Support NeoGAF

[benny_a]

Stahp, shinobi. The big picture isn't important!

The big picture where due to the yield issues they are launching in fewer countries than they initially announced. Yep yep, yield issues are not important.

 

[Uno Venova]

Well, I guess if so many are keen that it has any bearing on enjoying their consoles and games, carry on I guess.

What are you talking about now? People aren't enjoying their games in this thread?

 

[Pain]

Except when Albert comes here, he is doing his job.

He is trying to influence how people view Xbox One. He is talking a lot of shit without any kind of proof.

He's trying to curb the idea that PS4 is more powerful. He wants to disprove that notion, but has no proof to back it up other than, trust me.

Major Nelson, Albert and the unnamed Microsoft Dev started posting more frequently on here and on other places to change the tone of conversations about Microsoft. Instant access to PR control techniques.

If you look at things that Major Nelson says like "we passed cert long ago" like Albert posted on the same day as Major Nelson, you would see that they are on message. They are about disseminating information slowly and in a controlled manner.

The Ars Technica interview with Albert talking about how Sony is being let off the hook because they don't show their hardware in the box was very recent. I imagine his recent aggressive posts are part of the messaging plan in the coming weeks.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this.

 

[IN&OUT]

Point is I don't think we accomplish anything with the "he's not one of us" mantra. He may work for Microsoft, but I think he's just as much welcome to voice his opinion here as anyone else is.

We should encourage more people in the industry to come here and express their views, not seemingly trying to treat it as this dishonest and evil plan to program us all to think what they want us to think.

Instead of accusing him of spewing PR that should be disregarded at all times, how about engaging the guy on some specific points in hopes that we actually get some interesting insight into something we maybe didn't know before. He can't break too much news, because there's certain things he can't say of course, but saying something like PS4 has 32 ROPS you have 16 ROPS, PS4 has this much teraflops, you have this much, what say you? That isn't going to get us anywhere, because the obvious response to that is to simply have confidence in what is being down on your own company's product.

Lets ask the guy if Killer Instinct is running at 1080p native or 720p like suggested recently, or if he's not sure, maybe he can get confirmation on what it's running at for us.

Lets ask him what the resolution of Ryse is.

Let's ask him why we still haven't gotten that awesome Ryse vidoc released in proper high quality yet, and when can we expect to see it?

Hell, let's ask him specific stuff about the Xbox One architecture, and if there are any Microsoft specific customizations that he knows about, and that he can enlighten us on. What benefits has he heard about regarding texturing from ESRAM, or any benefits they might be getting using specific techniques.

He implied that there's some architecture related stuff that we don't know regarding the Xbox One just yet. Are we going to eventually learn about those? If so? Any timeframe? If they're at all significant, will we get an explanation?

When are we going to get a more thorough explanation of what was displayed at hot chips? We'd like to know how Microsoft arrived at their bandwidth figures. What is it about ESRAM that allows it to reach such values. What type of ESRAM is it? What is that thin black arrow leading from the CPU coherent path down to the ESRAM all about? I'm sure he can't answer all of this, but we could be using this opportunity to get some cool info.

He brought it to himself when he neglected the power difference. Logical response from gaf would be: How would the difference wont matter despite having those numbers laid in front of us. it's either MS thinks we are idiots or they are flat out lying. if Albert cannot answer those specific questions then why comment on it in the first place? problem is he dissed Sony and started bragging about the great minds in MS ! ( we are MS, we created DirectX, We are the best in the world...etc)

This is what caused all this, if he tried to simply clarify that X1 is a capable machine without bringing PS4 to the picture, this thread would have ended long ago.

 

[Fresh Face]

I'm not sure I follow what some of you are saying here.

So Albert Penello has a right to voice an opinion? I agree

But people shouldn't call him out for the things he say? Why not exactly? It's pretty obvious the man is doing some damage control here and people call him out. No reason why people have to be extra nice to him or something. We don't have to just ask a certain type of question from the man..this is not a press interview

There's nothing wrong with calling him out. It's just that many people are acting like it means that we can't listen to a word he says, and that nobody else does this.

People are acting like JABEEs post is some great revelation. Can we just do what Senjutosage suggested?

This is also not a conspiracy against MS...it happened with Shahid from Sony as well rather recently.

Wait, what?

 

[ThatChairMan]

Even if we don't think he's "one of us," we should appreciate the fact that he's coming here. I'm not sure why every thread has to divulge into a war.

It's mostly due to how any post he makes now is picked apart piece by piece. Argument starters, contradictions, promises, etc. Even that one thread he made a while back showing the Xbox One setup in his home got in inordinate amount of nitpicking.

 

[shinobi602]

oh get off your high horse. You're the guy who started the whole MS Rep on twitter deal right? Don't think it had any effect on your enjoyment of gaming then either but yet you called it out

Of course it had an effect on my gaming, I'm very opposed online DRM bullshit.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Sorry, but there is no reason to resort to personal attacks over engaging him in a rational discussion unless you're over-invested emotionally in some perceived console war.

I'm not condoning those posts. I have ignore an equal amount of bad posts from both sides and called out some.

 

[Fresh Face]

He brought it to himself when he neglected the power difference. Logical response from gaf would be: How would the difference wont matter despite having those numbers laid in front of us. it's either MS thinks we are idiots or they are flat out lying. if Albert cannot answer those specific questions then why comment on it in the first place? problem is he dissed Sony and started bragging about the great minds in MS !

This is what caused all this, if he tried to simply clarify that X1 is a capable machine without bringing PS4 to the picture, this thread would have ended long ago.

Hate to break it to you, but from past experience, I can attest to the falsity of this statement. It would not have ended long ago, because so many on GAF (not all, obviously) like to start comparing.

In fact, I don't believe he did initially. People dragged him into it.

If he still hadn't, then people would have "called him out" for ignoring the competition. "The Hubris!"

 

[not_so_special]

. Infamous looks good, but not as great as a lot of people seem to make it out to be. Whenever I look at shots, I see way too many imperfections. It's not bad, and it most certainly is next gen, but it's not like the One couldn't run the game.

.

i have seen infamous second son on person and its the best looking game of all the next gen ones,with a difference

 

[LukasTaves]

Except when Albert comes here, he is doing his job.

He is trying to influence how people view Xbox One. He is talking a lot of shit without any kind of proof.

He's trying to curb the idea that PS4 is more powerful. He wants to disprove that notion, but has no proof to back it up other than, trust me.

Major Nelson, Albert and the unnamed Microsoft Dev started posting more frequently on here and on other places to change the tone of conversations about Microsoft. Instant access to PR control techniques.

If you look at things that Major Nelson says like "we passed cert long ago" like Albert posted on the same day as Major Nelson, you would see that they are on message. They are about disseminating information slowly and in a controlled manner.

The Ars Technica interview with Albert talking about how Sony is being let off the hook because they don't show their hardware in the box was very recent. I imagine his recent aggressive posts are part of the messaging plan in the coming weeks.

How's any of this any different than sony execs going on record and claiming gamers would notice right away that Ps4 is the superior console and the games at launch would already prove that? What proof did them gave other than trust me?

 

[The Flash]

It would be awesome if we could talk to Albert and the rest of the Xbox team in person or at least through Skype. So much gets lost when the only thing you have to go on is a few bits of text.

 

[timlot]

Pretty ridiculous he is saying it's the consumers fault for not looking for the Kinect videos and such. It's Microsoft's job to sell us their product. They need to push it and show us why we need Kinect. And real world examples, not tech demos.

I've been saying the same thing myself. This commercial is a good start, but they need more of an extended walk through video showing more of the dash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmD0vPOd5Rk

 

[B.O.O.M]

There's nothing wrong with calling him out. It's just that many people are acting like it means that we can't listen to a word he says, and that nobody else does this.

People are acting like JABEEs post is some great revelation. Can we just do what Senjutosage suggested?



Wait, what?

Well yes? When listening to responses by PR or individuals affiliated with a company the smart thing to do would be to not take anything at face value. His earlier answers reek of damage control. I don't blame him as that is his job. But I also see no issue with people calling him out. At least I haven't seen anyone that crossed the line with something like name calling etc.

Jabee's post is excellent. Even if you ignore the bit about MN and Penello it's a very sensible post

Lastly yes I'm not sure what confusing. I'm saying this is the norm. Penello is not a special case as gaf users tend to call out such people on their comments all the time on this forum. Which is part of the reason why this is a great place for discussion. Hope that makes it clearer what my last comment was about

Of course it had an effect on my gaming, I'm very opposed online DRM bullshit.

But Yield issues, hardware performance etc doesn't? Even if it doesn't for you I'm sure it does for others so you should be able to understand their concerns

 

[alr1ght]

How's any of this any different than sony execs going on record and claiming gamers would notice right away that Ps4 is the superior console and the games at launch would already prove that? What proof did them gave other than trust me?

Are they posting here on gaf claiming that they are "one of us"?

 

[LTWheels]

Why is this topic 30 odd pages long, when there is very little to discuss?

 

[avaya]

How's any of this any different than sony execs going on record and claiming gamers would notice right away that Ps4 is the superior console and the games at launch would already prove that? What proof did them gave other than trust me?

Maybe you should show us where they say this? Tretton says see for yourself.

 

[alr1ght]

Why is this topic 30 odd pages long, when there is very little to discuss?

arguing is fun

 

[Uno Venova]

How's any of this any different than sony execs going on record and claiming gamers would notice right away that Ps4 is the superior console and the games at launch would already prove that? What proof did them gave other than trust me?

Who from Sony wrote posts to us on this forum like that? People are really falling off the rails in this thread.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Why is this topic 30 odd pages long, when there is very little to discuss?

it's console war season, every thread is gonna be 20+ pages

 

[perineumlick]

There's nothing wrong with calling him out. It's just that many people are acting like it means that we can't listen to a word he says, and that nobody else does this.

People are acting like JABEEs post is some great revelation. Can we just do what Senjutosage suggested?



Wait, what?

Yes, let's just excuse everything, since everyone is evil and they all are liars.

I'm sure Penello is a fine fellow, and I applaud him for posting here and keeping people informed.

I also, like JABEE stated, understand why he is here, and I find no fault in that. I'm smart enough to read between the lines.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Why is this topic 30 odd pages long, when there is very little to discuss?

Begun, this console war has

 

[Row]

How's any of this any different than sony execs going on record and claiming gamers would notice right away that Ps4 is the superior console and the games at launch would already prove that? What proof did them gave other than trust me?

Significantly more powerful hardware is pretty good proof

 

[benny_a]

How's any of this any different than sony execs going on record and claiming gamers would notice right away that Ps4 is the superior console and the games at launch would already prove that? What proof did them gave other than trust me?

Where did they insinuate that you should trust them?

I remember Tretton saying that you should check out the multi-platform games yourself.

 

[Chobel]

Why is this topic 30 odd pages long, when there is very little to discuss?

Well, Albert Penello did comment in here and he added some topics to discuss.

 

[fi3rypho3nix]

Why is this topic 30 odd pages long, when there is very little to discuss?

Because this place is full of arm chair video game icons and dicks?

 

[IN&OUT]

Hate to break it to you, but from past experience, I can attest to the falsity of this statement. It would not have ended long ago, because so many on GAF (not all, obviously) like to start comparing.

In fact, I don't believe he did initially. People dragged him into it.

If he still hadn't, then people would have "called him out" for ignoring the competition. "The Hubris!"

I have to disagree with you here, Albert always post in GAF, his posts are always met with respect to his position and to himself. it's just this time he was little aggressive and bragging, Gaf reacted accordingly.

 

[Meccanical]

 

[Pain]

How's any of this any different than sony execs going on record and claiming gamers would notice right away that Ps4 is the superior console and the games at launch would already prove that? What proof did them gave other than trust me?

They didn't say that on Gaf. As for heir proof they release the tech specs long ago.

 

[Caronte]

When he was just supplying info and clarifying things about their system I guess that was fine. But clearly going fanboy mode doesn't sit well.

We've got community managers and devs that post here too, but they rarely or ever post inflammatory things like that.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Why is this topic 30 odd pages long, when there is very little to discuss?

Albert came through and crushed the buildings so people caught feelings.

 

[maabus1999]

I have to disagree with you here, Albert always post in GAF, his posts are always met with respect to his position and to himself. it's just this time he was little aggressive and bragging, Gaf reacted accordingly.

Please stop saying GAF. Same 50 or so posters posting over and over in this thread. Unless you think that is GAF?

 

[jockstrap74]

I'm not assuming anyone is dumb. Not at all. I can understand based on what has been disclosed, why people are arriving at that conclusion.

I'm stating that not everyone knows all the facts. There are still a lot of important details about the platforms that are still unknown. I have many, many questions about what Sony is doing technically.

The question I posed earlier, and the statements I'm making now, will come out when we see the actual shipping boxes.

The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great.

Its far to late for you to copy their tech, your in full production Major Nelson said so, but I suppose you can ask Mr Cerny, perhaps he can explain the small box and the cooling too

 

[nib95]

Except when Albert comes here, he is doing his job.

He is trying to influence how people view Xbox One. He is talking a lot of shit without any kind of proof.

He's trying to curb the idea that PS4 is more powerful. He wants to disprove that notion, but has no proof to back it up other than, trust me.

Major Nelson, Albert and the unnamed Microsoft Dev started posting more frequently on here and on other places to change the tone of conversations about Microsoft. Instant access to PR control techniques.

If you look at things that Major Nelson says like "we passed cert long ago" like Albert posted on the same day as Major Nelson, you would see that they are on message. They are about disseminating information slowly and in a controlled manner.

The Ars Technica interview with Albert talking about how Sony is being let off the hook because they don't show their hardware in the box was very recent. I imagine his recent aggressive posts are part of the messaging plan in the coming weeks.

On point.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Please stop saying GAF. Same 50 or so posters posting over and over in this thread. Unless you think that is GAF?

Let us know when Yoshida, Cerny, House, or Shahid say that. They would probably get grilled enough but the main thing we've heard and read is that PS4 is more powerful. Then you have deflections like Albert's statement. It isn't all bad but the rest does read like PR.

 

[Melchiah]

We know. That's what makes what Sessler keeps saying so ridiculous. When you constantly get something so simple wrong so many times I can't blame anyone for thinking he's a shill. His constant defense of them during all their awful pre-reversal policies didn't win him any favors either.

I'm really not familiar with the guy's work, past or present, but reading that comment made me interested in how he conducted the interviews and articles when the PS3 & 360 were about to launch. Did he also defend Sony in an equal measure, when they were the underdog? If not, I think that puts his objectivity in question.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Yes, it is definitely dangerous precedent to continue allowing people to lob personal attacks at someone just because they work for a company you don't like

Yeah, Gaming side has been hard to spend time in lately

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I love you MS ...

 

[perineumlick]

Its far to late for you to copy their tech, your in full production Major Nelson said so, but I suppose you can ask Mr Cerny, perhaps he can explain the small box and the cooling too

Now, see, this is a dickish post. Absolutely no need, and adds nothing whatsoever to the discussion.

 

[LukasTaves]

Are they posting here on gaf claiming that they are "one of us"?

Oh, so the trouble is coming here on gaf, then? Fair enough, then...

 

[nib95]

How's any of this any different than sony execs going on record and claiming gamers would notice right away that Ps4 is the superior console and the games at launch would already prove that? What proof did them gave other than trust me?

Those Sony execs do it through the proper channels. As strictly PR statements on Sony or other gaming websites, at most on Twitter. Microsoft's new tactic has been to try and do it via forums and threads with them posting as one of us. On Reddit, NeoGAF etc. It's not just answering questions etc as I originally assumed it would be, it's straight PR nonsense much of the time and often reactionary damage control. Not hard to read between the lines.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

He brought it to himself when he neglected the power difference. Logical response from gaf would be: How would the difference wont matter despite having those numbers laid in front of us. it's either MS thinks we are idiots or they are flat out lying. if Albert cannot answer those specific questions then why comment on it in the first place? problem is he dissed Sony and started bragging about the great minds in MS ! ( we are MS, we created DirectX, We are the best in the world...etc)

This is what caused all this, if he tried to simply clarify that X1 is a capable machine without bringing PS4 to the picture, this thread would have ended long ago.

We wouldn't want that now, would we?

On a serious note, we all know what the numbers are. You engage him on numbers that aren't in his favor, then don't be surprised when you get an obvious response. He'll do what anyone in his position would. He's going to talk about the amazing work that he sees being done on the system, or mention stuff like how smart the people are working on the project, and how much confidence this gives him on what the system will be capable of. It's not like he's trying to get you to ignore the difference in the numbers, because he can't accomplish that. He's trying to communicate that there's a bit more to it than just that, to look at the games so far, and there are details that we don't know about yet, which could be PR to get our hopes up and raise confidence about the Xbox One, but it isn't impossible that we don't know as much as we think we do about the system. We've seen some awesome things on the PS4, but we also have to be honest that we've seen some awesome stuff on the Xbox One also. I think it's cool that he has stuck with it as much as he has, and is continuing to engage with us, because, trust me, there's times when I think "Oh fuck, we've definitely seen the last of him now," but he continues to participate anyway.

I welcome that.

 

[benny_a]

^ I understand that SenjutsuSage, but talking about magic fairy dust without elaborating how the weaker machine could outperform the stronger machine is straight up bullshit and should be treated as such. That doesn't mean he should be insulted or anything, but it's still something he shouldn't even attempt in the first place. I feel insulted when that is a talking point.

Oh, so the trouble is coming here on gaf, then? Fair enough, then...

Could you address my post?

Where did they insinuate that you should trust them?

I remember Tretton saying that you should check out the multi-platform games yourself.

Just drop a link to the article where they are quoted as saying this.

 

[NotSaladin]

Pretty ridiculous he is saying it's the consumers fault for not looking for the Kinect videos and such. It's Microsoft's job to sell us their product. They need to push it and show us why we need Kinect. And real world examples, not tech demos.

This ^. I couldn't help but think the same when I was listening to this interview. He made some valid point during it and I felt as if their attitude was far more sympathetic then previously but statements such as that, are just downright ridiculous. There was also still a great deal that was talked around in order to avoid the main question.

I felt Sessler really asked some good questions and although they were not 100% informed he was still trying to tackle some of the harder ones. There was still some of that 'PR speech' coming through in the responses but I would expect no less from an interview with someone from any company.

 

[J_Lee]

Penello should be a Xbox division spokesman, I think Nelson, Phil Spencer, and even Matrick before his idiotic comment of "no internet get a 360" remind me of a bunch of Weasels that try their best to be the cool guy and their really not.

 

[LukasTaves]

Who from Sony wrote posts to us on this forum like that? People are really falling off the rails in this thread.

Were did I say sony came on this forum? I was merely talking about the behavior, I didn't catch up that the gripe was coming here to post...

Where did they insinuate that you should trust them?

I remember Tretton saying that you should check out the multi-platform games yourself.

If you are being this literal, that's exactly what Albert said too. In fact he says people are already not seeing any difference...

 

[krioto]

It's amusing that albert's posts are taken as anything other than microsoft PR - of course it is, and he should be re-tagged appropriately.

 

[Nocturno999]

I don't see any bias in this interview at all. Despite having my doubts about the interviewer before.
Sessler makes very good questions, even ballsy and the answers seem very genuine.

 

[NullPointer]

Penello should be a Xbox division spokesman, I think Nelson, Phil Spencer, and even Matrick before his idiotic comment of "no internet get a 360" remind me of a bunch of Weasels that try their best to be the cool guy and their really not.

I'd love for the engineers at all of these companies to do more of the talking.

 

[benny_a]

If you are being this literal, that's exactly what Albert said too. In fact he says people are already not seeing any difference...

And what was my response to that?

We have not seen the same games running on PS4 and Xbox One. He might have, but the public and the press has not.

This is what Tretton said:

I hate talking the talk without walking the walk, (gesturing at Keighley) talk to the third-party development community. And I encourage people to look at the games side-by-side from the third-party publishers and tell me which game looks more impressive to you on which platform. And I'm just telling you what I'm hearing from the publishers that are making the games, but I'd ultimately like to let the consumer be the judge instead of making boastful statements.

Albert says: People have not noticed any difference. Well, we have lots of people on GAF that would argue otherwise.
Tretton says: Ask the development community: We've had reports that developer says is the stronger machine and that there will be differences in how the games looks. No person could compare the games side-by-side yet.