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Adam Sessler & Albert Penello on the Xbox One (Interview)

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Barzul

Member
What does looking 30-40% better even mean, forreals. How do you measure looking better? I can understand better framerates, but how do you measure looks?
 

GavinGT

Banned
It would seem to me that we've reached such a high level of graphic fidelity that a 30-40% difference wouldn't be terribly noticeable. As graphics continue to improve, it becomes exponentially more difficult to "wow" audiences with improvements.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I'm sure he is in a much better position to know than even our most respected resident tech guys

On the other hand, the technology and computer science involved in this issue isn't secret voodoo either.
 

Freki

Member
Yeah, he did fine and the Sess didn't toss him softball questions at all.

The power difference argument in a nutshell seems to be that the bone has a more "balanced" design with fewer bottlenecks, so that in the end the practical results will be negligible.

Do I have that right? I get the bottleneck part, but not the balance part so much. Balancing what and what?

"Balancing" will be the job of actual Devs who have to decide what to put into the eSRAM and when...
 

Pain

Banned
Considering Albert is a payed Microsoft employee, shouldn't his motives be questioned?
If he just wanted mingle with the NeoGaf community, he could just use an alias.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Honestly I don't see how that shows GAF got to him at all. His posts always come off as clear and level-headed. He has an opinion on this and he thinks things aren't as black and white as many here are making it out to be. Doesn't really sound passive aggressive at all tbh.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a post like this fulls of Caps Lock and attacks on Sony from him on GAF before, and I'm not sure why he felt it was necessary now.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.
 

avaya

Member
I am employed by MSFT, and I post on this forum. I posted and lurked this forum before I was an employee. Please do not equate 'being paid by X company to post' with 'being paid by X company and posting'. I'd imagine my org would probably not want me to post here.

Maybe you should read the first sentence. The second sentence is a general statement, have you revealed your name and position? No.
 
You think the average Joe gamer is going to tell the difference?? I know you and I will... but from what I can tell Albert is thinking more the mainstream gamers.

Maybe I am reaching here..

Can you state any launch games on either system that is head and shoulders above??

outside of threads & articles of what devs have said about one title looking slightly better than another out of the 2 platforms, I think we have no idea because they are showing the version of one system or another to the public & not both.

& saying that the gap wont widen over 10 years with the graphics hardware differences is kind of....um crazy?
 

Pug

Member
Perhaps you are right but I was supporting Albert more for what he said and to ignore the nonsense compared to what he knows to be true based on actually working on the machine and talking with devs as they are making the games on these machines.

I'm sure he is in a much better position to know than even our most respected resident tech guys

I'm sure also, but you wait till the games are out and people are counting sparks.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Doesn't NeoGaf have a policy against people like Albert posting here? We're all biased, but he is payed to be.
Nope. He is identified as a Microsoft employee and posts under his real name.
What is not allowed is shill while pretending to not be a shill.

If it wasn't allowed it would say "Banned" under his user name.
 
The XBox One is a new console. A shiny new gadget that gets us excited and practically sells itself. Instead of riding that wave of momentum, Microsoft decided to introduce policies that had us question "how much are these guys going to screw me", then after an unprecedented 180 we're left with PR folk that are hopping on the trolley to the Land of Make-Believe when discussing raw specs. It's like Microsoft is sabotaging itself for launch day.
 
The XBox One is a new console. A shiny new gadget that gets us excited and practically sells itself. Instead of riding that wave of momentum, Microsoft decided to introduce policies that had us question "how much are these guys going to screw me", then after an unprecedented 180 we're left with PR folk that are hopping on the trolley to the Land of Make-Believe when discussing raw specs. It's like Microsoft is sabotaging itself for launch day.

Doesn't NeoGaf have a policy against people like Albert posting here? We're all biased, but he is payed to be.

You 2 are something else.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
It would seem to me that we've reached such a high level of graphic fidelity that a 30-40% difference wouldn't be terribly noticeable. As graphics continue to improve, it becomes exponentially more difficult to "wow" audiences with improvements.

This is a fair point. But to those of us who like to dissect things I'm sure we will be looking. That's what the point of the richer tech oriented threads does. I like that. This is another type of discussion though.
 
The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great.

This is blatantly nonsense. They might see minimal differences. They might not care about the differences, but put them side by side and there will absolutely be differences.

I struggle to think of many multiplatform titles from any generation where there were no visible differences, however minor those may have been. I don't think the differences will be big enough for most people to care, but I also don't think that the Xbone is going to come out ahead of the PS4 in many, if any, multiplatform title comparisons.
 

mbmonk

Member
which is still more options than the apple app store , google play , steam , impulse , origin and any others i'm forgetting

These arguments have been handled before. Cell Phones <> Consoles <> PCs. Stop it with the false equivalencies.

EDIT: You are correct there is no private sale with those vendors, but there are other things that offset that ( price mainly, or access to multiple vendors on that platform PC ). But again the cellphone, PC, and consoles have different hardware and capabilities, serve different custumers, different consumer expectation, have different distribution models, etc.. That is why I classify it as a false equivalency.
 
Perhaps you guys should explain to your potential audience what's in your system that apparently bridges the gap between these two systems. Sony has been open about their system specs and Microsoft has not. The GPU and RAM advantages of the PS4 are there for everyone to see but Microsoft is not doing anything at all to dismiss the raw numbers or demonstrate WHY the numbers are deceiving. This is especially important considering the apparent lack of architectural differences of each system. If there's something in your system (such as extra chips for handling compute or some other level of customization) then why aren't you talking about it!? It's not like your competition can respond at this point. I mean you say that your company wouldn't let Sony get away with such an advantage but in the minds of gamers, that's exactly what you're doing. Making the assumption that they're "all bark and no bite" is probably not a good idea.

I appreciate that you're not on here spouting a bunch of PR BS but I (and I'm sure many others) would really appreciate a bit of transparency when it comes to the actual hardware. If you expect people to pay an extra $100 for your system, shouldn't we at least be allowed to know what's powering it and what puts it in line with the competition?

Has Sony really been all that open? What's the CPU speed again and the full architecture as laid out by MS at HotChips?
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
insiders on Gaf was what made Gaf in the early 2000's. Stop trying to run them out.

Albert is open about his job and position. He has the right to post like anyone else.

Nope. He is identified as a Microsoft employee and posts under his real name.
What is not allowed is shill while pretending to not be a shill.

If it wasn't allowed it would say "Banned" under his user name.

Doesn't NeoGaf have a policy against people like Albert posting here? We're all biased, but he is payed to be.

What I thought was interesting is that apparently Major Nelson tried to get a GAF account in the past but was never approved (from Albert's mouth)?
 
Doesn't NeoGaf have a policy against people like Albert posting here? We're all biased, but he is payed to be.
Most people posting on GAF as an insider or any kind of company position gets verified by mods privately.


The fact that he isn't banned is all the answer you need.
 

avaya

Member
Doesn't NeoGaf have a policy against people like Albert posting here? We're all biased, but he is payed to be.

What's wrong with him posting here? He isn't hiding behind an anonymous name and has revealed his position in MS PR. People are free to make up their own minds.

Clearly he is verging on having a Jeff Bell moment here but I find it amusing.
 

Curufinwe

Member
The power difference argument in a nutshell seems to be that the bone has a more "balanced" design with fewer bottlenecks, so that in the end the practical results will be negligible.

Do I have that right? I get the bottleneck part, but not the balance part so much. Balancing what and what?

I'm not criticizing you because I've seen this said elsewhere, but I don't know how we got to the point where the system that needs specialized features and hardware to address it's much lower bandwidth is somehow more balanced with fewer bottlenecks.
 

Klocker

Member
On the other hand, the technology and computer science involved in this issue isn't secret voodoo either.



some of it is. :) he said we actually do not know everything about the architecture yet.


no... not secret sauce... but this is a new untested design and maybe the results are surprising even conceptual computer science in the real world application?
 

stryke

Member
Perhaps you are right but I was supporting Albert more for what he said and to ignore the nonsense compared to what he knows to be true based on actually working on the machine and talking with devs as they are making the games on these machines.

I'm sure he is in a much better position to know than even our most respected resident tech guys

So why is it that you're giving more weight to the words of Penello when Cerny has gone out to proclaim that multiplatform titles will be better on their system.

Wouldn't he be in a similar situation as Penello right now?
 

StoopKid

Member
True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled – no prep or anything. I’m surprised I didn’t come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which I’m not a big fan of, because, well… look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

I’m not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who don’t. I’ve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. I’ve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I don’t get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which I’m not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also – this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install – Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I don’t have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because you’d be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs – at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes away…

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

tumblr_lnnz7not2E1ql141xo1_250.gif
 

Gowans

Member
I appreciate Alberts posts here and think I read them for what they are, frank, honest and trying to be clear and give us the info we're desperate for.

It's funny times right now and there is a lot of bashing, agendas or people trying to get reactions.

I'm just looking forward to getting my next gen hardware for the first time in 8 years and playing some great games.
 

demolitio

Member
I don't get comparing the current launch games (subjectively) to prove that the power difference isn't noticeable when even Sony themselves say it won't be as evident until a few years from now. Even then, if some of those articles about mulitplatform devs saying one is more powerful than the other are true already, then how can you still say that? Subjectively comparing first-party games when third-party games haven't even been shown on both systems is something you'd expect to find on here, not as an answer from someone "in the know".

Otherwise, good interview. I understand the need to defend against the power comments, but at least let it be a good point and not something so subjective and early that it's impossible to even say.
 
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