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[CGNoire]

I am pretty sure whatever glow they have has a cost on the gpu. Particles typically do.

That said, i pointed out exactly why i find it so impressive, but If you dont find the gif impressive, i dont think i can convince you otherwise.

The more I think about it its might be the overlapping alphas of the particles that are eating up bandwidth. Something about modern rendering tech doesn't seem to play nice with alphas. (Spiderman 2 sand effects). Hmmmm...

 

[CGNoire]

Man, imagine Anvil engine in central Europe. Would that be Austria? Czech republic? Amazing architecture in those cities in the 1600s. Ubisoft Montreal did the original Black Flag, AC Origins and Valhalla. Shame all their directors are leaving, maybe they shouldnt have fired the director behind those 3 games just because he had an extra marital affair. And now 3 of his replacements cannot deliver a game in 6 years.

no clint hocking

 

[setoman]

Looks near 1:1 with the final game to me, just with higher draw distance and different tonemapping / higher contrast. Ngl, the trailer feels kind of dated graphically nowadays.

that's because u dont belong in this thread.

 

[T4keD0wN]

that's because u dont belong in this thread.

Or maybe i am just used to playing games at higher settings than even many trailers use so it looks a bit old to me.
Cant do this with open world Avatar, but here you got the trailers for the best looking UE5 game vs what it actually looks like for me:

 

[SlimySnake]

The more I think about it its might be the overlapping alphas of the particles that are eating up bandwidth. Something about modern rendering tech doesn't seem to play nice with alphas. (Spiderman 2 sand effects). Hmmmm...

I vaguely remember df guys talking about how particle effects are bandwidth heavy.

 

[SlimySnake]

Come on, you can't let them get away with this.
It literally says "Game Footage Powered by Snowdrop"



Its avatar and its not close.

Keyword: "Game footage"

Imagine if Remedy or any other studio released their game with that label. Say for example alan wake 2.
And it comes out not looking even close. No one would give them the latitude of not crucifying them. It seems like there is ubisoft fatigue in the sense that they do this so much that no one is even interested in discussing/acknowledging their downgrades anymore.



Path tracing is just one of the many effects 15+ that contributes to a game looking nextgen.
A game doesn't just look next gen because it has path tracing. if you added path tracing to the current avatar it will still look no where near that trailer. not even close.

Why? there are dozens of other effects that made up that initial trailer that is either completely gone or complexity has been gutted.
For example while the object density is still there, the object fidelity (higher polygon / roundness) were gutted. Thats why one aspect.
Then you have cloud rendering, volumetrics, shadows, translucency, complex material shaders, water shaders, subsurface scattering, landscape quality, whether, reflections, pom/tessalation, completely different asset models, vfx with contributing lights and self shadowing, things that were complex materials are now baked down to simple textures, etc

Take for example the grass in the avatar demo is completely different from the one in the release. It looked like it was running some complex fur shader. path tracing is not gonna bring that back.

The same thing applies to 007 first light. sure you can slap pathtracing on top. but did you cut effects and shaders from the rest of the game? That's what matters. notice in the comparison you posted the difference of suit (cloth shading) of both bond and the other guy. Or the wooden staircase arm that isn't wooden in the latest trailer.

Mark my words it will be downgraded.

Skull and bones literally looks last gen compared to the blackflag reveal

I see, i remember it saying Game Engine footage for some reason. Yeah, if they tried to pass this off as gameplay then its really bad. They didnt do that with shadows though.

Im with you on James Bond. It looks downgraded, but path tracing will make other things in the trailer look better. Not all of it, but some of it. you mentioned shaders, well path tracing enhances materials and shadows so it will definitely have moments where the game looks better than what we saw from the ps5 demo last year.

EDIT: watching this trailer, and only the very first shot and the very last shot are the ones that appear completely downgraded. like they are from a completely different game altogether. the rest look to be more ingame especially if you've played the DLC with those big Rhino beasts roaming around. It's that last shot that just looks like it was rendered on a super computer because i dont think even path tracing fixes the density and shading of that foliage. i remember asking the tech director of that game on twitter about the downgrade and he never replied back despite me being one of the five comments on his tweet lol. clearly pre-rendered.

 

[Luipadre]

I see, i remember it saying Game Engine footage for some reason. Yeah, if they tried to pass this off as gameplay then its really bad. They didnt do that with shadows though.

Im with you on James Bond. It looks downgraded, but path tracing will make other things in the trailer look better. Not all of it, but some of it. you mentioned shaders, well path tracing enhances materials and shadows so it will definitely have moments where the game looks better than what we saw from the ps5 demo last year.

007 will be more than fine on PC with PT.

 

[BlownUpRich]

Lol…people really thought that these gaming companies & studios aren't going to dip their toes into applications that are literally changing the landscape of how companies conduct themselves now, they also cut development times by an exponential amount!

I will say I am against using generated art assets (by that, I mean generating music, textures, levels & world design/layout) as they are not a creation from human imagination, any sane artist knows that & therefore wouldn't want to refute themselves or their work.

However, I am perfectly Okay with using generative AI to render vastly more elaborate graphical quality WHILE preserving artistic integrity, you have to have the game's skeletal features 1st. Neural Rendering is all about that and all gaming companies are heading towards this prospect. DLSS 5 is an ambitious project albeit with some questionable results around faces and that is due to it not being fully aware of the 3D pipeline…yet, but it is the beginning towards a future where artists can fully tap into their creativity by getting the closest to their concept art pieces. The more power you give them, the more freedom they can have.

 

[ChiefDada]

Interesting DF Direct coming up. F1 developers showcased a demo of PS5 Pro running F1 with path tracing using a prototype path tracer; 1080p internal res upscaled to 4k via PSSR, ~40fps+. The devs thanked Mark Cerny so it seems like he had some involvement.

 

[Bojji]

Interesting DF Direct coming up. F1 developers showcased a demo of PS5 Pro running F1 with path tracing using a prototype path tracer; 1080p internal res upscaled to 4k via PSSR, ~40fps+. The devs thanked Mark Cerny so it seems like he had some involvement.

It's not available for mortals yet?

PT on Pro is very impressive. Minecraft had PT on SX but it was minecraft so...

 

[nkill20]

I vaguely remember df guys talking about how particle effects are bandwidth heavy.

Thats why Returnal was low res.

 

[BlownUpRich]

Doesn't this look next-gen? Reminds me of that Uncharted 4 chapter where you drive on a boat with Sam. But in an open-world with much higher fidelity. It's crazy!

 

[ChiefDada]

It's not available for mortals yet?

Should be released on Monday.

 

[CGNoire]

Doesn't this look next-gen? Reminds me of that Uncharted 4 chapter where you drive on a boat with Sam. But in an open-world with much higher fidelity. It's crazy!

not enough wind for a beach.
real beaches are far more windy than that.

 

[Cumulus]

Doesn't this look next-gen?

Pretty High-Quality, yes, next gen, no. Definitely not better than AC:Shadows which, no doubt, had a higher budget when you`re looking at some of the the assets f.e..
The lighting in a lot of the gameplay scenes available so far also looks ...bad/wrong... despite it supposedly using RTGI and athmospherics of all kind seem very sparse/absent. The limitations of the current gen are very visbile.

 

[Vick]

Interesting DF Direct coming up. F1 developers showcased a demo of PS5 Pro running F1 with path tracing using a prototype path tracer; 1080p internal res upscaled to 4k via PSSR, ~40fps+.

Very interesting.

The devs thanked Mark Cerny so it seems like he had some involvement.

Well I'd like to thank him as well, this man's latest machine got me Cyberpunk running at the same 1440p native resolution of base PS5 30fps Quality mode, before PSSR even steps in, with two additional full quality (important distinction, max quality) RT features on top, at exactly twice the framerate at the same time.

Also a matter of CDPR putting other devs to shame however, especially Sony first party studios.
They really managed to get the most intricate urban free roam ever running at 60fps, with unparalleled motion clarity, RT reflections of a far higher quality than Insomniacs (only PS Studio bothering with them so far), and impeccable RT shadows those first party games can only dream of, applied to every single object on screen no matter how small, how far, or how complex the scene is.

All gameplay from 60fps Mode, in some pictures I simply had the HUD removed entirely:

This the 60fps Mode, but then there's the 40fps one with, same internal resolution, but also RT AO and two RT GI features on top.
RT lighting, shadows, ambient occlusion and reflections is essentially full ray tracing, just because Path Tracing in Cyberpunk is a different beast doesn't change that I could see a much, much simpler game like F1 having a form of Path Tracing on the system.

 

[SlimySnake]

Pretty High-Quality, yes, next gen, no. Definitely not better than AC:Shadows which, no doubt, had a higher budget when you`re looking at some of the the assets f.e..
The lighting in a lot of the gameplay scenes available so far also looks ...bad/wrong... despite it supposedly using RTGI and athmospherics of all kind seem very sparse/absent. The limitations of the current gen are very visbile.

Watch the B roll footage Msamy posted a few pages ago. Lots of volumetric effects in those clips. the game has dynamic weather now too.

 

[SlimySnake]

Looks like a huge upgrade but the real question is if this is worth a two generation leap?

360 was roughly 250 gflops. XSX is 10,210 gflops. Thats a 40x increase in graphics in terms of raw tflops. IPC gains put it roughly in the 60-80x range.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

EDIT: Case in point, this brief clip of Exodus just released today. May not be pushing as much detail as Black Flags, but my god look at how CG this lighting looks.

I have been waiting for you guys to take notice since I posted about it weeks ago...

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Looks near 1:1 with the final game to me, just with higher draw distance and different tonemapping / higher contrast. Ngl, the trailer feels kind of dated graphically nowadays.

No way it doesn't look like that and that doesn't look dated to me. Maybe it looks close to that on a 5090?

 

[Represent.]

Looks like a huge upgrade but the real question is if this is worth a two generation leap?

360 was roughly 250 gflops. XSX is 10,210 gflops. Thats a 40x increase in graphics in terms of raw tflops. IPC gains put it roughly in the 60-80x range.

One generation, wasn't this a PS4 game?

 

[Jack Howitzer]

One generation, wasn't this a PS4 game?

ps3 crossgen, same deal like gta v

 

[SlimySnake]

One generation, wasn't this a PS4 game?l

lol you really think that looks like a ps4 game?

 

[Msamy]

Lol, Those lazy ass cunts take easy way and choose easy UE5 way, instead of develop thier own very good tech,( they have more than 14 years to do that lol)

Alien: Isolation 2 will use Unreal Engine 5 and not the Cathode Engine

According to Creative Assembly, Alien Isolation 2 will be powered by Unreal Engine 5, and not by the Cathode Engine.

www.dsogaming.com

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Lol, Those lazy ass cunts take easy way and choose easy UE5 way, instead of develop thier own very good tech,( they have more than 14 years to do that lol)

Alien: Isolation 2 will use Unreal Engine 5 and not the Cathode Engine

According to Creative Assembly, Alien Isolation 2 will be powered by Unreal Engine 5, and not by the Cathode Engine.

www.dsogaming.com

I am not fan of UE5, but a linear slow paced horror game is perfect for it. UE5 is also simpler to use for studios. It doesn't take months to train new employees to learn a new engine. The hiring pool is much greater because so many programmers are already familiar with Unreal

 

[Toots]

Remember that GTA VI AI slop making rounds this past week?

The Joker strikes (out due to dmca takedown) again

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

The Joker strikes (out due to dmca takedown) again

 

[BlownUpRich]

Remember that GTA VI AI slop making rounds this past week?

Turns out he actually faked this one too. He has always been a clout chasing bitch. I was hoping the cease & desist was real.

 

[Toots]

Turns out he actually faked this one too. He has always been a clout chasing bitch. I was hoping the cease & desist was real.

The Joker strikes (out due to dmca takedown) again

 

[SlimySnake]

Remember that GTA VI AI slop making rounds this past week?

So this AI slop is banned, but what nvidia does is ok?

At least this was trained on released footage and screenshot from the game. Nvidia's DLSS5 model is trained on real life that has nothing to do with the art style of GTA6.

 

[Buggy Loop]

So this AI slop is banned, but what nvidia does is ok?

At least this was trained on released footage and screenshot from the game. Nvidia's DLSS5 model is trained on real life that has nothing to do with the art style of GTA6.

 

[GymWolf]

You people have quick amnesia, when this launches it will be completely downgraded. Mark my words.
It will look nothing like this.

People will say, but its 2 months away... I guaranfukingtee you it will be downgraded.

I already see it now. all those volumetric, the lighting. kiss that good bye, you're not seeing that period.

It doesnt look nearly as unbelievable as you think to deserve a huge downgrade
This is not gta6 level of trailer.

This thing is gonna look like shadow or a bit worse\better,

 

[SlimySnake]

It doesnt look nearly as unbelievable as you think to deserve a huge downgrade
This is not gta6 level of trailer.

This thing is gonna look like shadow or a bit worse\better,

i think with path tracing and ray reconstruction becoming the norm on PCs, downgrades are going to be replaced by upgrades in games that support them. Yes, you will always have stuff like Outlaws where devs just made shit up, but as we approach next generation, console games are going to start getting those path tracing improvements as well. especially if the rumors of a 2027 PS6 are true. They already got path tracing to run on a shitty PS5 pro. PS6 has way better path tracing performance.

a good example is Cyberpunk. We all thought it was going to get downgraded but by the time it came out, it had ray tracing features not in that original gameplay demo, and in a few years they had path tracing that enhanced some areas even more. i suspect most UE5 games coming out later this year or next year will be software lumen on current gen consoles, and feature hardware lumen on next gen consoles with ray reconstruction. i was surprised to see RR in Samson. First UE5 game to feature it i believe.

 

[archangelmorph]

ps3 crossgen, same deal like gta v

GTA V was canonically a PS3 game.

It simply got a later PS4 remaster and got milked for an entire generation, because R* were raking in so much money from GTA Online.

 

[SlimySnake]

GTA V was canonically a PS3 game.

It simply got a later PS4 remaster and got milked for an entirely generation, because R* were raking in so much money from GTA Online.

Same thing is true for AC Black Flag. it was a ps3 game that was launched on the PS4 and X1 because it came out the same month as the launch of those consoles. Just a couple of months after GTA5.

They technically shouldnt even be considered cross gen. Something like Watch Dogs yes since it was essentially downported on last gen consoles. But Black Flag is essentially a ps360 title that was downgraded and the next gen ports didnt get the non-downgraded version.

 

[Bojji]

Black flag is a ps3 game but PS4/PC versions looked quite differently and had "next gen" foliage and weather effects on top of PS3 geometry. I think the difference was bigger than with GTA5.

 

[SlimySnake]

Black flag is a ps3 game but PS4/PC versions looked quite differently and had "next gen" foliage and weather effects on top of PS3 geometry. I think the difference was bigger than with GTA5.

wow the upgrades are larger than i remembered. i stand corrected.

 

[Bojji]

wow the upgrades are larger than i remembered. i stand corrected.

The wet surface shader was the biggest difference for me. I played PC version ~launch with sweet HBAO+

 

[setoman]

I am not fan of UE5, but a linear slow paced horror game is perfect for it. UE5 is also simpler to use for studios. It doesn't take months to train new employees to learn a new engine. The hiring pool is much greater because so many programmers are already familiar with Unreal

nah i disagree. see i used to be one of those people who pushed UE5 especially after the PS5 demo. But it clearly hasn't lived up to the expections.
There has been literally only one graphical game from UE5 the entire gen. ONE. And that's hellblade 2.

secondly the games all look samey (robocop look like samson and vice versa).

But when you look at the top tier graphical games this gen, they all have different look which i love.
AW2 look different than Avatar, which looks diff from resident evil, etc. the different renderers is actually a huge PLUS.

So no UE5 has been a huge let down.

 

[Bojji]

From that F1 presentation

 

[SlimySnake]

nah i disagree. see i used to be one of those people who pushed UE5 especially after the PS5 demo. But it clearly hasn't lived up to the expections.
There has been literally only one graphical game from UE5 the entire gen. ONE. And that's hellblade 2.

secondly the games all look samey (robocop look like samson and vice versa).

But when you look at the top tier graphical games this gen, they all have different look which i love.
AW2 look different than Avatar, which looks diff from resident evil, etc. the different renderers is actually a huge PLUS.

So no UE5 has been a huge let down.

?? What? Have you played Wukong? Silent Hill 2?

 

[coachmcguirk91]

nah i disagree. see i used to be one of those people who pushed UE5 especially after the PS5 demo. But it clearly hasn't lived up to the expections.
There has been literally only one graphical game from UE5 the entire gen. ONE. And that's hellblade 2.

secondly the games all look samey (robocop look like samson and vice versa).

But when you look at the top tier graphical games this gen, they all have different look which i love.
AW2 look different than Avatar, which looks diff from resident evil, etc. the different renderers is actually a huge PLUS.

So no UE5 has been a huge let down.

?? What? Have you played Wukong? Silent Hill 2?

 

[Luipadre]

Just played an hour of saros on a 4K oled set. As expected the game looks stunning in motion and the HDR is stellar

 

[SABRE220]

Very interesting.


Well I'd like to thank him as well, this man's latest machine got me Cyberpunk running at the same 1440p native resolution of base PS5 30fps Quality mode, before PSSR even steps in, with two additional full quality (important distinction, max quality) RT features on top, at exactly twice the framerate at the same time.

Also a matter of CDPR putting other devs to shame however, especially Sony first party studios.
They really managed to get the most intricate urban free roam ever running at 60fps, with unparalleled motion clarity, RT reflections of a far higher quality than Insomniacs (only PS Studio bothering with them so far), and impeccable RT shadows those first party games can only dream of, applied to every single object on screen no matter how small, how far, or how complex the scene is.

All gameplay from 60fps Mode, in some pictures I simply had the HUD removed entirely:

This the 60fps Mode, but then there's the 40fps one with, same internal resolution, but also RT AO and two RT GI features on top.
RT lighting, shadows, ambient occlusion and reflections is essentially full ray tracing, just because Path Tracing in Cyberpunk is a different beast doesn't change that I could see a much, much simpler game like F1 having a form of Path Tracing on the system.

I was really surprised that CD project didn't go for an optimized/lite path tracing mode on the PS5 Pro for fidelity mode. They always go over and beyond with their console patch upgrades, and the optimized path tracing mod was working surprisingly well on a 3060 at close to 40fps.

I mean, bring the res down to 1080pish upscale that with pssr2, and I don't see why this this wouldnt be an option for 30fps fidelity rt mode. I had the same thought with the lack of ray reconstruction in Crimson desert the fidelity mode is wasting a massive amount of performance on the resolution and instead of the 4k mode they could drop the res down in fidelity mode utilize pssr2 to upscale and still get the shocking upgrade from RR while maintaining a pretty good image quality and before people jump in here sayng how heavy the benchmarks are keep in mind thats cinematic settings across the board beyond the ps5 pro settings which are high/ultra keeping the same settings with max lighting/rr should have been possible with reduced res in the 30fps mode.

I think it's a case of the developer tools for the PS5 Pro, for these two technologies just aren't there currently, and Cerny just started working on this with developers, as seen with F1. I wouldn't be surprised once we are closer to the PS6 launch, as they develop the tools utilizing this rt suite, there just might be some ps5 pro modes utilizing RR and optimized Path tracing modes with fewer bounces, etc. Of course, it won't be able to brute-force the path tracing modes on PC, but as tech advances and these techniques become the standard pipeline, I believe developers will make a lot of progress in performance gains,, even with trimmed pathtracing is impressive as the optimized path tracing mod showed in cyberpunk.

 

[SlimySnake]

Just played an hour of saros on a 4K oled set. As expected the game looks stunning in motion and the HDR is stellar

Man, im jealous. First i lost out on the Cashapp 50% discount because my bank kept rejecting the purchases thinking its fraud. And now i find out that i cant even buy it today because Sony's become greedy like MS and are charging an extra $10 to play the game on day one. I cant believe im willing to pay $70 for their games and they are making me feel like im poor. fuck em.

 

[ChiefDada]

Just played an hour of saros on a 4K oled set. As expected the game looks stunning in motion and the HDR is stellar

About to hop in now

 

[ChiefDada]

Ok yeah overall its beautiful. MUCH better environment visuals than Returnal. I was worried because thre first biome looked not so great on youtube but its much better actually playing. Facial animation sucks balls but body animation has gotten a major upgrade. And everything looks crispy thanks to PSSR. I dont remember what Returnal is running at post PS5 Pro patch but it isn't in the same league IQ wise.

 

[Bojji]

I was really surprised that CD project didn't go for an optimized/lite path tracing mode on the PS5 Pro for fidelity mode. They always go over and beyond with their console patch upgrades, and the optimized path tracing mod was working surprisingly well on a 3060 at close to 40fps.

I mean, bring the res down to 1080pish upscale that with pssr2, and I don't see why this this wouldnt be an option for 30fps fidelity rt mode. I had the same thought with the lack of ray reconstruction in Crimson desert the fidelity mode is wasting a massive amount of performance on the resolution and instead of the 4k mode they could drop the res down in fidelity mode utilize pssr2 to upscale and still get the shocking upgrade from RR while maintaining a pretty good image quality and before people jump in here sayng how heavy the benchmarks are keep in mind thats cinematic settings across the board beyond the ps5 pro settings which are high/ultra keeping the same settings with max lighting/rr should have been possible with reduced res in the 30fps mode.

I think it's a case of the developer tools for the PS5 Pro, for these two technologies just aren't there currently, and Cerny just started working on this with developers, as seen with F1. I wouldn't be surprised once we are closer to the PS6 launch, as they develop the tools utilizing this rt suite, there just might be some ps5 pro modes utilizing RR and optimized Path tracing modes with fewer bounces, etc. Of course, it won't be able to brute-force the path tracing modes on PC, but as tech advances and these techniques become the standard pipeline, I believe developers will make a lot of progress in performance gains,, even with trimmed pathtracing is impressive as the optimized path tracing mod showed in cyberpunk.

PT is another level when it comes to how demanding it is, and Pro can't really do that outside of tech demos.

Even basic RT lighting drops the game to 30/40fps on Pro and this is with partial implementation of RT reflections. I think at most they could drop res to 1080p and expand coverage of RT reflections to all surfaces, 40fps mode should be able to do this (I think, maybe also 60fps mode in 1080p?).

PT will appear on PS6 - I'm pretty sure about that.

 

[SABRE220]

PT is another level when it comes to how demanding it is, and Pro can't really do that outside of tech demos.

Even basic RT lighting drops the game to 30/40fps on Pro and this is with partial implementation of RT reflections. I think at most they could drop res to 1080p and expand coverage of RT reflections to all surfaces, 40fps mode should be able to do this (I think, maybe also 60fps mode in 1080p?).

PT will appear on PS6 - I'm pretty sure about that.

I mean, the path tracing lite mod was running on a 3060...do you really think the PS5 Pro is weaker? The 40fps mode is running at 1440p. We just had a game release at 840p uspscaled via PSSR2, and still have decent image quality. I really don't buy the blanket statement its not possible. I think the research and tools to attempt it aren't there yet and along with enough optimization, it can be done.

 

[Cumulus]

PT will appear on PS6 - I'm pretty sure about that.

Unfortunately that hardware will not nearly be strong enough to make it a default, so it will always be an afterthought or a PR feature, and we`ll have a very long crossgen period anyways.
Even with all the recent ...let`s call them promises.... regarding further optimizations I´m not expecting much from PT on that kind of performance budget.