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[Reiko]

Well it's a good thing you're protecting their identity. Wouldn't want to go on the record for such outlandish claims.

Whether the power gap between PS4 & Durango is small or huge... The console will have to be "very powerful" compared to last gen consoles to run the new next generation engines with desired results.

In a way, there is nothing wrong with that comment.

 

[kpjolee]

I remember reading how Blackbelt and Katana would be bringing a perfect port of Virtua Fighter 3 to console.

I think Blackbelt was a add on to Sega Saturn.

Black Belt - 3Dfx version of Dreamcast
Katana - PowerVR version of Dreamcast

Apparently developed at the same time and Sega went with Katana for Dreamcast.

 

[Reiko]

Black Belt - 3Dfx version of Dreamcast
Katana - PowerVR version of Dreamcast

Apparently developed at the same time and Sega went with Katana for Dreamcast.

They made a good choice.

Too bad VF3 still ended up with a subpar port on more powerful hardware.

 

[golem]

Thats yukon, yukon was rejected.

Do we know that for sure though? Many of the elements in that slide seem to have made it to the current believed specs for Durango.

 

[shinra-bansho]

"This person said this, I can't say who, to actually verify their reliability. Just trust me."

is about as bad as:

"I know something, but shouldn't say."

I thought Thuway should have been some sort of lesson against such.

 

[famousmortimer]

"Durango will be really powerful" is a quote my mother could come up with. Of course it will. It doesn't even matter if your source is legit or not, it's a no brainer. It's like me saying "I got a dude in sony and he told me that the ps4 will, in fact, come in a box. It won't be invisible."

 

[Unknown One]

Developers said the Wii-U is powerful as well.

 

[TEH-CJ]

So whats more powerful gaf?

next xbox or ps4?

I am confused.

 

[Reiko]

Developers said the Wii-U is powerful as well.

To run The Wonderful 101, it has to be.

So whats more powerful gaf?

next xbox or ps4?

I am confused.

We'll find out in a year or 2.

 

[shinobi602]

So whats more powerful gaf?

next xbox or ps4?

I am confused.

I'm willing to bet there will be things the next Xbox does better and certain things the PS4 does better. Should be a repeat of this gen.

 

[chubigans]

Whether the power gap between PS4 & Durango is small or huge... The console will have to be "very powerful" compared to last gen consoles to run the new next generation engines with desired results.

In a way, there is nothing wrong with that comment.

I was kind of being sarcastic, hah.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Thats yukon, yukon was rejected.

Yukon wasn't rejected until last year, which means some things could of rolled into the competing project.

 

[TEH-CJ]

I'm willing to bet there will be things the next Xbox does better and certain things the PS4 does better. Should be a repeat of this gen.

Yea should be pretty close.

 

[KidBeta]

Do we know that for sure though? Many of the elements in that slide seem to have made it to the current believed specs for Durango.

GPU is different, majorly
RAM is different. majorly

 

[golem]

GPU is different, majorly
RAM is different. majorly

GPU may be different because they had not decided on a vendor yet.

RAM is different because DDR4 has been delayed.

Even the CPU had not been nailed down at the time of that diagram, as they point to the possibility of ARM or X86. The diagram was a general overview, not concrete details.

 

[KidBeta]

GPU may be different because they had not decided on a vendor yet.

RAM is different because DDR4 has been delayed.

Even the CPU had not been nailed down at the time of that diagram, as they point to the possibility of ARM or X86. The diagram was a general overview, not concrete details.

AMD is the vendor they have decided on.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Jaguar Vanilla
* 1.8GHz LC Clocks (can be under-clocked for specific low-powered battery device needs - tablets, etc...).
* 2MB shared L2 cache per CUs
* 1-4 CUs can be outfitted per chip. (i.e. 4-16 logical cores)
* 5-25 watts depending on the device/product. (45 watts is achievable under proper conditions)

PS4 Jaguar with chocolate syrup.
* 2GHz is correct as of now.
* 4MB of total L2 cache (2MB L2 x 2 CUs)
* 2 CUs (8 Logical cores).
* idles around 7 watts during non-gaming operations and around 12 watts during Blu-ray movie operations. Gaming is a mixed bag...

A 25% increase in the PS4 CPU? This is the same increase that was reported on "PS4 Daily" yesterday isn't it.

The site is spurious however.

 

[phosphor112]

Some interesting posts from this guy.

On UE4 demo on PS4; http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1712718#post1712718


And here he's hinting at BC for the Xbox but it conflicts with what he's saying now; http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1713042#post1713042

Either way, it's too early to start believing this guy.

Why would they go IBM if they invested so much money into AMD?

 

[onQ123]

What I take from all of the new info vs the posts from insiders who seen the documents, is that Microsoft did a damn good job at selling the Xbox 3 to investors.

 

[JaggedSac]

What I take from all of the new info vs the posts from insiders who seen the documents, is that Microsoft did a damn good job at selling the Xbox 3 to investors.

They wouldn't show the XBox 3 to investors. If they did, the investors couldn't act on it since it is not public knowledge. Perhaps you mean MS internal stakeholders?

 

[onQ123]

They wouldn't show the XBox 3 to investors. If they did, the investors couldn't act on it since it is not public knowledge. Perhaps you mean MS internal stakeholders?

well not investors I mean the people that the docs was shown to.

 

[Proelite]

This MikeR guy is a tool, at least when it comes to Xbox info.

 

[ekim]

This MikeR guy is a tool, at least when it comes to Xbox info.

But he has the same first name and also shares the same first letter of his last same like me. I used the nick MikeR quite often - so it's weird to see it... lol

 

[onQ123]

This MikeR guy is a tool, at least when it comes to Xbox info.

Did he give out some Xbox info?


I thought he said that the part about a fully loaded Jaguar was just wishful thinking but there was a few designs on the table.

 

[artist]

This MikeR guy is a tool, at least when it comes to Xbox info.

Spill them. Look what happened to thuway ..

 

[antic604]

This MikeR guy is a tool, at least when it comes to Xbox info.

'tool' as in 'instrument' (of Microsoft to mislead teh internets), or as 'jerk'?

 

[digoutyoursoul]

This MikeR guy is a tool, at least when it comes to Xbox info.

Prove it

 

[onQ123]

Prove it

What is there to prove? MikeR didn't give out any real Xbox 3 info he only said that it would be nice if it had the fully loaded Jaguar which is 16 cores. & he also said that if they went with a IBM design it would be for BC.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

What is there to prove? MikeR didn't give out any real Xbox 3 info he only said that it would be nice if it had the fully loaded Jaguar which is 16 cores. & he also said that if they went with a IBM design it would be for BC.

Sorry, I'm just getting a bit annoyed at any genuine leaks/concrete info. Blackout till April for me I guess

 

[gaming_noob]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1713042#post1713042

Bgassassin's info is for real then?

fixed le link...

 

[Arrogant Menace]

Bgassassin's info is for real then?

fix the link please

 

[Proelite]

Prove it

Hinting at 16 cores / PowerPC = automatic tool.

 

[Y2Kev]

and sony should stick with a SUPA CELL!!!

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Hinting at 16 cores / PowerPC = automatic tool.

Gotcha, thanks

(I have pitiful technical knowledge sorry)

 

[Biggzy]

and sony should stick with a SUPA CELL!!!

Yes, the mythical super cell.

 

[Y2Kev]

I wouldn't trust any rumors we've heard about PS4, including the conf announcement. Sony Can obviously usE some aLternative processors in their machine...incLuding some with some special benefits.

now im an insider

 

[Biggzy]

I wouldn't trust any rumors we've heard about PS4, including the conf announcement. Sony Can obviously usE some aLternative processors in their machine...incLuding some with some special benefits.

now im an insider

Hmmmm... Something seems off with your post.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Bgassassin's info is for real then?

fixed le link...

According to what there saying here, no.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62867&page=62

edit: Where is Bgassassin? Has he commented on the new VGLeaks Durango CPU article?

 

[googleplex]

Yea should be pretty close.

I keep seeing this ideal of graphical parity. But with what we "know" about the specs of both machines, I just don't see how its close. Unless MS has some sort of surprise planned, it wont be "close" at all.

 

[EightBitNate]

I keep seeing this ideal of graphical parity. But with what we "know" about the specs of both machines, I just don't see how its close. Unless MS has some sort of surprise planned, it wont be "close" at all.

Special sauce will come through.

 

[onQ123]

Bgassassin's info is for real then?

fixed le link...

what make you say that?

Hinting at 16 cores / PowerPC = automatic tool.

in that post he was saying that it wasn't much that they could do to the Jaguar cores because it would defeat the purpose of using the the Jaguar CPU & that if it was any "secret sauce" it wouldn't be from the the Jaguar design & he was saying that if the Xbox 3 had BC it wouldn't be from the Jaguar CPU the hint isn't that the CPU will be a IBM CPU the hint is that it might be hardware BC from a IBM chip.


& the 16 Core thing was wishful thinking he never said that it was going to be the design that they are going with but it's the one that he would have liked.

"Random blurp...

I wouldn't count on any major hardware alterations "if" the Xbox next system is Jaguar centric. There's only so much custom-customization one can do within a 25 watt vanilla-envelope, without exceeding TDP and cost. Adding random chips on improving certain compute functions isn't an option either... defeats the purpose of competitive pricing and quicker turnaround times on smaller future designs.

If there was a "secret sauce" (hate that phrase), I wouldn't bet it around the current leaked specs/designs. I Bet MS has B/C in the cards though - don't you think? "IF" B/C is available at the hardware level, then I can see their hardware not being Jaguar centric. AMD GPU yes, the rest not so much. My two cents..."

 

[gaming_noob]

what make you say that?



in that post he was saying that it wasn't much that they could do to the Jaguar cores because it would defeat the purpose of using the the Jaguar CPU & that if it was any "secret sauce" it wouldn't be from the the Jaguar design & he was saying that if the Xbox 3 had BC it wouldn't be from the Jaguar CPU the hint isn't that the CPU will be a IBM CPU the hint is that it might be hardware BC from a IBM chip.


& the 16 Core thing was wishful thinking he never said that it was going to be the design that they are going with but it's the one that he would have liked.

Maybe I'm reading into it too much but the way he bolded the letters IBM, I thought maybe he was hinting about a different CPU than what we're expecting...and bgassassin was hinting about "double" performance the other day.

 

[onQ123]

Maybe I'm reading into it too much but the way he bolded the letters IBM, I thought maybe he was hinting about a different CPU than what we're expecting...and bgassassin was hinting about "double" performance the other day.

I asked him if that's what he meant & he replied



" Originally Posted by MikeR
Who knows... only MS can answer that. I was just wishful thinking out loud on the Jaguar capabilities of supporting 4 CUs on chip. It's somewhat (is) too late for Sony to make any dramatic changes to its current flavor. I'm more inclined to believe (97.9% sure) MS next system has a greater LC count - be it a AMD or IBM solution. The Kinect 2 is somewhat CPU intensive ...it's not hard to fathom the Win8 derivative reserving 1 core and Kinect reserving 1-2 cores alone."


& as for Bgassassin I think he just read too deep into the same info that was posted on VGleaks.



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Performance

Durango CPU cores run at 1.6 GHz; this is half the clock rate of the Xbox 360’s cores. Because of this, it is tempting to assume that the Xbox 360’s cores might outperform Durango’s cores. However, this is emphatically not true, for the reasons described in the following sections.

Sub-ISA Parallelism and Micro-Operations

Like most recent high-performance x64 processors, the cores do not execute the x64 instruction set natively; instead, internally instructions are decoded into micro-operations, which the processor executes. This translation provides opportunities to parallelize beyond traditional superscalar execution.

Durango CPU cores have dual x64 instruction decoders, so they can decode two instructions per cycle. On average, an x86 instruction is converted to 1.7 micro-operations, and many common x64 instructions are converted to 1 micro-operation. In the right conditions, the processor can simultaneously issue six micro-operations: a load, a store, two ALU, and two vector floating point. The core has corresponding pipelines: two identical 64-bit ALU pipelines, two 128-bit vector float pipelines (one with float multiply, one with float add), one load pipeline, and one store pipeline. A core can retire 2 micro-operations a cycle.


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