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[simpatico]

Huh, I'd never thought about that part of it before So basically games would be streaming from a glorified console? That definitely would make it easier for developers.

In theory. There's still too many problems with streaming for it to actually work on the scale it'd need to in the real world, but yeah.

GeForce Now is there for me with most genres. If Sony put the same investment into the streaming tech as they do into the Playstation hardware, I think we'd closer than you think. Look at how fast software is moving now.

 

[uncreativename]

GeForce Now is there for me with most genres. If Sony put the same investment into the streaming tech as they do into the Playstation hardware, I think we'd closer than you think. Look at how fast software is moving now.

I haven't checked out GeForce Now, so I'll take your word for it.

The only streaming service I've used is Playstation Now which was uh, real bad, most of the time. But that was a while ago, before all this upscaling and frame generation tech came into play, so maybe even that's better now.

Still, though, are you playing on a rock-solid wired connection? A huge amount of people will be wireless and with less download speed.

 

[simpatico]

I haven't checked out GeForce Now, so I'll take your word for it.

The only streaming service I've used is Playstation Now which was uh, real bad, most of the time. But that was a while ago, before all this upscaling and frame generation tech came into play, so maybe even that's better now.

Still, though, are you playing on a rock-solid wired connection? A huge amount of people will be wireless and with less download speed.

Wifi, but I've got a good Wifi card and router set up. I don't know what the low end looks like, but you could totally get away with Uncharted-like games and not even notice. Who knows what specialized hardware could help with that. The console would just be really good decompression and networking chips. That almost feels more like the spirit of a console to me than the gaming laptops we got the past two gens.

 

[mckmas8808]

I haven't checked out GeForce Now, so I'll take your word for it.

The only streaming service I've used is Playstation Now which was uh, real bad, most of the time. But that was a while ago, before all this upscaling and frame generation tech came into play, so maybe even that's better now.

Still, though, are you playing on a rock-solid wired connection? A huge amount of people will be wireless and with less download speed.

If you are using the term PS Now, then yeah it's been a while for you . They stopped using that phrase like 4 years ago. It's alot better now.

 

[Gamezone]

I assume it's "profitable" in the same way as Gamepass. Meaning it's only actually profitable if a huge amount of people buy in.

I still don't get that, because they still have to upgrade those computers pretty often.

 

[Gamezone]

GeForce Now is there for me with most genres. If Sony put the same investment into the streaming tech as they do into the Playstation hardware, I think we'd closer than you think. Look at how fast software is moving now.

So you don't mind the latency, that's find. There are people out there who also play games in 30 FPS. But I usually game on a high end PC, and I can definitely feel the latency. I also don't want my games to look like a compressed YouTube clip.

 

[simpatico]

So you don't mind the latency, that's find. There are people out there who also play games in 30 FPS. But I usually game on a high end PC, and I can definitely feel the latency. I also don't want my games to look like a compressed YouTube clip.

It's one of those things, that if the game is good your brain forgets about in 10 minutes of playing. Honestly it's no more than playing on a mid range HDTV with shitty processing. Maybe I'm just close to a server, but I couldn't even tell if what I thought was lag was actually lag or just placebo. But I was playing AssCreed, not a twitch shooter.

Can you think of a better way to get a 5090 spec target in less than 15 years? I'm all ears. Because from the looks of PS6, 5070ish will be the spec target for the next decade. Which isn't super exciting.

 

[Gamezone]

It's one of those things, that if the game is good your brain forgets about in 10 minutes of playing. Honestly it's no more than playing on a mid range HDTV with shitty processing. Maybe I'm just close to a server, but I couldn't even tell if what I thought was lag was actually lag or just placebo. But I was playing AssCreed, not a twitch shooter.

Can you think of a better way to get a 5090 spec target in less than 15 years? I'm all ears. Because from the looks of PS6, 5070ish will be the spec target for the next decade. Which isn't super exciting.

Even if you like streaming, like hardware, it won't stay that way forever. Imagine a scenario where streaming dominates the market. They will just keep raising the prices. And the 100 hour limit you have today could easily become 50 or less.

Also we're at a point where graphics haven't advanced much in years. You could literally run AAA games with good graphics natively from an iPhone. My son is using a RTX 2070 on a 1080p monitor with no issues at all. As I parent I would rather have a few potato desktops in my home, rather than a bunch a subscription that will probably increase in price and restrictions anyway.

 

[joshwaan]

Yeah... no bud

 

[Hoddi]

'The solution to life's difficulties is to simply end it.'

Thanks, Mr. Pachter.

 

[wipeout364]

I watch Pachter's episodes occasionally on YouTube and I find he has tunnel vision on a lot of his theories. He has been spouting the streaming stuff for years. I have a decent internet connection and honestly have always found streaming a really bad alternative to having a game installed. It's really bad and I have used PlayStations and Xbox services.

Also Pachter was all in on the "everything is an Xbox" which to me as a primary Xbox gamer was a horrible approach for the console and the complete destruction of demand for the console shows it was a terrible idea.

I honestly have to wonder if Pachter actually plays games, I am trying to think of him talking about a game he likes outside of discussing its sales numbers. If he didn't actually play much it would explain a lot of his weird takes because no real gamer would hope for a streaming only future.

 

[simpatico]

Even if you like streaming, like hardware, it won't stay that way forever. Imagine a scenario where streaming dominates the market. They will just keep raising the prices. And the 100 hour limit you have today could easily become 50 or less.

Also we're at a point where graphics haven't advanced much in years. You could literally run AAA games with good graphics natively from an iPhone. My son is using a RTX 2070 on a 1080p monitor with no issues at all. As I parent I would rather have a few potato desktops in my home, rather than a bunch a subscription that will probably increase in price and restrictions anyway.

I'm seeing it as a future where this is only for the triplest of triple A. Quintuple A even. You'd still get your indie stuff on Steam. But when Bungie or DICE or whoever still exists wants to release some big blockbuster, they wouldn't have to be constrained by economical tech targets.

Look at it this way, PS6 is a 5070 at best. That locks us into every multiplatform game for next 10 years being made to run on mid level shit that is out today. If PS7 improves on the PS6 the same amount it improves on the PS5, we still might not be there then. Maybe it's my advanced age informing my thinking here, but streaming is the only hope at seeing a "next gen" in my lifetime.

 

[Gamezone]

I'm seeing it as a future where this is only for the triplest of triple A. Quintuple A even. You'd still get your indie stuff on Steam. But when Bungie or DICE or whoever still exists wants to release some big blockbuster, they wouldn't have to be constrained by economical tech targets.

Look at it this way, PS6 is a 5070 at best. That locks us into every multiplatform game for next 10 years being made to run on mid level shit that is out today. If PS7 improves on the PS6 the same amount it improves on the PS5, we still might not be there then. Maybe it's my advanced age informing my thinking here, but streaming is the only hope at seeing a "next gen" in my lifetime.

I'm sure streaming will be avaliable for those who want to use it. It's been around for a very long time, and the death of Stadia, and recently Luna (or probably) proves that it's niche, and haven't really caught up. We have been trough a rough time with expensive GPS's before, and cloud gaming still didn't grow all that much.

 

[old-parts]

Geforce Now seems to be doing well to the point of Nvidia have capacity issues with too much demand and not enough servers.

The Geforce and Xbox model seems to work best as a companion to an existing platform, just pure service on its own with no connection to gaming doesn't work out.

Eventually at some point as an example a new TV you buy will power on by pressing Xbox controller and automatically boot into an Xbox or Steam interface that streams games.

Samsung 2025 TV's can be powered on by Xbox controller already but don't know if they have a virtual console experience.

 

[simpatico]

I'm sure streaming will be avaliable for those who want to use it. It's been around for a very long time, and the death of Stadia, and recently Luna (or probably) proves that it's niche, and haven't really caught up. We have been trough a rough time with expensive GPS's before, and cloud gaming still didn't grow all that much.

That doesn't help anyone. You guys are too poor to create the demand for a 5090 powered console. Unless everyone is streaming, the big developers still have to make the PS4 games they're making now.

 

[Gamezone]

That doesn't help anyone. You guys are too poor to create the demand for a 5090 powered console. Unless everyone is streaming, the big developers still have to make the PS4 games they're making now.

I love how you think it's feasible for the entire world to move to cloud gaming.

 

[simpatico]

I love how you think it's feasible for the entire world to move to cloud gaming.

We could say the same thing about high spec gaming. The Moore's Law deal made is so we're stuck in the eternal gen for economic reasons too. Both of those roads are tough to hoe; I just think streaming is less so. We can see the next 20 years of mass market gaming right now if streaming doesn't step in. That condition is a new paradigm for game consumers. We've never known what the next 20 years looks like. Now we do, and it's just a 5090. And that's because we're living in the world of everyone doing their own processing. It takes more and more resources to get that silicon into every house in Kansas. One fiber cable just seems more realistic.

 

[Gamezone]

Wifi, but I've got a good Wifi card and router set up. I don't know what the low end looks like, but you could totally get away with Uncharted-like games and not even notice. Who knows what specialized hardware could help with that. The console would just be really good decompression and networking chips. That almost feels more like the spirit of a console to me than the gaming laptops we got the past two gens.

Cloud gaming have to work well on wifi, simply because every device can't be hard wired, but wifi and internet connectivity alone will introduce their own problems. People who live in crowded buildings will have lots of wifi interference. It will cause stuttering. Many people don't own their homes. They simply have to settle with the crappy router and internet connection that their landlord provides, and maybe the router is close enough for decent movie streaming and web browsing, or maybe not. A few weeks ago my sister asked me why her son's Roblox is lagging. I know it's caused by their shitty wifi router, but they are shit out of luck because they don't own the equipment that causes it.

 

[Det]

Cloud gaming have to work well on wifi, simply because every device can't be hard wired, but wifi and internet connectivity alone will introduce their own problems. People who live in crowded buildings will have lots of wifi interference. It will cause stuttering. Many people don't own their homes. They simply have to settle with the crappy router and internet connection that their landlord provides, and maybe the router is close enough for decent movie streaming and web browsing, or maybe not. A few weeks ago my sister asked me why her son's Roblox is lagging. I know it's caused by their shitty wifi router, but they are shit out of luck because they don't own the equipment that causes it.

And good luck explaining how Wi-Fi works to a Netflix "consumer" wanting to play games via streaming.

Then explain to them that paying a subscription for 4 years costs the same as BUYING a console and try to explain to them that this is a good deal.

 

[RafterXL]

It's a shitty solution. Game streaming only works as a niche product. There isn't enough infrastructure to make it feasible past that point, and in order to get to that point would cost so much investment from the companies providing it that the experience would get substantially worse for the customers. We already see usage limits, but you could bet we'd see substantial price increases, ADs, and whatever other shit they can come up with to help pay for the product. And that's before you even get into the whole internet situation in large parts of the world. I think pushing streaming as the future of gaming is equivalent to having a cure that is worse than the disease.

 

[Gamezone]

And good luck explaining how Wi-Fi works to a Netflix "consumer" wanting to play games via streaming.

Then explain to them that paying a subscription for 4 years costs the same as BUYING a console and try to explain to them that this is a good deal.

Might as well buy the console in down payments.

 

[Gamezone]

It's a shitty solution. Game streaming only works as a niche product. There isn't enough infrastructure to make it feasible past that point, and in order to get to that point would cost so much investment from the companies providing it that the experience would get substantially worse for the customers. We already see usage limits, but you could bet we'd see substantial price increases, ADs, and whatever other shit they can come up with to help pay for the product. And that's before you even get into the whole internet situation in large parts of the world. I think pushing streaming as the future of gaming is equivalent to having a cure that is worse than the disease.

Of course. And there are people protecting cloud gaming as the future in this thread.

 

[simpatico]

And good luck explaining how Wi-Fi works to a Netflix "consumer" wanting to play games via streaming.

Then explain to them that paying a subscription for 4 years costs the same as BUYING a console and try to explain to them that this is a good deal.

Most of the PS5 owners are not tech literate enough to know the PS6 they're being offered is the biggest side-grade in the history of next gen consoles. Almost feels like a consolation prize. "at least the APU is in my house, even if I'm not allowed to use it for all the things it is capable of". An open mind might look at the tech benefits of being able to play far more complex games than what they'd be stuck with if they were doing the processing locally. If the experience is the same: stand up, press power button box. wait for box to boot. select game. play game, then why does it matter? It's almost a participation trophy.

To be very clear, I don't "like" or "prefer" streaming, it just seems like the most realistic means to the end I want, which is a true next gen. No one has provided an alternate means of how to get there in this thread. They're just sticking their heads in the sand and pretending the slated PS6 specs aren't an extension of the PS5 gen.

 

[Baemono]

I watch Pachter's episodes occasionally on YouTube and I find he has tunnel vision on a lot of his theories. He has been spouting the streaming stuff for years. I have a decent internet connection and honestly have always found streaming a really bad alternative to having a game installed. It's really bad and I have used PlayStations and Xbox services.

Also Pachter was all in on the "everything is an Xbox" which to me as a primary Xbox gamer was a horrible approach for the console and the complete destruction of demand for the console shows it was a terrible idea.

I honestly have to wonder if Pachter actually plays games, I am trying to think of him talking about a game he likes outside of discussing its sales numbers. If he didn't actually play much it would explain a lot of his weird takes because no real gamer would hope for a streaming only future.

Pachter's opinion is basically your average Joe's view on the world when it's 10 PM in his local bar and he's drinking his 7th beer

 

[Gamezone]

Most of the PS5 owners are not tech literate enough to know the PS6 they're being offered is the biggest side-grade in the history of next gen consoles. Almost feels like a consolation prize. "at least the APU is in my house, even if I'm not allowed to use it for all the things it is capable of". An open mind might look at the tech benefits of being able to play far more complex games than what they'd be stuck with if they were doing the processing locally. If the experience is the same: stand up, press power button box. wait for box to boot. select game. play game, then why does it matter? It's almost a participation trophy.

To be very clear, I don't "like" or "prefer" streaming, it just seems like the most realistic means to the end I want, which is a true next gen. No one has provided an alternate means of how to get there in this thread. They're just sticking their heads in the sand and pretending the slated PS6 specs aren't an extension of the PS5 gen.

But the experience is not the same. There's latency. I can also see artifacts after movement inside games. There's also no offline mode along with the wifi issues I mentioned in my previous post. They will also increase the price and add more limitation. That's using a new wifi 7 router and a fast connection.

 

[Det]

Most of the PS5 owners are not tech literate enough to know the PS6 they're being offered is the biggest side-grade in the history of next gen consoles. Almost feels like a consolation prize. "at least the APU is in my house, even if I'm not allowed to use it for all the things it is capable of". An open mind might look at the tech benefits of being able to play far more complex games than what they'd be stuck with if they were doing the processing locally. If the experience is the same: stand up, press power button box. wait for box to boot. select game. play game, then why does it matter? It's almost a participation trophy.

To be very clear, I don't "like" or "prefer" streaming, it just seems like the most realistic means to the end I want, which is a true next gen. No one has provided an alternate means of how to get there in this thread. They're just sticking their heads in the sand and pretending the slated PS6 specs aren't an extension of the PS5 gen.

"Let's talk about a console that doesn't even exist, so I can win the argument"

You should ask yourself why Astroturfing stopped talking about "Game Pass/xCloud, the Netflix of games."

 

[CrustyBritches]

Most of the PS5 owners are not tech literate enough to know the PS6 they're being offered is the biggest side-grade in the history of next gen consoles. Almost feels like a consolation prize. "at least the APU is in my house, even if I'm not allowed to use it for all the things it is capable of". An open mind might look at the tech benefits of being able to play far more complex games than what they'd be stuck with if they were doing the processing locally. If the experience is the same: stand up, press power button box. wait for box to boot. select game. play game, then why does it matter? It's almost a participation trophy.

To be very clear, I don't "like" or "prefer" streaming, it just seems like the most realistic means to the end I want, which is a true next gen. No one has provided an alternate means of how to get there in this thread. They're just sticking their heads in the sand and pretending the slated PS6 specs aren't an extension of the PS5 gen.

The jump from PS5 to PS6 will be like going from a RX 6700 to a 5070 Ti/5080. That's not even close to being a side-grade.

 

[simpatico]

The jump from PS5 to PS6 will be like going from a RX 6700 to a 5070 Ti/5080. That's not even close to being a side-grade.

So in other words it won't get you access to a single game that was unplayable before. Just a couple settings bumped up one notch.

 

[CrustyBritches]

So in other words it won't get you access to a single game that was unplayable before. Just a couple settings bumped up one notch.

Aren't you talking about 2 different things? Game engine scalability vs hardware performance increase.

 

[buttnuggett]

Shit Pachter can suck my non-streaming ass. The day I can't do local gaming is the day I find a new hobby.

 

[Krathoon]

I do like how XBox is offering cloud gaming with Gamepass.
You can now play Rare Replay from the cloud.
Unfortunately, the 360 games are not linked to Rare Replay. It acts like they are un-installed.
You have to play the Rare Replay versions of those games separatley.
It is a minor nuisance. I assume Rare Replay picks up the stats when you start it after playing those versions of the games.

 

[Azelover]

Why is it so easy to predict what this man says.. when I started reading the title I already had a pretty good idea of what he was going to spout.

He is a crony capitalist, basically..

 

[DavJay]

All subscription services prices will go up. It starts off well and they get greedy.

Like Gamepass, Netflix, etc.

I rather pay once for an overpriced console and be done without.

 

[Starbuck2907]

It's already the solution. Xbox gamepass is built into my tv. Works pretty well.

 

[CrustyBritches]

All subscription services prices will go up. It starts off well and they get greedy.

Like Gamepass, Netflix, etc.

I rather pay once for an overpriced console and be done without.

Yeah, it was all good when GP Ultimate could be had for $60/year. Now it's like $30/month. I stacked a few years, but when sub runs out I won't be renewing at the current price. Rather buy $360 a year of games and play on the hardware I already have. EGS and Prime Gaming, along with Steam deals killed my need for GP.

And I swear xCloud has gotten worse. Played it the other night via Xbox App on my laptop and it looked and played poorly compared to a couple years ago when they first switched to XSX hardware.

 

[Gamezone]

So in other words it won't get you access to a single game that was unplayable before. Just a couple settings bumped up one notch.

Yeah, that sounds like a modern console generation. We have reached a point where graphics haven't improved all that much for quite some time. That's probably why we're able to run modern game natively on a phone.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

"i've been predicting the end of consoles for oever ten years"
So, for over ten years you've been wrong? this aint really a selling point on you been correct about anything.
I've been predicting i'd win the lottery since its inception, not won shit yet.