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[shinobi602]

Driveclub is better looking than Forza. Easily.

"Easily"? That's a little far...hell, we haven't even seen direct feed footage of the game. That direct feed from a week or so ago was blurry as hell, need better footage to judge.

 

[avaya]

Drive club looks awful.

 

[Klocker]

What the fuck are you talking about? The PS4 is more powerful, no amount of PR bullshit is going to change that. The PS4 and Xbox One are more directly comparable than any competing consoles before due to having the same processor and architecture.

closed system efficiency is their main design intent for Xbone IMO

Also, I edited my post before you quoted saying my numbers were from my ass to be used as an example of the theory

 

[Knuf]

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

So you purposefully didn't target the highest graphics hw just to show the world that your programmers are smarter than those who work at Sony?
DAT spin, wow.
Also, you didn't get the memo that OpenGL is actually faster and more optimized than DirectX, did you?

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

What the fuck are you talking about? The PS4 is more powerful, no amount of PR bullshit is going to change that. The PS4 and Xbox One are more directly comparable than any competing consoles before due to having the same processor and architecture.

Jeez. The guy you replied to even stated he's no expert. Why are you so hostile?

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

Drive club looks awful.

stop trolling.

 

[Saint Francis]

"The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great."

Here's a theory, but seems plausible to me: Maybe he's implying that 3rd party developers might even out the looks/performance of next-gen multi platform games. Reasons they may do so run the possible gamut:
money hats,
quicker & easier workflow for developers,
exclusivity deals might expand to include $ to keep it looking even*,

*(To defend this theory, I would ask: What incentive do EA or Activision, Ubi, etc. have to make their PS4 versions of games look & perform 30-40% better then (possibly) half of their potential customers platform. It seems to me a big gap would hurt their sales across the entire market more than "keeping them roughly even" would, no?)

 

[Amir0x]

Driveclub is better looking than Forza. Easily.

In fact I'm sure a lot of people would agree that's one of the problems with the game. They're pushing so much graphics stuff that they can't guarantee it'll be 60fps in a genre that demands it.

Yeah but framerate is part of visuals; it dramatically impacts the way a game looks and runs. So I think it's a bit misleading to say 'Of course Driveclub looks better, that's why it's 30fps', because the framerate is a part of the calculations over whether something looks better or not.

That said, I'd say the amount of extra stuff DriveClub is doing technically, outside of framerate, massacres Forza 5, but the framerate is all-important in a racing game, so I can't endorse that direction. I am pretty sure DriveClub 2 will up the framerate, however. This is launch rushing with hardware every developer on earth thought would only have 4GB of GDDR5 up to February 21. The next DriveClub I feel will do its job in all ways

 

[The Living Tribunal]

Saying "we made DirectX, therefore there's no way we can be beaten on graphics programming" comes across as rather arrogant to me.

I guess it's a good thing he didn't say that.

Stop putting words in other people's mouth, FFS.

 

[Diablo Rosso]

closed system efficiency is their main design intent IMO

Also I edited my post before you quoted saying my numbers were from my ass to be used as an example of the theory

I don't know what to say.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Driveclub is better looking than Forza. Easily.

That's a little premature. Lets wait tell they are both on actual consoles...and we have better video comparisons.

Something tells me that we haven't seen the big picture yet.

 

[Chobel]

I'm no expert like some here but I think the theory of their design is based on (95% efficiency of 1.3 is much closer to 80% efficiency of 1.8)*

*random numbers out my ass for example

In order for their design to work they need PS4 GPU efficiency < 70% all time.

 

[beast786]

Drive club looks awful.

 

[Marleyman]

Thread talking about Sessler and Penello has dissolved to Forza vs #driveclub....stop.

 

[Gurrry]

My favorite bullshit "feature" is the "play the game before its done installing" crap.

You mean the Xbox One comes with the feature to read and play from the disc?

Holy shit! Thank you so much! How generous of you.

 

[Pain]

What is it with the juniors lately?

You disagree? Albert isn't just posting in Neogaf, he seems to in full damage control mode.
Statements like "We created Direct X" is crossing into fanboy territory IMO.

 

[LiK]

Thread talking about Sessler and Penello has dissolved to Forza vs #driveclub....stop.

it's gonna get better

 

[Thorgal]

and as long as they don't start threads. I believe. They can only join in on existing discussions.

If i remember the T.O.S right he is allowed to make threads as long as it is not for advertising his own game .product or system.

yep right here:

E. Self-Promotion and Spam

Do not create new threads promoting a product or service you have any involvement in, or paste PR materials for promotional purposes, or attempt to embed referral links in your posts to generate revenue. If an existing discussion is taking place directly involving something you are associated with, you may participate in order to answer questions, clarify details, and otherwise engage with the community, but as a person, not an advertisement.

So if Albert wants to make a thread about.say oculus rift .that is perfectly fine .

however if he made a thread to advertise the X1 the thread would be closed and he would likely receive a ban.

anyway. this is OT .

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

@Salvor
This link is from the developer of Need For Speed, talking about how one console will look " a little better" than the other one.

 

[SwiftDeath]

"The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great."

Here's a theory, but seems plausible to me: Maybe he's implying that 3rd party developers might even out the looks/performance of next-gen multi platform games. Reasons they may do so run the possible gamut:
money hats,
quicker & easier workflow for developers,
exclusivity deals might expand to include $ to keep it looking even*,

*(To defend this theory, I would ask: What incentive do EA or Activision, Ubi, etc. have to make their PS4 versions of games look & perform 30-40% better then (possibly) half of their potential customers platform. It seems to me a big gap would hurt their sales across the entire market more than "keeping them roughly even" would, no?)

So why did every multiplat not look the exact same on PS3 compared to Xbox 360?

What motivation did they have to make the 360 version look better?

1. Devs aren't lazy and X360 is more powerful
2. X360 was easier to develop for
3. MS was paying for better multiplats [tinfoil hat theory]

PS4 is more powerful and seemingly has better dev tools at this point so we'll see

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Thread talking about Sessler and Penello has dissolved to Forza vs #driveclub....stop.

This is a 5 step program. Phase 4 has begun.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Thread talking about Sessler and Penello has dissolved to Forza vs #driveclub....stop.

We should be getting lists soon at this rate.

 

[Withnail]

I guess it's a good thing he never said that.

Stop putting words in other people's mouth, FFS.

OK I'm paraphrasing slightly, but I don't think I'm misconstruing anything.

We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony

 

[NullPointer]

My favorite bullshit "feature" is the "play the game before its done installing" crap.

You mean the Xbox One comes with the feature to read and play from the disc?

Holy shit! Thank you so much! How generous of you.

Or... the game plays off of hard disk, by design, but doesn't need the entire game to exist on that hard disk before allowing you to start playing.

I believe this is whats being referred to (not reading off the optical disc), and is a feature on both the bone and the PS4.

 

[Chobel]

@Salvor
This link is from the developer of Need For Speed, talking about how one console will look " a little better" than the other one.

The best very is probably Xbox one version.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

My favorite bullshit "feature" is the "play the game before its done installing" crap.

You mean the Xbox One comes with the feature to read and play from the disc?

Holy shit! Thank you so much! How generous of you.

I don't think play before you install means what you think it does.

 

[Klocker]

I don't know what to say.

I'm saying maybe the ESRAM and the design around it is working better for the whole system to keep the GPU fed in actual game design than we (or maybe they) thought it would ... I never said it was more powerful than PS4, and Albert only said that is a lot closer than the numbers people are using as their metric.

 

[GoofsterStud]

So why did every multiplat not look the exact same on PS3 compared to Xbox 360?

What motivation did they have to make the 360 version look better?

1. Devs aren't lazy and X360 is more powerful
2. X360 was easier to develop for
3. MS was paying for better multiplats [tinfoil hat theory]

PS4 is more powerful and seemingly has better dev tools at this point so we'll see

Xbox 360 had the better GPU, better memory, and worse CPU...

Same thing the PS4 has going for it though the gaps are bigger and the cpu isn't nearly as weak in comparison. Also same architecture...meaning hardly any amount of work will be needed to port from one system to the other...

 

[Pain]

I guess it's a good thing he didn't say that.

Stop putting words in other people's mouth, FFS.

He might as well have said it. PS4 isn't just powerful on paper. I'm sure those more literate in tech can explain it much better than I ever could.

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

The best very is probably Xbox one version.

how do you come to that conclusion?

 

[avaya]

I'm saying maybe the ESRAM and the design around it is working better for the whole system in actual game design than we (or maybe they) thought it would ... I never said it was more powerful than PS4, and Albert only said that is a lot closer than the numbers people are using as their metric.

You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Marleyman]

We should be getting lists soon at this rate.

This place is seriously going to be difficult to wade through come launch. The amount of blood that will be spilled is going to be insane.

 

[Bad_Boy]

We should be getting lists soon at this rate.

then come the gifs.

 

[BigTnaples]

Drive club looks awful.

Totally.

 

[timlot]

Forza 5 and Ryse look better than anything coming for PS4 day one.

This is true. Killzone is nice too, but so is Battlefield and COD. Ryse (single player) is visually the only title I've seen that screams next gen.

I though Infamous Second Son was something special until I checked out videos of past Infamous games and it pretty much the same game play theme.

 

[Wynnebeck]

This is true. Killzone is nice too, but so is Battlefield and COD. Ryse (single player) is visually the only title I've seen that screams next gen.

I though Infamous Second Son was something special until I checked out videos of past Infamous games and it pretty the same game play theme.

You were doing well until the very end. We're talking visuals, not gameplay champ.

 

[admartian]

God, I hope you continue posting, because I sure do love reading it. I have a funny feeling the bolded will be especially true. The thing is, even if the guy works for Microsoft, it isn't impossible that with what he might know secretly about the full details of the platform architecture, and from what he has heard or seen regarding some of the work going on, particularly at the programming and Directx api level, that he has a genuine and, perhaps more informed, view and belief of what will be possible on the Xbox One, irrespective of what will surely be amazing things shown on the PS4.

The point is, just because the PS4 has a well documented on paper advantage that looks pretty sizeable, doesn't mean that Microsoft has to act like they're at a disadvantage. That's a key point, because it seems some really get annoyed or aggravated at the thought that Microsoft won't publicly state that they somehow won't be able to measure up because of what we've seen on paper, and I've maintained for the longest that no matter what the specs look like on the two systems, Microsoft can still very much push the Xbox One as a console that's second to none in power and capability. The raw numbers have never led me to believe that Microsoft has to, or would even consider, somehow shrinking from a discussion regarding hardware performance capability. And they don't have to, because the Xbox One hardware will do incredible things. That isn't somehow restricted to the PS4



That bandaid sure worked out quite well for the Xbox 360 with EDRAM. It isn't difficult to see that current generation developers, who clearly have extensive experience with EDRAM on the Xbox 360, may be uniquely in position to hit the ground running with the more versatile ESRAM on the Xbox One. It might be more complex, but after coming from the Xbox 360, embedded memory on a Microsoft console is a thing that's very well known, and Microsoft will have more than likely provided developers with the right information and perfect set of tools to best take advantage of it.

You like a post that enforces your hopes and dreams that the system/brand/product of your choice is seemingly being "confirmed" as sneakily superior; and touted by a guy that works for the manufacturer of said product of choice, has to say?

You surprise me.

 

[flyinpiranha]

He's reading comments and being defensive about power differences and yield issue rumors. It's getting to him.

He's answering questions, the ones that he can. I don't see that as "defensive".

 

[Pug]

My favorite bullshit "feature" is the "play the game before its done installing" crap.

You mean the Xbox One comes with the feature to read and play from the disc?

Holy shit! Thank you so much! How generous of you.

And this is why many really shouldn't be posting in this thread.

 

[Raist]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a post like this fulls of Caps Lock and attacks on Sony from him on GAF before, and I'm not sure why he felt it was necessary now.

The nice sugarcoating covering the BS might be starting to wear off a little bit.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Xbox 360 had the better GPU, better memory, and worse CPU...

Same thing the PS4 has going for it though the gaps are bigger and the cpu isn't nearly as week in comparison. Also same architecture...meaning hardly any amount of work will be needed to port from one system to the other...

Right it really depends on whether devs make the minimal effort (it seems like minimal effort from where I stand) to take advantage of the PS4's extra horses

After all a Z06 should offer more performance to a standard corvette....

 

[Piggus]

That bandaid sure worked out quite well for the Xbox 360 with EDRAM. It isn't difficult to see that current generation developers, who clearly have extensive experience with EDRAM on the Xbox 360, may be uniquely in position to hit the ground running with the more versatile ESRAM on the Xbox One. It might be more complex, but after coming from the Xbox 360, embedded memory on a Microsoft console is a thing that's very well known, and Microsoft will have more than likely provided developers with the right information and perfect set of tools to best take advantage of it.

The only reason it worked out well is because the PS3's memory setup was idiotic by comparison. I doubt devs will have major issues with the eSRAM, but it's still a less elegant setup than single fast pool of memory. It certainly does NOT provide any kind of advantage.

 

[quickwhips]

So why did every multiplat not look the exact same on PS3 compared to Xbox 360?

What motivation did they have to make the 360 version look better?

1. Devs aren't lazy and X360 is more powerful
2. X360 was easier to develop for
3. MS was paying for better multiplats [tinfoil hat theory]

PS4 is more powerful and seemingly has better dev tools at this point so we'll see

No one tried to make PS3 games look shitty. They tried to get both to look the same and failed so they had to remove some stuff ect resolution effects stuff like that. No one tried to make one look worst than other.

 

[artist]

how do you come to that conclusion?

It's obvious, come on!

 

[IN&OUT]

closed system efficiency is their main design intent for Xbone IMO

Also, I edited my post before you quoted saying my numbers were from my ass to be used as an example of the theory

What would you say if I told you that PS4 is the more efficient system of the two? I didn't say that from my behind, it was AMD (makers of both X1 and PS4 APUs) who said it.

remember hUMA?

 

[derFeef]

My favorite bullshit "feature" is the "play the game before its done installing" crap.

You mean the Xbox One comes with the feature to read and play from the disc?

Holy shit! Thank you so much! How generous of you.

I don't think you understand that feature. Also the PS4 can do this as well.

 

[lastflowers]

Yes that's right you haven't revealed your name explicitly. You haven't entered the discussion with "Hi I'm Albert from MSFT". That is the point. Which you seemed to have missed.

So, is it because he joined the forum after he started working at Microsoft the thing you are trying to point out?

 

[plagiarize]

Right now there is?? I am not even talking about the future which is a forgone conclusion but for right now I am not seeing it.

I was very specific. Put a multiplat like NFS side by side on final hardware and there will be differences. It might be different anti aliasing methods. It might be different shadowing methods. They might both look arguably as good as the other.

But there will be visible differences. They will drop frames in different places (if they drop). Unless your game isn't pushing either system, the amount of effort you would have to put into making both versions look identical would be massively wasted over making each version look as good as it can on that particular console.

There is no way you achieve complete parity in a AAA title. There is no sane reason to even try.

Close enough most people don't care? Sure. No visible differences? Utter nonsense.

Edit: Also, do you know what game is the most visually impressive next gen game to me? That'd be Resogun. If you disagree with me, I'm sure someone else will be kind enough to bust out the GIF. We weren't far off 1080p 60 fps in racing games last gen. Forza looks amazing, yes, but it's basically what we couldn't quite achieve last gen, made possible by the new hardware. Armageddon in Resogun, which is also 1080p and 60 fps... is mind blowing.

 

[Amir0x]

This place is seriously going to be difficult to wade through come launch. The amount of blood that will be spilled is going to be insane.

But it's also the purest form of gamer passion that exists, the distilled weeks of launch chaos, and I can't wait for it

 

[benny_a]

No one tried to make PS3 games look shitty. They tried to get both to look the same and failed so they had to remove some stuff ect resolution effects stuff like that. No one tried to make one look worst than other.

But why didn't they "remove some stuff ect resolution effects stuff like that" for the 360 version as well?