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[FordGTGuy]

Kinda sucks though that you're not guaranteed better performance by switching from 4K to 1080p.

Guess it is like the situation on the current box where 1080p and 720p perform exactly the same.

Will be a lot of begging on here if games don't get 1080p/60 support from devs.

Like I said it's up to the devs.

If the devs feel that it's worth offering a 1080p 60fps setting where it pushes the graphics... they can do that.

The important thing is that they can.

That is not a direct answer to my hypothetical. Which, by the way, is the question on a lot of people's minds, I'm pretty sure. I know if I were an Xbox gamer, that'd be how I would want to use Scorpio and I would not be convinced that I could, at this point in time.

Look, clearly we draw different conclusions from what Spencer and others have said about Scorpio up to this point. So I'm gonna leave it at this for now and not waste any more time endlessly fencing about interpretations. But I did call it, and I will be talking to you later, regardless of whether I'm right or not.

I can't say this little discussion has been pleasurable. I feel you're choosing the interpretation you want to believe. I remain very skeptical.

It is a direct answer, you just keep trying to come up with hypothetical ways to circumvent it.

THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS TO WHAT THE DEVELOPER CAN DO WITH THE SCORPIO HARDWARE. I really can't write it out any clearer than that.

 

[Fdkn]

the only person that MS should allow to talk in public is the spinmaster from the NPD statements.

 

[MisterXDTV]

"Nobody gets left behind" is the result of going away from the traditional generational model...

The problem for Microsoft is that the specs difference between One and Scorpio is so big that two things can happen:

A) Scorpio is held back by XOne compatibility
B) XOne gets poor performances in games because of Scorpio

Thats why I think Sony strategy is smarter:

Neo makes PS4 games perform better (1080p/60, graphics slightly upgraded) but the difference with the OG is not as big so OG PS4 is "protected".

Then in 2019/2020 Sony will launch a True generational leap with a "PS5" that will make PS4 obsolete after 6-7 years, a normal console cycle

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

The problem with Microsoft entertainment divisions is they speak to consumers largely the same way as they talk to their more business like customers. They put out a direct message and automatically assume everyone will be on the same page. Failing to realize that gamers in particular need the message to be more 'comforting', easy to understand and frankly, less blunt.

It's something they really need to work on.

 

[Kayant]

Because he already came out and clarified it?

Yes but has he said anywhere were his initial statement wasn't clear enough?

Ok looking at this more closely the "confusion" in this mainly comes from when these interviews of been released. In all interviews he has marketed Scorpio has a 4K gaming device and said devs can use the power how they want to although the way he answers this sometimes is not so clear like in the metro interview.

Also I wrongly said you claimed about downsampling being a benefit. Sorry about that.

Edit -
Banned

 

[Bitch Pudding]

the only person that MS should allow to talk in public is the spinmaster from the NPD statements.

Someone like Phil, and every one else allowed to speak for the XBOX division, should be well aware about the core messages of their new product, or just STFU. It's literally unbelievable that there's no common theme in their statements.

 

[LukasTaves]

I would have to think that eventually they will package the adapter in with the Kinect.

I think they already do, because this time they made a single standalone kinect for Pc or console, unlike the first that had a Pc and a Console version.

 

[JawzPause]

what a nightmare.
shouldn't have announced scorpio in the first place yet and they definitely shouldn't be talking to the press about it.
complete shambles

 

[Darkwater]

But aren't you insinuating that there will be a 4K mandate? That's sort of what it seems like, unless I'm misreading.

Edit: I think you are reading too much into the "nobody gets left behind" quote. That's a play towards complete forwards/backwards compatibility within the "Xbox One family."

What bugs me is that Spencer hasn't directly said you can achieve a constant closer to or at 1080p internal rendering res with a nice constant 60fps framerate on 1080p displays in situations where the One and the One S cannot.

Here's what I mean. More quotes from the EG interview:

I saw Aaron Greenberg tweeted to say there will be no Scorpio exclusives. Is that right?

Phil Spencer: That's right. When you're buying a console game from us, you know that console game will run on your original Xbox. No-one gets left behind. We said that on stage. Your Xbox One S and Scorpio. That's an important design point for us. They're all part of the same family. And we want to make sure just like when you're buying your music today, you don't worry about upgrading to a new phone that somehow won't play your old songs or your new songs. We think about your Xbox One collection of games that will move with you between those different consoles.

But the specs you have released suggest the Scorpio is a monster, beyond what we understand of the PlayStation 4 Neo. Won't developers be so excited by the prospect, that they'll want to develop for the specs, and if so we're in a situation where they're thinking about, well, I have to actually make this work on Xbox One as well, and that's perhaps an issue for them?

Phil Spencer: Our biggest games out there ship on PC today, and the PC has this space of, right, you look at the big PC games that are coming out, they're going to support 4K, some of them will support 6K and crazy resolutions on PC and unlock framerates. What a developer's looking for is a real sweet spot of install base and users. We've got tens of millions of people who have Xbox Ones. Developers are gonna see that and, frankly, as the platform holder we're going to make sure games come out and support Xbox One.

First off, notice how Spencer reiterates 'no-one gets left behind' in the context of the different versions of the One. Basically he's saying that despite the coming of Scorpio, whichever One-variant you own, you're gonna be golden. You can play your games. The thing is, the coming of Scorpio is gonna create degrees of support within the 1080p display space. Yes, the Xbox One will always be supported, but if Scorpio can simply perform better on a 1080p display than the One and the One S can, then you create a gap between what players will rightfully regard as an 'inferior' and a 'superior' way of playing the game. And that gap means that One and One S owners will be left behind, in a fairly big way. It would hurt the One, the One S and their owners.

Microsoft could remedy this how? Exactly, by simply not allowing this gap to form in the 1080p space. By mandating parity within the 1080p space. That strategy also perfectly aligns with the other Spencer quote on EG:

Phil Spencer: What TV do you have?

A standard 1080p TV.

Phil Spencer: Then you should buy this box [the One S], because Scorpio is not going to do anything for you. Scorpio is designed as a 4K console, and if you don't have a 4K TV, the benefit we've designed for, you're not going to see. Clearly, you can buy Scorpio, and if and when you decide you want to buy a 4K television to take advantage of the increased performance, obviously the console will be ready for you.

Basically, what I'm predicting is that MS will tell devs that Scorpio's video output on a 1080p display must be identical (in terms of internal res and fps) to what the One and One S output. On a 4K display, devs have the freedom to use or not use that extra resolution space any way they want. No internal 4K resolution mandate. Again: "if and when you decide you want to buy a 4K television to take advantage of the increased performance, obviously the console will be ready for you." The implication in that sentence is that you will not be able to take advantage of the increased performance on a 1080p display, and I strongly suspect that is for the reasons I've explained above.

EDIT: also, I do not rule out the possibility that Scorpio will outperform the One and One S on 1080p display, but Microsoft is choosing to remain mum on that subject because that would hurt One and One S sales a freaking year and a half before Scorpio is even out.

 

[MisterXDTV]

What bugs me is that Spencer hasn't directly said you can achieve a constant closer to or at 1080p internal rendering res with a nice constant 60fps framerate on 1080p displays in situations where the One and the One S cannot.

Here's what I mean. More quotes from the EG interview:



First off, notice how Spencer reiterates 'no-one gets left behind' in the context of the different versions of the One. Basically he's saying that despite the coming of Scorpio, whichever One-variant you own, you're gonna be golden. You can play your games. The thing is, the coming of Scorpio is gonna create degrees of support within the 1080p display space. Yes, the Xbox One will always be supported, but if Scorpio can simply perform better on a 1080p display than the One and the One S can, then you create a gap between what players will rightfully regard as an 'inferior' and a 'superior' way of playing the game. And that gap means that One and One S owners will be left behind, in a fairly big way. It would hurt the One, the One S and their owners.

Microsoft could remedy this how? Exactly, by simply not allowing this gap to form in the 1080p space. By mandating parity within the 1080p space. That strategy also perfectly aligns with the other Spencer quote on EG:



Basically, what I'm predicting is that MS will tell devs that Scorpio's video output on a 1080p display must be identical (in terms of internal res and fps) to what the One and One S output. On a 4K display, devs have the freedom to use or not use that extra resolution space any way they want. No internal 4K resolution mandate. Again: "if and when you decide you want to buy a 4K television to take advantage of the increased performance, obviously the console will be ready for you." The implication in that sentence is that you will not be able to take advantage of the increased performance on a 1080p display, for the reasons I've explained above.

EDIT: also, I do not rule out the possibility that Scorpio will outperform the One and One S on 1080p display, but Microsoft is choosing to remain mum on that subject because that would hurt One and One S sales a freaking year and a half before Scorpio is even out.

Great post, I agree!

 

[IndoAssassin]

I'm not buying a 4K tv. The OS has horrendous performance issues all three of my Xbox Ones. I don't get how people claim the performance is fine when all three of mine perform like shit. I'm tired of YouTube, the Films and TV app, achievements, the Halo app,and Netflix constantly freezing. I'm tired of scrolling then the OS freezes for a few seconds and then will repeat all my button presses only to go somewhere else. I'm trying to use these machines as a media Centre, but holy shit do they perform like ass.

If they are not going to fix the performance of the OS, will buying the Scorpio fix that shit? Or do I have to buy a 4K tv as well in order to get a proper working OS.

Like pressing the home button and having to wait 30 seconds is horrible user experience.

 

[Bluenoser]

What bugs me is that Spencer hasn't directly said you can achieve a constant closer to or at 1080p internal rendering res with a nice constant 60fps framerate on 1080p displays in situations where the One and the One S cannot.



EDIT: also, I do not rule out the possibility that Scorpio will outperform the One and One S on 1080p display, but Microsoft is choosing to remain mum on that subject because that would hurt One and One S sales a freaking year and a half before Scorpio is even out.

If this ends up happening, there is literally 0 reason for XB1 owners to upgrade. Better value to upgrade to a gaming PC and play 4K on those.

 

[Darkwater]

Great post, I agree!

Thanks!

I think Scorpio on a 1080p display will emulate the One (S), warts and all. It will do it in exactly the same way the One now emulates Xbox 360 games in BC, warts and all.

EDIT:

If this ends up happening, there is literally 0 reason for XB1 owners to upgrade. Better value to upgrade to a gaming PC and play 4K on those.

Yes. This move by MS means the ecosystem is taking a step towards PCs. And yeah, actual PCs are then still a better choice than an Xbox One PC-esque device, unsurprisingly.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Thanks!

I think Scorpio on a 1080p display will emulate the One (S), warts and all. It will do it in exactly the same way the One now emulates Xbox 360 games in BC, warts and all.

EDIT:



Yes. This move by MS means the ecosystem is taking a step towards PCs. And yeah, actual PCs are then still a better choice than an Xbox One PC-esque device, unsurprisingly.

That's what I said before:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=207312913&postcount=2106

You can't say: "No one gets left behind" and then "Scorpio is a monster, the most powerful console ever"

You have to choose whether to protect the weaker console or to use the power of the monster at its best...

 

[Darkwater]

That's what I said before:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=207312913&postcount=2106

You can't say: "No one gets left behind" and then "Scorpio is a monster, the most powerful console ever"

You have to choose between protecting the weaker console or using the power of the monster at its best...

Yep. MS is not explicitly stating it, but it cannot boil down to anything other than this, I believe. The coming of Scorpio means 'okay gaming at 4K max' just as the coming of the Xbox One meant 'okay gaming at 1080p max'. There will probably be no 'amazing gaming at 1080p'.

 

[cakely]

Huh, Phil Spencer's messaging even has its own defense force.

The only ones making a PR nightmare is the media.

Did you just blame "the media"? This is starting to sound like a bad political campaign.

 

[RoKKeR]

snip

All good points, and I agree that there are a few things in here that will be a part of this awkward transition to this new way of approaching console hardware.

Basically, what I'm predicting is that MS will tell devs that Scorpio's video output on a 1080p display must be identical (in terms of internal res and fps) to what the One and One S output. On a 4K display, devs have the freedom to use or not use that extra resolution space any way they want. No internal 4K resolution mandate. Again: "if and when you decide you want to buy a 4K television to take advantage of the increased performance, obviously the console will be ready for you." The implication in that sentence is that you will not be able to take advantage of the increased performance on a 1080p display, for the reasons I've explained above.

EDIT: also, I do not rule out the possibility that Scorpio will outperform the One and One S on 1080p display, but Microsoft is choosing to remain mum on that subject because that would hurt One and One S sales a freaking year and a half before Scorpio is even out.

I understand what you're getting at here, and this is something that we will have to hear more about as this thing gets closer to materializing. I personally don't think they will mandate how a game outputs based on what kind of TV it's plugged into; (which I believe is what you are saying) that sounds strange to me and isn't a vibe I get from any of the messaging. I think Phil is really focused on 4K - he keeps mentioning it as an "inflection point" for the console market, which is why it's such a big focus with this early messaging of the Scorpio. However, despite using 4K as a focal point, I don't think they will be dictating how games run based on the kinds of displays they are plugged into. It doesn't make sense for the Scorpio to emulate an Xbox One on a 1080p set - the Scorpio is going to run the games exactly how it would on a 1080p set as it would a 4K set.

Whatever the target performance is for the Scorpio version of a game is, (whether it be native 4K or some other combination of resolution/FPS/graphical improvements) I believe you will see that same thing no matter the TV.

At this point in time, because I think Phil is envisioning that most every game will be running at or close to 4K, then you can start to see why he might downplay the improvements from having the Scorpio version being played on a 1080p TV. (i.e. you really only get the downsampling from the Scorpio version)

Again, it's hard to talk about this stuff when we know so little about how it will ultimately pan out, but this is why (I think, along with combatting Neo news) the Scorpio was announced so early. I appreciate the opportunity to have an open conversation about this stuff, and the ultimate vision for the Scorpio will certainly be molded by the way developers and gamers think about this new hardware trajectory.

 

[Darkwater]

All good points, and I agree that there are a few things in here that will be a part of this awkward transition to this new way of approaching console hardware.


I understand what you're getting at here, and this is something that we will have to hear more about as this thing gets closer to materializing. I personally don't think they will mandate how a game outputs based on what kind of TV it's plugged into; (which I believe is what you are saying) that sounds strange to me and isn't a vibe I get from any of the messaging. I think Phil is really focused on 4K - he keeps mentioning it as an "inflection point" for the console market, which is why it's such a big focus with this early messaging of the Scorpio. However, despite using 4K as a focal point, I don't think they will be dictating how games run based on the kinds of displays they are plugged into.

If they don't limit internal resolution and fps on a 1080p display on Scorpio to the same as what the One and One S can achieve on that same display, then you're hurting those latter 2 consoles. If MS doesn't want to do that, and I believe that is the case, then you have no other choice but to throttle Scorpio.

Again, it's hard to talk about this stuff when we know so little about how it will ultimately pan out, but this is why (I think, along with combatting Neo news) the Scorpio was announced so early. I appreciate the opportunity to have an open conversation about this stuff, and the ultimate vision for the Scorpio will certainly be molded by the way developers and gamers think about this new hardware trajectory.

I should hope they are influenced by what the community has to say about things up to this point. But even if they are listening, I think they've already painted themselves into a bit of a corner, and the only way out of that corner is to only give the benefits of Scorpio to the owners of 4K displays, just as Phil Spencer has already said to Eurogamer. Honestly, the more I post about this, the more this seems like the only path that makes sense.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Exactly, let's say you have a game that is 720p or 900p/30 on Xbox One (and those will be a lot more in late 2017 and 2018). Scorpio could run the same game at 1080p/60 without any problem.

Then how can you say 1080p gamers should get an Xbox One S? It becomes a totally different game in graphics and performances....

How is "No one gets left behind" true?

 

[Darkwater]

Exactly, let's say you have a game that is 720p or 900p/30 on Xbox One (and those will be a lot more in late 2017 and 2018). Scorpio could run the same at 1080p/60 without any problem.

Then how can you say 1080p owners should get an Xbox One S? It becomes a total different game in graphics and performances....

Boom. Spencer, you're done. We got you.

EDIT:

How is "No one gets left behind" true?

It's only true if you throttle Scorpio on 1080p displays, breh.

EDIT 2: and throttling all that power on a 1080p display to keep other console owners happy is a damn waste of processing power and money. But I understand all the same. That's why Phil says to EG that 1080p display owners should get the One S. We are so done here.

 

[RoKKeR]

If they don't limit internal resolution and fps on a 1080p display on Scorpio to the same as what the One and One S can achieve on that same display, then you're hurting those latter 2 consoles. If MS doesn't want to do that, and I believe that is the case, then you have no other choice but to throttle Scorpio.

Hm, I'm personally not convinced on this. I think it depends on how you read the whole "nobody gets left behind", which as I stated before IMO applies more to forwards/backwards compatibility and having a shared ecosystem of games, networks, and accessories rather than identical experiences across One/One S and Scorpio.

I guess we will see how it works out, but imposing a limit on a game based on what TV you are plugged into just seems too "out there" for me to buy. *shrug* The reason why Phil was saying a Scorpio won't do you much good with a 1080p TV is because I think he envisions most all Scorpio games to be running in 4K, which means the only real benefit you have from running those games on a 1080p display is the downsampling. (which is something he has mentioned, see the GiantBomb interview)

Appreciate the discussion though! Going to be a hell of a lot of this over the next few (read: many) months haha.

 

[Darkwater]

Hm, I'm personally not convinced on this. I think it depends on how you read the whole "nobody gets left behind", which as I stated before IMO applies more to forwards/backwards compatibility and having a shared ecosystem of games, networks, and accessories rather than identical experiences across One/One S and Scorpio.

Sure, I'll agree 'no one gets left behind' refers to stuff like backward compatiblity. But I don't think you can deny that Spencer doesn't only mean last-gen and current-gen when he says that. He's also referring to the One/One S/Scorpio-situation (read: intra-generational) when he says that, as evidenced by this quote:

I saw Aaron Greenberg tweeted to say there will be no Scorpio exclusives. Is that right?

Phil Spencer: That's right. When you're buying a console game from us, you know that console game will run on your original Xbox. No-one gets left behind. We said that on stage. Your Xbox One S and Scorpio. That's an important design point for us. They're all part of the same family. And we want to make sure just like when you're buying your music today, you don't worry about upgrading to a new phone that somehow won't play your old songs or your new songs. We think about your Xbox One collection of games that will move with you between those different consoles.

And I'm pretty sure that he doesn't only mean Xbox One games play on every variant of the Xbox One. I'm pretty sure he means they all play well on each variant. And honestly, like I said, having the same game run in higher res at a higher framerate on Scorpio on the same display is pretty much leaving someone (X1/S owners) behind.

I guess we will see how it works out, but imposing a limit on a game based on what TV you are plugged into just seems too "out there" for me to buy. *shrug*

Appreciate the discussion though! Going to be a hell of a lot of this over the next few (read: many) months haha.

Agreed. We will have to wait and see. But I think that either the owners of the X1/S or the gamers who want to play X1 games in 1080p/60/ultra are in for a disappointment. I'm very curious to see which group is going to get shafted.

Thank you as well for the discussion. I'm glad we could keep this civil and this was honestly very interesting. These are interesting times in gaming, right now. We'll see. Now I'm gonna have that breakfast I've been putting off for hours (partly) because of this discussion.

 

[LewieP]

The problem with Microsoft entertainment divisions is they speak to consumers largely the same way as they talk to their more business like customers. They put out a direct message and automatically assume everyone will be on the same page. Failing to realize that gamers in particular need the message to be more 'comforting', easy to understand and frankly, less blunt.

It's something they really need to work on.

I think you've got that backwards. I'd love for them to be more direct and more blunt, as would most people.

But they always use language that prioritizes pushing often vague marketing points, rather than giving specific technical details that allow technically minded customers to understand exactly what this means.

That coupled with the interview technique of seeking to not answer questions, but to cover the aspect of their PR plan most closely aligned with questions, makes it extremely frustrating when anyone wants or needs to get a straight answer out of them on a subject for which they do not want to deliver a straight answer.

 

[RoKKeR]

Thank you as well for the discussion. I'm glad we could keep this civil and this was honestly very interesting. These are interesting times in gaming, right now. We'll see. Now I'm gonna have that breakfast I've been putting off for hours (partly) because of this discussion.

Sure thing! Definitely gave me something new to think on. Lots to consider here, and only one half of the big two have played their cards so far!

 

[x Dredgen Yor x]

Phil has clarified his statements again today to say that people with 1080p televisions will notice a difference and scropio will be awesome, can we all have a hug and get along now?


from videogamer.com

hil Spencer has clarified comments he made yesterday about Microsoft's upcoming console Project Scorpio, confirming that 1080p TV owners will notice a difference in games running on the new console, and that its 6 teraflops of power "will obviously impact the games in the way they play".

Speaking to Giant Bomb (and uploaded by Gaming Dog), Spencer explained that he wanted to "clarify one thing because this is something I said yesterday around, if you don't have a 4K TV what do you do with Scorpio?

"To me this is really around our motivation. Our motivation with Project Scorpio was with 4K coming - as you say, you see the TVs out there, we designed this console for that. And if you've got a 1K TV and… If you already have an Xbox One don't go buy an Xbox One S thinking your games are going to play better. It's not for [that]. If you like the design or you want the 4K streaming, great, HDR, great, but I'm not trying to upgrade you there.

"Scorpio is more powerful than the original Xbox [One], four-and-a-half times. And the 6 teraflops actually will obviously impact the games in the way they play."

https://youtu.be/eCFig7lGyEs

He continued: "If you look at a game like Halo 5, Halo 5 implements something called dynamic scaling, so as scenes get more complex, in order to maintain 60fps they will actually change the resolution that you're running at. And they're not the only game that does this. So then if you run that game on Project Scorpio you're actually going to be at the max frame rate of that game more often.

"I'm not going to put that as a top-selling feature of Scorpio because not all games use dynamic scaling. I'm trying to be transparent with people about where we are in the design of Project Scorpio and what it was designed for. It was designed in order to enable these high-fidelity 4K experiences. So some of the existing games will actually run a little better if they're using dynamic scaling, but I wouldn't buy Scorpio to run your existing library of Xbox One games [better]. I wouldn't suggest somebody does that.

"And then I get the question of well, if you have an HDTV and you don't have a 4K TV, should you go buy Project Scorpio? And I guess some people will do that, and obviously Scorpio is going to be running the 6 teraflop version of a game, and that version of a game, even when downsampled to HD will look different than the game running at 1080p.

"But I still think of the complete Scorpio experience as somebody that has a 4K TV with Scorpio plugged into it. To take Scorpio and then plug it into an HDTV to me feels like you're taking a 4K frame buffer and down-rezzing it to show it on your TV. And the box will have downsampling - it will obviously show up on an HDTV. But the real design point for us, the motivation behind Scorpio, was 4K gaming, 6 teraflops. Some developers will take advantage of that 6 teraflops in different ways but that was really the design point for Project Scorpio and the reaction of the dev community, and frankly the fans here at E3 has been fantastic."

xbox one slim -
Microsoft won't force developers to run games at a native 4K resolution on Scorpio either, he said, stating that he would "absolutely be open" to developers adopting a native 1K frame buffer and using the console's power in other ways.

"We're going to talk more specifics about Project Scorpio so we'll get into more of the details," he continued, "but I think creative freedom and how you want to use the power of the box is something that I would support. I came from first-party as you guys know, so putting the right tools in the hands of the best creators is our job as the platform."

All Scorpio games will run on the original Xbox One and Xbox One S, however, Spencer assures.

The clarification follows an interview with Spencer posted yesterday where he said that Scorpio is "not going to do anything" for 1080p TV owners.

"Scorpio is designed as a 4K console, and if you don't have a 4K TV, the benefit we've designed for, you're not going to see," he said. "Clearly, you can buy Scorpio, and if and when you decide you want to buy a 4K television to take advantage of the increased performance, obviously the console will be ready for you."

 

[Izuna]

Update 3: watched the video. He's forgetting VR again, isn't he? "No Scorpio exclusives"

Maybe he wants VR games that are also playable without VR...

or right now, MS doesn't want to give people a reason to wait.

 

[Movalpolos]

That's what I said before:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=207312913&postcount=2106

You can't say: "No one gets left behind" and then "Scorpio is a monster, the most powerful console ever"

You have to choose whether to protect the weaker console or to use the power of the monster at its best...

Well I guess there is still plenty of time to change the messa- I mean make the message more clear.

 

[Pathfinder]

That's what I said before:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=207312913&postcount=2106

You can't say: "No one gets left behind" and then "Scorpio is a monster, the most powerful console ever"

You have to choose whether to protect the weaker console or to use the power of the monster at its best...

Well I guess there is still plenty of time to change the messa- I mean make the message more clear.

You've heard of scaling, right?

Devs don't HAVE to choose whether to protect the weaker console or use the power of the new console at its best. Games can be developed to scale based upon the hardware its played on.

You know, like PC games do. Apparently some people still need this concept spelled out for them. The messaging is crystal clear now for the rest of us.

 

[TrackZ]

Why would anyone want the graphic fidelity of a game held to parity in 1080p between the Xbox One the Scorpio? Just to make Xbox One owners "feel better"? Screw that. That's not a good idea at all.

The people spending the money to buy a Scorpio should get the performance they pay for in every game. If you can't afford it, so be it. Be happy with what you have and that games will continue to play on the base Xbox One at all. Save your money and upgrade when you can down the line.

Existing games in the library should get patched on Scorpio to run the equivalent of 1080/60/Ultra on PC. Leave the Xbox One fidelity as is at <1080/30/Low. New games should be coded the same way and adjust depending on what hardware is present with devs free to choose how they apply the 6 TFlops on a Scorpio.

There's a word for the "keep everything the same mindset". It's called envy. If I can't have it, I don't want you to have it either. Technology marches on and every new piece of technology should take advantage of its potential, not be arbitrarily held back.

I was really excited for Scorpio earlier this week. I'm growing increasingly concerned that game fidelity socialism will see to it everyone needs to be the same, and Scorpio will be hamstrung in what it ends up delivering.

Take a look at IGN comparison for Doom, for example:
http://www.ign.com/videos/2016/05/18/doom-graphics-comparison-pc-vs-xbox-one-vs-ps4

The difference of PC to Xbox One is immense, but it's not just resolution and frame rate. It's effects, lighting, and eye candy. Doom should get a day one patch on Scorpio to make it look like those PC settings at 1080p. The power is there to do it. Scorpio games should be allowed to look light years better than their Xbox One counterparts.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Why would anyone want the graphic fidelity of a game held to parity in 1080p between the Xbox One the Scorpio? Just to make Xbox One owners "feel better"? Screw that. That's not a good idea at all.

Agreed, that's just weird. Squandering 4x the performance on 4X the pixels just seems so futile to me. I feel sure most devs would want to target lower and have more balls out visuals.

Now maybe it's still higher than 1080, maybe it uses something like Halo 5s dynamic resolution and hovers between 2K and 4K or something. That would still give 4K TVs more benefit, but a fixed 1080p TV would still be able to take advantage of the buttload more power it has since it's not just trying to do what the XBO (rarely) manages at 1080p, at 4K.

 

[cackhyena]

Will Scorpio game's frame rates at least not be blowing away what XB1 can do? Why wouldn't he say to go for the Scorpio despite only having a 1080p tv, atm. It will still play the games better. Like, how could it not? The devs will do what they can for that console.

 

[EGM1966]

Oh well : guess I don't get to respond to Ford's incorrect reading (and response to) my post.

Seems to me the ongoing heated discussion, multiple updates and clarifications confirms the issue I first noted: this reveal has been somewhat flubbed in terms of establishing a clear market understanding of their proposition.

 

[Klocker]

Oh well : guess I don't get to respond to Ford's incorrect reading (and response to) my post.

Seems to me the ongoing heated discussion, multiple updates and clarifications confirms the issue I first noted: this reveal has been somewhat flubbed in terms of establishing a clear market understanding of their proposition.

But the thing we have to remember is this is not a typical reveal, it was more of a teaser with more to come stay tuned... Expecting to Know everything now is premature because it still had to play out with the devs. the hardware is there for the devs to make whatever they want to make so long as they are all compatible with in the microsoft family.


The true reveal will be next E 3 and we will know all.

 

[EGM1966]

But the thing we have to remember is this is not a typical reveal, it was more of a teaser with more to come stay tuned... Expecting to Know everything now is premature because it still had to play out with the devs. the hardware is there for the devs to make whatever they want to make so long as they are all compatible with in the microsoft family.


The true reveal will be next E 3 and we will know all.

Sorry consumer market doesn't work like that. They chose to reveal something claiming they wanted customers to understand their options. They weren't clear on the options. Confusuion resulted. If they can't be clear they shouldn't have revealed what they did.

In short the onus is on them not me or any other customer in terms of getting information transfer right.

Either they made a mistake revealing it all at this stage if they don't want to go into details or they didn't deliver the details they felt they could share well enough or clearly enough to avoid people wanting clarification.