Suburban_Nooblet
Banned
What do you guys think these kids parents think of this?
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Fraternity chanting the n-word
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Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
"Why'd you let yourself get filmed"
MaddenNFL64
Member
Who cares about affecting them positively? Fuck em. Let them wallow in their ignorance, and make them regret their words every time. Playing patty cake with bigots is pointless.
I'm not saying just say aww shucks. I am saying try to rehabilitate them instead of cutting then loose and just making them even more racist but quiet about it. If you can even just fix a couple of these idiots and get rid of the others it's at least worth a try right? Or are we all fucked and racism is inherent and can't be fixed. Again I'm not saying let them off about free just try to rehab first before completely expelling them. If there is no progress then cut them loose. They are still going to be known as bigots and idiots but maybe some of the could become good people.
Atraveller
Banned
At best, expelling the identified will serve as a warning. I think those who were present but didn't stop it, or report the incident, should be punished accordingly.
WayneMorse
Banned
Probably instilled racist values in them?
Like I said earlier, these kids are bound for corporate America, they will become our future CEOs. politicians and law enforcement. The frat will just instill in them sociopathic values through teaching them how to rape women and unapologetic racism and classism.
Fuck Greek life, it's a detrimental culture to the campus.
Suburban_Nooblet
Banned
Probably a spot on answer.
Eh, we're talking about the University of Oklahoma, not Harvard or Princeton!
I do agree though, fraternity "men" are the type to end up in corporate America.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Since when did rule of law become based on hurt feelings?
These guys were racist assholes, fine. The fraternity was closed down and they'll suffer the consequences socially. But they shouldn't be expelled from school or even arrested (lol) just for being assholes. They were over the top, sure, But the main difference between them and the thousands of other racist assholes of all races in college was that they got caught. That's basically what society is becoming: A competition to see if you don't get caught. Everyone's an asshole, but being caught being an asshole (or being an asshole in the wrong context) ruins your life. I mean, there's a sub-community on GAF that features regular, blatant racism, gets away with it, and then has posters lecture others on how bad racism is.
These guys were racist assholes, fine. The fraternity was closed down and they'll suffer the consequences socially. But they shouldn't be expelled from school or even arrested (lol) just for being assholes. They were over the top, sure, But the main difference between them and the thousands of other racist assholes of all races in college was that they got caught. That's basically what society is becoming: A competition to see if you don't get caught. Everyone's an asshole, but being caught being an asshole (or being an asshole in the wrong context) ruins your life. I mean, there's a sub-community on GAF that features regular, blatant racism, gets away with it, and then has posters lecture others on how bad racism is.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Which one would that be, Admiral
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
All I'm saying is I've seen some shifty stuff from the Figure GAF thread. The debates about racism in collectable figures can be pretty intense.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Necromanti
Member
Isn't that up to the university's administration if there happened to be a legitimate breach of their code of conduct and they ended up deeming it as such? (I don't know anything about the University of Oklahoma, though.)
This pretends the sole reason these people indulged in racism and espoused views supporting institutional racism was because they were in a frat, when it's also entirely possible they were racist and supporters of institutional racism before they joined the frat (maybe that's even why they joined this frat, given we now how evidence this song isn't exactly a secret or isolated incident with SAE). Nor does shutting down the chapter preclude these people from simply joining another frat, or another chapter of the same frat, and continuing to be racists after the chapter is closed.
You're basically making every excuse under the sun for these guys, and assuming that because they or the students to follow can no longer join this particular SAE chapter, you've stopped the racist culture from propagating when you've done no such thing. You're also basically saying their racism isn't really their fault because it's caused by the frat and mob mentality, even though they're adults free to associate or not associate with racists. You're also making the error of pretending mob mentality is any sort defence for poor behaviour, when it's only ever used as a means for explaining poor behaviour, not excusing it.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
I think you should take life less seriously if you think posting on a videogame message board is ever defined as "bravery."
Ultimately it is up to the administration, but I'm arguing that they don't need to be expelled from school simply for being assholes. They're assholes, sure, but their social consequences will be bad enough as punishment.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
If you truly believe these methods are soft and have no effect then you do not understand rehabilitation and education. This is a fundamental ignorance on your part.
Do you think throwing people in jail without attempting rehabilitation and offering education is a good solution to a lot of crime? If you agree then you're more aligned with my line of thought than you think. If you disagree then you have a warped sense of rehabilitation and education. I know you're not advocating they be thrown in jail, this is just a parallel with more dangerous acts.
Necromanti
Member
The university might also do so for their own best interest if people get angry enough. But if it turns out at all like it did for that girl from UCLA (who uploaded the YT video denigrating the Japanese people making phone calls in the library during the tsunami), they'll end up leaving on their own accord after enough harassment, anyway.
boiled goose
good with gravy
In this case I think the University can expe them because the language was threatening and excluding.they were nit just using the n word or stating their views.
Their song had implications . Violation of code of conduct for sure.
If the University deem these people not worthy of their teaching because of their unethical behavior I don't really see how that's unfair.
Also not all assholes are created equals.
I mean there's a difference between my dog poops and this
What I mean is that there's "cutting the line at the cafeteria" assholes and the "kick disabled people for fun" assholes, that doesn't make them equal.
That's what reddit is for, right?
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Can't say I use Reddit much. I prefer Tumblr.
AwakenedCloud
Member
Add "Hmm, It's kind of catchy."to the front and that's probably their full range of thoughts on the matter.
Do you also complain about GAF on Tumblr?
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Please stop disrupting the thread with personal attacks and false accusations. We're trying to discuss a serious issue here.
Isn't that what you tried to do when you complained about a sub-community here, but then you were too much of a coward to actually name it?
Let's not pretend like you actually think this is a serious issue.
Squirrel Killer
Member
The whole reason this has devolved in to a First Amendment discussion is because, being a government-related body, expulsion may not be within the university's scope of punishment. If the perpetrators are eventually not expelled, there will be people ripping the university for going soft on them even though such a punishment might never have been legal in the first place.
I was a bit surprised at that too, but it seems the chapter house is actually owned by the university and the university is getting the displaced students alternative housing.
Lol nice response.
Big Baybee
Member
Didn't you just attack the black culture thread? Stop beating around the bush. My god.
Threatening to murder people in a chant is beyond what I would consider to be beyond the realm of protected speech. Is it considered protected because it's non-specific? So if I chant "let's murder black people" it's cool, but if I chant "let's murder Jeff the black guy from study hall" that's over the line? Just trying to understand the subtleties of being a racist piece of shit in today's complex world.
They can't. Once you're initiated, you can't join another fraternity.
And I doubt the pledges of the "racist frat" would be welcome in any others.
I'm sure there's an all black frat that would love to let them in the door.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
There's a Road Trip joke in here somewhere.
way more
Member
Nah. They just finish school at get jobs running their fathers car dealership.
Angelus Errare
Banned
She just learned a new word I see.
Dreams-Visions
Member
then we'll have to hope that they're shamed into leaving on their own accord rather than being campus famous for all the wrong reasons.
adamsappel
Member
Do black fraternities get lumped in with the others in anti-Greek sentiments?
The sad part is this is an institutional chant. Its been around for a long time, and if you could look inside many people's brains in this country, you'd be shocked at how little has changed.
Of course, its barely been half a century, since all of that stuff was legally advocated at the highest offices in the country
Of course, its barely been half a century, since all of that stuff was legally advocated at the highest offices in the country
Dreams-Visions
Member
Usually we do not, no. We usually end up managing many (or most) of the campus events in our communities, from social to entertainment to service...so we tend to be very well regarded. Unless the subject matter turns to hazing, we're rarely a topic of discussion. Sometimes people dislike us because the time commitment required for all the meetings, service and social events tends to pull people away from their established circle of friends. Just not enough hours in the day to hang out with everyone and the commitment has to be with the frat/sorority. That's the life commitment.
This is absolute gold.
What a shitstain of a chapter.
Unfortunately racism is quite rampant in Greek society, especially in the South.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Another ignorant question from a Non-US-citizen.
What is greek-society when it comes to fraternities?
What is greek-society when it comes to fraternities?
The amount of blowups brought to light has been ridiculous. Holy fuck, man.
Someone very early in the thread was concerned that the influence of SAE alumni would lead to this not getting any real media attention. I now see that he was justified in his concern. They've been getting away with shit for years.
Vermillion
Banned
I'm not excusing anything. The fact is that fraternities tend to foster a certain group mentality. In another frat, they could be the same racist person, sure. But ideally that other frat wouldn't accept that behavior. This in turn stifles that sort of thought.
Ever heard the saying (and I'm paraphrasing) "show me a man's friends and I can tell you who they are?" That is very, very true. Sure, they could all just be completely racist to begin with. But that behavior was being facilitated by the people that they were around in that fraternity. In some frats, the group mentality is used for good - community service, social justice, etc. In this particular case, it was toxic. That's the reasoning for shutting down the frat. How these people behave as individuals afterwards is another matter. Hopefully that involves them not perpetuating racism.
Dreams-Visions
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternities_and_sororities_in_North_America
this looks like everything you should want to know.
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