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[GudOlRub]

Great analysis but till now we didnt even get proper gameplay vid, all screenies so far could be photomode/cutscene/in engine still 5x better than actual gameplay. We all know in engine or even realtime cutscenes can look even whole gen above actual gameplay.

Hellblade2(and before that amazing exceptional the order 1886) could look that good for very specific reasons, they were barely games, and open world gameplay vid in gta6 will likely lose way worse than ingame realtime cutscene(that by definition is even easier to run than corridor shooter/walking sim .

So again, i dont question screenies or those 2 trailers, just that actual proper gameplay(not in engine cutscenes or even real time cutscenes) usually look much better vs what i really want to see and compare, real time gameplay.

KK i will give link to gameplay, not very impressive visually but in terms of gameplay, its open world and i wanna see gta6 vid with this kind of aproach, real time gameplay and not even short snippets but sizeable video from same perspective how we gonna see and play it at launch:

U guys know what i mean here, i wanna see this kind of proper gameplay vid, so we can do proper like for like comparision vs launch current gen console and later ps6 and maxed pc versions
We got another gameplay vid from that studio even bit earlier, but lets just compare launch version(if no delay then 3rd sept) vs that end of april 2026 version.

Im focused on that coz usually when game launches and is hella downgraded(gotta be real here, possibility of ps5 or even pr0 version looking like trailer 1 or 2 isnt that huge, and probability of a downgrade, even if we talking quality mode ps5pr0 version that barely holds 30 and dips often, isnt small ) i want us to be able to hold rockstar accountable, meaning u guys fed us lies that gameplay looked like this, yet it looks much worse and very similar to other studio's games.

Hell even w4 demo gave us quite long proper gameplay snipped, supposedly running on base ps5 at 60 with rt

Yet gta6 is coming out in under 5 months and we get bunch of those screenies from god only knows which version of the game

What im trying to say, each day we dont see trailer no3, especially with some long gameplay, the probability increases of either nasty downgrade, delay to 2027 sometime or even both.

Sadly we'll probably only get GTA 6 gameplay in September at the earliest... I am quite confident we'll get Trailer 3 in July though. Then some off-hands media previews in August probably.

 

[viveks86]

Great analysis but till now we didnt even get proper gameplay vid, all screenies so far could be photomode/cutscene/in engine still 5x better than actual gameplay. We all know in engine or even realtime cutscenes can look even whole gen above actual gameplay.

Hellblade2(and before that amazing exceptional the order 1886) could look that good for very specific reasons, they were barely games, and open world gameplay vid in gta6 will likely lose way worse than ingame realtime cutscene(that by definition is even easier to run than corridor shooter/walking sim .

So again, i dont question screenies or those 2 trailers, just that actual proper gameplay(not in engine cutscenes or even real time cutscenes) usually look much better vs what i really want to see and compare, real time gameplay.

KK i will give link to gameplay, not very impressive visually but in terms of gameplay, its open world and i wanna see gta6 vid with this kind of aproach, real time gameplay and not even short snippets but sizeable video from same perspective how we gonna see and play it at launch:

U guys know what i mean here, i wanna see this kind of proper gameplay vid, so we can do proper like for like comparision vs launch current gen console and later ps6 and maxed pc versions
We got another gameplay vid from that studio even bit earlier, but lets just compare launch version(if no delay then 3rd sept) vs that end of april 2026 version.

Im focused on that coz usually when game launches and is hella downgraded(gotta be real here, possibility of ps5 or even pr0 version looking like trailer 1 or 2 isnt that huge, and probability of a downgrade, even if we talking quality mode ps5pr0 version that barely holds 30 and dips often, isnt small ) i want us to be able to hold rockstar accountable, meaning u guys fed us lies that gameplay looked like this, yet it looks much worse and very similar to other studio's games.

Hell even w4 demo gave us quite long proper gameplay snipped, supposedly running on base ps5 at 60 with rt

Yet gta6 is coming out in under 5 months and we get bunch of those screenies from god only knows which version of the game

What im trying to say, each day we dont see trailer no3, especially with some long gameplay, the probability increases of either nasty downgrade, delay to 2027 sometime or even both.

Of course. No disagreement with any of that. Just that given all the flaws we are seeing, none of this seems implausible to not also have in gameplay. R* games stopped having a big gap between cutscene and gameplay a while ago. We certainly need to see the gameplay to say for sure.

On a related note, I'm happy to see that Oliver is right after a long time, and he subtly schools Tom so he can get his eyes checked:

 

[GudOlRub]

Of course. No disagreement with any of that. Just that given all the flaws we are seeing, none of this seems implausible to not also have in gameplay. R* games stopped having a big gap between cutscene and gameplay a while ago. We certainly need to see the gameplay to say for sure.

On a related note, I'm happy to see that Oliver is right after a long time, and he subtly schools Tom so he can get his eyes checked:

What I find strange is that Tom published that article on DF's website and now they're contradicting one another during their podcast. You'd think they'd vet each other's work and only publish stuff like that when they reach a consensus

 

[viveks86]

What I find strange is that Tom published that article on DF's website and now they're contradicting one another during their podcast. You'd think they'd vet each other's work and only publish stuff like that when they reach a consensus

That would be nice indeed… I think at this point, they are all individual contributors and DF wants you to follow each of their "takes" and draw your own conclusions. More clicks. And allows them to recycle same content in print form, podcast form, professional video form etc. featuring different people, contradictions, retractions and apologies. There is no "DF take" anymore.

 

[Msamy]

Ah yes. Agreed. Totally forgot about them. Frostbite and Rage now have the best hair tech that's still practical on current gen.

For me I would but pragmata, Laufey alongside them.

 

[viveks86]

For me I would but pragmata, Laufey alongside them.

I think Pragmata/RE engine does not cover the range that Frostbite or Rage does. All we have seen so far are straight "noodle" strands or short hair. And they move in such a floaty and exaggerated fashion that it still feels a bit... immature.

I would say Laufey is further behind than RE. They haven't even figured out hair shadowing on her face or body yet. And it's super noisy at times. There is no direct shadow, no indirect shadow, no AO from the hair. The hair reacts beautifully to direct light, but it can't even get lit by their RTGI.

Notice how the GI bounce skips her hair entirely but only lights her face. There are other times when it shines directly on her face, through her hair, like her hair doesn't even exist. They have no proxies for hair strands in the BVH (which is the only way to currently pull off RTGI for hairstrands this gen). That's how RE engine solved it, by having a fully rasterized proxy in the BVH. They could either do the same or have some simplified version from their previous games as a proxy. Currently there seems to be none.

I think some of the issues I pointed above will get resolved by the time the game ships, though. We shall see. Currently RE >> SSM for hair.

As far as the BVH goes, she is currently balder than my waifu Jordan.

 

[SlimySnake]

What I find strange is that Tom published that article on DF's website and now they're contradicting one another during their podcast. You'd think they'd vet each other's work and only publish stuff like that when they reach a consensus

tom gets stuff wrong all the time. hes notorious for his incorrect pixel counts.

 

[GudOlRub]

That would be nice indeed… I think at this point, they are all individual contributors and DF wants you to follow each of their "takes" and draw your own conclusions. More clicks. And allows them to recycle same content in print form, podcast form, professional video form etc. featuring different people, contradictions, retractions and apologies. There is no "DF take" anymore.

tom gets stuff wrong all the time. hes notorious for his incorrect pixel counts.

I honestly think Richard needs to implement some system of peer reviewing in the company. I understand that perhaps they're overworked, understaffed and don't have the budget to hire all the necessary people to make a system like this work flawlessly but still.
Before Tom published that article they should've had Oliver or Alex or both reviewing it even if it meant losing precious time editing their podcasts and whatnot. Same for the DLSS5 debacle and the seemingly divided opinions within the company. Could've saved them a lot of trouble as well.

Now I was about to write something alluding to the fact that peer reviewing is crucial to be taken seriously as a professional organization but then again they are the most reputable youtube outlet on this particular niche genre of videogame reviewing and they seem to be just fine by working out stuff as they go so... Even Todd fucking Howard said that everyone in the industry listens to these guys so I guess it's not crucial after all.

 

[viveks86]

I honestly think Richard needs to implement some system of peer reviewing in the company. I understand that perhaps they're overworked, understaffed and don't have the budget to hire all the necessary people to make a system like this work flawlessly but still.
Before Tom published that article they should've had Oliver or Alex or both reviewing it even if it meant losing precious time editing their podcasts and whatnot. Same for the DLSS5 debacle and the seemingly divided opinions within the company. Could've saved them a lot of trouble as well.

Now I was about to write something alluding to the fact that peer reviewing is crucial to be taken seriously as a professional organization but then again they are the most reputable youtube outlet on this particular niche genre of videogame reviewing and they seem to be just fine by working out stuff as they go so... Even Todd fucking Howard said that everyone in the industry listens to these guys so I guess it's not crucial after all.

Agreed. They are getting paid for this, so they absolutely should be held to higher standards. We can say whatever we want as we are doing it just out of love for the tech.

But who will hold them to higher standards? Only their Patreon members can. The issue is, this is so far in the weeds that the majority wouldn't even know how to call them out for these fumbles.

 

[CGNoire]

I dropped Crimson Desert 20 hours in. Imagine spending years crafting a gorgeous world, only to force players to look at a giant, hideous, obnoxious, unhideable HUD the entire time. A simple HUD toggle would've fixed it. They fucking patched everything else in 20 minutes. Their refusal to add the most basic thing killed the game for me. Fuck that game

I cant do HUDs in games anymore. Immersion ruining. The only time its acceptable is fighting game. even then. let me remove that shit. Biggest pet peeve in gaming is a permament HUD. Dropped 007 because of it too.

Your God Damm Right!

The Getaway (2002) and Fight Night 3 (2006) already showed them the way but they didnt listen. Shit Sucks.

 

[Msamy]

I think Pragmata/RE engine does not cover the range that Frostbite or Rage does. All we have seen so far are straight "noodle" strands or short hair. And they move in such a floaty and exaggerated fashion that it still feels a bit... immature.

I would say Laufey is further behind than RE. They haven't even figured out hair shadowing on her face or body yet. And it's super noisy at times. There is no direct shadow, no indirect shadow, no AO from the hair. The hair reacts beautifully to direct light, but it can't even get lit by their RTGI.

Notice how the GI bounce skips her hair entirely but only lights her face. There are other times when it shines directly on her face, through her hair, like her hair doesn't even exist. They have no proxies for hair strands in the BVH (which is the only way to currently pull off RTGI for hairstrands this gen). That's how RE engine solved it, by having a fully rasterized proxy in the BVH. They could either do the same or have some simplified version from their previous games as a proxy. Currently there seems to be none.

I think some of the issues I pointed above will get resolved by the time the game ships, though. We shall see. Currently RE >> SSM for hair.

As far as the BVH goes, she is currently balder than my waifu Jordan.

Yes I agree with you on GI and AO skip hair when react with skin but I really like this and I think those missing improvements will be add by the time of it's release or on ps6

 

[CGNoire]

frostbite hair tech is amazing in dragon age.

Are we sure this hasnt been pre calculated for cutscenes?

 

[viveks86]

Yes I agree with you on GI and AO skip hair when react with skin but I really like this and I think those missing improvements will be add by the time of it's release or on ps6

We can agree on that. Aesthetically, I like this better than pragmata. It conveys art first instead of technology first. Creativity should always be the driving force for all this stuff. Not the other way around. Capcom did it right with RE 9 hair. Less so with Pragmata. Just my subjective opinion

 

[T4keD0wN]

Are we sure this hasnt been pre calculated for cutscenes?

Yes, it displays a custom character.

 

[SlimySnake]

So I finally bought Ghosts of Yotei during the summer sale, and my god i shouldnt have. This is worse than I ever thought it would be. Ugly low LOD trees. Terrible lighting that reminds me of the ps3 era. Awful combat animations. Awful cutscene facial animations. This is obviously a generation behind AC shadows, but i didnt realize it would be a generation behind other ps4 games. it is truly awful.

Death Stranding 2 and Spiderman 2 look next gen compared to this dated garbage. The only decent feature is the volumetric fog and smoke effects, but other than that, its the most PS3.5 game looking game ive ever seen. WTF happened to Sucker Punch??

 

[SlimySnake]

Your God Damm Right!

The Getaway (2002) and Fight Night 3 (2006) already showed them the way but they didnt listen. Shit Sucks.

I dropped Crimson Desert 20 hours in. Imagine spending years crafting a gorgeous world, only to force players to look at a giant, hideous, obnoxious, unhideable HUD the entire time. A simple HUD toggle would've fixed it. They fucking patched everything else in 20 minutes. Their refusal to add the most basic thing killed the game for me. Fuck that game

I cant do HUDs in games anymore. Immersion ruining. The only time its acceptable is fighting game. even then. let me remove that shit. Biggest pet peeve in gaming is a permament HUD. Dropped 007 because of it too.

it's really not that bad. its mostly limited to the bottom right of the screen during exploration. Game is in a much better state now too. had a rough launch but its mostly fine now in terms of graphics glitches.

 

[Gonzito]

So I finally bought Ghosts of Yotei during the summer sale, and my god i shouldnt have. This is worse than I ever thought it would be. Ugly low LOD trees. Terrible lighting that reminds me of the ps3 era. Awful combat animations. Awful cutscene facial animations. This is obviously a generation behind AC shadows, but i didnt realize it would be a generation behind other ps4 games. it is truly awful.

Death Stranding 2 and Spiderman 2 look next gen compared to this dated garbage. The only decent feature is the volumetric fog and smoke effects, but other than that, its the most PS3.5 game looking game ive ever seen. WTF happened to Sucker Punch??

Woke infestation. That's what happened to Sucker Punch.

 

[Gonzito]

Tech experts hahah

 

[SlimySnake]

Tech experts hahah

I'm no expert but I'm not going to be surprised if it ships with a 60 fps mode. No game this Gen had not had a 60 fps mode. The few that shipped without it got it patched. I think rockstar engineers can figure it out.

 

[viveks86]

Tech experts hahah

I'm 60/40 on chances in favor of a performance mode. But I want to be 100/0 just so we can see how DF handles the embarrassment.

 

[Gonzito]

I'm no expert but I'm not going to be surprised if it ships with a 60 fps mode. No game this Gen had not had a 60 fps mode. The few that shipped without it got it patched. I think rockstar engineers can figure it out.

I have a feeling that 60fps might not be possible but they might release a 40fps mode

We'll see

 

[Jack Howitzer]

Yo classic lame lod distance slaps graphics pimps in the face again and again! How about add some stuff to block the view for the love of Rkelly and Diddy if your game can't maintain basic graphical consistency with the map scale? Ever considering adding couple of small mountains and scale back the range of grass for once? Even Horizon style of thick fogs everywhere ain't gonna hurt our eyes this much you know!