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Eurogamer: Independently confirms source that the PS4.5 is real, referred as PS 4K

bitbydeath

Gold Member
Summary for those that can't watch?

Cost: $400.
Release: This holiday.
Polaris to be used.
1 high profile game being made directly for it. (they speculated God of War)
4K of older games to be upscaled, they don't expect native 4K due to the low price tag.
PSVR to gain framerate boost and not resolution boost due to the headset displaying 1080p.
More CPUs.

Think that was most of it, no idea if they have a good record for this sort of thing though.
 

injurai

Banned
So it sounds like to me this will be more worthwhile to own if you also have a 4K display. It doesn't sound like it would benefit 1080p displays much. Since it won't be super-sampling.
 

onQ123

Member
Uh, the xbox1 apu is bigger than the ps4apu, due to esram space on the die.


One is a GPU that's going in a Console upgrade that will be up-rendering to 4K & the other is a GPU that will be going into small Windows 10 devices like Surface Pro , STBs , Laptops & Hololens.

Microsoft is about to put Xbox One/UWP games on devices that don't need a fan to cool it off.
 

onQ123

Member
Cost: $400.
Release: This holiday.
Polaris to be used.
1 high profile game being made directly for it. (they speculated God of War)
4K of older games to be upscaled, they don't expect native 4K due to the low price tag.
PSVR to gain framerate boost and not resolution boost due to the headset displaying 1080p.
More CPUs.

Think that was most of it, no idea if they have a good record for this sort of thing though.

It's not upscaled it's uprendered
 

Dance Inferno

Unconfirmed Member
Upscaling is that the console rendering the image at 1080p and then using a scaling algorithm to scale it to 4K. Uprendering is rendering the lower resolution assets directly into 4K.
Uprendering is like what they're doing with the PS2/PS4 classics.

So uprendering is better than upscaling?
 

platina

Member
And then there's reprojection, can you tell the difference between these screens? 2 are native 1080p30fps and the other 2 are reprojected to 1080p60fps.

C53Iaz.png

qGmAWC.png

lAAQip.png

tTYev1.png


Using this method offers +50% graphical increase to any game. I believe Killzone: SF was the first game to use temporal reprojection while the technique was in it's infancy, there might be even better algorithms now. It's one way to increase the resolution.
 

Ozium

Member
Kotaku said this is about games. Thats a done deal at this point and shouldn't really be up for debate anymore. They have the strongest track record in the entire industry over the past few years.

I'm sure media and the rest will be involved and nice additions, but if Kotaku said its about games, its about games.

Kotaku's word more insightful than the actual technology that exists? I don't think so.
 
PSVR will still be competing with those things. "Do I buy a $400 VR headset, or put that money towards a new console?(NX, XB1+, PS4K)" is what a lot of people will be asking themselves.

But they aren't the same thing, nor the same class of device. A display is not a console.
 

McHuj

Member
Cost: $400.
Release: This holiday.
Polaris to be used.
1 high profile game being made directly for it. (they speculated God of War)
4K of older games to be upscaled, they don't expect native 4K due to the low price tag.
PSVR to gain framerate boost and not resolution boost due to the headset displaying 1080p.
More CPUs.

Think that was most of it, no idea if they have a good record for this sort of thing though.


Thanks. I'm surprised that Sony has not addressed this yet.
 
Cost: $400.
Release: This holiday.
Polaris to be used.
1 high profile game being made directly for it. (they speculated God of War)
4K of older games to be upscaled, they don't expect native 4K due to the low price tag.
PSVR to gain framerate boost and not resolution boost due to the headset displaying 1080p.
More CPUs.

Think that was most of it, no idea if they have a good record for this sort of thing though.

This video channel make speculation a lot. They just make thing up sometime. I see plenty of past video to realise this. It is always speculation they make on everything.
 

Nikodemos

Member
Cost: $400.
Release: This holiday.
Polaris to be used.
1 high profile game being made directly for it. (they speculated God of War)
4K of older games to be upscaled, they don't expect native 4K due to the low price tag.
PSVR to gain framerate boost and not resolution boost due to the headset displaying 1080p.
More CPUs.

Think that was most of it, no idea if they have a good record for this sort of thing though.

I don't buy it.

From what we know so far, Polaris is a 14nm part. Unless they've managed the impossible and shrunk Puma+ down to 14nm (and there has been no info thus far of this) there's no way they could put a 14nm and a 28nm part on the same die. And I don't see how they could put Zen cores in. They're a lot bigger than the Cat family (they're full-size desktop cores, whereas Cats are really small).
 

dr_rus

Member
Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?

jtbLnTp.png

Polaris is most definitely NOT a PS4 GPU @14nm and 2X CUs. PS4 GPU is built on GCN2 while Polaris will use GCN4. There are quite a lot of differences between them as this is basically two generations gap.

Why is AMD making a DX11 GPU in 2016? Because a modern GPU must support DX11 and it's most probable that Sisoft tool simply cannot detect API support properly.

Ellesmere is Polaris 10 & Baffin is Polaris 11 now guess who would be the 2 major OEMs?

Sony & Microsoft
VoUh3pN.png

Nor Sony neither Microsoft are using OEM model for their console production. They license the IPs and produce the chips themselves. AMD can be contracted to design the chips but they won't produce them and they can't supply the consoles as an OEM.

You're reading too much into some marketing slides from AMD. They mention their console wins in every press release these days. This doesn't mean much really.
 

El_Chino

Member
Polaris is most definitely NOT a PS4 GPU @14nm and 2X CUs. PS4 GPU is built on GCN2 while Polaris will use GCN4. There are quite a lot of differences between them as this is basically two generations gap.

Why is AMD making a DX11 GPU in 2016? Because a modern GPU must support DX11 and it's most probable that Sisoft tool simply cannot detect API support properly.



Nor Sony neither Microsoft are using OEM model for their console production. They license the IPs and produce the chips themselves. AMD can be contracted to design the chips but they won't produce them and they can't supply the consoles as an OEM.

You're reading too much into some marketing slides from AMD. They mention their console wins in every press release these days. This doesn't mean much really.
800mhz clock speed though?
 
When you render at a resolution, you get the accurate color value of each pixel, as each pixel is rendered seperately. When you upscale, the (usually tv) takes the native resolution and plop pixels in between with color values based on a mix of the sourrounding pixels.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
It is bigger today... with 36CUs PS4 APU will be way bigger.

Um, bigger in power, not size, correct?

Going to 14nm afforded them the space to double the CU's in the empty space with a more power efficient (80w?) part is what I understood.

It's the PS4 GPU at 14nm & now able to fit 36CUs where 18CUs at 28nm used to fit.


I say that Polaris 10 is made from PS4 going 14nm & Polaris 11 is from Xbox One going 14nm & Vega will be the monsters

AMD-Vega-10-Polaris-10-Polaris-11-Feature.jpg

That Vega 10 is going to be insane, especially combined with the HBM2 (1TB/s) memory. Holding off on the PC upgrade until more info comes out on this.

Another sign 10 and 11 could be for the 'upgrade' consoles...

Raja Koduri, Senior Vice President and Chief Architect, Radeon Technologies Group, speaking with Venturebeat.com :
We have two versions of these FinFET GPUs. Both are extremely power efficient. This is Polaris 10 and that’s Polaris 11. In terms of what we’ve done at the high level, it’s our most revolutionary jump in performance so far. We’ve redesigned many blocks in our cores. We’ve redesigned the main processor, a new geometry processor, a completely new fourth-generation Graphics Core Next with a very high increase in performance. We have new multimedia cores, a new display engine.
In summary, it’s fourth generation Graphics Core Next. HDMI 2.0. It supports all the new 4K displays and TVs coming out with just plug and play. It supports display core 4.3, the latest specification. It’s very exciting 4K support. We can do HAVC encode and decode at 4K on this chip. It’ll be great for game streaming at high resolution, which gamers absolutely love. It takes no cycles away from games. You can record gameplay and still have an awesome frame rate. It’ll be available in mid-2016.


Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-unveils-polaris-11-10-gpu/#ixzz441FH7Lkm

Reads just like the PS4K dev briefing and rumors slipping out. If it is not exactly this part, which it probably will not be, it will more than likely be a modified version of said part.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
Wait wait wait so PS4K to use Polaris 10 and the new Xbox to use Polaris 11? Are the specs out for those aside from 36CU for Polaris 10? And for PS4K, are they uprendering with similar methods such as Quantum Break instead of upscaling to 4K?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Wait wait wait so PS4K to use Polaris 10 and the new Xbox to use Polaris 11? Are the specs out for those aside from 36CU for Polaris 10? And for PS4K, are they uprendering with similar methods such as Quantum Break instead of upscaling to 4K?

I think it would be a waste to upscale, since every 4K TV uses an upscaler that pretty much does a fantastic job since the resolution is an equal bump.

Other than 'marketing' it makes no sense. Saw Ratchet & Clank running on a 55" Sony 810c (entry 4K LCD for them), and it looked 'native' even standing only 5 feet away. I was impressed how crisp it was. Not even close to as soft like 720p or even 900p to 1080p upscale (which I can notice even on smaller 23"-27" monitors). Almost had me pull the trigger due to the nice price (just under $1K) versus holding out a little longer for the LG EG9100 (1080p OLED) SlickDeals $1300 range.
 
Wait wait wait so PS4K to use Polaris 10 and the new Xbox to use Polaris 11? Are the specs out for those aside from 36CU for Polaris 10? And for PS4K, are they uprendering with similar methods such as Quantum Break instead of upscaling to 4K?

We have no idea if those will be used in any console. Its just Polaris 10 ticks all of the right boxes to be a candidate for one.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
I think it would be a waste to upscale, since every 4K TV uses an upscaler that pretty much does a fantastic job since the resolution is an equal bump.

Other than 'marketing' it makes no sense. Saw Ratchet & Clank running on a 55" Sony 810c (entry 4K LCD for them), and it looked 'native' even standing only 5 feet away. I was impressed how crisp it was. Not even close to as soft like 720p or even 900p to 1080p upscale (which I can notice even on smaller 23"-27" monitors). Almost had me pull the trigger due to the nice price (just under $1K) versus holding out a little longer for the LG EG9100 (1080p OLED) SlickDeals $1300 range.

Yea so then what's the point of getting a PS4K if you don't have a 4K TV? If they are only using the Polaris 10's extra power to uprender old games to 4K, and of course there will be new non-gaming features like 4K media support...etc.
E3 will be fucking exciting for sure. Almost 2 months away goddamn.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Yea so then what's the point of getting a PS4K if you don't have a 4K TV? If they are only using the Polaris 10's extra power to uprender old games to 4K, and of course there will be new non-gaming features like 4K media support...etc.
E3 will be fucking exciting for sure. Almost 2 months away goddamn.

Well, if it runs games at 1080p/60 that the regular PS4 runs at 1080p/30, that would be substantial enough for performance buyers I suppose. I would probably jump in if the price is right (same as the PS4 is now). I was going to replace my launch unit with the Uncharted PS4, but now I will just buy the controller since I need a second one, and wait for E3, lol. Shame E3 is coming AFTER this Uncharted system.
 

TheSloth

Member
Man, if it turns out to be a more powerful console outright, I will seriously reconsider console gaming altogether.

Still don't think it will though. Option #3 sounds the most likely.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
There's no GPU that was made for PS4 or Xbox One. These two designs are nearly off the shelves from HD7XXX series. Basically GCN 1.0/1.1.

??? Seems custom to the console to me. But you know, semantics circle I am sure.

Graphics processing unit[edit]
GPU specifications[23]
1152 Shaders
72 Texture mapping units
32 Raster operators
18 Compute units
8 Asynchronous compute units (64 queues)
1.84 Teraflops
The graphics processing unit (GPU) is AMD's GPGPU-capable Radeon GCN architecture, consisting of 18 compute units (CUs) for a total of 1,152 cores (64 cores per CU), that produces a theoretical peak performance of 1.84 TFLOPS.[24] This processing power can be used for graphics, physics simulation, or a combination of the two, or any other tasks suited for general purpose compute. It is a customized version of AMD's 7870 GPU, with 2 CUs disabled.[25]

Though based on AMD's GCN architecture, there are several known differentiating factors between the PS4's GPU and current-gen PC graphics cards featuring first-gen GCN architecture:

  • An additional dedicated 20 GB/s bus that bypasses L1 and L2 GPU cache for direct system memory access, reducing synchronisation challenges when performing fine-grain GPGPU compute tasks.
  • L2 cache support for simultaneous graphical and asynchronous compute tasks through the addition of a 'volatile' bit tag, providing control over cache invalidation, reducing the impact of simultaneous graphical and general purpose compute operations.
  • An upgrade from 2 to 64 sources for compute commands, improving compute parallelism and execution priority control. This enables finer-grain control over load-balancing of compute commands including superior game-engine integration.
[26]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_technical_specifications
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
Well, if it runs games at 1080p/60 that the regular PS4 runs at 1080p/30, that would be substantial enough for performance buyers I suppose. I would probably jump in if the price is right (same as the PS4 is now). I was going to replace my launch unit with the Uncharted PS4, but now I will just buy the controller since I need a second one, and wait for E3, lol. Shame E3 is coming AFTER this Uncharted system.
Oh, I thought they were reserving the extra power for just uprendering. In that case, then it's a good upgrade regardless of having a 4K TV.
 

Vena

Member
Its a custom APU but the general architecture is nearly the same. The same situation could happen with Polaris 10. The Polaris 10 may be the standard chip that will go into PCs and PS4.5 or NX or whatever could have a slightly customized version of it.

I still don't see them changing GPU architectures mid-gen, and not by a two to three generational leap.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Its a custom APU but the general architecture is nearly the same. The same situation could happen with Polaris 10. The Polaris 10 may be the standard chip that will go into PCs and PS4.5 or NX or whatever could have a slightly customized version of it.

It is still custom to the consoles, lol. Nobody is arguing it is not the same family, but it is also not a PC part off the shelf and inserted (that is disingenuous). It has some pretty significant custom work done to the APU that a closed box can take advantage of.
 
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