onQ123
Member
easy 1.8 is more acceptable than 1.2 even if you don't like either amount 1.8 is still the more acceptable amount. how is it not?
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VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
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easy 1.8 is more acceptable than 1.2 even if you don't like either amount 1.8 is still the more acceptable amount. how is it not?
nelsonroyale
Member
A downclocked 7970 was never an option...at all...
amstradcpc
Member
Acceptable is whatever they put into the machines that gives near 200w tdp. A 7970 plus cpu is much more than that. A 8 core Jaguar cpu with a 7870 and 8GB GDDR5 could be near that. And that is for me the hot spot these consoles should have reached. If one console is 100w you always will be wondering how it would have been with 100w more of components.
So, IMHO both consoles are underpowered. They have to fight a market of low power tablets and smartphones that update each year and however they converge with them in the tdp line instead of diferenciate themselves.
So, IMHO both consoles are underpowered. They have to fight a market of low power tablets and smartphones that update each year and however they converge with them in the tdp line instead of diferenciate themselves.
By that tie most smart TVs and bluray players and other boxes play Netflix etc, so those aren't needed either. MS can just launch an 'all in one' media solution and tell you to use your iPad.
shinra-bansho
Member
The intent was pretty clear, even if the wording wasn't precise. :/
Liabe Brave
Member
While I don't put much stock in the source, having two HDDs that cost the same actually makes perfect sense. "Premium SKU" consoles are not designed to offer exactly as much extra value as the price difference. Quite the opposite: they're designed to offer enough extra stuff that consumers will accept the higher price, but the extra stuff doesn't actually cost the manufacturer that much. It's a method to mitigate the hit on loss-leader hardware at launch, and increase the profit margin later on.
EDGE confirmed VGLeaks Durango specs a month ago:
http://www.edge-online.com/news/the...hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/
http://www.edge-online.com/news/the...hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/
I'd say Edge confirmed the rumours.
Until the reveal I guess there is a little wriggle room with regards to specs. But that doesn't mean folk should go crazy!
onQ123
Member
What is your case?
Reiko said: "The PS4 GPU is the more acceptable ball park for next gen power."
Razgreez said: "To whom? I still find it disappointing"
implying that he didn't find it to be more acceptable & I asked him did he find the GPU with 1.2 TFLOPS more acceptable than the GPU with 1.8TFLOPS because Reiko was saying that it was more acceptable & he objected.
The two machines aren't going to be identical. Even if there is a tiny difference that won't be noticable in games, that difference will be exaggerated by some, and downplayed by others. The sane majority will just sit and sigh at the nonsense of it all.
Right now we're just in silly season. At this point prior to the PS4 announcement it was calmer though, with people settling on on the rumours. What's different about Xbox that people are scrabbling for crazy rumours? Just that Ps4 is finally real and they want to validate their preference before its even announced.
Right now we're just in silly season. At this point prior to the PS4 announcement it was calmer though, with people settling on on the rumours. What's different about Xbox that people are scrabbling for crazy rumours? Just that Ps4 is finally real and they want to validate their preference before its even announced.
You're reading far too deeply into what i typed and deriving meaning where there was none. All i stated was 1.8TF is not, in my opinion, acceptable. One could obviously infer from that that since 1.2TF is less than 1.8TF it is not acceptable neither.
My entire point is that these companies could be leveraging far more potent, already existing, technology but they aren't since it likely falls outside the cost-benefits analysis they've done. That is why it's disappointing
Cool, and that's the way it's got to go of course with sources.
I've just noticed a rising level of craziness (still not unbearable), so was trying to find a middle ground!
On a separate note I'm quite content with not having an idea of specs until much later. I don't need the nextbox firm in my head if that makes sense. It hasn't been revealed yet so trying to set a "it will be X but it won't have Y" is unnecessary to me at least. Especially as release is even further away.
I accept I'll be in a tiny minority here and, some might say, in the wrong place!
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
If these rumours for Durango are locked on as final specs (1.2tflops GPU, 8 GB DDR3), I don't think it'll be hard for Microsoft to show something at their unveiling as impressive looking as Killzone:SF or Deep Down.
That is the problem Sony has - they look likely to have the power advantage but they need something to really highlight that, as a key selling point over their rival's system.
Let me make a prediction - MSFT will have a game at the Xbox3 unveiling that will look in the same ballpark as KZ:SF or Deep Down. People on Gaf will say the power difference (if there is indeed a significant one) is negligible.
Said game could be Crytek's new ip or a new racer.
That is the problem Sony has - they look likely to have the power advantage but they need something to really highlight that, as a key selling point over their rival's system.
Let me make a prediction - MSFT will have a game at the Xbox3 unveiling that will look in the same ballpark as KZ:SF or Deep Down. People on Gaf will say the power difference (if there is indeed a significant one) is negligible.
Said game could be Crytek's new ip or a new racer.
onQ123
Member
but you was replying to someone who said it was "more acceptable" not "acceptable"
you even bolded the part when he said "more acceptable" you was disagreeing with it being more acceptable so that's why I asked if you found the Xbox GPU to be more acceptable.
Too many posts wasted on this lets move on.
Miles Quaritch
Member
They'd have to engage in a smoke and mirrors campaign as they did during E3 2005. No-one, not even Naughty Dog will have been able to tap significantly into the extra power to make their games look significantly ahead this early in the generation.
What you're asking takes time, developers need to become used to the hardware, figure out how best to tap the console, etc and that comes two/three years after release during the second/third wave of titles as we saw with Uncharted 2, God of War 3, Heavy Rain, etc.
amstradcpc
Member
Entering phase 2:
Phase 1) (that's where we are currently at)
People are arguing about specs and about which machine is more powerful. This is all enriched by a little bit of preemptive damage control here and there just in case the console of choice should indeed turn out to be less powerfull on paper.
Phase 2)
If it turns out that one console is indeed less powerfull then the other on paper, then the discussion will move on to arguing about the implications. Will it make a visible difference? Will the majority even notice/care?
Phase 3)
The final result will be one side declaring that graphics/power basically do not matter at all. Gameplay and "artisitic direction" is all that matters (and conventiently forgetting that power and gameplay are in a symbiotic relationship with each other...) for first party games.
How it will be spun for third party games I'm not sure... PS3 users were pretty upfront and upset about the Skyrim disaster iirc? Any other examples?
shinra-bansho
Member
My "case" is the ability to infer meaning even when someone's wording isn't precise through the magic of common sense.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Yep, I know that, you know that. And anyone on here that isn't wilfully ignorant will too. It's just showcasing that power advantage in a tangible way for the average gamer.
Ha yeah was thinking of your post when I was typing that. Phase 2 is incoming in a big way I reckon.
What we should also consider is the availability of devkits. So far 1st and 3rd party studios have been working with devkits that were less powerful than the final product (if rumors are anything to go by).
This is probably the reason why some people (those that failed to adjust their expectations) will find the first wave of games somewhat underwhelming compared to what will follow.
For example GG will probably have about 6 months time to work with the final devkit. That IMO is definitely not enough time to utilize PS4 hardware properly.
Considering Deep Down is almost certainly multi-plat and wasn't running on PS4 hardware, Microsoft could easily show DD 'running' on Xbox3. They won't of course, but there's no reason to think DD on X3 would be appreciably worse, visually speaking, (rumoured specs not withstanding).
Almost certainly. Considering the visual differences possible based on design choice, environmental demands, game style, etc, (see KZ:SF's open world vs Deep Down's enclosed spaces for example), it's a brave soul who would try to equitably compare such wildly different games across two platforms. Plenty of brave souls around here though.
Which is why their first-parties have to step up and make the system they designed themselves sing.
Considering Deep Down is almost certainly multi-plat and wasn't running on PS4 hardware, Microsoft could easily show DD 'running' on Xbox3. They won't of course, but there's no reason to think DD on X3 would be appreciably worse, visually speaking, (rumoured specs not withstanding).
Almost certainly. Considering the visual differences possible based on design choice, environmental demands, game style, etc, (see KZ:SF's open world vs Deep Down's enclosed spaces for example), it's a brave soul who would try to equitably compare such wildly different games across two platforms. Plenty of brave souls around here though.
Which is why their first-parties have to step up and make the system they designed themselves sing.
Interpret that how you will, but that what the developers of Deep Down said.
dragonelite
Member
Jep Durango two Cray super computer duct taped together confirmed.
I personally hoped for at least a 2+ TFlops GPU in both.
That was my mark.
1.2 TFlops and other service rumors makes it really hard for me to get the next gen xbox.
Hell not even sure if i will get the ps4. For 1k euro i can upgrade my desktop and get shitload of steam sales. Given the fact both will be x86 porting should be done easier.
dragonelite
Member
Too soon posted..
1.8(it's 1.88?) vs 1.2 is huge difference. We won't see it on MultiPlat games but exclusives will show the difference. and since RAM is unified on PS4 GDRR5 ram will give a boost to PS4 GPU (cerny words) capabilities. Sony went the right track. Who ever expected this much ram , GPU with 3TF and fastest CPU in a 299usd/euro console is a nut job.
Unless Capcom or Sony stand up and say 'Exclusive to PS4', I interpret it as multi-plat. And even then, exclusive for exactly how long did you say..?
Monty Mole
Member
They can't talk about an unannounced console.
nelsonroyale
Member
Ono explicitly said it was running on PS4 though.... I seriously doubt it is exclusive, in fact no chance, but it seemed to be running on PS4, which I don't think is unbelievable at all considering the SE tech was running on ps4 as well.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Reasonable people "entered phase 2" before either specs were even leaked. There's nothing to discuss here for anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of the history of gaming platforms.
No I said the PS4 GPU is what I expect out of next gen console power. I'm repeating that again just for you.
shinra-bansho
Member
My post wasn't directed at you. You weren't quoted in my post. I wasn't talking about you. I'm not sure from where you got that I was.
I'm clarifying this "just for you" even though it was exceedingly obvious.
^ that was my point. It was more a comment towards the fact that it was running on PS4 hardware then anything else.
It's early morning and I'm tired. But thanks for the clarification.
Ps4 dev-kits. With the closeness of PS4 (and rumoured Durango) to standard PC architecture it's a moot point anyway probably. It's likely ballpark of what we can expect.
The point I was trying to make was that it's unlikely Deep Down, or whatever it becomes, will be PS4-only, so it's reasonable to assume the Durango will be able to display similar levels of gorgeousness. In which case people should excite, not get antsy about rumoured specs.
If the rumoured specs for both are true, how is having 33% less shading and 50% less fill going to end up with 'the same visuals'. I and other disagree with this interpretation.
Yeah. You can look at Deep Down as Splinter Cell Chaos Theory on PS4 if MS doesn't change their specs.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was on both PS2 and Xbox. Look how that turned out.
I didn't write 'the same visuals'. I wrote:
Now, you can argue that if there's a noticeable difference between say, DD on PS4 and X3, then it's 'appreciably worse', fair enough, but it's a partly semantic and partly subjective argument.
In my view, not having seen either final hardware, I believe there will be little noticeable visual difference between multi-plat titles, whether by design or innate hardware similarities. I also think the more advanced graphics become the less noticeable such differences will become in general, but that's only my current opinion and if you want to disagree, go ahead.
As was Hot Pursuit 2. Look how that turned out.
You mean the Gamecube version looking almost exactly the same as the PS2 version despite being significantly more powerful?
nelsonroyale
Member
Yeah, I kind of agree with that. I think there will more likely be differences in performance, rather than anything else, maybe IQ as well. But considering games are getting to the stage where they look stunning whichever way you cut it, devs will make the real difference I reckon. The thing is I don't think even visuals we will see in KZ will be the base standard, since when it comes to visuals Guerrilla are very much on the upper tier.
Anyway, again if Durango has a 7770+ and the PS4 has a 7850+, there are likely to be differences, but it won't be that big a deal, just like a PC and a more powerful PC...
Glorified G
Member
Cherry picking. There were plenty of ps2/xbox games that barely had any difference.
You have an interesting definition of 'significantly more powerful'.
The thing that doesn't make sense is the Xbox 360 is already pumping out third party games with sub optimal framerates, so why would they go into a new gen with a low power GPU pumping out more sub optimal framerates compared to PS4?
All the services & gimmicks in the world will not forgive poor performing console versions. That just doesn't gel with me.
And if they just make third party games with Durango in mind, it just sets third party games back graphically with it being the lowest common denominator.
This is the problem that happens when you have one console that is much more powerful than the other.
You must have poor memory. Adding AA and 480p alone set it apart from PS2 which usually ran in sub 480p and only had 480i modes.
All the services & gimmicks in the world will not forgive poor performing console versions. That just doesn't gel with me.
And if they just make third party games with Durango in mind, it just sets third party games back graphically with it being the lowest common denominator.
This is the problem that happens when you have one console that is much more powerful than the other.
You must have poor memory. Adding AA and 480p alone set it apart from PS2 which usually ran in sub 480p and only had 480i modes.
This. We have an apples to apples comparison with these new systems, unlike systems if the past. It's not as complex of a comparison as PS2/GC/Xbox or PS3/360. So bringing up old games like Splinter Cell is silly. If the rumored specs are true, PS4 will have better looking games. End of story. It will have, in general, better looking first party games and it will have slightly to moderately better looking and performing third party games. The difference between 1.2 and 1.84 tflops of the same architecture (not to mention much faster RAM) is quite a large difference and it's funny seeing it get downplayed so much. Anybody who thinks third party devs won't take advantage of that extra power to AT LEAST give the PS4 version of games some better AA, better textures, and/or better framerate are kidding themselves.
If the leaks are correct, then it just shows MS has a much different vision than Sony. Keep in mind that neither company is run by most of the same people as when the PS3 and Xbox came out.
It's not 1.2 versus 1.84