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[Cumulus]

Powerful Mini-ITX/HTPCs are quite expensive. Even more so than any speculated price of this Xbox 'console'.

PCs are modular.

Couple that with native backwards compatibility and it's clear why it's an appealing alternative.

As I said before already, native backwards compatibility would be a real pro argument, I realize that.

Compared to PCs, it won't have exclusives.

If the infos so far turn out to be true we`re looking at a "premium" device with a price sticker at the very least on par with current pro consoles probably even a lot higher. You are not getting exclusives for an installation base as small as such a target audience would allow for, much less from a company that went full 3rd party with their lreleases now.

Compared to other consoles aimed squarely at the living room, it - and the Steam machine - will be the only ones putting PC exclusive titles on your TV.

Lol, how do people still say stuff like this? Every PC can be hooked up to your TV and every PC can be adapted to fit into your living room.

 

[Shogmaster]

A lot of ppl in here that dont know how laptop GPUs are compared to desktop GPUs.

5070Ti laptop is miles away from 5070Ti desktop. In fact, the specs/performance sits between 5060 and 5050 desktops.

5070Ti desktop - 8960 cuda cores, 2452 MHz, 44 TFLOPs

5060 desktop - 3840 cuda cores, 2497 MHz, 19 TFLOPs

>>>5070Ti Mobile - 5888 cuda cores, 1447MHz, 17 TFLOPs <<<

5050 desktop - 2560 cuda cores, 2572 MHz, 13 TFLOPs

Just because the name is same, doesn't mean the specs are.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

It's completely irrelevant at this point. The next " Xbox" or whatever you want to call that abomination is not even going to do WiiU/Dreamcast/WiiU numbers.

What Sony actually needs to worry about is a mass market friendly price.

Yes that's exactly how the console business works. I remember the PS3 disaster.

Was the PS3 a technological marvel? Absolutely. Sony also lost money on each system that they sold.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

What Sony actually needs to worry about is a mass market friendly price.

Ah yes, be a worthy competitor but always at a "mass market friendly price". Its really simple, The PS5 Pro showed you exactly what the price point will be. You not gonna get even better and modern tech at a lesser price 3 years later. Steam Machine is rumored to be near $1000, the xbox rumors are its gonna be priceier because they are going all out, thinking the PS6 will be $500 is wishfull thinking.

 

[adamsapple]

You can keep your Xbox and library and invest either in a pc or the better alternative.

That's the idea, invest into the Magnus, which is a better alternative than just buying a regular PC that won't have ones pre-existing Xbox library on it.

 

[Sohurmk833]

Ah yes, be a worthy competitor but always at a "mass market friendly price". Its really simple, The PS5 Pro showed you exactly what the price point will be. You not gonna get even better and modern tech at a lesser price 3 years later. Steam Machine is rumored to be near $1000, the xbox rumors are its gonna be priceier because they are going all out, thinking the PS6 will be $500 is wishfull thinking.

I really don't care what the PS6 costs as i don't plan to buy one anytime soon.

Doesn't change though that it will fail to reach the mass market if it is too expensive. We're already seeing this with the PS5 to an extend.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I really don't care what the PS6 costs as i don't plan to buy one anytime soon.

Doesn't change though that it will fail to reach the mass market if it is too expensive. We're already seeing this with the PS5 to an extend.

Problem is we don't have those group of titles that people can point to and say THAT is why I need a PS5 over my PS4

GTA 6 may change that though

 

[DeepEnigma]

People say "just" like PC isn't the best way to game. It's so open. "Just" should go to closed box consoles. Consoles are just limited PCs these days. Limited support on peripherals and games with a limited pricing structure. Time to break free, man.

You're reading way too much into what I said. I've been PC gaming since the 90s and have not stopped. Before that I had Commodores (64, 128 and Amiga).

Overpriced PC without all the modular benefits work better for you?

You want to "break free" then get a regular ole PC right now this very second. The circling the wagon for The Brand™ in the guise of PC Gamers Club™ is transparent and cringe.

 

[StereoVsn]

A part of it, yes. That's their means to get all your existing library back, but again, to the best of my rudimentary understanding, it's still a new console in there too.

It's going to be interesting to see how they approach things. New games are going to be basically PC Win Store games I would think.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It's going to be interesting to see how they approach things. New games are going to be basically PC Win Store games I would think.

Maybe but would that require new devkits or are they just to work with the BC stuff?

 

[StereoVsn]

Maybe but would that require new devkits or are they just to work with the BC stuff?

Maybe they want to provide them for a baseline Magnus so devs include the appropriate settings into their games? No idea though.

 

[SyberWolf]

i am curious what the pricing of the next xbox/ps6 will be, with the ram prices.
i am thinking $999-1200.

 

[MCH2024]

Rubin Gaming Just got delayed into 2028 (the information). If Nvidia GeForce can't secure enough supplies (40%+ Operating Margins on Gaming, number 1 customer), Sony or Microsoft will not be able to either. Especially at the 30-36GB ridiculous spec.

Xbox can paper launch in 2027 late at a ridiculous price. Expect Sony to launch Late 2028.

Don't get too hyped. PS6 will perform like a 5070(S) and XSX2 like a 5070 Ti ~ 5080. The only thing new the new consoles offer over Blackwell is more Memory, but you will pay dearly for it as memory will likely remain a premium offering and not a commodity.

Let's just pray we get RTX 50 Super in 2027 now at least.

 

[Sohurmk833]

Problem is we don't have those group of titles that people can point to and say THAT is why I need a PS5 over my PS4

GTA 6 may change that though

That ist certainly part of the problem.

 

[MCH2024]

i am curious what the pricing of the next xbox/ps6 will be, with the ram prices.
i am thinking $999-1200.

Sony understands that the console buying demographic is very entry cost price conscious. It won't be that bad especially since the average PS6 gamer is going to be shilling out 80$/year on online.

But 499-549$ aren't even possible at this point. Don't forget it's not just DRAM. NAND shortage is just as bad.

At this point,
649-749$ PS6
999-1,199$ Xbox Series X2

 

[SportsFan581]

is it just me or is the next xbox more of a steambox competitor than playstation?

The rumors make it sound that way, but MS has neither confirmed nor denied anything. I guess we'll see when they announce it. To me, building a gaming PC with a set spec seems like the best bet for them. There's always that chance that it catches on, if it provides good value/performance for PC gamers.

 

[mayham2199]

Sony understands that the console buying demographic is very entry cost price conscious. It won't be that bad especially since the average PS6 gamer is going to be shilling out 80$/year on online.

But 499-549$ aren't even possible at this point. Don't forget it's not just DRAM. NAND shortage is just as bad.

At this point,
649-749$ PS6
999-1,199$ Xbox Series X2

Before the RAM crisis Kepler said the next Xbox was going to cost MS $1200. I expect it to at least be $1200.

 

[MCH2024]

Before the RAM crisis Kepler said the next Xbox was going to cost MS $1200. I expect it to at least be $

Don't take everything K KeplerL2 says literally.

Microsoft's costs are not that significantly higher than Sony. Magnus costing Microsoft around 30% more than PS6 is a good ballpark given how much DRAM+NAND have grown.

If they sell it for that much more than Sony it'd be because Microsoft doesn't expect to be able to capture any after market software sales. But that's unlikely given how hard Microsoft will go to war against Valve soon.

this isn't XSX vs PS5. XSX mixed memory neutralized the XSX bandwidth advantage, and XSX's GPU backend advantage was negated with the weaker GPU frontend.

Based on the leaked specs, Magnus is to PS6 what PS5 Pro is to PS5. The gap is almost 1.5x, almost as big as the 5070 vs 5080 gap.

(640 GB/s + 10MB L2 <<<< 768 GB/s + 24MB L2)

 

[Sohurmk833]

Don't take everything K KeplerL2 says literally.

Microsoft's costs are not that significantly higher than Sony.

Yes they are. PS6 is aiming at another 100 million seller. Xbox ist not even going to do 10% of that. Economics of scale.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Problem is we don't have those group of titles that people can point to and say THAT is why I need a PS5 over my PS4

GTA 6 may change that though

Now imagine the reason for a new Xbox when everything is everywhere.

 

[MCH2024]

Yes they are. PS6 is aiming at another 100 million seller. Xbox ist not even going to do 10% of that. Economics of scale.

PS6 will not sell 100 million or even come close. The primary PS6 console will be the lower cost handheld at ~5xx$ with 18-24GB RAM and small NAND.

The PS6 regular will slot in where PS5 Pro is at.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Now imagine the reason for a new Xbox when everything is everywhere.

Oh its all downhill for Xbox at the register but I do applaud them for trying something different as status quo wasn't working

 

[DeepEnigma]

Oh its all downhill for Xbox at the register but I do applaud them for trying something different as status quo wasn't working

Yes and no. I'm still of the belief it's a Trojan Horse for their No Walled Gardens Coalition™ with Epic that spawned in the courtrooms of the Apple lawsuit.

Scorched earth of the industry we grew up with is not cool and typical of a monopolistic loser's strategy.

 

[MCH2024]

Xbox doesn't matter. Magnus will be about Microsoft warding off the massive assault that will come to windows.

With Proton and DX12=>VK getting better, windows's gaming moats Is almost nonexistent.

Android (PC), SteamOS, Linux, MacOS all are planning to make a serious attempt at stealing windows marketshare. And gaming is a huge part of it.

Microsoft will need to weaken Valve as they are leveraging their dominance to pry Windows Gaming ecosystem wide open.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Yes and no. I'm still of the belief it's a Trojan Horse for their No Walled Gardens Coalition™ with Epic that spawned in the courtrooms of the Apple lawsuit.

Scorched earth of the industry we grew up with is not cool and typical of a monopolistic loser's strategy.

Its try something different or die

I am in the camp they should clean house of all their upper management and get fresh ideas with people who actually can look at a game and know if its good or not

 

[Shogmaster]

PS6 will not sell 100 million or even come close. The primary PS6 console will be the lower cost handheld at ~5xx$ with 18-24GB RAM and small NAND.

The PS6 regular will slot in where PS5 Pro is at.

In what regards? Price? Performance? That's certainly not Sony's aim. Sony designed PS6 to be low price as possible: Only 5 RAM chips vs 8 in PS5/PS5 Pro, SoC only 280mm², CPU cores only comprised of Compact cores, etc..

I'm betting only about $50~100 price gap between PS6HH vs PS6.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Only 5 RAM chips vs 8 in PS5/PS5 Pro, SoC only 280mm²

It's 10 chips and N3P is massively expensive. Magnus is 12.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Now imagine the reason for a new Xbox when everything is everywhere.

Plus coming from someone who has a huge Xbox library and also has not turned on my Xbox in literal years because 75% of my gaming is on PC and the rest on Playstation what could convince me to get back onboard with Xbox is every single 3rd party game is clearly better on the Magnus chip

I am not talking about Digital Foundry freezing the image and counting blades of grass, I mean obvious advantages

If they don't pull that off I will just stick with PC and PS

 

[MCH2024]

In what regards? Price? Performance? That's certainly not Sony's aim. Sony designed PS6 to be low price as possible: Only 5 RAM chips vs 8 in PS5/PS5 Pro, SoC only 280mm², CPU cores only comprised of Compact cores, etc..

I'm betting only about $50~100 price gap between PS6HH vs PS6.

It's literally a similar die size as PS5 Pro, on a newer process node after TSMC has repeatedly hiked prices.

With 30GB GDDR7 instead of 16GB GDDR6. (PS6 is also 10 memory chips, not 5)

Even if they go with a 1TB SSD, NAND has doubled so no savings on that front. If they keep a 2TB SSD it will cost decently more.

They save a little bit on cooling and power delivery. Everything else is more expensive than PS5 Pro.

So Expect something like
PS6H 18GB | 0.5TB | 549$
PS6B 30GB | 1.0TB | 749$

 

[DeepEnigma]

Its try something different or die

I am in the camp they should clean house of all their upper management and get fresh ideas with people who actually can look at a game and know if its good or not

As they should. It seems they want to "spend someone out of business" still, and that is no bueno and just a nasty tactic of a 3 trilly monop.

Instead of "taking their toys and going home" they want to take everyone's toys and go home.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Plus coming from someone who has a huge Xbox library and also has not turned on my Xbox in literal years because 75% of my gaming is on PC and the rest on Playstation what could convince me to get back onboard with Xbox is every single 3rd party game is clearly better on the Magnus chip

I am not talking about Digital Foundry freezing the image and counting blades of grass, I mean obvious advantages

If they don't pull that off I will just stick with PC and PS

Almost have to think Sony is counting on Frame Gen to help make the difference not look so bad. Wouldn't be surprised if most PS6 games are 120 fps with FG.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Almost have to think Sony is counting on Frame Gen to help make the difference not look so bad. Wouldn't be surprised if most PS6 games are 120 fps with FG.

Just make it look decent and I am all for it, give me all the FPS the can squeeze

 

[DeepEnigma]

Plus coming from someone who has a huge Xbox library and also has not turned on my Xbox in literal years because 75% of my gaming is on PC and the rest on Playstation what could convince me to get back onboard with Xbox is every single 3rd party game is clearly better on the Magnus chip

I am not talking about Digital Foundry freezing the image and counting blades of grass, I mean obvious advantages

If they don't pull that off I will just stick with PC and PS

PC will still be the best place to play.

Most of us never revisit the vast ecosystem libraries we have, there just isn't enough time anymore. Especially when most of the core games we want to play from that ecosystem are on PC and will be going forward.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

PC will still be the best place to play.

Most of us never revisit the vast ecosystem libraries we have, there just isn't enough time anymore. Especially when most of the core games we want to play from that ecosystem are on PC and will be going forward.

I piddle around with my libraries often, its 100% why I wanted a disc drive for my PS5 Pro

And yes PC is the best place to play unless its a game like GTA 6

And most shooters I play on console

 

[DeepEnigma]

And yes PC is the best place to play unless its a game like GTA 6

They always get me on the double dipping, those crafty R* mofos.

 

[MCH2024]

Thinking about it,

Sony has nowhere to run this time.

Microsoft has employed a strategy of building bigger than Sony in everything now. Sony can't possibly manage a tie like they did with PS5 (due to MSFT misconfiguring). Sony likely can't even possibly come close lol.

PS6B: 52CU, 96ROPS, 10MB L2, 640 GB/s, 160W
XSX2: 68CU, 128ROPS, 24MB L2, 768 GB/s, 275W

XSX2 will beat PS6 by 50% clean. The gap is literally 4070S vs 5080. And since it's a PC, Microsoft has much more freedom to configure 18/24/36GB VRAM Magnus SKUs that will undercut the PS6's 30GB.

If XSX2 is a PC, with the ability to use Steam + Xbox Libraries and free online. Even at 749$ vs 1199$, I would say that the PS6 is doomed.

The more interesting one is the PS6 Handheld. Half PS5 Performance but in a much more attractive form factor. Especially since it will double Switch2's performance.

 

[mckmas8808]

The No Walled Gardens Coalition™ begins as a bunch of us called it for their PC "console" last year.

@GHG
mckmas8808

Expect the lawsuits to ramp up outside of their proxy one for Steam in the UK.

That's the only reason why Epic is announcing this publicly. Because the "next-gen Xbox" is just a PC, so of course the Epic Game Store will be on it. But Tim knows what he's doing here.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

That's the only reason why Epic is announcing this publicly. Because the "next-gen Xbox" is just a PC, so of course the Epic Game Store will be on it. But Tim knows what he's doing here.

The article doesn't sound like its a given Epic will be on it

https://www.windowscentral.com/gami...h-weve-been-talking-to-the-folks-at-microsoft

"We've been talking to the folks at Microsoft. If they do follow through with allowing Steam and the Epic Games Store on the next generation of Xbox console hardware, we will be there. I'm fairly certain that'll require us to build an app that functions there."

Epic Games Store GM Steve Allison

 

[Shogmaster]

It's 10 chips and N3P is massively expensive. Magnus is 12.

Why yhe hell would you use 10 fucking chips for 160 bit bus? If you are committed to 10, might as well add few more dpzen mm² to the die and get benefits of 320 bit bus. L to the O to the L.

Also, by 2027, N2P will be the expensive node for TSMC. That's why both MS and Sony is using N3P to get better cost on their SoC.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Thinking about it,

Sony has nowhere to run this time.

Where do they need to run?

 

[mckmas8808]

The article doesn't sound like its a given Epic will be on it

https://www.windowscentral.com/gami...h-weve-been-talking-to-the-folks-at-microsoft

"We've been talking to the folks at Microsoft. If they do follow through with allowing Steam and the Epic Games Store on the next generation of Xbox console hardware, we will be there. I'm fairly certain that'll require us to build an app that functions there."

Epic Games Store GM Steve Allison

Feels like he's negotiating publicaly. Maybe pushing for MS to take 0% share if people buy from the Epic Store on this device.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The article doesn't sound like its a given Epic will be on it

https://www.windowscentral.com/gami...h-weve-been-talking-to-the-folks-at-microsoft

"We've been talking to the folks at Microsoft. If they do follow through with allowing Steam and the Epic Games Store on the next generation of Xbox console hardware, we will be there. I'm fairly certain that'll require us to build an app that functions there."

Epic Games Store GM Steve Allison

They are turfing, seeding. It's how this always starts.

It's no secret they have been buddy/buddy since the Apple lawsuit, in which now they want to target consoles and their "walled gardens," even after Sweeney claimed "consoles are different." But to trust him or MSFT is a fools errand to hold their words when they want zero revenue sharing for their platforms (notice how they now call Fortnite "a platform"), despite all their BS they spew into the consumer end of the business ether.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Not a knock on K KeplerL2 or HeisenbergFX4 but I have trouble believing MS is actually working on any sort of next-gen true console and then also releasing a "PC."

I just can't make sense of that. And I can't make sense of why they'd make an actual console and then bother to let others create stores for it... or why anyone would really want such a feature considering Steam is full of Windows software not software designed for a closed-system console. Why would Valve even bother to create a storefront to distribute 3rd party games and why would any publisher even choose to publish to this Xbox version of Steam when the main UI of Xbox will surely be focused on the Xbox store?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

They are turfing, seeding. It's how this always starts.

It's no secret they have been buddy/buddy since the Apple lawsuit, in which now they want to target consoles and their "walled gardens," even after Sweeney claimed "consoles are different." But to trust him or MSFT is a fools errand to hold their words when they want zero revenue sharing for their platforms (notice how they now call Fortnite "a platform"), despite all their BS they spew into the consumer end of the business ether.

Why say anything if "its just a PC"?

 

[MCH2024]

Not a knock on K KeplerL2 or HeisenbergFX4 but I have trouble believing MS is actually working on any sort of next-gen true console and then also releasing a "PC."

I just can't make sense of that. And I can't make sense of why they'd make an actual console and then bother to let others create stores for it... or why anyone would really want such a feature considering Steam is full of Windows software not software designed for a closed-system console. Why would Valve even bother to create a storefront to distribute 3rd party games and why would any publisher even choose to publish to this Xbox version of Steam when the main UI of Xbox will surely be focused on the Xbox store?

The idea is actually devious and simple. It's the xbox full screen expirence.

Basically on the OS level, you front and center xbox and Microsoft store. Your steam games get integrated *in the background*. The idea is to not interact with steam at any level whatsoever. Steam is just a background service. You bury steam on the OS level.

Eventually regular PC Gamers will start using Xbox Full Screen Experience because lower RAM usage + Lower Background tasks.

This is less about Xbox and more about defending Windows.

 

[IntentionalPun]

The idea is actually devious and simple. It's the xbox full screen expirence.

Basically on the OS level, you front and center xbox and Microsoft store. Your steam games get integrated *in the background*. The idea is to not interact with steam at any level whatsoever. Steam is just a background service.

This is less about Xbox and more about defending Windows.

You are missing my point. Our 2 local insiders believe what you are describing (a PC) is just one of the devices and that there is also a more traditional console (so closed system APIs, no dropping into Windows) that MS is working on, which they will allow 3rd party stores on.

edit: or maybe not, not really understanding your post at all

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why say anything if "its just a PC"?

From the sounds of it, it's "just a PC" like a "portable PC" is, see Ally.

Far more inline with that than "just a console."

 

[IntentionalPun]

Why say anything if "its just a PC"?

They don't seem to know much. I doubt the communication between Epic and MS is any less vague than what the public has been getting. Note how he isn't even sure they'll need to create an app lol

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

From the sounds of it, it's "just a PC" like a "portable PC" is, see Ally.

Far more inline with that than "just a console."

I guess we will see

 

[MCH2024]

You are missing my point. Our 2 local insiders believe what you are describing (a PC) is just one of the devices and that there is also a more traditional console (so closed system APIs, no dropping into Windows) that MS is working on, which they will allow 3rd party stores on.

edit: or maybe not, not really understanding your post at all

What I am saying is Magnus is a part of a larger strategy. Magnus only makes sense within that strategy.

Xbox: Runs Xbox Full Screen Experience, has Steam Integration but doesn't touch regular windows. So cost subsidized by no piracy. But this will probably mean it won't be easy (might not even be possible) to purchase games from those stores on the device.

Magnus APUs that get sold into OEM partners for mini PCs and laptops. They will have both FSE AND regular windows.

And FSE integrated into all Windows Gaming PCs and handhelds out there. With the benefit of lower RAM usage, console like launcher and less background tasks.

I think that the root of Microsoft's strategy is above all to swallow valve. All you do is you login to steam. Everything steam is done in the background without user interaction. This way, Users can bring over their steam library and then augment it with Xbox games. This way Microsoft gets to use the user's Valve library And then cut valve out at the OS level. The only limiting factor is how anti-competitive it can be.

The threat of this happening is why Valve has invested everything into Linux.