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[Frodo]

The saddest thing about this whole story is to notice the survival horror genre is dying.

I mean, unless you are disguising your shooter as a survival horror, looks like your game is gonna fail. Market apparently has no desire for survival horrors. We had a few good survival horrors last generation on the Wii, and in even lower numbers on the PS360 but I can't name one that sold really well. ZombiU tanking is just setting this on stone.

It is a shame. ZombiU is a great survival horror. The team behind it managed to implement some very interesting ideas, and the atmosphere that this genre so desperately needs is right there. If most of the problems of the original were fixed (bugs, repetitive melee combat, lack of polishing, the Arena) on a sequel this could be the best survival horror of all times. I guess we will never see it, though...

 

[EatChildren]

Port it to a system that isn't dead in the market and get people interested, because the game deserves a sequel and Nintendo's utter incompetence with the Wii U is guaranteeing it won't. Game deserves a better market like it deserves that sequel.

 

[JordanLMiller]

But that's not the point – knowing what you do about ZombiU sales, and third-party Wii U game sales in general, which will perform better: an exclusive game on Wii U, or a multiplatform game on PS3, Xbox 360, PC, and Wii U?

It's not only good business, it really is good for developers. Developers want their games to be played. Not to die as a pariah for a system with little support.

I understand the angst over Ubi going back on their promise, but they're also in the business of not releasing talented people to their poor decisions. Montpelier will be better off with this.

There's no law stopping you from porting a game to other systems after it has already been released on one.

 

[djshauny]

Port it to a system that isn't dead in the market and get people interested, because the game deserves a sequel and Nintendo's utter incompetence with the Wii U is guaranteeing it won't. Game deserves a better market like it deserves that sequel.

Couldn't of said it better myself

 

[CosmicQueso]

Banned sites are banned sites for reasons. To those of you quoting sales numbers from said banned sites, they are really, really off.

 

[StevieP]

Port it to a system that isn't dead in the market and get people interested, because the game deserves a sequel and Nintendo's utter incompetence with the Wii U is guaranteeing it won't. Game deserves a better market like it deserves that sequel.

Not that it wouldn't or couldn't happen, but I don't see this game doing gangbusters anywhere, unfortunately.

 

[Huff]

There's no law stopping you from porting a game to other systems after it has already been released on one.

Brilliant! why hasn't Ubisoft thought of this?

 

[EatChildren]

Not that it wouldn't or couldn't happen, but I don't see this game doing gangbusters anywhere, unfortunately.

Neither. It's a niche game. But a niche game on platforms that actually have an installbase worth investing in is, at the very least, better than a platform with no-one. ZombiU is the kind of game that shouldn't have cost too much to make. Fact of the matter is even with it's niche appeal and rough corners, nobody on the Wii U wants it or anything other than Mario at the moment, so any platform is a better opportunity to make money back and open doors to a sequel.

 

[prag16]

Ok and how does this magically solve their horrid relationships with third parties? You really think third parties are going to just line up to support the system?

It would be another failure. Nintendo needs to stick with U and turn things around with great games and competitive pricing.

What might happen with U if Nintendo started charging $40 for digital releases of new games and $50 for physical? Couple that with a new $250 price and a marketing blitz to coincide with the big holiday releases. They shouldn't be throwing in the towel, they should be taking the gloves off!

I agree with this. Even if the Wii U's destiny is to go down in flames, Nintendo needs to go down swinging.

They have system sellers on the horizon. If they support it into 2017 the whole way, they may very well end up with sub-Gamecube sales, but they'll keep much of their base happy, and will show customers and devs that they don't abandon systems.

If they cut bait early, they risk losing a sizable chunk of those that DID remain loyal (customers and devs, maybe indies; after all the work being done to win indies over, would hate to lose them so quickly).

Put out a successor in 2017 and get probably a three year head start on Sony/MSFT. Yes, they squandered the one year head start this time, but three years would be tougher to COMPLETELY botch... right?

 

[CrashPrime]

I agree with this. Even if the Wii U's destiny is to go down in flames, Nintendo needs to go down swinging.

They have system sellers on the horizon. If they support it into 2017 the whole way, they may very well end up with sub-Gamecube sales, but they'll keep much of their base happy, and will show customers and devs that they don't abandon systems.

If they cut bait early, they risk losing a sizable chunk of those that DID remain loyal (customers and devs, maybe indies; after all the work being done to win indies over, would hate to lose them so quickly).

Put out a successor in 2017 and get probably a three year head start on Sony/MSFT. Yes, they squandered the one year head start this time, but three years would be tougher to COMPLETELY botch... right?

2017 and you'll get a crippled PS4/XboxOne with weird architecture and a strange gimmick nobody wants. It's the Nintendo way.

 

[QaaQer]

Gamepad amazes people if you take it to their home, set it up, and show them what it can do. I've "sold" three Wii U consoles doing this.

Of course, Nintendo can't take a console to everyone's home, so they're basically screwed LOL

Anyone else get an image of Mormon-type door-knocking?

 

[JordanLMiller]

Brilliant! why hasn't Ubisoft thought of this?

The great thing about it is Ubisoft does know how to launch games at different times on different systems! They had no problem shipping Just Dance 4, Assassin's Creed III, and Marvel Avengers late on Wii U without delaying those games to make sure all versions launched on the same day. Btw, those delays would've only been about a month, not half a year.

 

[prag16]

2017 and you'll get a crippled PS4/XboxOne with weird architecture and a strange gimmick nobody wants. It's the Nintendo way.

Well, I doubt they'd make the same mistake twice. But stranger things have happened. I guess there's always the chance that they figure, "Hey, the first three times we went 'underpowered with a gimmick' we dominated the competition. Just because it didn't work the fourth time doesn't mean we shouldnt' do it a fifth time." :/

ZombiU is the kind of game that shouldn't have cost too much to make.

That's what really gets me. I thought this looked like a $5mm game based on the unspectacular production value among other things. I know the chartz numbers are probably too high, but even assuming something much more conservative like 250k worldwide, this should have easily been in the black.

So the only reasonable conclusion is that the game must have actually cost north of $10 million, which sounds ridiculously high. Maybe the time it spent as a Rabbids game then Killer Freaks blew a big chunk of the budget? Who knows.

Even so I doubt Ubisoft has lost money overall on the Wii U if the "1 million euros for ports" line was true. If that's the case AC3 and Just Dance are likely to have made back what ZombiU lost at the least. But even if they're breaking even... their games for the rest of 2013 are gonna have to do better than that in order to keep them from jumping ship, in all likelihood.

I'll be there day one for Watch_Dogs, and will buy AC4 as soon as I can get it for $30 or so. We'll see.

 

[Amir0x]

Neither. It's a niche game. But a niche game on platforms that actually have an installbase worth investing in is, at the very least, better than a platform with no-one. ZombiU is the kind of game that shouldn't have cost too much to make. Fact of the matter is even with it's niche appeal and rough corners, nobody on the Wii U wants it or anything other than Mario at the moment, so any platform is a better opportunity to make money back and open doors to a sequel.

Maybe we'll get a port to PSN and XBL with Smart Glass/Vita Functionality, unless Nintendo has some sort of deal in place with Zombie U (dunno)

Personally ZombieU was a good foundation, but it still had a ways to go before I would consider it a good game. So in a way it is sad to see it won't be given a chance to be developed into a series that isn't rushing to meet launch deadlines and isn't being put on a platform with no life in it.

 

[EatChildren]

Even so I doubt Ubisoft has lost money overall on the Wii U if the "1 million euros for ports" line was true. If that's the case AC3 and Just Dance are likely to have made back what ZombiU lost at the least. But even if they're breaking even... their games for the rest of 2013 are gonna have to do better than that in order to keep them from jumping ship, in all likelihood.

Right, but this doesn't really matter when attachment rates are so low. Attachment rates really are the big thing dictating software for more or less every system on the market; the probability that your game will be eaten up by X% of people who own the system.

That's pretty much the big deciding factor for publishers bailing on Nintendo's platforms. People scoff at the notion that people buy Nintendo platforms for Nintendo games, but when 80%+ of the system's installbase are buying Super Mario, and the next best percentage is like 10% buying your third party game...that sends a damn strong message.

Like Harker said, Nintendo's job isn't just to get systems out there, it's to convince people to buy the system for the system itself and not just Mario/Zelda/Kart/whatever. Otherwise you end up with people buying it exclusively for Mario Kart or Super Mario, and even if it sells a shit-ton those new customers still aren't buying anything else. A system that has sold 2 million units with everybody only buying Mario Kart, and a system that has sold 20 million units with people still only buying Mario Kart, aren't that much different when it comes third parties.

Personally ZombieU was a good foundation, but it still had a ways to go before I would consider it a good game. So in a way it is sad to see it won't be given a chance to be developed into a series that isn't rushing to meet launch deadlines and isn't being put on a platform with no life in it.

I loved it a lot more than I probably should, but I think a lot of that had to do with the fact it embodies the concept of "survival horror" significantly more than a vast majority of games in...years. It's an actual "survival horror", a game where survival is integral to the design, not just a gimmick or trope of the atmosphere.

And for that reason I think it's also the kind of game that deserves a sequel. The concept is unique, and important to the genre. It needs to be nurtured as something bigger, not rushed for launch, to see where the potential can go.

Sadly it does not look like we'll get that.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

I'm more pissed this caused a delay for rayman.

 

[QaaQer]

Well, I doubt they'd make the same mistake twice. But stranger things have happened. I guess there's always the chance that they figure, "Hey, the first three times we went 'underpowered with a gimmick' we dominated the competition. Just because it didn't work the fourth time doesn't mean we shouldnt' do it a fifth time." :/



That's what really gets me. I thought this looked like a $5mm game based on the unspectacular production value among other things. I know the chartz numbers are probably too high, but even assuming something much more conservative like 250k worldwide, this should have easily been in the black.

So the only reasonable conclusion is that the game must have actually cost north of $10 million, which sounds ridiculously high. Maybe the time it spent as a Rabbids game then Killer Freaks blew a big chunk of the budget? Who knows.

Even so I doubt Ubisoft has lost money overall on the Wii U if the "1 million euros for ports" line was true. If that's the case AC3 and Just Dance are likely to have made back what ZombiU lost at the least. But even if they're breaking even... their games for the rest of 2013 are gonna have to do better than that in order to keep them from jumping ship, in all likelihood.

I'll be there day one for Watch_Dogs, and will buy AC4 as soon as I can get it for $30 or so. We'll see.

Cannot stop the tide from coming, John Harker.

 

[hoos30]

There's no law stopping you from porting a game to other systems after it has already been released on one.

There's no law but that's stupid business.

Why market the same game twice? Why give 'sloppy seconds' to the larger share of your target audience?

No one really has to explain this, right?

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Nintendo burned any chance with the hardcore when they went super casual with the Wii.

It paid off for them big time. The casual market ate it up and sold like gangbusters. But in the process, destroyed any chance they had courting hardcore players to their system to play the COD's and BF, and whatever.That is dead. They will never get those people back, not as long as PS and Xbox live.

So Nintendo stupidly made a box that was supposed to be a jack of all trades. Appeal to both sides. Except they forgot that the hardcore doesn't give a flying fuck about Nintendo anymore. It died with the Wii. No amount of Bayonetta's or Armored Editions is going to bring them back.

So now they have the casuals. But the problem with casuals are that they are a fickle bunch. They have no brand loyalty. They don't give a shit. I would bet money that 2/3 of the people that bought the Wii have no idea about the WiiU. They will not buy a system based on name alone. So now Nintendo is stuck in a fucked up position. They have no one. The hard core have abandoned it. The casuals either don't know about it, think its an add-on, or simply don't see the appeal. The only people Nintendo have left are the Nintendo hardcore, and judging by sales, even they are waiting.

So I'm frankly not surprised that ZombieU did not do well.

 

[Josman]

Bayonetta 2 is going to bomb so f"n hard, such a shame really, what the fuck was Nintendo thinking with this console? An expensive console, useless tablet controller, weak hardware with no software, no third party support, archaic online network, 32gbs of memory.. They deserve all of this, it pains me to see Nintendo like this but if they don't get rid of the incompetent executives behind this, then I'll fear for Nintendo's gaming future.

 

[JordanLMiller]

There's no law but that's stupid business.

Why market the same game twice? Why give 'sloppy seconds' to the larger share of your target audience?

No one really has to explain this, right?

How much do you think the marketing for rayman costs? How many commercials did you see for rayman origins? BTW rayman origins also got late ports to vita, PC, and 3ds.

 

[John Harker]

Cannot stop the tide from coming, John Harker.

I should just retire

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Bayonetta 2 is going to bomb so f"n hard, such a shame really, what the fuck was Nintendo thinking with this console? An expensive console, useless tablet controller, weak hardware with no software, no third party support, archaic online network, 32gbs of memory.. They deserve all of this, it pains me to see Nintendo like this but if they don't get rid of the incompetent executives behind this, then I'll fear for Nintendo's gaming future.

This is actually just fine, they let you use external hard drives without any hassle at all (which are much cheaper than proprietary garbage)

 

[matm666]

Reggie: "Want to make a profit on Wii U? Make better games"

 

[SenatorBot]

Bayonetta 2 is going to bomb so f"n hard, such a shame really, what the fuck was Nintendo thinking with this console?

I feel sad for Platinum because they said recently in an interview they want their game sto sell millions. Having W101 and Bayonetta 2 in their resumes won't look good when they will have to shop for another publisher in the future.

I doubt after those two game's performance on the Wii U will they want to work with Nintendo again.

 

[tino]

Nintendo's next console will be a 720p portable machine that can also connect to your TV and play as a home console. There will be no stand alone home console.

There will be no Nintendo game on other platforms.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yea. It amazes me how people are presented with actual facts, and instead of discussing around it, they just fall back on the same tired arguments over and over.

People still focusing on the names of the games, their budgets, their reviews, their boxarts. These are not the larger issue. ZombiU didn't fail to hit expectations due to any of this. As other people pointed out, many people who purchased the game, really like the game. The larger issue is that Nintendo put out a console that has sold roughly 1.1MM units NA in 9 months and has one Mario game with a 70% attach rate... and the next highest game, regardless of publisher, is 150k.

Nearly all of those users only want Mario. People bought the Wii because they wanted the Wii. They bought a ton of games with it because they were sold on the concept of what it did for them. The features excited them. They wanted to experience a lot of what it had to offer, at least for awhile. Publishers saw launch attach rates of 30%. You want that. You target that. You'll take 10% and 10% is good too... when the system itself has a ton of hardware momentum. Wii U doesn't. So you want 30%. Whose even getting 10% now? These are just rough targets and obviously not everyone builds their financing to these models, but attach rate is the best number to really look at here.

Nintendo needs to sell people on the Wii U tablet aggressively and get people to understand why the console itself is something they need. Right now, people bought the Wii U for Mario. You're fighting for scraps with around 300k users who are willing to buy more than just Mario. I really want them to succeed... I want everyone to, given I want the industry to grow, and someone has to target females and bring younger demo into the industry at higher price points than Apple and Android do, but the reason I probably spend more post-energy on Nintendo related things is because they really are in a bad spot, and they have to start repositinoing and spending and I'd love to see that happen asap.

Give us Red Steel 2 then if you love us so much.

Maybe we'll get a port to PSN and XBL with Smart Glass/Vita Functionality, unless Nintendo has some sort of deal in place with Zombie U (dunno)

Personally ZombieU was a good foundation, but it still had a ways to go before I would consider it a good game. So in a way it is sad to see it won't be given a chance to be developed into a series that isn't rushing to meet launch deadlines and isn't being put on a platform with no life in it.

I don't think the Wiiu functionality is critical. I think it's largely bad actually. The minimap is nice but dragging icons around ("inventory management") on that resistive screen is bad, using the wiipad to aim the turrets is bad, using the wiipad to have to stop and scan every room is bad, etc. I'd prefer it without that stuff.

 

[Anticitizen One]

I called that from a mile away. Basically Red Steel part 2

 

[kuroshiki]

This is actually just fine, they let you use external hard drives without any hassle at all (which are much cheaper than proprietary garbage)

Or just give regular 500GB HDD, just like its competitors are doing. That's not fine at all. Consumers have to come up with additional space for themselves and that's fine?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Or just give regular 500GB HDD, just like its competitors are doing. That's not fine at all. Consumers have to come up with additional space for themselves and that's fine?

Um, when it's cheaper, yeah, I'd say that's pretty good

(You also don't have to, for some anything more than 32GB is useless)

 

[Amir0x]

Give us Red Steel 2 then if you love us so much.




I don't think the Wiiu functionality is critical. I think it's largely bad actually. The minimap is nice but dragging icons around ("inventory management") on that resistive screen is bad, using the wiipad to aim the turrets is bad, using the wiipad to have to stop and scan every room is bad, etc. I'd prefer it without that stuff.

I do think it's rather neat the way you manage inventory, and of course the issues with dragging you have can be mitigated by simply superior implementation on Vita or SmartGlass.

That said, you know I won't disagree with you. I can do without the gimmicks myself. But that one feature I wouldn't mind returning.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

The U versions of Watch_Dogs and AC4 are going to be the final test for Ubi. If both flop it's over.

 

[EatChildren]

I called that from a mile away. Basically Red Steel part 2

Err, no, you called nothing. Red Steel was arguably an example of the opposite: a launch title selling decently relative to platform attachment rates, because people were happy to buy all kinds of software for the Wii in the first couple of years. ZombiU is the opposite, or more relatable to Red Steel 2; attachment rates are low as fuck and nobody is buying software except for Mario, irrespective of what it is, how good it plays, and who it's from.

 

[metalslimer]

The U versions of Watch_Dogs and AC4 are going to be the final test for Ubi. If both flop it's over.

I'd say if Rayman Legends does stunningly well they might continue to keep porting the sequels to Wii U

 

[kuroshiki]

Um, when it's cheaper, yeah, I'd say that's pretty good

(You also don't have to, for some anything more than 32GB is useless)

32 gb is not useless, but it's far from practical.

It's cheaper because it comes with inferior tech. The performance gap between PS4 and WiiU is so huge, it's not even funny. For just $50 cheaper than PS4, nintendo better come up with some really good excuse why it doesn't have something that opponents have.

Nintendo at least could give consumers less hassle by giving them larger storage. It's just giving me a vibe that they are totally not ready for digital transaction, if at all.

(come to think of it it doesn't have USB3.0. nevermind. wtf nintendo)

 

[SmokedMeat]

This is actually just fine, they let you use external hard drives without any hassle at all (which are much cheaper than proprietary garbage)

It's fine because there's barely anything to put on it. The system has been out for 7 months and there's only around 7 demos to play! DLC is practically nonexistent. Meanwhile the competition is including a 250-500GB HDD for less money and there's gobs of stuff to fill them up with.

 

[FStop7]

Zombii U was a really novel game and a good premise. But it should have come out on other platforms.

 

[Vinci]

I rather enjoy the GamePad, but the system is a horrid product. Nintendo needs to go the route of the hybrid and get all their developers and titles on a single platform. They're gonna be on their own for a while, it seems.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

32 gb is not useless, but it's far from practical.

It's cheaper because it comes with inferior tech. The performance gap between PS4 and WiiU is so huge, it's not even funny. For just $50 cheaper than PS4, nintendo better come up with some really good excuse why it doesn't have something that opponents have.

Nintendo at least could give consumers less hassle by giving them larger storage. It's just giving me a vibe that they are totally not ready for digital transaction, if at all.

(come to think of it it doesn't have USB3.0. nevermind. wtf nintendo)

Well, it does need a price cut but it's not really $50 cheaper considering the Deluxe comes with a game while the baseline PS4 does not.

I'll always prefer being able to buy my own hard drive at whatever size I need at a cheaper price.

It's fine because there's barely anything to put on it. The system has been out for 7 months and there's only around 7 demos to play! DLC is practically nonexistent. Meanwhile the competition is including a 250-500GB HDD for less money and there's gobs of stuff to fill them up with.

Ha good zinger lol)! But actually what are external hard drives.

 

[metalslimer]

32 gb is not useless, but it's far from practical.

It's cheaper because it comes with inferior tech. The performance gap between PS4 and WiiU is so huge, it's not even funny. For just $50 cheaper than PS4, nintendo better come up with some really good excuse why it doesn't have something that opponents have.

Nintendo at least could give consumers less hassle by giving them larger storage. It's just giving me a vibe that they are totally not ready for digital transaction, if at all.

(come to think of it it doesn't have USB3.0. nevermind. wtf nintendo)

Wii U 350 vs PS4 399 is a complete joke. Hopefully we see a price reduction of the deluxe to 249.

 

[cube444]

Wii U 350 vs PS4 399 is a complete joke. Hopefully we see a price reduction of the deluxe to 249.

I can see $299. Would love to see it at that price with NSMBU packed in but I doubt that.

 

[Amir0x]

I think on top of reducing the price to at least $299 for one SKU only, they really need to increase that HDD space. 32GB in this day and age is fucking absurd and directly inhibits the potential growth of their online space. Even though people can expand with external drives, devs cannot rely on that.

 

[kuroshiki]

Well, it does need a price cut but it's not really $50 cheaper considering the Deluxe comes with a game while the baseline PS4 does not.

I'll always prefer being able to buy my own hard drive at whatever size I need at a cheaper price.
.

Dude... Do you work for nintendo or something. I mean, seriously. Nintendo land is just a collection of mini games, and clearly it didn't attract people at all. If that's indication every PS4 comes with mini game called 'asobi' or whatever that thing is (which is trojan horse to make people buy eyetoy, but free game is free, right?)

Defending your favorite company is one thing, but there should be a limit to that, you know.

Also, for other consoles you can also put more HDD space (with WAY faster transfer rate since they have USB 3.0, not some 10 year old tech like 2.0), you are making it sounds like other consoles don't have that option. Hell, if you are rich enough you can put 512 GB SATA3 SSD into PS4.

 

[Vibranium]

Port it Yves, and I'll pick it up for PC at around $40. I hope Ubi does it eventually, but they probably want to see how Rayman Legends does first.

 

[Hypron]

I didn't get the game because even though I did appreciate the way it handled horror, I did not like the controls. They just felt too heavy and clunky for my liking. I can deal with clunky controls for third person games, but I just can't do it for first person ones: they really hamper my enjoyment of a game.

 

[Deprive]

If those Ubi games in the fall do terrible on the Wii U, then that will be it for any Ubi support. Hell that will probably be it for any 3rd party support for the platform.

If Nintendo plan on making another console after this, they have some hard questions their going to have to ask themselves. Because right now I can not see another Nintendo console happening. :/

 

[Wickerbasket]

I just don't understand how Wii U software sales can be so low. What exactly are all those owners playing?

 

[Hypron]

I just don't understand how Wii U software sales can be so low. What exactly are all those owners playing?

NSMBU I suppose.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Dude... Do you work for nintendo or something. I mean, seriously. Nintendo land is just a collection of mini games, and clearly it didn't attract people at all. If that's indication every PS4 comes with mini game called 'asobi' or whatever that thing is (which is trojan horse to make people buy eyetoy, but free game is free, right?)

Defending your favorite company is one thing, but there should be a limit to that, you know.

Also, for other consoles you can also put more HDD space (with WAY faster transfer rate since they have USB 3.0, not some 10 year old tech like 2.0), you are making it sounds like other consoles don't have that option. Hell, if you are rich enough you can put 512 GB SATA3 SSD into PS4.

Is it not a game (and evidently one people want, considering it's the only reason to get the Deluxe bundle besides the color black, 24 more GB, and pieces of plastic)? Whether or not you enjoy it is irrelevant. I'm not sure how exactly it's comparable to whatever game you're talking about anyway.

That's good you can use external hard drives on the XBone and PS4 (it should be a standard). I'm not sure what that has to do with my argument.

 

[Aquamarine]

NSMBU I suppose.

Dat 70% NSMBU attach rate.