Chuck Norris
Banned
Wouldn't a lower amount of RAM affect more than just loading? Like texture, model variety, quality etc.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis
- Thread starter iamshadowlark
- Start date
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Shit third party games will probably be 720p. Sony/Microsoft exclusives(which will be the best looking games on consoles) will be 1080p.
Aiming for 720p gives you a blurry, laggy scaled mess on all 1080p screens and 3/4 of "720p" ones.
4GB is more RAM then most video cards have, nearly all of them.
Spider_Jerusalem
Member
This. And that's why I think many developers will prefer going for 720p with more pumped graphics rather than going for 1080p and less impressive gfx. And as a console-only gamer I wouldn't be bothered at all: if this was an issue for me, I would've switched to PC a couple years ago.
What? I dont recall him dissing the PS3 for its media capabilities. There is nothing fanboyish about this article.
Spider_Jerusalem
Member
This could easily be resolved scaling up the image in the console and outputting it at 1080p, I presume
Chuck Norris
Banned
But where will we be in six years? Honestly I can't see developers NOT tapping every bit of performance they can out of that 8GB.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
AFAIK, with 4GB at speeds of 178 (or 192, I can't remember which) GB/s, it has three to four times faster bandwidth than 8GB at 48 GB/s. So while the latter can load in twice as much STUFF at once, the PS4 would be able to load more in the same time period as it is three-four times faster bandwidth wise.
/Is not a computer expert.
Pachterballs
Banned
nothing new really.
PS4>X3.
still, more excited for both than wiiU. lol
PS4>X3.
still, more excited for both than wiiU. lol
SneakyStephan
Banned
This is bullshit, it applies to movies but not to games.
Lower res = more jaggies, more shimmer, more pixel crawling, more moiree, all very very noticable artifacts at any distance.
(also lcd screens suck at displaying non-native resolution so there is an extra benifit to going for 1080p)
Ah yes and as someone else pointed out: scaling = added input lag, fuck image quality, the input lag alone is a dealbreaker
I think if that was a possible advantage it would have been mentioned in all the analysis which we have seen so far.
dragonelite
Member
You're seeing fanboyism that isn't there man.
It's not what I'm saying, simply Leadbetter hardly biases microsoft for something when Durango it's full of controversial hardware choice.
Less laggy, still blurry, still scaled, still hopelessly unfixable for everyone who bought a cheap 1366x768 panel.
Could be, but I repeat, I'm not sure if the specs were reversed what would be happened talking of Orbis.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Well the DF article makes an interesting point, that not all data needs fast bandwidth in game development. A mix of high bandwidth through the esRAM, low bandwidth and high quantities seems like it could make for optimal results for the developer using memory management systems to take advantage
Then we can go back to Crysis and the like saying 8GB is the minimum they need.
BruiserBear
Banned
Well, hopefully this puts the debate about which console is more powerful to bed. Seems pretty clear from this analysis.
It's a shame Microsoft didn't go for a similar design to Sony, as it seems that is the preferable choice. Either way, I'm sure multiplatform projects will still look very similar on the two consoles, with the PS4 having an extra bell and whistle here and there.
I'll be surprised if Sony exclusives aren't natively rendered at 1080p. Nearly all of their PS3 exclusives were rendered at a true 720p.
It's a shame Microsoft didn't go for a similar design to Sony, as it seems that is the preferable choice. Either way, I'm sure multiplatform projects will still look very similar on the two consoles, with the PS4 having an extra bell and whistle here and there.
I'll be surprised if Sony exclusives aren't natively rendered at 1080p. Nearly all of their PS3 exclusives were rendered at a true 720p.
Zumblakladla
Banned
Ok, after reading i think there is not anything we didn't know untill now. Everything is known by now, and as I said before, PS4 more "games" oriented, X720 more multimedia oriented.
To be honest, even I like x360 more than ps3, I'm more excited about PS4 than new xbox.
To be honest, even I like x360 more than ps3, I'm more excited about PS4 than new xbox.
Sony has said they work to reach the 8 GB capability of Durango, but honestly I don't think 4 GB of GDDR5 is that different.
It's GB/s, but yeah, i'm pretty sure the crazy RAM bandwidth can compensate the smaller memory pool and then some. And if the rumors are true that only about 5GB are reserved to games on Durango, PS4 will outdo Durango RAM-wise.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I would have said the same 5 years ago however, I am beginning to play game less and consuming other form of entertainment more, so I am quite excited that the next Xbox could fulfill my needs. I am still excited for the PS4 and I plan to get both consoles at launch.
Not at all if it's faster.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Sony didn't say that. A rumour said that. Edge or Kotaku wasn't it?
Zumblakladla
Banned
Since I'm in the part of Europe where I can not use Netflix, SkyTV or some other multimedia apps and things (unfortunately) I'm pretty limited to games only on consoles. It's just too shame that PS4 won't (probably) come out this year in Europe, I would gladly buy that first, but like this, I will go with new xbox, hopefully BC will be available too in it so I can use it for cleaning my neverending backlog that originates from Classic Xbox.
Both systems will look quite similar for it's 80% 3rd Party library. I expect 1st party to really show off what the respective hardware is capable of.
As it stands, Sony will have some mind-blowing stuff but remember the some aspects of the specs could either be false or change at any given moment.
As it stands, Sony will have some mind-blowing stuff but remember the some aspects of the specs could either be false or change at any given moment.
BruiserBear
Banned
The RAM differences of these consoles are going to have a negligible difference when it comes to games. The speed of the RAM is more likely to have an impact on games than an extra gig being available.
One of the drawbacks of not having a federal Europe lol.
Yep, Sony made a wise decision going with 4GB of GDDR5 rather than the rumoured 2GB from a year or two ago.
paradise_circus
Member
I finally found my award-winning special sauce.
I bet the next gen consoles will be able to run games at 1080p. If the 360 and PS3 were twice as powerful then I believe that they could run games at that resolution, so...
About the data regarding the flops being meaningless, could that mean that the same applies to the WiiU, and that console could be considerably more powerful than it looks on paper?
Again with the secret sauce -___- .
Evertime Orbis seems to be ahead of Durango, someone (Aegis, Proelite, etc) comes out with some unspecific blah blah.
Orbis has better GPU? No problem, Durango has GPU secret sauce.
Orbis has better RAM? Nor problem, Durango has RAM secret sauce.
Orbis has 4 CUs for computing? No problem, Durango has CPU secret sauce.
You could say the same for Sony always seemingly waiting to hear what Microsoft says first before telling us how powerful the PS4 will be. They did the same thing with the PS3, always waiting so they could better whatever Microsoft said.
Fixed that for you.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Is that right? Please tell us more
BruiserBear
Banned
Of course they'll be able to. The 360 and PS3 even have games that run at true 1080p.
The question comes in when developers are building a game that really pushes the graphics. The lower the resolution, the more impressive you can make the effects, so it's a give and take. Higher resolution or more effects? Based on the specs for Durango, it seems many developers may feel the need to target 720p. It would seem doing 1080p will be easier on Orbis.
No. He said flops aren't everything, but comparing them on Durango and Orbis does still give an indication the Orbis is more powerful. We pretty much know how powerful the Wii U is at this point. It's similar to the Xbox 360.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Alright, 2.5-2.8x faster bandwidth, which should make up for (and then some) for half the amount of available memory.
If we compare the amount of ram available after the OS ram usage has been taken into account (this is all speculation) and set hte Durango OS usage at 2GB (lower than the hypothesized 3GB), and the PS4 OS usage at 1GB (which is probably the case) then you end up with the same results - the PS4's faster RAM Enabling it to load in slightly more than the Durango's ram in the same time frame.
They end up on-par if you take the eSRAM of the Durango into account, or ends up more favourable to the Orbis if you go ahead with the Durango using 3GB for the OS and the PS4 only using 500MB.
/Not a computer expert.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Most PC games are just unaware of most than 2GB of RAM, thanks to be 32bits executables or don't have the flag of Large Address Aware.
A open world, mammoth GFX, game like crysis runs under 2GB of RAM and around 900MB of VRAM at 1080P.
It fits nicely on the 4GB RAM pool of Orbis, discountig OS, as a straight port. But it's a 2007 game. Although, BF3 eats 1'5GB of VRAM alone.
Honestly, I can't see how devs would have to struggle at all with 3'5GBs of free RAM coming from less than 400MB splitted RAM of the PS3.
Anyway, most people don't understand that you need to pair the RAM bandwidth with the proccessing power. GDDR5 is useless in a mid-low range tier GPU. And Orbis/Durango are just mid range GPU's, don't forget that.
By the EOL of this machines, DDR3 could be more expensive than GDDR5. Maybe Sony is aiming at that, coming from the nightmare of XDR. Because bandwidth for that modest GPU is just overkill.
Then stop speculating like you are one.
Punkster_NY
Member
1080p/60fps confirmed?!
Oh, play some CoD on a 1080p TV on PS3, then after startup WipeoutHD
They wont fucking know what resolution is but they will probably say "oooh that looks cleaner"
Same with people who say they dont see a diff between dvd and blu-ray. They dont actually know how bad the former is
90TilInfinity
Member
Do ROPs have any impact on FPS? Or is it purely an issue of resolution?
H_Prestige
Banned
PS4 OS is rumored to be 512mb. So games would have 3.5GB GDDR5.
MS is rumored to reserve 2-3GB out of 8GB. So the RAM difference isn't really that big.
revolverjgw
Member
I still don't think they'd even care, and just chalk it up to Wipeout's cleaner, glossier "look" rather than its tech. Similarly, I remember booting up the R&CA4One demo in front of someone who had played every previous Ratchet, and the first thing I said when I saw it was "wow, 30fps Ratchet feels fucked up", and they were like "what? How can you even notice something like that?" To me it was glaringly obvious to the point of distraction, and this Ratchet vet wasn't just apathetic, he was clueless.
I know this is all anecdotal, and people could counter by citing COD's success running at 60 (I believe it would do fine at 30), but I really don't think people at enthusiast forums like this realize how little the mass market gives a shit about this stuff.