Support NeoGAF

[Maninthemirror]

Is the xbone's die size bigger than the ps4's die size?

Everything including the viewing distance from the tv is bigger for the Xbox one


But on a serious note, yes it looks bigger

 

[tipoo]

That doesn't look anywhere near 15. The two bigger pools are 16 each.

I'm not claiming either way, but eSRAM and eDRAM can have different densities even at the same fab process, ie the WIi Us larger 32MB pool is less dense than the smaller 2MB pool, for different reasons.

The smaller one here could similarly be denser.

 

[phosphor112]

let me give you the run down...

- The tech is so new and powerful Chipworks doenst understand what they are looking at
- They didn't include the side shot x-rays because there is hidden stuff UNDER the hardware you can see
- They didn't x-ray the southbridge because the secret sauce is there
- There are extra "rectangles" on the CPU's and that proves the Xbone CPU is more powerful
- The 14 Xbone CU's are "denser" and therefore "beefier" than the PS4's so 12 "dense" and "beefy" is better!


no, what they said was there there was a total of 47MB of onboard storage...they didn't say anything about what it was or what kind...

You forgot that chipworks is SDF.

 

[onQ123]

it's not, they said at the hotchips event I believe that there was an additional 15mb of esram for the cpu.

They said 47MB of on board memory they never said it was more eSRAM.

47MB is all the memory on the chip added up including the 32MB of eSRAM and all of the cache.

SRAM between the CPU's is the missing memory that people couldn't find when they added it all up.

 

[Visualante2]

It has always been staggering to me how they can make something so complex so small.
Off topic:

Spoiler

are there any good documentary films about the evolution of the CPU, that cover near to current techniques?

It has an NFC chip?!
I reckon that will have tied into the DRM. Tap the game on the console, unique NFC tag ID gets uploaded into the cloud and linked to your account, and locks out the ID for anyone else.

Someone at Microsoft sees the Xbone being used in the work place where NFC cards to instantly log in might make sense.

 

[Error404]

I've been eagerly awaiting that comment section in his latest post to update to show what kind of asinine discussion they come with for this.

Is misterxmedia a troll? He can't possibly believe half the stuff that he writes, surely. And that game insider talk and the fake comments can't be the work of someone who isn't a troll

 

[Metfanant]

You forgot that chipworks is SDF.

Yes of course

- Chipworks is SDF for using fake/misleading x-ray shots
- Digital Foundry is SDF for saying BF4 looks better on PS4 and criticizing the short fallings of Forza
- "SonyGAF" is owned by Sony
- N4G is SDF because they only show pro-Sony articles and hide positive Xbone ones
- Sony is broke, but they have paid off all the journalists to say PS4 games look better


did i miss any?

Is misterxmedia a troll? He can't possibly believe half the stuff that he writes, surely. And that game insider talk and the fake comments can't be the work of someone who isn't a troll

either he is a troll that has been leading these people on with a fake "insider"...or his "insider" is a troll that has been leading him and the people that read the blog on...

the place is just a place where SEVERE Xbox fanboys gathered because they need to believe the Xbone is more powerful

 

[badb0y]

This should end all discussions of dGPU and secret sauce now.

We have known the correct specs of both consoles for over a year now.

 

[artist]

SRAM between the CPU's is the missing memory that people couldn't find when they added it all up.

Yup.

32MB eSRAM
4MB L2 (CPU)
512KB L1 (CPU)
1MB SHAPE
512KB L2 (GPU)
768KB LDS (GPU)
96KB Scalar Data cache (GPU)
3120KB (GPU - 260KB per CU)

~ 42MB + Buffers + 2 Geometry engine caches + Redundancy. Redundancy of ~10% for eSRAM and you arrive close to 47

The 47MB on-chip storage figure is as meaningless figure as the 5 billion transistors.

 

[tipoo]

They said 47MB of on board memory they never said it was more eSRAM.

47MB is all the memory on the chip added up including the 32MB of eSRAM and all of the cache.

SRAM between the CPU's is the missing memory that people couldn't find when they added it all up.

So 32MB + 2MB + 2MB (L2 split between two Jaguar clusters), the L1 cache maybe half a meg altogether...Where is the other 11MB coming from?

 

[hesido]

misterX's herd is in full on meltdown mode trying to figure out how to explain these pictures...

Ah, MrXmedia... Their claims have so far always been so outrageously stupid, and with so much bad writing / lack of grammar, that I'm beginning to think the unthinkable:MisterX may well be a very cunning PR move by no other than Sony.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

It was confirmed to be present in the external power brick.

 

[Error404]

Ah, MrXmedia... Their claims have so far always been so outrageously stupid, and with so much bad writing / lack of grammar, that I'm beginning to think the unthinkable:MisterX may well be a very cunning PR move by no other than Sony.

It was kaz this whole time!

 

[Dirk Benedict]

that's exactly the logic the misterxmedia morons are using. funny they haven't caught on to being lied to for the last 2 years by their "insiders"

Someone should edit that image and add a nice bowl of salsa in there.

 

[phosphor112]

They said 47MB of on board memory they never said it was more eSRAM.

47MB is all the memory on the chip added up including the 32MB of eSRAM and all of the cache.

SRAM between the CPU's is the missing memory that people couldn't find when they added it all up.

Yep.
Edit: artist posted the correct sizes already.

 

[babyghost853]

Can I take a system with the die size of the Xbox but dedicated to GPU - looks like you could squeeze 28CUs on there, then the GDDR5 of the PS4?

Just about.

 

[Fortunatebeef]

Where are the move engines? ACE's? (both consoles) and which mem controller(s) are for onion/garlic? would give a better idea of how the SoC+unified ram setup works.

Edit, pretty obvious which controllers go to each bus.

 

[Proelite]

24 cu and 16 rops?

You guys are forgetting about the rops.

 

[Saint Gregory]

with Kinect bundled, it would be much more expensive than $499

With the money they would have saved by having a smaller eSRAM-less chip it probably would have evened out.

I can't even imagine what MS engineers must be thinking now that they've seen the difference between their solution and what Sony came up with.

 

[coldfoot]

24 cu and 16 rops?

You guys are forgetting about the rops.

And also saddling this 28CU monster GPU with DDR3 memory controllers

 

[hesido]

It was kaz this whole time!

Anyway, the more I read that, the more I think they may also be the Onion News Network of insider information. They really have a lot of stupid commentary, to the point that I think they are master trolls.

Some notable quotes:

PS4 failure rate keeps very hight...

Sony don't afraid to lie...

Xbox ----- Playstaion

I mean, the whole thing seems to be written in a manner that looks to have 0 credibility... Could it really be genuinely stupid? I'm beginning to think this is not the case.

 

[EL CUCO]

 

[AlfeG]

- The tech is so new and powerful Chipworks doenst understand what they are looking at
- They didn't include the side shot x-rays because there is hidden stuff UNDER the hardware you can see
- They didn't x-ray the southbridge because the secret sauce is there
- There are extra "rectangles" on the CPU's and that proves the Xbone CPU is more powerful
- The 14 Xbone CU's are "denser" and therefore "beefier" than the PS4's so 12 "dense" and "beefy" is better!

Just keep digging

 

[HoodWinked]

are both consoles 8 core or 6 for yield?

 

[phosphor112]

Just keep digging

...It's a joke post.

 

[Metfanant]

are both consoles 8 core or 6 for yield?

both have 8-cores for the CPU...both have 2 CU's on the GPU disabled for yields

 

[ShapeGSX]

This should end all discussions of dGPU and secret sauce now.

We have known the correct specs of both consoles for over a year now.

There was no discussion to begin with.

 

[Gamesadict]

Was waiting for a thread about this to pop up since that came up this morning.

Well damn, the eSRAM takes as much area as the GPU... Didn't expect that.

Secret sauce confirmed!

Spoiler

misterxmedia am cry

 

[AlfeG]

...It's a joke post.

no way. So I need to bring 'Sarcasm' note everywhere?

 

[tipoo]

are both consoles 8 core or 6 for yield?

8 cores are active, two are just used for the OS. Or at least for the XBO, and speculated for the PS4.

Well damn, the eSRAM takes as much area as the GPU... Didn't expect that.

As much area as the compute units, maybe, or close enough. There's more to the GPU.

 

[EpicConspiracy1]

I love how everyone here acts like they could design the Xbox One better than highly paid very experienced engineers that made it.

 

[phosphor112]

no way. So I need to bring 'Sarcasm' note everywhere?

Yes. Lol.

 

[Begaria]

- Sony is broke, but they have paid off all the journalists to say PS4 games look better

Oh god, my favourite contradiction on that blog! They were in complete celebration when talking about how Sony had to sell off their HQ in order to make a profit, and how Sony doesn't nearly have enough cash to beat Microsoft in power, the billion dollar deals between AMD and Microsoft, etc. Then in the very next breath they complain that Sony, this same "near bankrupt, totally in a bad place financially" company, is paying off everyone in the world to say that the PS4 is better, hushing up any PS4 failures, and paying off journalists for better reviews over Xbox One counter parts.

It's just so fascinating to read!

 

[onQ123]

So 32MB + 2MB + 2MB (L2 split between two Jaguar clusters), the L1 cache maybe half a meg altogether...Where is the other 11MB coming from?

Look Up!

 

[Metfanant]

Oh god, my favourite contradiction on that blog! They were in complete celebration when talking about how Sony had to sell off their HQ in order to make a profit, and how Sony doesn't nearly have enough cash to beat Microsoft in power, the billion dollar deals between AMD and Microsoft, etc. Then in the very next breath they complain that Sony, this same "near bankrupt, totally in a bad place financially" company, is paying off everyone in the world to say that the PS4 is better, hushing up any PS4 failures, and paying off journalists for better reviews over Xbox One counter parts.

It's just so fascinating to read!

i read it every single day...they say laughter is good for your health...

 

[KOHIPEET]

Oh god, my favourite contradiction on that blog! They were in complete celebration when talking about how Sony had to sell off their HQ in order to make a profit, and how Sony doesn't nearly have enough cash to beat Microsoft in power, the billion dollar deals between AMD and Microsoft, etc. Then in the very next breath they complain that Sony, this same "near bankrupt, totally in a bad place financially" company, is paying off everyone in the world to say that the PS4 is better, hushing up any PS4 failures, and paying off journalists for better reviews over Xbox One counter parts.

It's just so fascinating to read!

Thank god. I'm not alone. I find it pretty entertaining to read MisterX blog. The amount of pure, made-up "facts", coupled with the spelling issues on that blog just makes me smile.

I wonder when he's going to give up if the PS4 ends up dominating the market globally.

 

[Rolf NB]

Holy sram. Did not expect that size.

32MB SRAM is 1.6 billion transistors. We've always known it'll be a big part of the chip.

---

Speaking of which, do we have exact measured die sizes for these two now?

 

[skc]

I'll put my hand up and admit I know very little about this sort of stuff.

I suspect I'm not alone, judging by some of the comments lol

 

[LukasTaves]

It's the CPU cache, no?

Doesn't seem like it. There are memory on the CPU blocks, and that extra SRAM is attached to some logic, which in turn has it's own clock generator... Perhaps that's the audio block?

 

[plasmawave]

Have they uncovered the legendary secret sauce?

 

[phosphor112]

double

 

[phosphor112]

I love how everyone here acts like they could design the Xbox One better than highly paid very experienced engineers that made it.

I can build a better pc for cheaper than the Xbox =P.

32MB SRAM is 1.6 billion transistors. We've always known it'll be a big part of the chip.

---

Speaking of which, do we have exact measured die sizes for these two now?

Ps4: 348 sq mm
X1: 363 sq mm

 

[tipoo]

Look Up!

Done, that was posted while I was posting

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I thought misterxmedia was just some clown website that didn't have many followers but then I see there's like hundred of comments waiting for the proof of this magic power boost to be proven now that xbox one is out.

 

[Raist]

I love how everyone here acts like they could design the Xbox One better than highly paid very experienced engineers that made it.

The same highly paid experienced engineers whose work resulted in insane failure rates for the 360, I guess.

 

[Gamesadict]

i read it every single day...they say laughter is good for your health...

Thank god. I'm not alone. I find it pretty entertaining to read MisterX blog. The amount of pure, made-up "facts", coupled with the spelling issues on that blog just makes me smile.

Same here. My favorite to this day is the one where he claims each display plane has 1.3tf for a 4tf total or some crazy stuff like that. Even his readers had to call him out on that one!

As much area as the compute units, maybe, or close enough. There's more to the GPU.

True. Wish we could get more details about the layout, this is fascinating stuff.

 

[Eusis]

that's exactly the logic the misterxmedia morons are using. funny they haven't caught on to being lied to for the last 2 years by their "insiders"

To be fair I guess ESRAM counts as "secret sauce." Too bad the PS4 won out by just having more meat rather than some silly sauce.

 

[Raptor]

What exactly Im looking at here?

Something like this?

Insane to think about it.

 

[ShapeGSX]

So 32MB + 2MB + 2MB (L2 split between two Jaguar clusters), the L1 cache maybe half a meg altogether...Where is the other 11MB coming from?

SRAM isn't just used for caches.

 

[iJudged]

Ps4 such beauty.