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[Tobimacoss]

If you boot into Windows, yes.

It will likely be free in Xbox Game mode as well. Thing is, even if they were going to make it free, they want to reveal it either in June or November at the major events/marketing. So All the documentation, FAQs will pretend it's still required until the day they announce it isn't.

 

[Topher]

Gotta keep that reoccurring revenue coming in....

"Windows 11 Helix (Recommended)"

New version of Windows to play xbox games on Helix compatible apus?

If any of that true is true then this will be an even bigger mess than I ever imagined.

 

[mopspear]

new Xbox?
culd be better or worse, but let's see it first

Better or worse? Let's call it the XBOX 3.6 "Not great, not terrible."

[Pictured here: Phil Spencer and Sarah Bond being fired by Satya Nadatlov]

 

[Proelite]

It will likely be free in Xbox Game mode as well. Thing is, even if they were going to make it free, they want to reveal it either in June or November at the major events/marketing. So All the documentation, FAQs will pretend it's still required until the day they announce it isn't.

Yep this is likely required to do so because some decisions have yet to be made, especially since they're reviewing some things.

 

[Proelite]

If any of that true is true then this will be an even bigger mess than I ever imagined.

Why would it be messier. You won't be able to download or buy Helix os, as only Xbox and OEMs have access.

 

[Topher]

Why would it be messier. You won't be able to download or buy Helix os, as only Xbox and OEMs have access.

I'm talking about from a consumer perspective. It is a mess.

 

[Brucey]

Why would it be messier. You won't be able to download or buy Helix os, as only Xbox and OEMs have access.

According to sejutsu/tobi theres going to be helix derivatives all over the place. I figure Windows 11 Helix is for those that assemble their own helix pc (minimum of 32GB of RAM).

 

[adamsapple]

*Updated: Xbox Helix Development Portal details may have leaked

Update: While there's always bound to be tons of speculation and conjecture on projects of this nature , we can at least say that in this instance that

playday.one

Interesting if true.

At least 32 GB unified RAM available for Devs, so 36 GB total basically confirmed.

Not liking the online multiplayer requirement.

Six screenshots were posting to /v on 4Chan

 

[Topher]

Six screenshots were posting to /v on 4Chan

 

[Proelite]

According to sejutsu/tobi theres going to be helix derivatives all over the place. I figure Windows 11 Helix is for those that assemble their own helix pc (minimum of 32GB of RAM).

Not happening. Helix and Xbox devices are only for 1st party and OEMs.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Yep this is likely required to do so because some decisions have been made yet, especially since they're reviewing some things.

There might be another thing to note. Multiplayer might only be free for Helix, not the current Series consoles. But the development pipeline is possibly going to be same for Series consoles as well. Series consoles may even get updated to the new OS. If MS wants to unify ecosystem under one universal SKU, then Series consoles need to run that exact SKU for Forwards Compatibility.

There has been precedent for this. Xbox One consoles used XDK until 2020. Then the GDKX subsumed the XDK and all development for Xbox One became same as Series Consoles, using the GDKX.

So they changed the development pipeline for Xbox One consoles seamlessly when Series consoles rolling out, making cross gen smoother.
So Xbox One, Series, Helix, Windows devices, all will need to be using the singular universal SKU for games built after the next gen consoles. They may cut off Xbox One support if the devices can't handle the new OS.

 

[Brucey]

I'm talking about from a consumer perspective. It is a mess.

Grandma goes into Best Buy:

"I'm looking to buy my grandson Timmy "a helix" for Christmas"

"Let me help you ma'am. We dont actually carry Microsoft Helix PCs those are online order only from Microsoft Store. But we do sell Windows 11 Helix edition which turns his PC into a Helix. Just $199+$50 per year subscription....."

 

[Topher]

Grandma goes into Best Buy:

"I'm looking to buy my grandson Timmy "a helix" for Christmas"

"Let me help you ma'am. We dont actually carry Microsoft Helix PCs those are online order only from Microsoft Store. But we do sell Windows 11 Helix edition which turns his PC into a Helix. Just $199+$50 per year subscription....."

Grandma walks out with a PlayStation

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

If you boot into Windows, yes.

The solution cannot seriously be different bootable operating systems LMAO

 

[Steve Holt]

The solution cannot seriously be different bootable operating systems LMAO

All part of the new console experience my man

 

[viveks86]

*Updated: Xbox Helix Development Portal details may have leaked

Update: While there's always bound to be tons of speculation and conjecture on projects of this nature , we can at least say that in this instance that

playday.one

Interesting if true.

At least 32 GB unified RAM available for Devs, so 36 GB total basically confirmed.

Not liking the online multiplayer requirement.

I really hope none of that is true. Game mode and Windows mode switching just to play Steam games sounds like a fragmented and dreadful user experience.

 

[Topher]

 

[Proelite]

The solution cannot seriously be different bootable operating systems LMAO

At least Asha and Tom Warren was correct in that this is a console.

 

[Killer8]

*Updated: Xbox Helix Development Portal details may have leaked

Update: While there's always bound to be tons of speculation and conjecture on projects of this nature , we can at least say that in this instance that

playday.one

Interesting if true.

At least 32 GB unified RAM available for Devs, so 36 GB total basically confirmed.

Not liking the online multiplayer requirement.

I hope this is true because it's almost exactly what I want out of this box.

Because it also runs full fat Windows, my real hype is being able to run masses of emulators on it. Retroarch, PCSX2, Dolphin etc. It's what I wanted the Xbox Series X to be before Microsoft blocked emulators from their store. They thankfully won't be able to do shit on Helix. USB peripheral support also means I can use the correct controllers for each emulator.

Steam Machine offers some of the same emulation potential, but being able to play the whole Xbox library is the cherry on top for Helix. Xbox and 360 emulation on PC still sucks. Steam Machine will also be too underpowered to play next-gen games like Helix will be able to. You also lose out on a lot of games which either don't work well on Proton or use kernel level anti-cheat.

So with those points in mind, Helix has the potential to be the ultimate all-in-one gaming history device for me. As far as next-gen goes, I would happily buy one alongside a PS6, to join my Switch 2.

I really hope none of that is true. Game mode and Windows mode switching just to play Steam games sounds like a fragmented and dreadful user experience.

It's not totally segmented:

You can link Steam and Epic Games on the dashboard and compatible games should populate your library in Game Mode.

I am picturing it like adding executables to Steam. You add Steam game stubs to the Game mode UI so that when you launch them it transitions straight into the game (running via Windows mode). Time will tell if they can make that transition smooth and seamless.

 

[Topher]

At least Asha and Tom Warren was correct in that this is a console.

It is just as much a Windows PC.

 

[Proelite]

It is just as much a Windows PC.

Doesn't sound like you can install anything you want.

Btw, hearing that this is faked.

The fact that there is a page for installing Windows 11 home and professional is sus.

 

[Topher]

Doesn't sound like you can install anything you want.

"Windows Mode is exactly what it sounds like"
"Mods are supported only in Windows Mode"

Btw, hearing that this is faked.

The fact that there is a page for installing Windows 11 home and professional is sus.

Was pretty obvious that this had a high chance of being fake just by virtue of it being on 4chan.

 

[Shogmaster]

Bro actually retarded or??

Imma go with or.

 

[Esquie]

This sounds more like an Xbox console with an optional boot to Windows. The Xbox OS shell looks to be a legit console shell like on Xbox Series and previous.

I actually like the sound of that. I figured it would be like an alt-tab thing where you can instantly switch into Windows. But this sounds like a separate legit console shell + optional windows, a dual boot system.

(assuming any of that is true)

Edit: Is ROG Ally X an alt-tab deal like I described or a dual boot?

 

[Proelite]

This sounds more like an Xbox console with an optional boot to Windows. The Xbox OS shell looks to be a legit console shell like on Xbox Series and previous.

I actually like the sound of that. I figured it would be like an alt-tab thing where you can instantly switch into Windows. But this sounds like a separate legit console shell + optional windows, a dual boot system.

(assuming any of that is true)

Edit: Is ROG Ally X an alt-tab deal like I described or a dual boot?

It's not true.

 

[Topher]

This sounds more like an Xbox console with an optional boot to Windows. The Xbox OS shell looks to be a legit console shell like on Xbox Series and previous.

You could say it is a Windows PC that can optionally boot to Xbox as well. If something like this is what it is, then seems everyone was right. lol

I actually like the sound of that. I figured it would be like an alt-tab thing where you can instantly switch into Windows. But this sounds like a separate legit console shell + optional windows, a dual boot system.

(assuming any of that is true)

Edit: Is ROG Ally X an alt-tab deal like I described or a dual boot?

Rog Xbox Ally is just Windows PC with FSE. FSE runs on top of Windows.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

*Updated: Xbox Helix Development Portal details may have leaked

Update: While there's always bound to be tons of speculation and conjecture on projects of this nature , we can at least say that in this instance that

playday.one

Interesting if true.

At least 32 GB unified RAM available for Devs, so 36 GB total basically confirmed.

Not liking the online multiplayer requirement.

Windows Mode and Game Mode are sounding like two different OS environments (or hypervisor layers in this case) with functionality tied together via a middle layer for translation and whatnot. Kind of like something I was speculating could've been the case earlier.

From the sounds of it, seems like a lot of the cumbersomeness in context switching going between environments has been smoothed over (or at least on its way to being smoothed over) so that it "feels" like one cohesive user environment vs. two bespoke partitions on a drive, which was going to be the biggest issue here.

I kinda skimmed over the online stuff so gotta re-read it, but it seems like Steam and EGS access is upfront, not behind a Game Pass tier. Though, this could simply be one SKU of potentially two (where the second in theory could put that access behind a Game Pass tier, though in this case would also need a heavily restricted Windows Mode or forego Windows Mode altogether). In any case, as-is this thing (this SKU, if there is one reflective of the development system) will 100% not be subsidized in any way. There is simply zero business case for doing so.

What I'm still curious about is, will it have upgradable hardware components i.e low-profile approved GPUs, or at least overclocking capabilities in the BIOS (within power management & thermal limits of what the power & cooling are graded for), and stuff like that. Other than that, I genuinely don't see a reason why you'd use Game Mode for online play unless we're talking OG Xbox & 360 games that are accessed through it with no Windows Mode equivalent, but then that doesn't make any sense since those games have no online functionality anymore.

Overall, sounds like the biggest hurdle (making the two user environment feel like a cohesive singular environment) might have been solved, though this says nothing to how stable the OS actually is and how much load you can place on it before things break. Those have been the biggest flaws of Windows over the past 5-8 years and the Xbox ROG Ally did no favors in building confidence on that note.

They're gonna have to show this thing in action the way rea users would be utilizing it, to convince doubters there's something substantive here.

 

[kevboard]

*Updated: Xbox Helix Development Portal details may have leaked

Update: While there's always bound to be tons of speculation and conjecture on projects of this nature , we can at least say that in this instance that

playday.one

Interesting if true.

At least 32 GB unified RAM available for Devs, so 36 GB total basically confirmed.

Not liking the online multiplayer requirement.

I'm sorry what? a subscription is needed in Xbox mode but not Windows mode? even tho apparently you can play most games in Windows mode anyway?

that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. if that's true, they will make themselves look like absolute retards trying to explain that to the customers.

there's no way Game Pass Core as a multiplayer subscription requirement can be upheld on such a hybrid machine.
they would literally discourage you from buying Xbox games if they do that. why buy the version of the game that asks you to pay for online features?

 

[Pimpbaa]

Yeah but at what cost? I'm not paying double what I payed for my Series X. If valve can't make weak specs of the steam machine cheap, what chance does MS with their own consolized PC? Unless they plan on forcing you to use the MS store in windows, if this thing runs steam than that means MS will want to make their money on the hardware. Add to that the current ram crisis. Probably all been said, but still. I expect the price to be crazy.

 

[Ashamam]

I'd give this a 2 on the leak scale, and thats just for the effort of putting it together.

 

[tr1p1ex]

They should be able to do SteamDeck numbers if they execute well.

 

[Grenseal]

It's too late. The vibe that the brand has failed is already out there. I'm not interested in Console-as-a-Service subscription-based hardware.

 

[DeepEnigma]

PS6 is RTX 5080 tier in RT how much will that be. $1500?

AMD is back bitches.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

I'm sorry what? a subscription is needed in Xbox mode but not Windows mode? even tho apparently you can play most games in Windows mode anyway?

that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. if that's true, they will make themselves look like absolute retards trying to explain that to the customers.

there's no way Game Pass Core as a multiplayer subscription requirement can be upheld on such a hybrid machine.
they would literally discourage you from buying Xbox games if they do that. why buy the version of the game that asks you to pay for online features?

I mean, the "Xbox mode" is like the official Xbox Series X emulator the machine will have, so it's literally like if you were playing on a Series X. Including its perks like the back compat with previous Xboxes but also its limitations like the fixed settings and features of each game and the required subscription for online, I would be more surprised if they don't do it that way. Think of it like this: you get a free Xbox Series X if you buy a Helix.

 

[viveks86]

I am picturing it like adding executables to Steam. You add Steam game stubs to the Game mode UI so that when you launch them it transitions straight into the game (running via Windows mode). Time will tell if they can make that transition smooth and seamless.

The stubs are fine, but the experience HAS to be seamless and universal. The fact that there are even 2 modes should not be visible to the user. The moment you create a fragmented experience where online works differently on one mode and not the other or the game performs differently in one mode but not the other, or quick resume being exclusive to "game mode" you are creating all these barriers and uncertainties in the experience that will frustrate users. Now you are putting the responsibility on the user to remember where they launched the game, can they or can they not just switch games and assume quick resume is working etc. All that sounds like some experimental "use at your own risk" kind of product.

Having multiple OSes to sandbox this under the hood is perfectly fine, but it should all be completely transparent to the user who just wants to buy a new game or pick up an existing game and play. Choose store, buy game, play. Switch game (regardless of store) and Play. Switch back to previous game with quick resume and play… that should be the product from the get go. None of that dual boot Jerry-rigging

And that could still be the case as I'm finding this leak quite suspicious. It's like someone cobbled it together as soon as an announcement was made to enjoy the attention it gets

 

[demigod]

You want me explain to you how PC works? O...k....

Doesn't Steam Deck have "Deck ready" certification for games on Steam store so that you dont buy one for your Deck that runs like dog shit?

Do you think Sony should allow PS6 games to run on PS6HH that runs like dog shit?

There. I explained how PC works. Hope that helped you.

So Steam charges an extra $25 to run it on Steam Deck because of Deck Ready Certification? That's news to me. Better start explaining to me on other handhelds while you're at it, Asus, Lenovo, MSI.

Bro actually retarded or??

Also low IQ

 

[kevboard]

I mean, the "Xbox mode" is like the official Xbox Series X emulator the machine will have, so it's literally like if you were playing on a Series X. Including its perks like the back compat with previous Xboxes but also its limitations like the fixed settings and features of each game and the required subscription for online, I would be more surprised if they don't do it that way. Think of it like this: you get a free Xbox Series X if you buy a Helix.

if we believe the leak, you will be able to play Series X games and new Xbox games in PC mode. and in PC mode there's no online fee.
this would be so incredibly stupid it would probably make the system sound stupid as fuck. that's bad PR right out of the box.

they have drop the online fee. that's the only way this system will not sound retarded the moment they announce it.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

if we believe the leak, you will be able to play Series X games and new Xbox games in PC mode. and in PC mode there's no online fee.
this would be so incredibly stupid it would probably make the system sound stupid as fuck. that's bad PR right out of the box.

they have drop the online fee. that's the only way this system will not sound retarded the moment they announce it.

But from what we know the "new xbox" games are just going to be the PC version of games. The Xbox Series titles that are playable on Windows mode are probably going to be the games that are Play Anywhere compatible, so you're not really playing the Xbox version of a game on Windows mode, you're just playing the PC version with the same saved file.

 

[Proelite]

Gotten confirmation that the 4chan leak is fake.

 

[kevboard]

But from what we know the "new xbox" games are just going to be the PC version of games. The Xbox Series titles that are playable on Windows mode are probably going to be the games that are Play Anywhere compatible, so you're not really playing the Xbox version of a game on Windows mode, you're just playing the PC version with the same saved file.

it really doesn't matter either way. imagine having to explain that some games will have free online MP in one mode but not the other.
if a game that isn't PC mode compatible is available on Steam, why would anyone buy the Xbox version on their Xbox? why would you buy the worse version, the version with less options, the version without mod support, and the one that forces you to pay to play online?

having both ecosystems on a single piece of hardware will very directly show how absolutely ridiculous these pay to play online requirements have always been. and being on the same piece of hardware that also has a free option available will be an absolute PR nightmare.

Microsoft has to kill gamepass core, and unify Gamepass Ultimate with Gamepass PC.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

it really doesn't matter either way. imagine having to explain that some games will have free online MP in one mode but not the other.
if a game that isn't PC mode compatible is available on Steam, why would anyone buy the Xbox version on their Xbox? why would you buy the worse version, the version with less options, the version without mod support, and the one that forces you to pay to play online?

having both ecosystems on a single piece of hardware will very directly show how absolutely ridiculous these pay to play online requirements have always been. and being on the same piece of hardware that also has a free option available will be an absolute PR nightmare.

Microsoft has to kill gamepass core, and unify Gamepass Ultimate with Gamepass PC.

You bring up some valid points, and that's also been discussed here but I guess we'll have to wait and see what they have in mind.
But the whole Xbox Mode thing is not there for people to choose what they like most, it's there just so existing Xbox users stay with them, I'm sure a lot of people would jump ship if they were not able to play their existing library in this new machine.

 

[Fess]

Now Microsoft is saying this multi-store device that sounds awfully like just another PC is actually a "console". Sorry, but Microsoft has cried wolf too many times to take their words at face value, in my mind.

I don't get this. Why does it matter if it's a console or not???

As long as it's built to be connected to a TV and can play the games you've bought on Xbox and also play games you've bought on Steam and freeloaded from Epic etc - What's the actual problem?


The day I docked a Steam Deck to the TV I started drifting away from the usual consoles.
+ It felt like a console but wasn't restricted like a console.
- The only problem was the performance.


Then I built a PC for the living room to not be limited by power, booted it into Steam BPM.
+ It felt like a console, was silent like a console, was more powerful than a console, had access to more content than a console.
- The only problem was that dealing with outer launchers and browsing Gamepass was a hurdle.


Then I swapped to boot into Playnite. Upgraded the graphics card because I could. This is where I'm at now.
+ It feels like a console, is more silent than a console, more powerful than probably all the next gen consoles, I have easy access to all launchers libraries for browsing and installing and playing, including Gamepass.
- The only problem is that I can't access my old console games.


The last bit will supposedly be fixed with Helix, at least for the Xbox library, the PlayStation library is kinda lost I guess.
And I really couldn't care less if it's defined as a console or PC or car or hamburger.
Why is that so important so it's always a talking point around this device? I don't get it

 

[Three]

I wonder what dumb name they'll come up this time... [X Box Series PC], [PC Box]... ?
Can't wait.

"Xbox PC"

 

[Tobimacoss]

it really doesn't matter either way. imagine having to explain that some games will have free online MP in one mode but not the other.
if a game that isn't PC mode compatible is available on Steam, why would anyone buy the Xbox version on their Xbox? why would you buy the worse version, the version with less options, the version without mod support, and the one that forces you to pay to play online?

having both ecosystems on a single piece of hardware will very directly show how absolutely ridiculous these pay to play online requirements have always been. and being on the same piece of hardware that also has a free option available will be an absolute PR nightmare.

Microsoft has to kill gamepass core, and unify Gamepass Ultimate with Gamepass PC.

Agreed, however, they just need to get rid of the online paywall, they don't need to get rid of Essential tier. It is the base tier for Cloud Gaming now, plus it still has games with gold collection of games attached to it. Premium will be the replacement for PC Gamepass once it reaches parity on the PC Catalog minus the Day 1 Games.

If a console doesn't sell, then that's a loss of subscription revenue anyways, so if they are no longer subsidizing hardware, the online paywall must go.

 

[playbignbox]

I don't get this. Why does it matter if it's a console or not???

As long as it's built to be connected to a TV and can play the games you've bought on Xbox and also play games you've bought on Steam and freeloaded from Epic etc - What's the actual problem?


The day I docked a Steam Deck to the TV I started drifting away from the usual consoles.
+ It felt like a console but wasn't restricted like a console.
- The only problem was the performance.


Then I built a PC for the living room to not be limited by power, booted it into Steam BPM.
+ It felt like a console, was silent like a console, was more powerful than a console, had access to more content than a console.
- The only problem was that dealing with outer launchers and browsing Gamepass was a hurdle.


Then I swapped to boot into Playnite. Upgraded the graphics card because I could. This is where I'm at now.
+ It feels like a console, is more silent than a console, more powerful than probably all the next gen consoles, I have easy access to all launchers libraries for browsing and installing and playing, including Gamepass.
- The only problem is that I can't access my old console games.


The last bit will supposedly be fixed with Helix, at least for the Xbox library, the PlayStation library is kinda lost I guess.
And I really couldn't care less if it's defined as a console or PC or car or hamburger.
Why is that so important so it's always a talking point around this device? I don't get it

It's just a way of saying it won't be a traditional console: no subsidies, no specific game versions, etc.

Anyway, aside from the price, it being a PC is an advantage in my opinion; it probably just won't sell well anyway.

 

[Three]

Not fast enough to some, I guess, cause he was saying the same thing a few days later.

You've completely misconstrued his point. He is saying if they wanted to do exclusives they would have to increase production on xbox Series and redesign Magnus hardware, which they're not doing.

 

[Fess]

It's just a way of saying it won't be a traditional console: no subsidies, no specific game versions, etc.

Anyway, aside from the price, it being a PC is an advantage in my opinion; it probably just won't sell well anyway.

Just seems like such a strange thing to be hung up about. Being a PC means that it'll come with a ton of bonuses, like people aren't ready for the doors that will be opened.
And I know some of those keeping that topic going are actual PC gamers. It's like hearing a Linux fan say "It's just Linux" in a weird attempt to downplay Steam Machine.

 

[Shogmaster]

So Steam charges an extra $25 to run it on Steam Deck because of Deck Ready Certification? That's news to me. Better start explaining to me on other handhelds while you're at it, Asus, Lenovo, MSI.

Valve just tries to warn you to stay away from games run like dogshit on your Deck. If u go retard and try to run Borderlands 4 on yer Deck, Valve just shrugs.

Sony on the other hand will make sure games DONT run like dogshit on their devices. Some devs try real hard to, but mostly Sony does good job preventing it. The way they prevent it is by forcing devs to port or at least tweak the shit out of their engine and code. That work ain't free. It take time and effort. Devs want to get paid for that.

If Sony mandates all PS6 titles also run on PS6HH, there will be work done, and compensations will be made. $25, I pulled out of my ass, but there WILL be money charged to Sony, then Sony will pass it on to the consumers.

Also low IQ

no u

 

[slrbomber]

The solution cannot seriously be different bootable operating systems LMAO

Thats the most reliable solution actually!!

 

[Tobimacoss]

Valve just tries to warn you to stay away from games run like dogshit on your Deck. If u go retard and try to run Borderlands 4 on yer Deck, Valve just shrugs.

Sony on the other hand will nake sure gane DONT run like dogshit on their devices. Some devsvtry real hard to, but mostly Sony does good job preventing it. The way they prevent it is by forcing devs to port or at least tweak the shit out of their engine and code. That work ain't free. It take time and effort. Devs want to get paid for that, if Sony mandates all PS6 titles also run on PS6HH. $25, I pulled out of my ass, but there WILL be money charged to Sony, then Sony will pass it on to the consumers.


no u

Nah, Canis is 16 CU RDNA5 and 15 watts. Series S is 20 CU RDNA2 at 80-100 watts.

RDNA5 is 6 times more efficient in performance per watt. And a RDNA5 CU is much more powerful than RDNA2. The PS6 handheld should perform better than a Series S, as it only has to cater to a 1080/60 or 1080/120 screen. Plus it has all the upscaling tech.

Yes, it will be additional work for devs, but it's not impossible work. They can handle up to two SKUs. There's no extra charges.