Topher
Identifies as young
Wrong. Linux is completely open. Steam OS is Linux.
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Asha Sharma: Next Xbox Project Name: "Helix" - Will 'lead in performance and play your Xbox and PC games'
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Wrong. Linux is completely open. Steam OS is Linux.
Topher
Identifies as young
Fair enough.....it's Jez so that leaves room for doubt, but that's all we can go with for now.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's either 9070 tops and not 5080 raster with 5090 RT.
But, I guess we'll see.
Tobimacoss
Member
The games running on the device are not Linux native binaries. They are windows games run via a translation layer.
So in order to accomplish that, Steam integrated Proton into their backend. There are certain features and APIs that are exclusive to Steam games only if I'm not mistaken. Like the shader compilation and Hardware Optimization Profiles.
Compare that to Xbox Full Screen Experience features on handhelds that will apply systemwide like Default Profiles or Advanced Shader Delivery. When MS creates windows APIs, they are available to everyone and their mothers.
Google before the anti trust, created APIs that were linked specifically to Playstore and Play Services, that's why Amazon app store could never succeed. Android is open in name only.
Correct me If I'm wrong as I don't use it but Epic and other storefronts would use Lutris right? Not the advanced version of Proton that Steam has. Basically SteamOS created APIs on top of an open platform that are exclusive to their store and games.
Exactly. Average user is computer illiterate.Average user.....
pudel
Member
I am tired already.The only thing I know 100% from this thread, console wars are back on the menu...
Steve Holt
Member
If Jason Ronald is involved it would be gimped somehow. Like how Series S has affected some releases for the Series X.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
MisterXDTV
Member
He's talking about it next week, so he is involved for sure
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Because they have their own living room box coming and a SteamOS they want to push with it. Why would they aide the Microsoft store more-so and undercut their own box?
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pudel
Member
Nothing is exclusive to steam. You can run lutris or heroic or whatever you want with the steam proton layer. Which btw is not even the most advanced one. Because other proton layers (like protonGE for example) can just take the steam proton layer and add stuff to it.
GitHub - ValveSoftware/Proton: Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components
Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components - ValveSoftware/Proton
github.com
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Steve Holt
Member
I guess they will just be selling these through their own store?
I can't imagine too many places would be willing to stock a $1000+ machine. Especially off the back of being unable to shift (much, much cheaper) Xbox Series consoles.
I can't imagine too many places would be willing to stock a $1000+ machine. Especially off the back of being unable to shift (much, much cheaper) Xbox Series consoles.
Probably limited online only release into "Tier 1" countries.
Topher
Identifies as young
You are incorrect. Proton is open source and is freely available for anyone to use. Proton is based on Wine, DXVK & VKD3D. All open source. Heroic Launcher is another option for these stores and it can use Proton as well.
Bottom line: you don't need Steam to run Windows games in Linux. Just Steam games.
Which has nothing to do with whether a system is open or closed.
MisterXDTV
Member
Because they have their own living room box coming and a SteamOS they want to push with it. Why would they aide the Microsoft store more-so and undercut their own box?
Their own box will be much cheaper for starters
I don't see them excluding a Windows Device, like they didn't exclude the fake "Xbox" ROG Ally while having Steam Deck to sell
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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memoryman3
Member
The Xbox ROG is basically what this Helix device is, without the backwards compatibility.
Topher
Identifies as young
Really all this comes back to whether it is an open Windows PC, like Rog Xbox Ally, or not. The question is if it isn't and MS needs Valve to opt-in then will they? If Xbox is just a PC then it doesn't matter.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's a fight for mindshare and once again, Valve wants to push their SteamOS adoption.
Only way this works, is if it's just a PC with a console wrapper/app/mode. Then anyone can install Steam.
But I doubt Valve is going to make a custom app for the thing like Epic suggested/assumed.
MisterXDTV
Member
Xbox Helix is a copy of Steam Machine with Windows instead of Steam OS + an hardware chip for retrogaming old Xbox consoles
Stop spreading this bullshit for God's sake
demigod
Member
My man, stop pulling shit out from your ass. It's not because of Pete Hines request, delusional.
MisterXDTV
Member
I don't see much difference: Microsoft WANTS Steam, Steam has no reason to say no because they make money from every Windows device in the world TODAY
So in the end: Who cares?
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IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I don't think that will help.
Currently Microsoft takes a 30% cut of every game sold on the Xbox store. If the game is £70, Microsoft takes a nice £21. If somebody buys 10-15 games, Microsoft are taking a cut of up to £300. If a customer buys the next Xbox, but uses it as a Windows based Steam Machine, Microsoft are not seeing a penny.
Also, would people still sign up to Gamepass if they have access to so many third party stores? I'm not convinced. Look at PC gamers now. A majority still prefer Steam than Gamepass for PC.
I understand the argument that more expensive hardware will offset this lost revenue, but I just don't see this being a roaring success if it's priced at a four figure sum. It'll sell far less than the current consoles, so what's even the point?
Topher
Identifies as young
As I said before, I don't agree that Valve has no reason to say no, but we will see
Some games on Steam do offer native Linux binaries and they will download those and run them directly.
You can download any old Windows executable, add it to Steam as a non-Steam game and run it and it will be launched through Proton just like a Windows game downloaded through Steam. Steam Input and hardware identification work just fine for non-Steam games. In fact you can see Steam Input profiles others created just like software that's native to Steam. The hardware optimization is just an API call by the game to identify the system it's running on if it sees a Deck it sets specific settings. A GOG copy of a game could make that same call and operate the exact same way. It's not shader compilation, it's shader caching. These are unique to Steam apps and it depends on the version of the game executable and the GPU drivers. Microsoft is working with AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA to integrate caching into Windows.
An average user being computer illiterate doesn't change the fact you can choose the "Switch to Desktop Mode" from the SteamOS menu and be at a Linux desktop and have full access to be able to run sudo and change whatever low level system thing you want.
Proton is also open source. The "GE" versions are the same as what's Valve is running but also include licensed files Valve can't. These are things like media codec that fix or otherwise make games work that don't on Valve's version of Proton.
Lutris is just a frontend to automate the download and configuration of non-Steam games. You can have it download an Epic or GOG game and link it to Steam so it shows up in Big Picture mode. You can then run the game just like any other native Steam game.
Android is locked down, and you want it to be. Otherwise everyone's phone would be loaded up with malware. SteamOS is wide open with security as an after thought. They don't compare to one another. What Microsoft gives you access to in Helix remains to be seen. Until it's in people's hands we won't know if it's a full unlocked Windows install you can do anything with. Or a locked down Xbox full screen experience that let select other stores be installed and linked.
pudel
Member
Bring the xbox boys on board?
MisterXDTV
Member
They put Steam on every Windows device on the planet, why should this one be any different?
Rambone
Member
I don't really buy the idea that Microsoft is "throwing customers a bone." What makes more sense is that the hybrid PC‑console space is still largely untapped, and Microsoft actually has a better chance of succeeding there than continuing the traditional console war they've been losing ground in for years.
The reality is simple: Microsoft can't keep fighting a war on multiple fronts , competing with Sony on exclusives, supporting PC day‑and‑date, and maintaining a separate console ecosystem. That model has been stretched thin for an entire generation. Project Helix is their last, best shot at consolidating what's left of their audience and attracting new customers who want their PC library on the big screen without the usual PC setup friction.
A hybrid device solves that. It gives you:
- Your full PC library
- A console‑like, turnkey living‑room experience
- No need to drag a tower across the house or deal with display quirks, controller configs, or Windows weirdness
If Microsoft can deliver that, a true living‑room PC that feels like a console, I'll happily pay for it. Not because it's "one last bone," but because it finally fills a gap that neither consoles nor PCs have solved cleanly.
CuteFaceJay
Member
Project Lord Helix?
Topher
Identifies as young
Dude....we are going in circles. Let's move on
MisterXDTV
Member
And more importantly, how can MS sell it as a machine that plays PC games, if it can't play PC games bought from the largest PC store on the planet BY FAR????
If Steam is not in it, they are selling even LESS units of this turd....
MisterXDTV
Member
BINGO, let's call it hardware emulation but your point still stands....
pudel
Member
Honestly...its the most logical thing for them to do. Why trying to fuck around with two different "ecosystems" when only one is really needed.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
People put Steam on every Windows device with a client Valve provides. If it's just Windows, then yea, Steam is there for anyone to download... if it's a custom OS, then it can still happen, but would undermine Valves own gaming OS goals, me thinks. Valve has a vested interest to grow Linux gaming, not shrink it.
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Radical_3d
Member
And a standard BluRay add on wouldn't work in a Windows environment?
The issue is Microsoft doesn't get the 30% cut on sales. And the need to pay for multiplayer also goes out the window. How exactly is Microsoft benefiting?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It would (should?) but I'm wondering whether it'll have any kind of disc drive in the first place, at the minimum they should offer an add-on like Sony has.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
My Windows Xbox app continues to collate many of the stores I have installed on my PC.
If a game is installed on Steam, GOG, Epic, they show up in my Xbox app library. I can launch the game directly from there.
I'm assuming Helix will be similar.
You will need to take the time to boot into a desktop mode to find and install your games.
Xbox mode will have you in the same 'Mode' complete with a store.
I wonder if MS is counting on lazy gamers who don't want to bother booting into another mode to buy a game.
If a game is installed on Steam, GOG, Epic, they show up in my Xbox app library. I can launch the game directly from there.
I'm assuming Helix will be similar.
You will need to take the time to boot into a desktop mode to find and install your games.
Xbox mode will have you in the same 'Mode' complete with a store.
I wonder if MS is counting on lazy gamers who don't want to bother booting into another mode to buy a game.
MisterXDTV
Member
That's just semantics: Windows has 97% of Steam's installations vs 2% for Linux/SteamOS
It means almost nobody installs SteamOS on a Windows device, even though they could
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MisterXDTV
Member
Kataploom
Gold Member
Oh, Gears 2 and 3 are not on PC yet, nor the Xbox 360 games.
pudel
Member
They also dont get a cut now, because no one wants the windows store (for very good reasons). And are you begging to pay for online gaming? This shit has to go anyway.
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