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[yurinka]

Bend has become a shitshow after its previous director's departure. They can't even agree on what game to develop next.

There absolutely nothing that leads to think this is the case. He would have wanted the studio to make Days Gone 2 after Days Gone 1, but in any case he wasn't going to stay there because wanted to work in shorter developments because he'll retire "soon", so he moved to Netherrealm.

The head of the studio wanted to make another new IP after Days Gone, and it's what they started to do until they cancelled it. As happened between Days Gone and the new IP, pretty likely they'll do some support job before starting the full production of their next own main game.

Only Media Molecule is in a bigger disarray.

Again, there is nothing wrong with Media Molecule. All their games have been profitable and each one won many awards, and they started a new game 3 years ago. Which means pretty likely they'll show it in a year or two.

You keep mading out stuff.

 

[longrainwater]

I'm fascinated by the backlash against crunch in the games industry. This happens in a lot of industries, even outside of creatives (people in the movie business definitely have intense work schedules). Public accountants have busy season, investment bankers work intense hours, lawyers, doctors.

I've just never seen it generate this level of controversy outside from gaming.

 

[JayK47]

The activists may have to do some actual work? Surely they will protest. Right after this game of foosball.

 

[Topher]

A shame Neil didn't stick with his TV bollocks for a bit longer, as we might have had a decent game with him not being around.

Bruce and Amy should be running the show. ND was so much better with those.

I wonder if Amy will ever get any credit for TLoU. Neil will happily make out she wasn't involved, but we know she was early on as the sheer difference between the first and second games is massive. UC4 and TLoU 2 screams Neil. And that's a bad thing.

What did Amy have to do with TLOU? That was Neil and Bruce. So was UC4.

 

[xiskza]

I mean what have these lazy fucks been doing if even Intergalactic has been missing deadlines?

 

[Msamy]

T

In terms of productivity yes. In terms of quality no. ND and SSM have more quality.

That was last gen, l didn't see anything from them prove that this gen.

 

[LordCBH]

Clearly ND is desperate to get this out before the PS6 launch so they can remaster it and sell it twice.

 

[Ellis]

What did Amy have to do with TLOU? That was Neil and Bruce. So was UC4.

Amy's UC4 was pretty much scrapped and restarted. Areas still exist and are used for the MP maps, but the entire cast had to re-record due to Neil's changes. Nolan North said it was paced much better before the change.

Bruce mentioned that he would constantly throw ideas at Amy when she was on UC2 and he was writing TloU. A lot of those ideas and story beats were used in the final product. Neil wasn't brought on until slightly later

 

[AJUMP23]

Milestones mean award fees and companies want award fee.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Again, there is nothing wrong with Media Molecule. All their games have been profitable and each one won many awards, and they started a new game 3 years ago. Which means pretty likely they'll show it in a year or two.

You keep mading out stuff.

Where's the info and numbers that says MM is profitable?

 

[deathsaber]

I honestly hope there's been more than a little bit of "OK guys, its been over five years, and you haven't brought forth a single product- not even some brief vids showing gameplay of any kind. Fucking. get. to. work."

MS needs to do the same thing with Bethesda regarding Elder Scrolls/Fallout development. They should be all hands on deck to get these games out. Pull resources from Obsidian, Machine Games, ID software etc. Activision does this amongst all their teams to get a CoD out every freaking year.

These are your "event" games. The lynchpins of your platforms, the reasons you sell consoles, and the products that make all the other smaller projects possible. Stop pussyfooting around with their marquee dev houses/franchises and get them rolling. No reason why there shouldn't be a game every three years in these big franchises coming from these places if you apply the resources.

The same thread exists in the purple message board, and of course its all "Waaah, crunch is horrible and should be illegal!" and it honestly makes me want to puke. If they were putting games out yearly, I'd say yeah, lets chill a little, but Naughty Dog hasn't brought forward anything new the entire generation, so yeah, I'm fine if Sony is holding their feet to the fire.

 

[xiskza]

I think Bend's issue is at least justifiable. Pretty sure they wanted to make Days Gone 2 but got strong armed into the GAAS bullshit.

From what I can tell Bend had internal turmoil, the founders werent woke and the younger crew wasnt that comfortable cause they all are. So they parted ways. The Bend that made DG doesnt exist anymore.

 

[Topher]

Amy's UC4 was pretty much scrapped and restarted. Areas still exist and are used for the MP maps, but the entire cast had to re-record due to Neil's changes. Nolan North said it was paced much better before the change.

Bruce mentioned that he would constantly throw ideas at Amy when she was on UC2 and he was writing TloU. A lot of those ideas and story beats were used in the final product. Neil wasn't brought on until slightly later

Yes, Amy's UC4 was scrapped and Bruce/Neil took over. Don't know about what Nolan North did or didn't say but it is really beside the point

Throwing ideas at someone doesn't mean they warrant being credited. Neil was the creative director for TLOU. Bruce was the game director. The two worked directly together to create both UC4 and TLOU.

 

[xiskza]

... he wrote an entire article about staff doing no more than 60 hours a week for a couple of months for a demo? Either it's a slow news day, or, he knows Intergalactic is struggling and he's laying the ground work for an expose.

He just knows this kind of shit gets clicks and baits certain idiots on retardera to be triggered

 

[Z O N E]

So the game entered development in 2020 and we are about to enter 6 years development time and they still do not have a playable demo?

The game is EXPECTED to release in mid 2027 too...

7 AND A HALF YEARS DEVELOPMENT TIME and that's without possible delays...

This company is so mismanaged it's unreal.

 

[GHG]

So the game entered development in 2020 and we are about to enter 6 years development time and they still do not have a playable demo?

The game is EXPECTED to release in mid 2027 too...

7 AND A HALF YEARS DEVELOPMENT TIME and that's without possible delays...

This company is so mismanaged it's unreal.

Well it's about time they put people to work then isn't it?

 

[Poppinfresh]

So the game entered development in 2020 and we are about to enter 6 years development time and they still do not have a playable demo?

The game is EXPECTED to release in mid 2027 too...

7 AND A HALF YEARS DEVELOPMENT TIME and that's without possible delays...

This company is so mismanaged it's unreal.

There's zero excuse for any game to take more than 5 years to fully develop.

If your game is taking longer than that, then the scope is too large, the project is mismanaged, or your team as a whole is incompetent.

If developers like Falcom, RGG, and others can turn out fun to play, successful games on a regular basis with a fraction of the resources of larger studios, then a studio like ND, Rockstar, or Bethesday should be able to do it too.

 

[xiskza]

There's zero excuse for any game to take more than 5 years to fully develop.

If your game is taking longer than that, then the scope is too large, the project is mismanaged, or your team as a whole is incompetent.

If developers like Falcom, RGG, and others can turn out fun to play, successful games on a regular basis with a fraction of the resources of larger studios, then a studio like ND, Rockstar, or Bethesday should be able to do it too.

I mean its obvious by now ND is terribly mismanaged. There were already signs during the PS4 era, but its pretty evident during this era. The whole studio needs to be cleaned up tbh

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

There's zero excuse for any game to take more than 5 years to fully develop.

If your game is taking longer than that, then the scope is too large, the project is mismanaged, or your team as a whole is incompetent.

If developers like Falcom, RGG, and others can turn out fun to play, successful games on a regular basis with a fraction of the resources of larger studios, then a studio like ND, Rockstar, or Bethesday should be able to do it too.

ND, Rockstar and Bethesda aint getting away with reusing assets from the PS2 era for all their games

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well it's about time they put people to work then isn't it?

And be at the studio 5 days a week.

We have a plethora of proof prior to post covid, that game-dev doesn't do well when it comes to efficiency and cohesion in a WFH environment. We can see when the dip happened in timely polished products on launch day in comparison.

That would be like the movie or music industry trying to do that, it won't ever work as effectively in the creative fields.

 

[John Marston]

When I first joined the studio I work at in 2005 OT culture was very prevalent.
A producer at the time even told me OT was included in the project budget from the start.

But that eventually faded away around 2016.

The last OT I did was maybe 2 years ago when I came in on a saturday for 4 hours.

There's definitely something wrong when you gotta force OT on a demo.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

There's definitely something wrong when you gotta force OT on a demo.

Definately. And that something is "Working" from home.

 

[taylor34]

I know people are ripping on the employees here, but I have a different perspective. I don't have a problem with mandatory overtime, I have a problem with mandatory unpaid overtime that these corporations are constantly pulling. Until 1938, there were no exempt employees. If you worked an hour, you got paid for it. They created exempt for employees where time tracking didn't make sense or was hard to do, like execs, and you got paid on results/work you got done mostly.

At some point employers figured out this loophole and started converting everyone to exempt that they possibly could so they could exploit their employees. Exempt was supposed to be "well I got my work done in 30 hours, I can just go home" or "I have a ton of work I need to work overtime this week to get it done" but that's not how it works in corporate anymore. You're required to be there 40 hours a week whether you have work or not, and basically it's turned so all benefits of being exempt have favored the employer unless you're like a top exec at a company. If you're a low level programmer you basically get nothing. I've been in programming for almost 25 years now and being hourly would have been much better overall for me than exempt 95% of the time. Exempt is just a way to force mandatory overtime with no repercussions for the employer.

So my opinion is that mandatory unpaid overtime is bullcrap. If it's that important, pay for it. If you don't want to do that, then it must not be that important. This forcing unpaid overtime for made up deadlines is just crap unless you're willing to let employees work 30 hours some weeks without punishment (unlikely). If it doesn't go both ways, it's bullcrap.

 

[Z O N E]

Well it's about time they put people to work then isn't it?

I mean, 6 years and they only now decide to put in effort? Too little too late I think. Lol

There's zero excuse for any game to take more than 5 years to fully develop.

If your game is taking longer than that, then the scope is too large, the project is mismanaged, or your team as a whole is incompetent.

If developers like Falcom, RGG, and others can turn out fun to play, successful games on a regular basis with a fraction of the resources of larger studios, then a studio like ND, Rockstar, or Bethesday should be able to do it too.

It is honestly ridiculous.

Like you said, so many studios can pump out games in a shorter amount of time, less manpower AND less money and still be hits.

I give Rockstar a benefit of the doubt because for as long as their games take to make, I don't think there is another studio that can create a world THAT big that has so many tiny details and interactions, but it's still ridiculous. Lol

 

[vpance]

Think about all the time wasted going on Starbucks runs.

 

[TheChumpNation]

That's a lot of time spent making every female character as visually unappealing as possible.

 

[Z O N E]

Definately. And that something is "Working" from home.

Yeah, I said it before and I'm sure people can find it in my post history if they want to, but Work From Home does NOT work for video game development.

I remember years ago during lockdown, there were developers posting pictures on Twitter of themselves playing games during work hours and during zoom meetings.

 

[Sethbacca]

I remember years ago during lockdown, there were developers posting pictures on Twitter of themselves playing games during work hours and during zoom meetings.

That's valuable development research.

 

[John Marston]

Definately. And that something is "Working" from home.

When we were all working from home during Covid I definitely remember some colleagues who were usually very proactive answering my poke on Teams after an hour and a half or 2 hours.

I have no proof but maybe they were doing their laundry or out shopping for groceries

 

[Poppinfresh]

ND, Rockstar and Bethesda aint getting away with reusing assets from the PS2 era for all their games

Neither are RGG and Falcom, but Bethesda, Rockstar, and ND sure are milking their PS3 games for all they are worth instead of actually making new games in a timely manner.

How many re-releases of GTV V, Skyrim, Uncharted, and Last of Us have we had now?

 

[Topher]

When we were all working from home during Covid I definitely remember some colleagues who were usually very proactive answering my poke on Teams after an hour and a half or 2 hours.

I have no proof but maybe they were doing their laundry or out shopping for groceries

When the cat's away the mice will play. Human nature. Some people need in-person supervision. Across the board remote work is never a good idea.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Where's the info and numbers that says MM is profitable?

Where's the info and numbers of ANY 1st party studio (Sony or not) saying that they are profitable?

What a stupid thing to ask when you know those numbers are never released to the public.

 

[mckmas8808]

and still underperformed.

According to who? It made it's budget money back after 3 days!

Every sale after the first week has been pure profit.

 

[Gamer79]

I'm sure you said the same thing about Ghost of Yotei.

That game way undersold expectations . They just fired their CEO . Keep your modern audience slop.

 

[Sethbacca]

According to who? It made it's budget money back after 3 days!

Every sale after the first week has been pure profit.

It can't be a success, because cognitive dissonance.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is goal post moving bullshit based on nothing more than personal feelings.

He's Ragebaiting you. He knows darn well the game didn't bomb. Nor is it being forgotten.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Neither are RGG and Falcom, but Bethesda, Rockstar, and ND sure are milking their PS3 games for all they are worth instead of actually making new games in a timely manner.

How many re-releases of GTV V, Skyrim, Uncharted, and Last of Us have we had now?

You can shit on AAA western devs without glazing the low effort piece meals that falcom comes out with

 

[Poppinfresh]

You can shit on AAA western devs without glazing the low effort piece meals that falcom comes out with

You're the retard that decided to talk about "reusing PS2 assets" when arguably the three biggest Western Devs are all recycling their PS3 games into yet one more re-release instead of releasing new games.

I'd rather have fun, new games with some asset flips than the same stale shit continually re-released in one more "special edition" that we get from Western Devs.

In a few years, we're going to have Skyrim and Last of Us PS6 editions with no new games from ND or Bethesda in sight, and given Rockstar's propensity (you might need to look that word up) for delays, we might not even have a GTA 6 before the next console generation.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You're the retard that decided to talk about "reusing PS2 assets" when arguably the three biggest Western Devs are all recycling their PS3 games into yet one more re-release instead of releasing new games.

I'd rather have fun, new games with some asset flips than the same stale shit continually re-released in one more "special edition" that we get from Western Devs.

In a few years, we're going to have Skyrim and Last of Us PS6 editions with no new games from ND or Bethesda in sight, and given Rockstar's propensity (you might need to look that word up) for delays, we might not even have a GTA 6 before the next console generation.

We're talking about new games, not remasters though, aren't we, dipshit?

i'll take the 6 year dev time over 90% asset reused bloat filled slop that you wierd ass weebs glaze to no end over

 

[Balducci30]

Naughty Dog seems to be a mismanaged studio but nobody in the business is allowed or able to criticize the top guy managing it.

Yeah while I do not fully have sympathy for having to work 60 hr work weeks and going into the office for a limited time given the money they make - several signs here are pointing to the fact that Neil has not managed this project well at all

 

[mckmas8808]

I do wonder how Sony is looking at Naughty Dog at this point. 7 years without a single game release is nuts. And i wouldn't be surprised if they delay to 2028...that would be...8 years which is simply not sustainable. A studio would never be able to have costs like this if it weren't for a parent company like Sony.

I mean, this is Naughty Dog's output:

Game(s)
Math Jam
Ski Crazed
Dream Zone
Keef the Thief
Rings of Power
Way of the Warrior
Crash Bandicoot
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back
Crash Bandicoot: Warped
Crash Team Racing
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy
Jak II
Jak 3
Jak X: Combat Racing
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
The Last of Us
The Last of Us: Left Behind (DLC)
The Last of Us Remastered (Remaster)
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
The Last of Us Part II
Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection (Remaster)
The Last of Us Part I (Remake)
The Last of Us Part II Remastered (Remaster)
Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet

​

This studio was crunching...but at least they were releasing games. Now crunching for a fucking internal demo to Sony, for a game releasing in 2027? They are already missing deadlines for this?
I'll just leave this here. The (eventual) 8 years from TLOU2 to Intergalactic is the same as this:

Game
Crash Bandicoot
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back
Crash Bandicoot: Warped
Crash Team Racing
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy
Jak II
Jak 3

"oh but that was many gens ago".

OK fine:

Game
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
The Last of Us
The Last of Us: Left Behind
The Last of Us Remastered
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy

​

4 full games, one shorter game (Lost Legacy), one DLC and one remaster.

It's pretty clear they probably had almost the entire studio working on Factions 2 and when that didn't pan out, they had almost nothing. What a fucking waste.

Meanwhile Insomniac:

Game
Marvel's Spider-Man
Seedling
Stormland
Strangelets
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Marvel's Spider-Man 2
Marvel's Wolverine

In 8 years they managed to:

- Start the Spiderman IP, release 3 full games from it, start the Wolverine IP, release another Ratchet & Clank game, one Spider-Man remaster and release 3 VR games, all from different new IPs lol. And supposedly they are internally already working on a Venom game already (and god knows what else).

I know Naughty Dog is important to Sony...but they are at a stage that, imagine if this new game flops...i don't see Sony keeping the studio opened. They have no reasons to in fact.

They can't close ND. It'll be Sony's fault and not ND at all. SONY were the ones that wanted more GAAS games. They greenlit TLOU Factions. Had they turned that down Intergalatic would be out by now. And TLOU 3 would probably be coming out in 2027 or 2028. And I know it's easy to crap on ND now because 90% of GAF hates Neil Druckmann. Most of the reasons are due to political stuff (and yall jealous of his success), but I don't see a timeline where Sony would ever close ND.

Intergalactic would have to sell under 1 million copies the 1st month and never pass 2 million units lifetime AND THEN......they'd need a second huge flop.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

WFH is the kind of culture killer that it's very likely that TLOU 3 is in similar shape.

 

[Poppinfresh]

We're talking about new games, not remasters though, aren't we, dipshit?

i'll take the 6 year dev time over 90% asset reused bloat filled slop that you wierd ass weebs glaze to no end over

If you're too dumb to realize that remastering games over and over again uses resources that could be used on new games, I can't really help you.

Have fun playing your woke western slop, if it ever releases. We're done here.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

If you're too dumb to realize that remastering games over and over again uses resources that could be used on new games, I can't really help you.

Have fun playing your woke western slop, if it ever releases. We're done here.

Cutting out remasters isn't going to fix the 5+ year dev times. You know this. Don't be a moron.

Back to jacking off to your sus waifus you go

 

[SlimySnake]

And be at the studio 5 days a week.

We have a plethora of proof prior to post covid, that game-dev doesn't do well when it comes to efficiency and cohesion in a WFH environment. We can see when the dip happened in timely polished products on launch day in comparison.

That would be like the movie or music industry trying to do that, it won't ever work as effectively in the creative fields.

eh, yes its creative but its also mostly software development. there is nothing that cant be done remotely nowadays. especially since most studios have offices in different states and countries. If you can work with a studio remotely, you can have your own internal devs work from home.

Software development on a big fucking floor with dozens of people talking loudly about their creative process is bad for productivity. when im coding, i dont want to be disturbed. i know engineers who literally go on do not disturb on Teams because they dont even want IMs. I refuse to believe that artists and level designers are any different. No one absorbed in their work is happy with open plan work places that resemble wallstreet more than a quiet sanctuary where people can get lost in their art and creative process.

its just dumb corporate policies created by workoholics who hate staying at home and want people to come to work so they can harass them in person. we have dozens of games that shipped during the covid lockdowns between 2020 and 2022 that were shipped on time or with small 3-6 month delays. TLOU2, Ghosts 1, Ratchet, Returnal, It Takes Two, RE8, HFW, Elden Ring, GOW Ragnorak, Forza Horizon 5 all came out during that time when nearly 100% of the workforce was working remotely. All quality games that shipped within 5 years.

Going 5.5 years without getting a vertical slice done is a managerial issue. they miss managed the shit out of this project and are now forcing devs to work extra hours to fix something they shouldve planned better. Again, fucking Neil in the grounded documentary literally said that nothing gets done without his supervision. Well, then why they fuck were you out in canada shooting a tv show no one gives a shit about. why werent YOU in the office after you were promoted to not just Director but Studio CEO.

he fucked it all up. Plain and simple. The talent at ND is literally industry leading. TLOu2 still holds up. Best facial animations, cutscenes, combat, animations, and level design to this day. They didnt just forget to make games all of a sudden because they had to work from home.

 

[mckmas8808]

When the cat's away the mice will play. Human nature. Some people need in-person supervision. Across the board remote work is never a good idea.

Now THIS is plan incorrect!!! In some industries it's WFH is not bad at all.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Software development on a big fucking floor with dozens of people talking loudly about their creative process is bad for productivity.

That's not what happens in these studios. They're actually fairly quiet on the floor.

Again, we can see the quality of day 1 releases pre and post WFH. Especially with higher end tech and graphical pipelines.

It's much simpler to bounce ideas off one another immediately walking into the next department looking at each other in the eye, and not waiting hours for them to get back to you via a Slack or Teams poke. Even when they outsource, those outsourced places are studios with people showing up to them more often than not.

You are the biggest proponent to complain about how they're able to pump out 3 to 5 games a single gen ago, that was when everyone showed up to work, and worked as a in-person team.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

That's not what happens in these studios. They're actually fairly quiet on the floor.

Not true. I have it on authority that if they're not coding they're crotch grabbing

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Where's the info and numbers of ANY 1st party studio (Sony or not) saying that they are profitable?

What a stupid thing to ask when you know those numbers are never released to the public.

Never seen them. That's why I asked Yurinka where his claim comes from.

 

[FalconPunch]

Good. My team has to work 10 hours all the time. Because there's a lot of fucking work to do. And we need our jobs. Welcome to the world.

I have to suffer so others should suffer. Sad way to live one's life.