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[RetroMG]

VOTE: Ourobolus

Sorry Ouro, but I think there's something fishy going on here.

 

[squidyj]

Here's the thing, if we double miss today by 'evicting' kitty and ouro then tomorrow we know that Haly's got some splaining to do so even at 6-4, and I'm pretty sure I'm the first one who brought up those numbers (when talking about why it might be poor to eliminate the roomies on such a weak basis), we get a guaranteed lynch on the next day to take us to
5-3 or potentially 6-3 if I'm right about what I said earlier. I don't think that will happen if we lynch ouro, if we lynch ouro i'm convinced we'll get a mafia and if kingkitty isn't mafia then we can get Haly the next day.

 

[franconp]

I'm ready to evict him now without that added convincing so I absolutely disagree that it would be difficult to evict him if that's his role. I believe that's the name of his role and I want him gone.

So you are ok with evicting him even when it could mean our lost? I found that weird.

 

[squidyj]

So you are ok with evicting him even when it could mean our lost? I found that weird.

I am convinced that it won't mean our loss. I simply don't believe that will happen.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

...here's a thought. Say Ouro's not bullshitting us, as unlikely as it seems.

Why doesn't the person in second (assuming they're town) vote for Ouro in the last ten minutes?

They'd be getting evicted anyway, so they could take the heat.

Right?

I mean it's the best way I can think of to mitigate a double mislynch.

 

[squidyj]

...here's a thought. Say Ouro's not bullshitting us, as unlikely as it seems.

Why doesn't the person in second (assuming they're town) vote for Ouro in the last ten minutes?

They'd be getting evicted anyway, so they could take the heat.

Right?

I mean it's the best way I can think of to mitigate a double mislynch.

i wonder if it might revert to the last living person to vote on him rather than doublestacking on kitty.

 

[kingkitty]

...here's a thought. Say Ouro's not bullshitting us, as unlikely as it seems.

Why doesn't the person in second (assuming they're town) vote for Ouro in the last ten minutes?

They'd be getting evicted anyway, so they could take the heat.

Right?

I mean it's the best way I can think of to mitigate a double mislynch.

I'm in second and I was one of the first to vote for Ouro.

 

[franconp]

I am convinced that it won't mean our loss. I simply don't believe that will happen.

So we just put all the game on the line based in what you think, when you are not giving any proof of what you claim.

I'm sorry, but I won't do that. It's stupid.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

i wonder if it might revert to the last living person to vote on him rather than doublestacking on kitty.

Fair, but it's worth a shot still if Ouro's definitely being voted out

I'm in second and I was one of the first to vote for Ouro.

If you unvote and then immediately vote again I'd imagine that would count as you being the last to vote for him

 

[squidyj]

So we just put all the game on the line based in what you think, when you are not giving any proof of what you claim.

I'm sorry, but I won't do that. It's stupid.

I'm not giving any proof, what proof are you expecting? a smoking gun? it's never gonna happen, this is mafia! I've given my arguments, given my reads, I've pointed out ouro's bizarre behaviour, if that's not enough then to hell with you.

 

[kingkitty]

Fair, but it's worth a shot still if Ouro's definitely being voted out



If you unvote and then immediately vote again I'd imagine that would count as you being the last to vote for him

If I do end up as second (hopefully not), I'll consider it.

 

[franconp]

I'm not giving any proof, what proof are you expecting? a smoking gun? it's never gonna happen, this is mafia! I've given my arguments, given my reads, I've pointed out ouro's bizarre behaviour, if that's not enough then to hell with you.

We can have proof of his role. I can do it. The same way I did with Hobohodo. I remind you that I'm an investigator.

I'm proposing not to evict him this phase so I investigate him and we know the truth. But you want to evict him even if he isn't lying. Even if I find out he is really a vengefull villager and it would mean our lost. I find out that very strange.

 

[squidyj]

We can have proof of his role. I can do it. The same way I did with Hobohodo. I remind you that I'm an investigator.

I'm proposing not to evict him this phase so I investigate him and we know the truth. But you want to evict him even if he isn't lying. Even if I find out he is really a vengefull villager and it would mean our lost. I find out that very strange.

just because he's 'vengeful villager' doesn't mean he's town. you gain us nothing of value and I already argued why this was a bad idea.

 

[kingkitty]

Maybe a missed a post, but Ourobolus needs to clear some things up:

If he ends up killing another villager. How does he do it?

-The last person who votes for him.

-The first person who votes for him.

-Random.

-He gets to choose.

How does it work?

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Once it is clear Ouro is gonna be out, he could just vote for himself at the last minute.

 

[RetroMG]

His post says that if he is Evicted by HHA, the HHA who does it is also evicted. If he is voted out, the last voter does it.

However, when I looked up the role on the Mafia Wiki, it claims that the players gets to choose.

Now, it could be that Kark has changed the rules, or Ouro could be wrong, or lying, or any number of things, but that's where we currently stand.

 

[RetroMG]

Correction: What I meant to say is that Ouro's post says that if he is voted out, the last person to vote for him is evicted.

 

[Ourobolus]

Once it is clear Ouro is gonna be out, he could just vote for himself at the last minute.

Huh. I didn't even think of that. Sure, I can do that. Assuming there isn't some weird hidden clause that says I can't, it makes sense.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Huh. I didn't even think of that. Sure, I can do that. Assuming there isn't some weird hidden clause that says I can't, it makes sense.

Thing is, if King doesnt have more then 3-4 votes at the time, he could switch his vote off you and vote for another person with 3-4 votes and save himself.

More ppl need to vote, discuss etc.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Looks to be the votes so far

Ourobolus (5)
squidyj
Haly
kingkitty
nin
Retro

Haly (1)
Darryl

kingkitty (3)
EzekelRAGE
Razmos
Ouro

 

[kingkitty]

Consider taking out the roomies for the next day phase. If franconp is mafia, then everyone he has cleared is still up in the air, especially timeaisis and robotninjahornets. If franconp was an investigator, then we can have 100 percent trust in those two.

We should then cross reference with the people who voted for Salvapot in Day 4.

If we evict the roomies, and franconp is not mafia:

People who voted for Salvapot on Day 4:
Haly (????)
franconp (evicted day 7)
ourobolus (might be evicted day 6)
hobodobo (evicted day 5)
robotninjahornets (confirmed villager)
ultron (evicted day 7)
kingkitty (might be evicted day 6)

If franconp investigated Haly for Night 6, and he says Haly is mafia, then yay. But franconp still needs to be evicted. If franconp says Haly isn't mafia, he still needs to be evicted.

If franconp is truly an investigator, and has confirmed Haly as a villager, then we have to look at the rest of the survivors who haven't been confirmed as a villager...which are

tomakasatnav
Darryl
nin1000
EzekelRAGE
retrogamer
squiddyj

I think evicting the roomies the next day phase can give some key answers, especially if franconp isn't lying about his role. And if he investigates Haly tonight and shares this info on Day 7 right before he gets evicted.

 

[Haly]

We will never forget.

I will vote for Roomies first thing next day!

 

[nin1000]

unvote: Ourobolus
You role claim convinced me of you not being a thread.

What are your thoughts on King?

I don't know really since he is the last survivor of the gossip chat my gut screams mafia but I don't know for the moment. I have to sleep over it. Since we have 2 votes today one will go for sure for kingkitty. Sorry mate

 

[squidyj]

if we get rid of kingkitty then i think the roomies and haly are who we should talk about for tomorrow, I'm not convinced that

If we're very lucky Fran's next investigation will give us back The Older Nephew or Tom Nook(AKA the godfather) and we'll be cooking with gas. barring that I think haly is first up there was some early stuff going on that I'd want to talk about there.

 

[franconp]

Consider taking out the roomies for the next day phase. If franconp is mafia, then everyone he has cleared is still up in the air, especially timeaisis and robotninjahornets. If franconp was an investigator, then we can have 100 percent trust in those two.

We should then cross reference with the people who voted for Salvapot in Day 4.

If we evict the roomies, and franconp is not mafia:

People who voted for Salvapot on Day 4:
Haly (????)
franconp (evicted day 7)
ourobolus (might be evicted day 6)
hobodobo (evicted day 5)
robotninjahornets (confirmed villager)
ultron (evicted day 7)
kingkitty (might be evicted day 6)

If franconp investigated Haly for Night 6, and he says Haly is mafia, then yay. But franconp still needs to be evicted. If franconp says Haly isn't mafia, he still needs to be evicted.

If franconp is truly an investigator, and has confirmed Haly as a villager, then we have to look at the rest of the survivors who haven't been confirmed as a villager...which are

tomakasatnav
Darryl
nin1000
EzekelRAGE
retrogamer
squiddyj

I think evicting the roomies the next day phase can give some key answers, especially if franconp isn't lying about his role. And if he investigates Haly tonight and shares this info on Day 7 right before he gets evicted.

If you want to confirm my role this phase you could simply evict RobotNinjaHornet. He isn't in any Gossip's chat so there was no way I could learn his role. If he is an Ordinary Villager I'm telling the truth. That way you don't lose an important role.

 

[squidyj]

I forgot about nin, he definitely is suspicious and I don't liek that unvote, for starters because the argument is weak.

 

[Ourobolus]

I know this goes without saying, but evicting me is a mistake. I don't have any real way to prove I am a townie; but I am.

 

[kingkitty]

if we get rid of kingkitty then i think the roomies and haly are who we should talk about for tomorrow, I'm not convinced that

If we're very lucky Fran's next investigation will give us back The Older Nephew or Tom Nook(AKA the godfather) and we'll be cooking with gas. barring that I think haly is first up there was some early stuff going on that I'd want to talk about there.

whatever fran's investigation says, you guys must burn his house down. The only person right now who can claim franconp to be an investigator, is franconp. It's important we make him homeless as soon as possible.

 

[franconp]

whatever fran's investigation says, you guys must burn his house down. The only person right now who can claim franconp to be an investigator, is franconp. It's important we make him homeless as soon as possible.

I have just posted a way to prove it without the risk of evicting me.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

whatever fran's investigation says, you guys must burn his house down. The only person right now who can claim franconp to be an investigator, is franconp. It's important we make him homeless as soon as possible.

We've already discussed that it's inevitable that roomies must go since one of them is most likely HHA. I don't see why it has to be next voting day though.

 

[kingkitty]

If you want to confirm my role this phase you could simply evict RobotNinjaHornet. He isn't in any Gossip's chat so there was no way I could learn his role. If he is an Ordinary Villager I'm telling the truth. That way you don't lose an important role.

We don't know what type of powers mafia has. Hell, robotninjahornets might very well be an ordinary villager. But that doesn't mean you're not mafia who gave correct information in order to look truth worthy.

So please, investigate Haly and tell the surviving members your results, before your eviction.

 

[franconp]

We don't know what type of powers mafia has. Hell, robotninjahornets might very well be an ordinary villager. But that doesn't mean you're not mafia who gave correct information in order to look truth worthy.

So please, investigate Haly and tell the surviving members your results, before your eviction.

First you question my role and when I give you a way to prove it you say it doesn't matter. Now you question my role and there's a way I can give prove of that more that I have already done.

I don't think it's a good idea evicting me, even less if we get an HHA this turn.

 

[kingkitty]

We've already discussed that it's inevitable that roomies must go since one of them is most likely HHA. I don't see why it has to be next voting day though.

Well you need to discuss it more. Because they're the elephant in the room. I'm not down for "lets just hold off". Lets take out the roomies and be done with it. I feel like it's just going to be a harder thing to consider doing as our numbers dwindle even further by Day 8, Day 9.

If we kill roomies here's what we might get:

1) Ultron is mafia. Which means we at least killed one mafia. AND we have several confirmed town roles by franconp.

2) Franconp is mafia, and we at least killed one mafia. BUT all those roles he "confirmed" might be bunk.

3) Neither are mafia, well holy shit we killed two townies. BUT we still have several confirmed town roles by franconp.

4) Both are mafia. Unlikely!

I think it's either 1 or 2. If you guys want to push evicting franconp to Day 8, while having him investigate 2 people (one of them Haly) over 2 nights, that's your choice. But nothing later than Day 8. Ideally Day 7.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

whatever fran's investigation says, you guys must burn his house down. The only person right now who can claim franconp to be an investigator, is franconp. It's important we make him homeless as soon as possible.

Hold the phone

You're forgetting Tom's power

There was activity last night, when I was supposedly investigated

So either I did get investigated last night, or me, Ouro or Retro have been lying and sent in a kill order, or we've been lying and performed an action last night (very doubtful, why would no-one have used their activity up until now?), or someone else performed some action on us last night (...I can't think of any other roles we have left that would cover this)

However, the only situation where it would be sensible for someone in this area to send out a kill order is when they're the only remaining HHA - given the wording in Hobo's role PM we have at least 2 left, almost definitely 3, and having at least half of the people in a light sleeper's range seems ridiculous. Someone might argue that fran is an HHA cop and was using his power to cover up the sending of the kill order, but then...why not just send out the kill order himself?

 

[kingkitty]

First you question my role and when I give you a way to prove it you say it doesn't matter. Now you question my role and there's a way I can give prove of that more that I have already done.

I don't think it's a good idea evicting me, even less if we get an HHA this turn.

It doesn't matter. It's the only way to be sure franconp. Whether it's on Day 7 or Day 8, be ready to pack your bags for Tacoville.

 

[squidyj]

If you want to confirm my role this phase you could simply evict RobotNinjaHornet. He isn't in any Gossip's chat so there was no way I could learn his role. If he is an Ordinary Villager I'm telling the truth. That way you don't lose an important role.

so you're worried about taking a risk with ouro but you think it's a good idea to evict someone who MUST be town according to your own statements in order to prove that you have the abilities you have when that isn't even what's in question. I wanted to believe you were good but I just can't anymore, not when you suggest stuff like this.

 

[Haly]

Maffs.

Remaining players (14):

Haly
Darryl
RobotNinjaHornets
Razmos
Tomakasatnav
Timeaisis
RetroGamer42
franconp & ultron87
squidyj
EzekelRAGE
nin1000

Ourobolus (on the chopping block)
Kingkitty (on the chopping block)

Day 6 - We evict 2 villagers, 8:4

Night 6: The HHA take out another villager, 7:4

Day 7 - We evict roomies, 6:3 (I think this is a conservative estimate, I personally believe there were only 4 HHA at the start of the game including the Traitor)

Night 7 - The HHA take out another villager, and the ratio is 5:3

Day 8 - We make a mistake and evict another villager, bringing the ratio down to 4:3

Night 8 - The HHA take out another villager, and the ratio is 3:3, HHA wins

If we're wrong on both counts today, we only have one chance left to get an HHA before we lose.

Assume: We take out an HHA today and Ouro is lying.

Day 6 - 9:3 (one HHA today, one villager)
Night 6 - 8:3
Day 7 - 7:2 (evict roomies)
Night 7 - 6:2
Day 8 - 5:2 (we make a mistake here)
Night 8 - 4:2
Day 9 - 3:2 (another mistake here)
Night 9 - 2:2, HHA wins

Conclusion: We get 2 shots at getting an HHA before we lose

Assume: Ouro isn't lying. There are no HHA among the two. This is the worst case scenario

Day 6 - 7:4
Night 6 - 6:4
Day 7 - 5:3 (evict roomies)
Night 7 - 4:3
Day 8 - 3:3 (we make a mistake here), HHA wins

Conclusion: We get one more shot at getting an HHA before we lose.

Assume: Ouro isn't lying. There is one HHA among the two.

Day 6 - 7:3
Night 6 - 6:3
Day 7 - 5:2 (evict roomies)
Night 7 - 4:2
Day 8 - 3:2 (we make a mistake here)
Night 8: 2:2, HHA wins

Conclusion: We get one more shot at getting an HHA before we lose.

So basically, if we don't get an HHA today, or if Ouro is telling the truth, we get one more shot at getting an HHA before we lose. We get one additional shot as the initial HHA count goes lower than 5. This is not meant to be an Ouro defense, as I will keep my vote on him and call his bluff, but these are the stakes so far and I think it's worth keeping in mind for all of us.

 

[kingkitty]

Someone might argue that fran is an HHA cop and was using his power to cover up the sending of the kill order, but then...why not just send out the kill order himself?

Beats me. But a good way to confirm what franconp has been saying is to burn his house down.

Day 7 (or Day 8) is the right time. If you wait till Day 8 to burn him, then I suppose you can have him investigate two people instead of one. If he's confirmed as an investigator, then that's a bonus for us. We won't have doubt towards anyone he has confirmed.

If he's mafia himself, then yay, we got some scum.

 

[franconp]

so you're worried about taking a risk with ouro but you think it's a good idea to evict someone who MUST be town according to your own statements in order to prove that you have the abilities you have when that isn't even what's in question. I wanted to believe you were good but I just can't anymore, not when you suggest stuff like this.

The discussion is between evicting an Ordinary Villager or evicting an Investigator. Which do you think is more important? I don't want them to evict RobotNinjaHornet but if they still want to prove my role that's the more beneficial way to do it.

I still didn't get an answer from Haly and Kingkitty why Kalor reported activity in the first day. One of them is lying. And now both of them want me out. Doesn't anyone else find this strange?

 

[Haly]

Woah now. I don't want you out. It's ultron who wants you out. I'm specifically discrediting ultron so that we don't lose our biggest asset at such a crucial time.

 

[kingkitty]

The discussion is between evicting an Ordinary Villager or evicting an Investigator. Which do you think is more important? I don't want them to evict RobotNinjaHornet but if they still want to prove my role that's the more beneficial way to do it.

I still didn't get an answer from Haly and Kingkitty why Kalor reported activity in the first day. One of them is lying. And now both of them want me out. Doesn't anyone else find this strange?

If I end up evicted you'll know I'm townie. And I want you to investigate Haly for tonight. So what's the point of the "isn't this suspicious" questioning?

 

[squidyj]

The discussion is between evicting an Ordinary Villager or evicting an Investigator. Which do you think is more important? I don't want them to evict RobotNinjaHornet but if they still want to prove my role that's the more beneficial way to do it.

I still didn't get an answer from Haly and Kingkitty why Kalor reported activity in the first day. One of them is lying. And now both of them want me out. Doesn't anyone else find this strange?

how does it prove anything about your alignment? you have been continually conflating alignment, role name, and abilities in a dangerous and duplicitous way.

 

[franconp]

We will never forget.

I will vote for Roomies first thing next day!

Woah now. I don't want you out. It's ultron who wants you out. I'm specifically discrediting ultron so that we don't lose our biggest asset at such a crucial time.

Well...

If I end up evicted you'll know I'm townie. And I want you to investigate Haly for tonight. So what's the point of the "isn't this suspicious" questioning?

It's suspicious that both you and Haly within a minute of difference decided that it would be a good idea to evict me after I point out that one of you are lying.

how does it prove anything about your alignment? you have been continually conflating alignment, role name, and abilities in a dangerous and duplicitous way.

There's no way to prove aligment. Not without a cop. I have been saying that since 3rd day as soon as I roleclaimed. I can't prove my aligment but if you see my investigations and my actions during the game you will notice that I didn't lie. Investigating Razmos maked sense when I did, when Mazre asked me to investigate his role I did and when I was asked to investigate Hobohodo I did it too.

 

[kingkitty]

It's suspicious that both you and Haly within a minute of difference decided that it would be a good idea to evict me after I point out that one of you are lying.

that might be suspicious, but luckily by Day 7 you should have a good idea of what's going on.

 

[squidyj]

Well...



It's suspicious that both you and Haly within a minute of difference decided that it would be a good idea to evict me after I point out that one of you are lying.



There's no way to prove aligment. Not without a cop. I have been saying that since 3rd day as soon as I roleclaimed. I can't prove my aligment but if you see my investigations and my actions during the game you will notice that I didn't lie. Investigating Razmos maked sense when I did, when Mazre asked me to investigate his role I did and when I was asked to investigate Hobohodo I did it too.

you need to be hunting for mafia with your checks, thats how you prove you're town. instead of checking who people ask you to check ,check to help town the most, if you give us tom nook or older nephew tomorrow, then you're town to me, if not you're incredibly suspicious on the basis of your most recent action.

 

[Haly]

Well...

He had a point. And this is talking about the next day.

The chances are extremely high that there is an HHA in the double house.

Confirming that you're Villager would confirm Timeaisis. That's one HHA eviction, the lost of the investigator, and 1 less player to choose from. If you confirm another villager on that day, great. Then we have 2 less players to look at.

Confirming that you're HHA would effectively implicate both Time and RNH, otherwise both of them would've slipped under our radar.

As I've stated above, we have only once chance remaining if we don't get an HHA today and there are 4 HHA left. Overlooking 2 players because we were convinced of your investigations would be extremely dangerous. Plus, by leaving the HHA in your house alive, we bring up their victory by half of a cycle.

Starting from the end of Day 7, using the worst case scenarios at the end of each day, and assuming Ouro is telling the truth and we didn't get any HHA today

5:3 (D7) -> 4:3 (N7) -> 3:3 (D8), HHA wins
5:4 (D7) -> 4:4 (N7), HHA wins

I mean, we're going to have to evict you sooner or later. I guess we can put it off another cycle but it's a big risk we're taking.

 

[franconp]

you need to be hunting for mafia with your checks, thats how you prove you're town. instead of checking who people ask you to check ,check to help town the most, if you give us tom nook or older nephew tomorrow, then you're town to me, if not you're incredibly suspicious on the basis of your most recent action.

Do you want that me to buy you a taco while I'm looking for HHA?

As I said before plenty of time I can't find HHA, I'm not a cop. I can learn what role someone have. You said it yourself half an hour ago.

I already found an HHA the previous phase, what have you done so far?

Right now after Haly and Kingkitty you are the most suspicious to me. You acuse everyone without proof, only in "what you believe".

 

[squidyj]

Do you want that me to buy you a taco while I'm looking for HHA?

As I said before plenty of time I can't find HHA, I'm not a cop. I can learn what role someone have. You said it yourself half an hour ago.

I already found an HHA the previous phase, what have you done so far?

Right now after Haly and Kingkitty you are the most suspicious to me. You acuse everyone without proof, only in "what you believe".

right and people have made cogent points about how that find might be suspect. the point is we have at least two roles that we KNOW are HHA roles, Tom Nook (or something that aludes or refers to tom nook) and the older nephew. those roles are 100% grade A HHA.

What have I done? push logic and reads and go in on ourobolus who I remain convinced is mafia, we can't all have information generating roles, so those of us who do have to use them to the best ability.

 

[squidyj]

Do you want that me to buy you a taco while I'm looking for HHA?

As I said before plenty of time I can't find HHA, I'm not a cop. I can learn what role someone have. You said it yourself half an hour ago.

I already found an HHA the previous phase, what have you done so far?

Right now after Haly and Kingkitty you are the most suspicious to me. You acuse everyone without proof, only in "what you believe".

Okay now i'm getting tired of this bullshit, your willful ignorance of my arguments evidenced in your willingness to boil everything i've said and done to "what I believe"
you're mafia scum and you're deflecting and evading right now which is fine, or you're being a very weal town and i'll be pissed at the end of this game.

Read the past 300 posts and tell me again everything is just "what i believe"
I'll wait.

 

[franconp]

Okay now i'm getting tired of this bullshit, your willful ignorance of my arguments evidenced in your willingness to boil everything i've said and done to "what I believe"
you're mafia scum and you're deflecting and evading right now which is fine, or you're being a very weal town and i'll be pissed at the end of this game.

Read the past 300 posts and tell me again everything is just "what i believe"
I'll wait.

Why not make it 400. First we have your brillant deduction:

I think we should take a step back from hobohodo, for a couple reasons. We don't want to end the day early when we could have more discussion. We also only have one uncontested explanation about what happened on n3 even though the n4 self-target is suspicious. What was the name of Franconp's role again?


So at the start of the day Haly and Ezekal said they thought ourobolus was amon the most mafia in their opinion and I voted on Ourobolus. It's generated quite a response from Darryl but I was honestly expecting to see more from Ouro about it, instead he moved directly onto praising mazre's deduction completely ignoring things.

So.... if we're right on Hobo we kill a mafia, if we're wrong we kill Doctor+.
I think the question is is there a person in the game that is nearly as scummy as hobohodo seems right now, someone where we would have the same confidence in voting him out. if we can find sucha person it might be wiser to vote them out instead and not take the risk we are taking with hobo even if we don't necessarily believe his claim right now, it's something that we can revisit the next day.

Iif we lynch someone who we think might have been trying to protect hobo (which i admit it looks like I am doing here) and they turn out to be mafia we go into the next day all but guaranteeing that hobo is mafia.

From the start of this day I've wanted to see ouro out and while I think its 80/20 in favor of hobo being mafia, i think it's 100/0 in favor of ouro being mafia, because of his hiding, his "me too" posting, his sheeping, and his general lack of response to things I think he should be responding to.

And Darryl opinion on this:

I swear I read this message

And just thought he threw in the towel and came out of the closet. That read to me like a goodbye message, like a final "fuck yall". Now he's apparently still arguing it out and hot shot has a fucking case for him.

Here you are calling Hobohodo dumb for his mistake (but you believed in him):

Hobohodo lied about what his role did if he hadn't been dumb and said he targeted himself n4 how would we have shown that it wasn't the case? I don't believe Ouro's role does what he says it does precisely because it would be so awful for town if it was true. It's exactly the sort of ability you'd claim when your only goal is to not get lynched.

Here are your reasons to evict Ourobolus:

tell me how you lead the vote. what logic and analysis did you provide that lead to these votes?

particularly hobo, because the way hobohodo went it was
1. oh shit what the fuck is "younger nephew" (credit franconp)
2. how did you get checked if you blocked yourself n4? (credit mazre)

and everything else was dogpiling, which in fact many people noted it was likely that mafia was voting against hobohodo. You voted against him before info came out but you didn't push or lead the vote you were just sort of like 'eh, yeah that guy"


Also, Launchpad called you out for not having anything on you, voting you, then canceling, because he, (maybe haly) and RNH all seemed to think you were a power role, holding back information. But then it turned out that Tom was the light sleeper, not you but nobody ever really went back to you.

So I'm going to outline why I think we absolutely need to vote Ouro out today in case somebody isn't up to date. The first argument is something that was noticed much earlier by Launchpad and RNH, they both found that ouro was basically a non-entity in the game. They read that as him having more information than he was letting on, basically being a power role.





So we start with an Ouro who isn't really doing much of anything and starting from when we get in the game I decide I want to pressure him. He responds like this



So particularly ezekal and myself begin pressuring him for his role and he is incredibly evasive and unwilling to give any sort of role information, which ultimately leads to this.



To which I reply as below and he acts like he never made his previous claims about what would happen if he revealed his role.



He also made this post which paradoxically divorces the towniness of franconp's checks from the towniness of franconp himself. If franconp is townie then he's not lying about his checks and therefore the people he checks as ordinary villager must be so, you can't believe one without the other and this marks a stunning failure in logic.



Finally he claims to be a power role that could get another townie killed during the day if we vote him out. Which taken together with the rest of his behaviour, cannot be seen as at all believable.

But Wait! There's More!


All throughout this process his defense has taken wildly different tones, when he first refused to claim his role he suggested I was something of a confused town who was just shooting in the dark, he transitioned that into accusing me of being mafia when he was further pressed and now he is being very accomodating "I don't expect you to believe me" Which is something that is particularly troubling when we consider the nature of the role he revealed at that point, if he's town and there's a 100% chance that voting him would get another town killed then this is the point I believe a townie would be MOST forceful in their defense, because if he was telling the truth we would be making a MASSIVE mistake to lynch him, instead he becomes conciliatory with those he earlier accused of being mafia, if you believe I'm mafia trying to railroad you why don't you appeal to the rest of town? why don't you do anything other than what you've done?

We have to evict Ourobolus, today. and if he's telling the truth then god help us all but I don't believe him for even a second.

Which I don't find strong enough to risk losing the game for them. When I told you that and gave you an alternative your answer was:

I am convinced that it won't mean our loss. I simply don't believe that will happen.

I'm ready to evict him now without that added convincing so I absolutely disagree that it would be difficult to evict him if that's his role. I believe that's the name of his role and I want him gone.

Lets suggest for a moment that he's town and you investigate him and verify his role name.

A. we're going to have to pick somebody else
we either pick two other people today or one and no evict, It looks like kingkitty and MAYBE nin to me? how do you feel about lynching them?

B. We're still going to need to ask ourselves whether we believe his claim tomorrow, and I can't see the desire to vote him decreasing because the only thing that would be surprising would be if vengeful villager wasn't his role name in which case it'd be even more obvious that he's mafia than it is now.

I don't think we gain anything by waiting for you to invest him.

We are risking losing the game so it would be for the best to be cautious with our actions, but that doesn't seems good to you.

And here we have when you accuse me of being HHA:

so you're worried about taking a risk with ouro but you think it's a good idea to evict someone who MUST be town according to your own statements in order to prove that you have the abilities you have when that isn't even what's in question. I wanted to believe you were good but I just can't anymore, not when you suggest stuff like this.

Here we have when Kingkitty doubted my role which made me give an alternative:

Consider taking out the roomies for the next day phase. If franconp is mafia, then everyone he has cleared is still up in the air, especially timeaisis and robotninjahornets. If franconp was an investigator, then we can have 100 percent trust in those two.

We should then cross reference with the people who voted for Salvapot in Day 4.

If we evict the roomies, and franconp is not mafia:

People who voted for Salvapot on Day 4:
Haly (????)
franconp (evicted day 7)
ourobolus (might be evicted day 6)
hobodobo (evicted day 5)
robotninjahornets (confirmed villager)
ultron (evicted day 7)
kingkitty (might be evicted day 6)

If franconp investigated Haly for Night 6, and he says Haly is mafia, then yay. But franconp still needs to be evicted. If franconp says Haly isn't mafia, he still needs to be evicted.

If franconp is truly an investigator, and has confirmed Haly as a villager, then we have to look at the rest of the survivors who haven't been confirmed as a villager...which are

tomakasatnav
Darryl
nin1000
EzekelRAGE
retrogamer
squiddyj

I think evicting the roomies the next day phase can give some key answers, especially if franconp isn't lying about his role. And if he investigates Haly tonight and shares this info on Day 7 right before he gets evicted.

Let's see your logic: Ourobolus is mafia because he didn't defend himself when he was accused and I'm mafia because I defended myself when I was accused. That makes sense.

I'm beginning to think Darryl is the most rational player here.