ResetEraVetVIP
Member
It's still Artistic Intent...whats with everyone's want for bland looking games? Maybe some implementations are bad but stop with wanting all games looking the same...
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Awesome! Looks very good.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Hell no, this take is so stupid, I'm sorry, no offense, but what?
anyasok
Member
i get his point but i didnt want 007 to end. Such a fantastic game!
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Well then enjoy everything staying the same. Shorter games plus faster release schedules is the only common sense option. Why does every game need to be 20+ hours? Thats ridiculous
Gonzito
Gold Member
Lol so you are saying that CA help games look less bland?
Please tell me you are joking
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Can we agree this is the best fire in a game?
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
3-5 hours? That's nothing ...that's WAY too short for anything except a highly linear, story focused "experience" like Hellblade 2. Even a short game like The Order was like 8-10 hours.
You could forget about playing open world games or even wide-linear games at those lengths.
March Climber
Gold Member
Reminds me of Deep Down.
Can we agree this is the best fire in a game?
What game is your gif from?
samoilaaa
Member
Reminds me of Deep Down.
What game is your gif from?
wake the fuck up capcom we need this game back in development
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I cant believe they tried to pass that as real gameplay on a base PS4 lolReminds me of Deep Down.
What game is your gif from?
My gif is from Alien Isolation 2.
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March Climber
Gold Member
They actually played Deep Down on the PS4 during a Japanese showcase. Here is one of the moments they show the Dragon and flame (6:37 in the video):
I think the catch here is that there were only 4 or less enemies on the screen at any 1 time and the entire game was shown to take place in corridors.
Regardless, Capcom can be tech wizards sometimes and other times be very unoptimized. It is very interesting.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Yeah, but we've done that already, and this is where it's gotten us.
Try something new. Someone make an undeniably kick-ass 3-5 hour experience and sell it for 20 bucks. Bet it'd sell millions.
Give me a 3-5 hour game with the quality of P.T. or The Matrix Awakens demo.
Shit, speaking of, both of those were demos that were literally 10-20 minutes long, and look how much hype and discussion they generated. If you can't sniff out a recipe for success from that, then I don't know what to say.
Also, I said 3-5 hours and very replayable. That means they'd have to come up with new, unique, and exciting gameplay loops, combat scenarios, better AI, more verticality in combat, etc. Get creative. Think outside the box. It can be done.
I'm just thinking of new ways to refresh the medium, man. We've done the standard 8-10 hour campaign, we've done the 20+ hour slogfests, we've done the 100+ hour mega games...
There's one thing we haven't tried.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Let me put it this way....
If that Matrix Awakens demo was 5 hours long for 20 bucks, with those quality cutscenes, level of fidelity, physics, etc, us nerdy fucks in here would buy 2 copies each
So much hype generated from a 20 minute tech demo. 6+ million downloads. I would LOVE an experiment type project where the likes of say, CDPR goes all out on a 5 hour game. See what they can do.
If that Matrix Awakens demo was 5 hours long for 20 bucks, with those quality cutscenes, level of fidelity, physics, etc, us nerdy fucks in here would buy 2 copies each
So much hype generated from a 20 minute tech demo. 6+ million downloads. I would LOVE an experiment type project where the likes of say, CDPR goes all out on a 5 hour game. See what they can do.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Whatever, take price out of the equation, just give me the game
geary
Gold Member
Then a five-hour game priced at $50–$70 is even tougher to sell to players.
Critical Hit
Member
I think we'll find out in August when Ray Reconstruction 4.5 is released.
There is no game. It could easily be downgraded.
Luipadre
Gold Member
No mention on the awful textures on the hand and gun model? Im disappointedCrazy how good this level of Halo Campaign Evolved looks
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PeteBull
Member
Atlantis is made by polish team, they all are busy ants working around the clock high lvls of crunch included, so no worries, polish devteam will deliver, catalyst made by westerners ofc gonna have huge delay/super long devtime, even ND couldnt escape that as a western team
Bojji
Member
It's not artistic intent but idiotic intent, game looks like crap with it (one of the worst IQ in recent games).
Not every artist is on the same level, you have to remember that.
Enabling strong CA, FG and other shit effects is just a lazy ass job and everyone else is doing it.
Critical Hit
Member
Anyone who defends chromatic aberrations in games does not belong in this thread.
Luipadre
Gold Member
I still think subtle use of CA or film grain in certain games can make it look more realistic/better. I used the order 1886 as an example, but there are many more. In some games when i turn these shit of it looks raw. That halo screenshot also looks weird.
squallbr
Member
Pre alpha, so Its not REAL
Can we agree this is the best fire in a game?
Bojji
Member
Every game should have sliders for all those effects. I don't mind subtle CA...
Critical Hit
Member
Film grain doesn't look realistic, it looks more cinematographic, arguably. CA, on the other hand, is image distortion that have no value.
Gonzito
Gold Member
No mention on the awful textures on the hand and gun model? Im disappointed
Too bad I find the game repetetive and boring. Combat (both naval and swordfighting) is way to simplistic to play for very long.From twitter.
Just remarkable.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Take off the CA and Film Grain from Matrix Awakens and you'd see how fucking plain it looks.
Matrix objectively looks better with them both on.
Take out the film grain from this shot and it would look way too clean. Yall need to learn about film aesthetic.
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March Climber
Gold Member
Exactly and it feels like PC gamers will never agree to there being a correct way to use both. Most of them will instead always rip out all effects in a game when given the chance.
The more they do it, the more devs see those stats, the more they don't bother using any of these filmic effects, and the more games look same-y and muted like a bunch of churned out Netflix movies.
Bulletbrain
Member
Film aesthetic is NOT equal to game aesthetic. In films, each shot, each frame is carefully curated to look a certain way. You can apply as many or as little FX to it to make it looks exactly how the director/dp wants it to look.
Take off the CA and Film Grain from Matrix Awakens and you'd see how fucking plain it looks.
Matrix objectively looks better with them both on.
Take out the film grain from this shot and it would look way too clean. Yall need to learn about film aesthetic.
A game is not that. The player controls the camera. CA, film grain etc will look like shit most of the time in gameplay cause it's just applied with the bare minimum of nuance and little regard to frame by frame motion.
At most, keep that shit to non-interactive cinematics. Let all games have the option to turn it off in gameplay
March Climber
Gold Member
...Did you skip the XBO/PS4 generation?
Bulletbrain
Member
You mean the generation that sometimes overdid those effects to hide underlying graphical issues? No need for that now. The hardware and engines are much more capable to not have to resort to crutches.
Critical Hit
Member
Not a game.
You should learn to read first. The message you quoted doesn't mention film grain at all.
CA, heavy color grading, motion blur, and other such post-processing effects were mostly workarounds for limited console hardware and became widespread during the PS3/Xbox 360 era. They became far less common in subsequent generations. PC don't have such hardware limitations, so there's no need to cover a good-looking image with post-processing effects.
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
I'm playing a FUCKIN GAME, not watching a movie. Also Matrix is one of the worst example, or maybe you want games to look green too?
Take off the CA and Film Grain from Matrix Awakens and you'd see how fucking plain it looks.
Matrix objectively looks better with them both on.
Take out the film grain from this shot and it would look way too clean. Yall need to learn about film aesthetic.
What's working in movies don't necessary work in games. You like it? Fine, but stop saying anyone who disagree don't know shit.
RodriGames40
Member
Honestly, why are we even using these effects anymore like stuff you can toggle off? How has no one made them already part of the pipelines that are now raytraced, anyway?
March Climber
Gold Member
That was also a generation where there were good examples of good usage, mostly because they had to lean on it and be creative like you and
Critical Hit
said. It's why I asked if you skipped the generation because your previous post is worded in a way that implies there are no good examples.
Bulletbrain
Member
Thread topic is about "graphical fidelity I expect THIS gen". Current gen games absolutely should not resort to abusing those filmic effects.That was also a generation where there were good examples of good usage, mostly because they had to lean on it and be creative like you and
We can discuss separately how certain games in the past used certain effects to hide underlying issues.
Buggy Loop
Member
Can we agree this is the best fire in a game?
Might as well be a video if we can't see the other sides of it in 3D because there's a corridor. Looks good from that perspective but I think we're sadly far from a good particle system physically based simulation that would be needed for say, a flamethrower.
UE5's Niagara is not at that point at all in 3D unless I missed a major development.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Of course its a game. Its (very) just short. You play the demo. It's a game.
CA, Film grain, motion blur are always slumped into one thing by gamers. You hate one , you hate them all.
The effects are not used to "cover" anything up, this is what you guys are missing. They are added on, intentionally, to enhance or improve the aesthetic.... Guys... Theres is more to graphics and overall presentation than just image quality and sharpness..... A game can look too clean... And super clean IQ sometimes does not fit a games vibe.... So they add in these effects.... In genre specific games, like HORROR, or SCI FI, a game can look to clean.
Film Grain, CA, Motion blur help to add to that gritty look devs go want in their game. This is ILL. Film grain, motion blur and CA cranked all the way up, all working together to create a certain look. Its not a "clean" looking game.
It has nothing to do with trying to cover up hardware short comings. At least not in 2026. Now, It's a stylistic choice - Turned on by default.. almost as i devs want it there... hhmm
March Climber
Gold Member
Not every usage was an intent to 'hide' but instead some were being used artistically, which is why those effects are still used today.
Will some people mess it up? Yes. Will some people get it right? Yes.
I can acknowledge both good and bad usage of these effects, but for some unknown reason others here refuse to.
Bojji
Member
Just leave options to turn it on/off, or even better - add sliders to every effect.
Don't force me to watch this shit cranked up to eleven like in Mirage:
Critical Hit
Member
lmao
Nice assumption, but I don't mind film grain at all.
That's the only exception, yes. But I don't think you understand why it's there. It's meant to create a sense of discomfort. I don't need that in "normal" games.
We'll talk about ILL when the game comes out.
March Climber
Gold Member
I never disagreed with the toggle option existing.Just leave options to turn it on/off, or even better - add sliders to every effect.
Don't force me to watch this shit cranked up to eleven like in Mirage:
I disagree with the notion that these things should be entirely removed from video games because a subset of people had some bad experiences with them in the past (or just don't like them).
An option is the best solution, and honestly if it were up to me I would make the cases of bad CA to be a slider option instead of a toggle.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Yes, it helps some games.
Exactly.
Are you guys trolling? seriously. You guys can't understand that these are EFFECTS implemented for artistic intent. I can't believe people are this dense on Neogaf, I would expect this from ResetEra, no disrespect.
This is a very ignorant take.
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viveks86
Member
Many reasons. One, it's divisive. As much as artists want to preserve their desired look, they also want to cater to an audience that may be put off by it. For some people, stuff like CA and motion blur can actually induce nausea or headaches from prolonged exposure. So a toggle option helps address all that.
Two, it is often used as a crutch to mask other issues, like lack of texture detail or distant LoD. 007, for example, looks pretty raw while driving when you disable the radial blur. You actually start noticing LoD pop in. The other reason is to make it seem you are moving real fast when you actually aren't. IOI gave the toggle option, but another dev may not want their game to look like the cars are going too slow or the pop-in is bad. It's ultimately a developer decision on what to prioritize for each feature, the player preference or their product's presentation. And like most things, it's not black and white, so devs may fall anywhere on that spectrum for each effect.
Three, these are still post processing effects because actual lens simulation is extremely complicated and performance intensive. Real Depth of Field, CA simulation requires path tracing primary rays, something unlikely to happen till end of next generation, if not further out. Simulating motion blur during path tracing is an active research topic and several papers in the last couple of years that tackle it. So just having RT available does not mean actual lens simulation is within reach. But once primary rays are inevitably path traced for other benefits, adding lens simulation becomes a trivial task. And devs that want that will certainly include it.
Toggles should still be possible though. And that would be what I'd prefer too, so people can choose what suits them. I don't believe there is only one right answer on this topic. If a game calls back to the past, lens defects add a layer of immersion that you won't get otherwise. Even at 60 fps, some games look better with motion blur. Film grain always works well in horror. There are genre specific effects that always seem appropriate.
Should Halo have CA? I don't know. It's set in a sci fi future, so anachronistic lens defects don't make much sense, unless they are trying to invoke nostalgia. Given it is a remake of a classic, that may be their justification? I don't think it's a particularly strong one as they aren't going for a retro futuristic aesthetic, and 2001 isn't that long ago either. So the only explanation is a "filmic" look. Shallow as that may sound, it's the dev's prerogative to choose what presentation they want for their game.
Personally, I think CA, DoF, film grain and Motion Blur should all remain toggles/sliders in any game that has them. The devs can choose defaults, but gamers should be allowed to adjust it. Unlike a 2 hour film, this is significant time and interaction spent with the content and you really don't want to make it unpleasant for people who don't like it/can't physically handle it.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Did you not read what I said?It's not artistic intent but idiotic intent, game looks like crap with it (one of the worst IQ in recent games).
Not every artist is on the same level, you have to remember that.
Enabling strong CA, FG and other shit effects is just a lazy ass job and everyone else is doing it.
"Maybe some implementations are bad".
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