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[Krejlooc]

My stance is that nobody's defending Paterno because they believe he's guilty, and it's not just football that makes them believe that he's not guilty. I think it's useful to explore why that happens. And sometimes in exploring those reasons, you are able to convince people that they're wrong.

I don't think anything could ever possibly be gained from a shitty story about people supporting somebody who did shitty things, and then saying "boy gee aren't those people shitty" and moving on. Nobody learns anything and nothing gets better.

People have learned to avoid a crazy, insignificant minority of zealots and ignore their opinions, and that makes life better for victims.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING. The defenders are in their minds thinking about the good things he did. I'm not saying we should. I'm saying that it helps to understand why people make bad decisions and if we encourage oversimplifying and waiving away real contributing factors means this entire place should just be shut down because what the fuck even is a discussion at that point.

I don't want the statue up, I didn't want Joe Paterno to get to wait and resign when he wanted it, and I didn't think the sanctions should have been lifted pretty much immediately after they were applied. But there are a lot of people out there who do and it wasn't only because he won a title before cable TV existed. "How can these people defend this monster who never did anything good in his life" is a question that can never be answered because it starts from a false premise.

I think you're setting up a strawman here with the "nothing good" stuff. Even casual football fans understood Joe Pa's positive legacy pre-scandal and how he was viewed by the greater college football community. The problem with your argument is what was revealed post-scandal destroys the legacy. The "good" you're talking about is tainted.

Most of us, especially those of us who are fans of college football and know the general culture around passionate fanbases, have at least a little understanding WHY some segment of the alumni/fans/students are so defensive (though perhaps not to the extreme degree these people push it). That doesn't make it any less disgusting and it doesn't make it right.

This entire situation forced me to question my own fandom and how I would act in a similar circumstance if this was my team. I can also say with some certainty I would have disassociated a lot time ago. These diehard Paterno defenders drank the kool-aid and are prepared to join Jim Jones JoePa in Valhalla

Most of the "good things" he did were the direct result of covering up the rape of children for decades.

He wouldn't have had good graduation rates, or the money to donate to a library, or to donate to charities if he had copped to what was happening. He acted after self interest time and time again and put himself, his school, his football team and his personal interests ahead of children over and over again. Every day since 1978 when he first learned what was happening until the day he got caught he was living a horrible lie.

The reason that PSU fans think so highly of him is because of his bullshit "aw shucks" demeanor and "real old school manly toughness with a heart of gold" schtick that he hawked for all of his life. The thing is, all of that was a lie. Because the huckster let children be raped and didn't do a fucking thing about it.

exactly right

 

[Man God]

An old textile mill is the only good employer in town and makes very good sweaters. The factory foreman knows that the sweaters can only be made at this site at an affordable if they keep pumping arsenic into the river, killing the children that play near the river. If news got out about this no one would buy the sweaters but they can fix the problem in twenty years or so when it will be convenient. The foreman is found out covering up this mess, but he employed so many people and so many people loved him. Is he a good man? Of course he isn't, he's complicit in murder for the sole purpose of making more money and looking good, which he ruined when people learned he covered up this atrocity for twenty years.

 

[Krejlooc]

An old textile mill is the only good employer in town and makes very good sweaters. The factory foreman knows that the sweaters can only be made at this site at an affordable if they keep pumping arsenic into the river, killing the children that play near the river. If news got out about this no one would buy the sweaters but they can fix the problem in twenty years or so when it will be convenient. The foreman is found out covering up this mess, but he employed so many people and so many people loved him. Is he a good man? Of course he isn't, he's complicit in murder for the sole purpose of making more money and looking good, which he ruined when people learned he covered up this atrocity for twenty years.

Or, again, a better, even more relvant example - jerry sandusky used his foundation to rape kids. But the vast majority of kids that went through his foundation weren't raped, and actually had their lives bettered.

Yet no one asks us to remember the good Sandusky's kids did, for obvious reasons. Why arent the people asking us to remember joe pa's good going to bat for sandusky?

 

[Man God]

Or, again, a better, even more relvant example - jerry sandusky used his foundation to rape kids. But the vast majority of kids that went through his foundation weren't raped, and actually had their lives bettered.

Yet no one asks us to remember the good Sandusky's kids did, for obvious reasons. Why arent the people asking us to remember joe pa's good going to bat for sandusky?

You're absolutely right, I was just trying to take football completely out of it.

It's pretty much impossible for someone in a position of even relative power not to do some incidental good. This doesn't make up for any wrongs they knowingly commit.

 

[perfectchaos007]

My stance is that nobody's defending Paterno because they believe he's guilty, and it's not just football that makes them believe that he's not guilty. I think it's useful to explore why that happens. And sometimes in exploring those reasons, you are able to convince people that they're wrong.

I don't think anything could ever possibly be gained from a shitty story about people supporting somebody who did shitty things, and then saying "boy gee aren't those people shitty" and moving on. Nobody learns anything and nothing gets better.

But we do know why many Penn State alum are in his corner. He was a cult leader, and the cult was PSU football. A successful cult leader could murder a follower, and the surviving followers would forgive and forget. Hell, Jim Jones convinced his followers to kill themselves, and more than 900 of them happily obliged. That's really the only rational explanation as to why so many people would rally behind a child rape enabler.

 

[Krejlooc]

But we do know why many Penn State alum are in his corner. He was a cult leader, and the cult was PSU football. A successful cult leader could murder a follower, and the surviving followers would forgive and forget. Hell, Jim Jones convinced his followers to kill themselves, and more than 900 of them happily obliged. That's really the only rational explanation as to why so many people would rally behind a child rape enabler.

But are you telling me the Pope is a John Cappelletti-caliber running back???

 

[Ganhyun]

Fuck those people wanting the statue put nack up.

Worst college football fans?

A. Penn State
B. UGA
C. Florida
D. FSU

lets fix this post shall we?

A. Penn State
B. Penn State
C. Penn State
D. Baylor
E. Baylor
F. Baylor


G. Ga Tech

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Fuck Joe Paterno.

It was pretty bizarre how he went from alive and viewed as a hero to vilified and dead so damn quick.

 

[Strike]

NCAA reinstating those wins was a mistake. These people really should quit while they're ahead.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

NCAA reinstating those wins was a mistake. These people really should quit while they're ahead.

it still feels like Bizarro World that the NCAA reinstated the wins. I can't wrap my head around it. If you go back to that thread, a bunch of posters were pondering...

I'm assuming the statue will be back soon then.

So,

when will the re-erect the statue so the nutjob fanbase can continue to white wash St. Joe's place in child rape history?

How soon before the statue is taken out of storage?

God damn this is disgusting. Let's go ahead and bring the statue back too

Just wait until the statue is back up.

It'll happen.

We are well on our way

 

[FyreWulff]

NCAA reinstating those wins was a mistake. These people really should quit while they're ahead.

Not only got the wins back, most of the restrictions were immediately lifted as well

shameful

 

[Apathy]

These people are disgusting. Fuck them and fuck any past, present or future Penn state people that even have a drop of respect for that piece of shit. He allowed child sexual abuse to continue. Like who the fuck cares what he did for a game of football at a college. Get your priorities straights you fucks.