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(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)

MilkyJoe

Member
Oef, this must be difficult to hear for all those "experts" here on NeoGAF :messenger_savoring:

I'm really baffled by this:
"But for the Series X, because the rest of the elements are slower, it will not probably reach its 12 Teraflops most of the time, and only reach 12 Teraflops in highly ideal conditions. "

Holy crap!

So in practise the PS5 is faster than the XBox Series X!

Does it really say that? 😂. Jesus wept, this is so embarrassing
 

Matt_Fox

Member
(*) Is PS5 more powerful or the XSX? Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek answers

OP, I just read the interview and I still don't know the answer! The interviewee says that the PS5 is the best console for working and coding.

The thread title claims to answer which is more powerful - gipped!
 

FireFly

Member
That is RDNA1, PS5 and XSX are on RDNA2. Stop comparing Apple with orange. DF is .........
I am not saying we know how RDNA2 scales. I am saying that it is at least possible to scale performance by increasing compute units, and that historically this is what GPU manufacturers have done.
 

Leyasu

Banned
(*) Is PS5 more powerful or the XSX? Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek answers

OP, I just read the interview and I still don't know the answer! The interviewee says that the PS5 is the best console for working and coding.

The thread title claims to answer which is more powerful - gipped!
This is blatant click bait.
The information provided is just the ease of use compared to the other one
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
He actually work with CryEngine.
Last year the CryTek junior team which he is part made a game in a week for the Global Game Jam.

As he removed the title Junior he probably received a promotion from last year to now days.

Well the CryEngine game and last year interview:
That must make him immediately an expert
 

pawel86ck

Banned
Interesting, but if less can be better so why GPU like 2080ti is faster than 2080 even despite much slower clock? Not even 2100 MHz RTX 2080 can match stock 2080ti, but for some reason when it comes to consoles people think less will be better.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
crysis 4 ps5 exclusive confirmed.

is he saying that 12tf of power in sex is some peak optimal astral conjuction with planet's alignment type of scenario? sound kinda bullshittery...
 
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BluRayHiDef

Banned
If you read this dimwit’s interview, it’s clear he just has some hangup with Windows and DirectX.

And his gushing about Sony’s APIs and software is a real hoot, too. Like when Naughty Dog basically had to teach people how to use SPEs on the atrocious mega-flop Cell processor.
Wow, you're so personally offended that you're referring to him as a "dimwit." His words must have really struck a nerve.
 

geordiemp

Member
Interesting, but if less can be better so why GPU like 2080ti is faster than 2080 even despite much slower clock? Not even 2100 MHz RTX 2080 can match stock 2080ti, but for some reason when it comes to consoles people think less will be better.

Also why Nvidia give better performance for same Tittyflops as GCN ?

You cannot compare different arcitectures, we are on RDNA2 now, so nobody knows how performant RDNA2 is on latest node at TSMC. All we know is below, and NVIDIA 2080 is using older tech than RDNA2..

Lets see what 3080 is doing first...I am sure 3080 will have more shaders, and will be much faster and higer clocked as well.


XkIelhR.png
 
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geordiemp

Member
Crytek? They still around? Guy was probably interviewed from a garbage dumpster outside their repossessed offices and paid with a chicken sandwich to sweet talk Sony.

Looking forward to future interviews though, eventually we'll get to the point where the new Xbox is a worse console than an Atari Lynx and is a gateway for paedophiles into children's bedrooms.

Touched a nerve lol. Some nice ad hominem in your post...

 

Psykodad

Banned
I'm starting to think that Xbox fans are getting butthurt because PS5 still gets more attention despite being less powerful and continues to dominate polls asking about next-gen interest.

Not to mention that every developer talking positive about PS5 is getting trashed and accused of shilling.
 
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Chankoras

Member
Yeah, less work for devs. In no way should be interpreted as is more powerful.
I disagree with the title, however what I understood from the interview is that gpu power does not equal system performance, other variables are valuable too.
Will be interesting to find out.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
Also why Nvidia give better performance for same Tittyflops as GCN ?

You cannot compare different arcitectures, we are on RDNA2 now, so nobody knows how performant RDNA2 is on latest node at TSMC. All we know is below, and NVIDIA 2080 is using older tech than RDNA2..

Lets see what 3080 is doing first...I am sure 3080 will have more shaders, and will be much faster and higer clocked as well.


XkIelhR.png
Both 2080 and 2080ti have the same turing architecture. All I wanted to say is larger chip with slower clocks is still faster than smaller with much higher clocks. I want both consoles to be close, but this argument (slower clocks can outweight bigger GPU on the same architecture) cant be proven with PC GPUs comparisons, therefore I cant believe it.
 
It is eerie how similar this phase is with the insiders phase. We were told to not question insiders, they know better, we should trust them e.t.c. Now every no name «developer» can say whatever and people are treating them like they are John Carmack or something. The guy even says he has had no experience with either console (nevermind some of the hilarious stuff in this fluff piece). We must leave common sense behind, just like we should do with the insider bullshit, and believe every piece of crap that some people are desperately trying to find out on the internet.
 

geordiemp

Member
It is eerie how similar this phase is with the insiders phase. We were told to not question insiders, they know better, we should trust them e.t.c. Now every no name «developer» can say whatever and people are treating them like they are John Carmack or something. The guy even says he has had no experience with either console (nevermind some of the hilarious stuff in this fluff piece). We must leave common sense behind, just like we should do with the insider bullshit, and believe every piece of crap that some people are desperately trying to find out on the internet.

Try reading the article, he says he cannot comment on his current project....he also does not say if he is working on Ps5 or XSX, he does not say....

Read into it what you want, you mind is made up before reading it appears. He says easier to develop for, that is all, not Ps5 more powerful in benchmarks if that is any consolation, but thinks it will punch higher than smple numbers suggest - does that phrase sound familiar ?

.And Cryengine existance says he will have access to SOME information, more than Jez and Bez and Timdog.

Nope, the special bunch is the Sony mob that rules both of these forums and are trying to either expel everyone, like dictator, that doesn’t agree with their bullshit, out of these forums, or drown everyone else under their bullshit rhetoric. They were humiliated once with their worshiping of people like that kleegamefan guy and osirisblack and they never learn instead doubling down on the efforts to do sony's marketing for free.


 
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Psykodad

Banned
Xbox discord is definitely trying to downplay this. C c0de is already in the thread at desetera having meltdowns. Doing the promised work to stop any favorable positive PS5 news


Discord

PlbGox6.jpg


Surprised this person is even brave enough to show up in threads after all of them have been outed as troll fanboys.
They really are a special bunch.
Maybe boredom due to the corona situation is pushing them over the edge.
 
Try reading the article, he says he cannot comment on his current project....he also does not say if he is working on Ps5 or XSX, he does not say....

Read into it what you want, you mind is made up before reading it appears. He says easier to develop for, that is all, not Ps5 more powerful in benchmarks if that is any consolation.

And Cryengine existance says he will have access to SOME information, more than Jez and Bez and Timdog.
My mind is made up because things are crystal clear when using common sense, just like like my mind was made up months before the ps5 unveiling about which console would have the bigger numbers (unlike what insiders were preaching) because things were crystal clear then too, when using common sense. The things this guy says, if he says them because the translation is all over the place, make literally zero sense.
Allow me to doubt that the biggest software company in the world that had a set goal with its new console didn’t design an extremely easy, to develop for, console
 
They really are a special bunch.
Maybe boredom due to the corona situation is pushing them over the edge.
Nope, the special bunch is the Sony mob that rules both of these forums and are trying to either expel everyone, like dictator, that doesn’t agree with their bullshit, out of these forums, or drown everyone else under their bullshit rhetoric. They were humiliated once with their worshiping of people like that kleegamefan guy and osirisblack and they never learn instead doubling down on the efforts to do sony's marketing for free.
 
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geordiemp

Member
My mind is made up because things are crystal clear when using common sense, just like like my mind was made up months before the ps5 unveiling about which console would have the bigger numbers (unlike what insiders were preaching) because things were crystal clear then too, when using common sense. The things this guy says, if he says them because the translation is all over the place, make literally zero sense.
Allow me to doubt that the biggest software company in the world that had a set goal with its new console didn’t design an extremely easy, to develop for, console

He is not an insider, he is a Crytek engineer who is also on Linkedin. Makes no sense to you because you just want a simple number, 10...12......mu terrafloppies...lol

He is not saying Ps5 will perform better than XSX go read the article FFS and less with the ad hominem.

Nothing is crystal clear, we never had a RDNA2 GPU at 2.2 GHz, we have never had RDNA2 until now, its all unknown unless your a developer who has a taste...
 
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He is not an insider, he is a Crytek engineer who is also on Linkedin. Makes no sense to you because you just want a simple number, 10...12......mu terrafloppies...lol

He is not saying Ps5 will perform better than XSX go read the article FFS and less with the ad hominem.
Actually there are many «simple» numbers that dictate computing power and then there’s bullshit and outlandish theories trying to conflict with these numbers just because. Sorry I don’t care what some no name engineer,who is foaming at the mouth over everything Sony-related in his social media and whose words we get through a translation from another guy who starts of with «be afraid xbots», thinks.
 

geordiemp

Member
Actually there are many «simple» numbers that dictate computing power and then there’s bullshit and outlandish theories trying to conflict with these numbers just because. Sorry I don’t care what some no name engineer,who is foaming at the mouth over everything Sony-related in his social media and whose words we get through a translation from another guy who starts of with «be afraid xbots», thinks.

Its not so fun when the shoe is on the other foot is it ?



I know, right. Should we believe devs that has a beef with Microsoft or has their tongue up in Sonys behind?

Crytek is the ONLY dev that has quoted up until now - unless you count a dev who has not been making games for 15 years and is mates with Timdog a valid input ?

This is the only dev who has made a public comment - can you name any others ? No, I thought not.

Both consoles will be fine and similar, chill, they have gone about their optimisation in different ways. Its interesting. Dont be so sure who the clear cut winner is yet, I have an open mind.
 
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Shmunter

Member
You are omitting the fact PS5 shaders are 22% faster and perform RT intersections 22% faster. Why wouldn't they?
I want to understand this also. I want to know how cu’s can be detached from clock speeds when it comes to RT. On the surface it sounds like wishful thinking, but I don’t proclaim to understand if there is more to it than meets the eye.
 

Kenpachii

Member
A lot of it doesn't make much sense. Either the translation is shit or the guy is just bullshiting.

Some things that make absolute nonsense here's his logic.

- U can't look at numbers and see if that results in bigger outputs because there is more limitations going on. True. But those boxes are practical identical so yea u can actaully.
- PS3 had the bigger number but it didn't result in better performance in games like gta. So numbers don't mean much as PS3 had the bigger number and it didn't help them.
2 seconds later, PS3 had the best looking games after all and it did help them???
- PS5 has its own operating system, but microsoft uses its own CUSTOMIZED VERSION of windows. The two are very different
- What Sony has done is much more logical because it decides whether the GPU frequency is higher or the CPU's frequency at certain times, depending on the processing load. For example, on a loading page, only the CPU is needed and the GPU is not used. Or in a close-up scene of the character's face, GPU gets involved and CPU plays a very small role. On the other hand, it's good that the Series X has good cooling and guarantees to keep the frequency constant and it doesn't have throttling, but the practical freedom that Sony has given is really a big deal.
- But if all the parts in the Xbox Series X can work optimally and the GPU works in its own peak, which is not possible in practice, we can achieve 12 TFlops. ( 2 seconds later ) 12 Tflops can be achieved.

This gif the interview.

giphy.gif
 
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geordiemp

Member
I want to understand this also. I want to know how cu’s can be detached from clock speeds when it comes to RT. On the surface it sounds like wishful thinking, but I don’t proclaim to understand if there is more to it than meets the eye.

Nvidia also has RT and Tensor cores and we dont know what AMD have done with RDNA2 yet to compare, other than RDNA2 has Ray tracing....
 

benjohn

Member
It is eerie how similar this phase is with the insiders phase. We were told to not question insiders, they know better, we should trust them e.t.c. Now every no name «developer» can say whatever and people are treating them like they are John Carmack or something. The guy even says he has had no experience with either console (nevermind some of the hilarious stuff in this fluff piece). We must leave common sense behind, just like we should do with the insider bullshit, and believe every piece of crap that some people are desperately trying to find out on the internet.
He never ever says he doesn't have experience with the hardware. He mentions that he doesn't want to talk about the project he's working on, so he only echoes other developers.
 
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T-Cake

Member
What a load of bollocks. He doesn't even mention how the Xbox One X smacks the PS4 Pro's booty even though the difference is 1.8 TFlops, which is about the same next-gen. Microsoft have already said that DX12 Ultimate includes new features for closer coding to the metal and not to mention other things like VRS.
 
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Ashoca

Banned
Also why Nvidia give better performance for same Tittyflops as GCN ?

You cannot compare different arcitectures, we are on RDNA2 now, so nobody knows how performant RDNA2 is on latest node at TSMC. All we know is below, and NVIDIA 2080 is using older tech than RDNA2..

Lets see what 3080 is doing first...I am sure 3080 will have more shaders, and will be much faster and higer clocked as well.


XkIelhR.png

this is based on AMD internal testing in ideal lab conditions. Not true if its the same for true real world examples.

AMD-NextHorizonE3-DavidWang-022_5F1582FC41144A229176C7F7047FFAB2.jpg



they used the Division 2 @ 25x14 Ultra setting and even admit that performance may vary. Would take it with a huge grain of salt.
 
He never ever says he doesn't have experience with the hardware. He mentions that he doesn't want to talk about the project he's working on, so he only echoes other developers.
That makes literally zero sense. Whatever, after the insiders phase we have entered crazy land again. This is my last post about any technical stuff, I will just wait for the DF comparisons.
 
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benjohn

Member
A lot of it doesn't make much sense. Either the translation is shit or the guy is just bullshiting.

Some things that make absolute nonsense here's his logic.

- U can't look at numbers and see if that results in bigger outputs because there is more limitations going on. True. But those boxes are practical identical so yea u can actaully.
- PS3 had the bigger number but it didn't result in better performance in games like gta. So numbers don't mean much as PS3 had the bigger number and it didn't help them.
2 seconds later, PS3 had the best looking games after all and it did help them???
- PS5 has its own operating system, but microsoft uses its own CUSTOMIZED VERSION of windows. The two are very different
- What Sony has done is much more logical because it decides whether the GPU frequency is higher or the CPU's frequency at certain times, depending on the processing load. For example, on a loading page, only the CPU is needed and the GPU is not used. Or in a close-up scene of the character's face, GPU gets involved and CPU plays a very small role. On the other hand, it's good that the Series X has good cooling and guarantees to keep the frequency constant and it doesn't have throttling, but the practical freedom that Sony has given is really a big deal.
- But if all the parts in the Xbox Series X can work optimally and the GPU works in its own peak, which is not possible in practice, we can achieve 12 TFlops. ( 2 seconds later ) 12 Tflops can be achieved.

This gif the interview.

giphy.gif


- All this article tries to say that instead of brute forcing Sony has striven to find ways to go around the bottlenecks
If you read the article more carefully (which admittedly is not ideally translated) he mentions that achieving 12 Tflops is not always possible unless under the the ideal circumstances that almost never occur
- He says that achieving 10.28 Tflops in PS5 is practically more doable.
 
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Shmunter

Member
Nvidia also has RT and Tensor cores and we dont know what AMD have done with RDNA2 yet to compare, other than RDNA2 has Ray tracing....
What I mean is I see repeated throughout the forum that CU count is the sole indicator of RT performance, aka 52 Cu vs 36 being 44% faster in RT operations. Why is this being brought up consistently. This would mean 0 clock speed in effect for RT, I can’t see sense in that, I’m not crazy right?
 

benjohn

Member
What I mean is I see repeated throughout the forum that CU count is the sole indicator of RT performance, aka 52 Cu vs 36 being 44% faster in RT operations. Why is this being brought up consistently. This would mean 0 clock speed in effect for RT, I can’t see sense in that, I’m not crazy right?
I'm not an expert, but I think CUs' frequency also play a role.
 
Do we still have people holding out hope that PS5 is somehow more powerful despite inferior hardware? What was translated (badly, in some spots) is not what was said in the thread title. I’m glad he thinks the PS5 will be easier to develop for, both consoles should be good, but he confirms XSX is more powerful.
 

Shmunter

Member
I'm not an expert, but I think CUs' frequency also play a role.
That makes sense right? So RT should scale with everything else, not related to CU count. E.g half the Cu’s at twice the speed should equal double cu’s at half speed when it comes to RT. Efficiency not withstanding.
 
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Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
As a programmer, I would say that the PlayStation 5 is much better, and I don't think you can find a programmer who chooses XBX over PS5. For the Xbox, they have to put DirectX and Windows on the console, which is many years old, but for each new console that Sony builds, it also rebuilds the software and APIs in any way it wants. It is in their interest and in our interest. Because there is only one way to do everything, and theirs is the best way possible.
This sounds like the bullshit Corrinne Yu would say.
A good example of this is the Xbox Series X hardware. Microsoft two seprate pools of Ram. The same mistake that they made over Xbox one. One pool of RAM has high bandwidth and the other pool of RAM has lower bandwidth. As a result, coding for the console is sometimes problematic. Because the total number of things we have to put in the faster pool RAM is so much that it will be annoying again, and add insult to injury the 4k output needs even more bandwidth. So there will be some factors which bottleneck XSX’s GPU.
There goes whatever credibility this guy had.
 
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