.

They won't do that, they will try an burn it, but Mel stops them IMO.

 

[ResidentWeevil13]

I never said anything other than the broad strokes will be the same. Of course, a story is about the journey and not the destination. The books will be very different because of that. It's just frustrating to see people doubting things like un-Viserion, Sansa ruling Winterfell, Shireen burning, Dany+Jon, when not only are those plot points hinted at in the books, they have either been hinted at by GRRM or told straight to D&D. Next season is only going to spoil more as the show reaches the majority of information on what D&D were told.

And what I'm saying is that even if some of the big events in the show happen in the books, the context in which they happen will be so different as to render the story completely changed.

And add to that the fact that we are seeing big events in the show now that I can't possibly imagine happening in the books at all. (The sept explosion, the wight meeting in the dragon pit, etc). We are off the edge of the map mate, and this is D&D's show now.

 

[Rixxan]

Personally I hope they differ, vastly

I'm absolutely loving the experience with the show, and then in 20 years when I get to read GRRMs version - I'll get to experience something new

 

[Vixdean]

Shireen burns, Jon comes back to life, Hodor hodors, and Dany comes West. Besides those events happening in some form, the show is entirely fan fiction at this point. Literally none of the decisions made by any of the major characters make sense for their book versions.

 

[Rixxan]

Shireen burns, Jon comes back to life, Hodor hodors, and Dany comes West. Besides those events happening in some form, the show is entirely fan fiction at this point. Literally none of the decisions made by any of the major characters make sense for their book versions.

I generally agree with this assessment

But the problem with this course of logic is that you might be applying a characters book sensibilities as they exist at the end of AFFC/ADWD - who's to say TWOW won't spur change or alter motivation?

 

[demosthenes]

Personally I hope they differ, vastly

I'm absolutely loving the experience with the show, and then in 20 years when I get to read the author grrm picks on his death bed version - I'll get to experience something new

Ftfy.

 

[Gigglepoo]

They won't do that, they will try an burn it, but Mel stops them IMO.

As long as Davos doesn't partner with Mel for no reason.

 

[Rixxan]

Ftfy.

Lol

Wouldn't surprise me

 

[Pyramid head]

I always figured Lady Stoneheart would give Jon her life after dealing with the Freys. She does have Robb's crown and knows about the KitN will.

I can't quite remember, but did Cat figure something out about Jon not being Ned's illegitimate child while she was at Riverrun with her dying father? It's been a while since I read the books but I'm sure something made me imagine some sort of undead reconciliation between them both down the line.

Also, I reckon Jon's resurrection will be told from Jon's perspective, but through Ghost's eyes in the book.

 

[electroshockwave]

I can't quite remember, but did Cat figure something out about Jon not being Ned's illegitimate child while she was at Riverrun with her dying father? It's been a while since I read the books but I'm sure something made me imagine some sort of undead reconciliation between them both down the line.

Also, I reckon Jon's resurrection will be told from Jon's perspective, but through Ghost's eyes in the book.

I don't think so. It's after Riverrun on the way to the Twins that Cat and Robb have the conversation about legitimizing Jon and she's still pretty against it because of the danger bastards and their kids pose to Robb and his heirs. She didn't seem to have softened on him at all. That's why I don't think she'll be the one to help Jon. Jon becoming KITN is taking her children's birth right. That's her biggest issue with Jon other than Ned's perceived infidelity.