Support NeoGAF

[Kenstar]

I'm sure Mammoth can handle it, it's only a position being challenged.

When someone is posting every time we have a shooting thread here to portray the responsible gun-owner who is sick of this happening, argues constantly how important it is to see "common-sense changes" and how they can save lives, but financially contributes to the organisation stopping the implementation of any such common-sense changes on a national level, including even research into it to better find what could or should be done in America, and allows them to speak in his name, I'd say it's relevant.

That seems to fly in the face of common-sense, and if his NRA membership were to lapse I would see him as a more responsible gun-owner.

And no, I've yet to post about how important my AR named Carly is to me, or how God personally put it in my hand.

'Portray'? You think he's full of shit? What do you think of the gay people that eat at Chick Fil-a?

 

[shoreu]

Sure but there are enough crazy people and enough easily accessible guns to be a problem. And you don't have to be crazy. You can be angry, dumb, greedy, surprised, clumsy or just plain evil.

The idea that guns are harmless inert things requires that you ignore the fact that people have them.

We have a serious problem and it is exacerbated and defended and enabled by your attitude. Instead of dismissing the problem we all need to work together to address it. Guns don't work for self defense, and no proposed gun control would impact hunting or sport shooting or agricultural use.

And frankly "fun" isn't good enough when compared with the cost.

Sensible rational gun regulation needn't harm your sport. And I find it incredibly ironic that the sacred second amendment actually contains the expression "well regulated " while its proponents insist that regulation is an affront to that law.

.

Came to say something like this but i'm tired of typing it. I can't stand the ignorance that comes with the "Guns don't kill people argument"

 

[DECK'ARD]

'Portray'? You think he's full of shit? What do you think of the gay people that eat at Chick Fil-a?

Jimmies are being rustled. Seeing as his multitude of posts often have a variation of 'please stop painting all gun-owners as irresponsible', I don't think 'portray' is that off a word to characterise his efforts in shooting threads. And this slight fact gets in the way of it being wholly convincing.

However responsible his behaviour and views are at a personal level, his NRA membership is very irresponsible at a national level.

A gay person who was a paid member of a group that advocated against their expressed interests who ate at Chick Fil-A? I'd think they were an idiot.

 

[PBY]

'Portray'? You think he's full of shit? What do you think of the gay people that eat at Chick Fil-a?

Damn, DAT ANALOGY

 

[DECK'ARD]

Damn, DAT ANALOGY

Gun threads are king of them.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Cars, gays.... have we ever had a Hitler comparison yet?

Oh wait, NRA's the one who is so fond of doing that, huh.

 

[Kenstar]

Everyone always tries to brush aside the Hitler argument because it's uncomfortable to acknowledge that he took peoples guns away and look what happened there...

We didn't have these school shootings back when we had no gun free zones, and they'll only get worse unless these mentally deranged lunatics know that we'll start shooting back IMO

The culture's changed too, no one glorified violence and disrespect like they do these days

 

[FyreWulff]

Everyone always tries to brush aside the Hitler argument because it's uncomfortable to acknowledge that he took peoples guns away and look what happened there...

It wasn't gun control that allowed him to do what he did.

Look at how we sent Japanese American citizens to camps and took all of their houses and businesses - with the second amendment present the entire time.

We didn't have these school shootings back when we had no gun free zones

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming [..] four dead in Ohio..

and also this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

 

[Valhelm]

Everyone always tries to brush aside the Hitler argument because it's uncomfortable to acknowledge that he took peoples guns away and look what happened there...

We didn't have these school shootings back when we had no gun free zones, and they'll only get worse unless these mentally deranged lunatics know that we'll start shooting back IMO

The culture's changed too, no one glorified violence and disrespect like they do these days

1. Hitler decreased gun control for most Germans
2. Gun ownership has increased
3. Our culture absolutely has not gotten more violent. Have you never seen a Western from the '50s?

 

[Kenstar]

1. Hitler decreased gun control for most Germans
2. Gun ownership has increased
3. Our culture absolutely has not gotten more violent. Have you never seen a Western from the '50s?

old western movies were violent but taught values and hard work and honor

today's youth don't want to hear that and would rather listen to hip hop and rap music that promote violence and then these punks get on twitter and complain when treated like a hoodlum by law enforcement

Basically we need Godly values back in our once great society in order to stop the violence

 

[Dude Abides]

I always knew it was those damn rappers' fault.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Poe's Law? I honestly can't tell.

 

[Dai101]

old western movies were violent but taught values and hard work and honor

today's youth don't want to hear that and would rather listen to hip hop and rap music that promote violence and then these punks get on twitter and complain when treated like a hoodlum by law enforcement

Basically we need Godly values back in our once great society in order to stop the violence

What the fuuuuck.....

 

[Bleepey]

old western movies were violent but taught values and hard work and honor

today's youth don't want to hear that and would rather listen to hip hop and rap music that promote violence and then these punks get on twitter and complain when treated like a hoodlum by law enforcement

Basically we need Godly values back in our once great society in order to stop the violence

You almost got me there. Bravo

 

[Bodacious]

1. Hitler decreased gun control for most Germans

.....

"most"

Anyone care to guess who was kept disarmed?

 

[PBY]

old western movies were violent but taught values and hard work and honor

today's youth don't want to hear that and would rather listen to hip hop and rap music that promote violence and then these punks get on twitter and complain when treated like a hoodlum by law enforcement

Basically we need Godly values back in our once great society in order to stop the violence

oh. OHHHHHH.

 

[Aurongel]

This recent trend of comparing our gun laws to those of nazi Germany's to push an anti/pro gun control agenda just make me laugh with disapointment.

 

[Siegcram]

"most"

Anyone care to guess who was kept disarmed?

Are you a subscriber to the Ben Carson school of history?

 

[Bodacious]

Are you a subscriber to the Ben Carson school of history?

No, not at all. I just don't think saying that Hitler decreased gun control for "most" Germans (i.e. and in particular Nazi party members) is a very compelling argument against the position that the Nazis used gun control as part of a larger set of policies to keep a certain slice of the population as powerless as possible.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Jimmies are being rustled. Seeing as his multitude of posts often have a variation of 'please stop painting all gun-owners as irresponsible', I don't think 'portray' is that off a word to characterise his efforts in shooting threads. And this slight fact gets in the way of it being wholly convincing.

However responsible his behaviour and views are at a personal level, his NRA membership is very irresponsible at a national level.

A gay person who was a paid member of a group that advocated against their expressed interests who ate at Chick Fil-A? I'd think they were an idiot.

I leave the tread for a day and you're still bitching about me...

I mean it's fine if you think I'm irresponsible at "a national level". I exist in the real world on a very local level. So I make choices that suit my needs. Sorry if that rustles your jimmies that I'm not your ideal caricature of an NRA member. But I can be a member of that group and still have the beliefs I do.

Like I said I don't view the NRA as this horrible beast of a political machine. They are able to stop most gun control efforts because the people that want more honestly don't give a shit to get to work on a grass roots level and get politically active. Like I said: How many people here so passionate about gun control ain't donated shit or contacted their state representatives?

Most gun owners aren't a problem. If so you'd have about 100+ million shootings a day.

In closing: NRA ain't the problem. Your lack of action is the problem. I simply value the ability to defend my home and my family with deadly force if needed and I value the ability to practice at a range. So I joined a few gun orgs for various reasons. Does that mean I agree with everything they do all the time? No. But if I had to agree with everything 100% to participate I wouldn't be a part of much of anything in life. I respectfully disagree with your views but thankfully I'm a grown man that doesn't need random internet person telling me what's best for my situation.

 

[nynt9]

No, not at all. I just don't think saying that Hitler decreased gun control for "most" Germans (i.e. and in particular Nazi party members) is a very compelling argument against the position that the Nazis used gun control as part of a larger set of policies to keep a certain slice of the population as powerless as possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_theory

See the references in the article for a bunch of reading material.

In January 2013, Anti-Defamation League (ADL) director Abraham Foxman said in a press release: "The idea that supporters of gun control are doing something akin to what Hitler’s Germany did to strip citizens of guns in the run-up to the Second World War is historically inaccurate and offensive, especially to Holocaust survivors and their families."[23] Later that year, Jewish groups and Jersey City, New Jersey, mayor Steven Fulop criticized the NRA for comparing gun control supporters to Nazi Germany.[24] The Jewish Federation of Greater MetroWest NJ released a statement saying: "Access to guns and the systematic murder of six million Jews have no basis for comparison in the United States or in New Jersey. The Holocaust has no place in this discussion and it is offensive to link this tragedy to such a debate."[24]

The Jews of Germany constituted less than 1 percent of the country's population. It is preposterous to argue that the possession of firearms would have enabled them to mount resistance against a systematic program of persecution implemented by a modern bureaucracy, enforced by a well-armed police state, and either supported or tolerated by the majority of the German population. Mr. Carson’s suggestion that ordinary Germans, had they had guns, would have risked their lives in armed resistance against the regime simply does not comport with the regrettable historical reality of a regime that was quite popular at home. Inside Germany, only the army possessed the physical force necessary for defying or overthrowing the Nazis, but the generals had thrown in their lot with Hitler early on.[25]

 

[Mammoth Jones]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_theory

See the references in the article for a bunch of reading material.

Agreed. I'm not worried about the federal government coming to take me to a fema camp. I'm more worried about some Tulsa 1921 shit popping off again with the local and state level turning a blind eye... Fuck that.

I always knew it was those damn rappers' fault.

 

[Siegcram]

No, not at all. I just don't think saying that Hitler decreased gun control for "most" Germans (i.e. and in particular Nazi party members) is a very compelling argument against the position that the Nazis used gun control as part of a larger set of policies to keep a certain slice of the population as powerless as possible.

The argument always is "Hitler took away the guns!". Period.
He didn't. It's a lie.

And in the grand context, gun legislation doesn't even make the Top 1000 for why things played out the way they did for the Jewish people in Nazi Germany.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I leave the tread for a day and you're still bitching about me...

I mean it's fine if you think I'm irresponsible at "a national level". I exist in the real world on a very local level. So I make choices that suit my needs. Sorry if that rustles your jimmies that I'm not your ideal caricature of an NRA member. But I can be a member of that group and still have the beliefs I do.

Like I said I don't view the NRA as this horrible beast of a political machine. They are able to stop most gun control efforts because the people that want more honestly don't give a shit to get to work on a grass roots level and get politically active. Like I said: How many people here so passionate about gun control ain't donated shit or contacted their state representatives?

Most gun owners aren't a problem. If so you'd have about 100+ million shootings a day.

In closing: NRA ain't the problem. Your lack of action is the problem. I simply value the ability to defend my home and my family with deadly force if needed and I value the ability to practice at a range. So I joined a few gun orgs for various reasons. Does that mean I agree with everything they do all the time? No. But if I had to agree with everything 100% to participate I wouldn't be a part of much of anything in life. I respectfully disagree with your views but thankfully I'm a grown man that doesn't need random internet person telling me what's best for my situation.

So quite literally pass the buck.

To get change people must in your own words stop demonising gun-owners, work with them, but also out-gun them. Appropriate.

Something even responsible gun-owners such as yourself, who want to see change, are making more difficult by supplying ammo to the other side through NRA membership.

I can we why America has quite a problem here, vicious circles are the hardest to break. It's easier to pretend you're not in one.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

So quite literally pass the buck.

Not at all. I just support civilian gun ownership. This position will not change for me.

To get change people must in your own words stop demonising gun-owners, work with them, but also out-gun them. Appropriate.

I didn't make the rules. That's how our political system here works. Claiming everyone that doesn't support your "side" as "the enemy" is just a childish view of how the world is.

Something even responsible gun-owners such as yourself, who want to see change, are making more difficult by supplying ammo to the other side through NRA membership.

Like I said, the issue isn't my NRA membership. The issue is YOU and people like you that pound this issue on their keyboards while sipping their coffee don't get off their hides and put up their own cash towards organizations whose ideology they claim to support. That's your problem. Be a part of the change you want in your state, not just a part of the complaints.

I can we why America has quite a problem here, vicious circles are the hardest to break. It's easier to pretend you're not in one.

I can see how you'd believe that if you believe in guilt by association. I break the cycle by handling, storing, and using my firearms responsibly.

Not so much "pass the buck" but more "Bitching about gun owners who tends to follow the law won't accomplish much beyond ideological masturbation".

And yes, you should consider the views of gun owners when crafting and implementing policy that affects them.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Not at all. I just support civilian gun ownership. This position will not change for me.



I didn't make the rules. That's how our political system here works. Claiming everyone that doesn't support your "side" as "the enemy" is just a childish view of how the world is.



Like I said, the issue isn't my NRA membership. The issue is YOU and people like you that pound this issue on their keyboards while sipping their coffee don't get off their hides and put up their own cash towards organizations whose ideology they claim to support. That's your problem. Be a part of the change you want in your state, not just a part of the complaints.



I can see how you'd believe that if you believe in guilt by association. I break the cycle by handling, storing, and using my firearms responsibly.

Not so much "pass the buck" but more "Bitching about gun owners who tends to follow the law won't accomplish much beyond ideological masturbation".

And yes, you should consider the views of gun ownership

I can't even find a valid argument anywhere in here, just heavy denial of responsibility. It's all passing the buck, every single bit of it.

To compare it to a junkie again, which the start of your post perfectly encapsulates, if the NRA is your pusher then by donating I'd actually be your enabler. Working to mitigate the negative consequences of something you admit, thus allowing you to continue it.

How incredibly fucked up all round.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I can't even find a valid argument anywhere in here, just heavy denial of responsibility. It's all passing the buck, every single bit of it.

That's because you view me as responsible for gun crime because I'm a member of the NRA. Sorry but I have a bit more of an individualist mindset than you. I'm responsible for my actions. Fortunately that's the way our legal system works else I'd be tried for what? Contributing to crime? Lol. Fuck outta here with that.

To compare it to a junkie again, which the start of your post perfectly encapsulates, if the NRA is your pusher then by donating I'd actually be your enabler. Working to mitigate the negative consequences of something you admit, thus allowing you to continue it.

How incredibly fucked up all round.

Those negative consequences are going to exist in the US regardless given the proliferation of untraceable firearms that's already occurred regardless of if you ban civilian firearm ownership or not. This is why your "side" always loses because you waste your energy vilifying and attacking law abiding (I know...I know...everyone's a potential terrorist/criminal/etc) gun owners. But you're right. Just continue to complain on the Internet. That'll fix it.

Like I said, if you wanna continue to bitch about me specifically feel free to toss me a PM.

 

[DECK'ARD]

That's because you view me as responsible for gun crime because I'm a member of the NRA. Sorry but I have a bit more of an individualist mindset than you. I'm responsible for my actions. Fortunately that's the way our legal system works else I'd be tried for what? Contributing to crime? Lol. Fuck outta here with that.



Those negative consequences are going to exist regardless of if you ban civilian firearm ownership or not. This is why your "side" always loses because you waste your energy vilifying and attacking law abiding (I know...I know...everyone's a potential terrorist/criminal/etc) gun owners.You're right. Just continue to complain on the Internet. That'll fix it.

Like I said, if you wanna continue to bitch about me specifically feel free to toss me a PM.

For an individualist you certainly have a very us against them mentality, even conjuring up "attacks" that weren't made.

Don't worry, I'm done. You can't reason with an addict, but you have given me a far better understanding of the problems America faces and why it's going to be much harder to do anything over there than was done here.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

For an individualist you certainly have a very us against them mentality, even conjuring up "attacks" that weren't made.

You the one mentioning "sides" just as much. Gimme a break.

Don't worry, I'm done. You can't reason with an addict, but you have given me a far better understanding of the problems America faces and why it's going to be much harder to do anything over there than was done here.

You contradict yourself when you claim you're not making attacks yet you're calling me an "addict" and implying that I'm the reason why there's gun crime.

Yes it's harder to do anything (i.e ban civilian firearm ownership) when civilian firearm owners don't want their firearms banned. Shocking I know. Your solutions would be easier to implement if no one disagreed. Brilliant.

 

[appaws]

Like I said, the issue isn't my NRA membership. The issue is YOU and people like you that pound this issue on their keyboards while sipping their coffee don't get off their hides and put up their own cash towards organizations whose ideology they claim to support. That's your problem. Be a part of the change you want in your state, not just a part of the complaints.

The gun grabbing organizations don't have a problem with money. They are bankrolled by people like Michael Bloomberg, Soros, and the MacArthur Foundation. The problem they have is that nobody cares outside of a statist elite. These groups have no members, they are an office in Washington with a few hired staffers. The American people don't want to be disarmed and will never agree to be disarmed.

They hate the NRA, of course, and well they should. The heroes of the NRA, from the president down to the $35 dues paying members, should bask in their hate, because it shows just how effective we are. Every politician outside of their latte sipping enclaves knows what it means to threaten a fundamental liberty. Good!

Of course Mammoth is right though. If the revocation of one of our rights is of such importance to you, by all means go out and work for it. This is a republic, after all.