Already addressed but there are academics who probably have binders full of women to lend their "voice" to this issue; women who do not have the advantage of celebrity.
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Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn are speaking at the UN about online harassment
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Already addressed but there are academics who probably have binders full of women to lend their "voice" to this issue; women who do not have the advantage of celebrity.
What does this comment even mean?
Abinash117
Member
Funny that certain people at gamergate or in general criticizers of Anita or people who speak of issues of marginalized groups, aren't able to be this influential or get these opportunities .
Besides bitching and spewing whataboutisms ; they do a whole not of nothing. I guess they really don't care about their own issues as much as they think they do .
Besides bitching and spewing whataboutisms ; they do a whole not of nothing. I guess they really don't care about their own issues as much as they think they do .
Anton Sugar
Member
I see. If anything, the perspective of a marginalized group will lead to more nuanced discussion and decision-making. So that, if any legislation eventually comes out of this, it's not just accounting for broad harassment but also for specialty groups.
This, too
crimsonheadGCN
Banned
And both Zoe Quinn and Randi Harper have started organizations that specifically help out those who suffered from online harassment.
http://onlineabuseprevention.org/
http://www.crashoverridenetwork.com/
NoblesseOblige
Banned
At least offer some actual example rather than a pointless statement without any support.
Polioliolio
Member
Whether anyone agrees with them on the issues they talk about or not..
... If there's something they know better than most, it's online harassment, and I hope they can help solve the issue.
... If there's something they know better than most, it's online harassment, and I hope they can help solve the issue.
John Kowalski
Banned
Oh wow, congrats to them.
We have to start somewhere before we get rid of everything.
I am happy they made it this far. Maybe this issue will get the attention it needs now
Sapphire Dreams
Member
Good for both of them. Nothing justifies the harassment they got, and that's coming from a guy who disagrees a lot with Anita.
UncleSporky
Member
I can't imagine a more ironic comment in a thread like this.
silvermember
Banned
Academics who have NO real world experience with harassment. Academics are good when making policy. Those two are perfect are talking about how online harassment affects individuals. Academics can only paint a broad picture, they don't deal with individuals.
tl;dr
You are wrong.
partyphone
Banned
it's one thing to be well versed on a subject and quite another to present the information you have to a large group of people who don't have any special interest, or knowledge of any kind, about the topic. a lot of people speak at the UN on a wide variety of topics. it's a rare opportunity but not a magical one so a certain amount of showmanship is required.
Zoe and Anita regularly give talks on this subject to varied audineces and are a good choice for this.
but if the person I replied to is so sure there is someone better suited for the task it will be trivial to list them.
Pretty much my stance. Anita's videos were kind of a hit-and-miss for me: while I agree with the messages, some examples are taken out of contest or shoehorned. Nonetheless, she was a victim of vicious harassment, and no one deserves to be harassed for their ideas or simply for being a woman (or just different).
I wish them well, and hope that their conference will be fruitful.
The end to anonymity for starters. Anonymity on the public level is still fine but somehow limiting sockpuppet accounts and somehow making it easier to trace someone's online movements once investigations begin is a start. Holding twitter accountable if they refuse to cooperate (since they handwave a lot of harassment away) is another. Tightening their registration process and adding more means for controlling incoming or outgoing or visible messages is another.
How about not someone who decided to attack and then start a huge online harassment attack against the person who managed to land a probe on a meteorite all because of what he was wearing the day the landing occurred?
I think that would be a good place to start.
SuperBanana
Banned
Considering the UN appointed Saudi Arabia as the head country for a human rights panel I have to wonder if anyone there even gives a shit about harassment of women. Good on Anita and Zoe for speaking there at least.
petran79
Banned
Annita sees it more from a sociological view.
This really belongs more to psychology. There are many psychologist who specialise in that field and have written countless essays. I was even at a small conference were a psychologist was explaining to the parents about kids, the internet and online games.
I remember asking him that when we were kids we had the arcades and there werent any online games. He told me that for them it was much more exciting to play with people from the other side of the world.
Im loving how this salty arguments are evolving over time now its " There should be someone more qualified even tho I dont know who" at least tell mumei and lime to hook you up with some names before doing that.
The dude made an honest apology and everyone moved on.
The dude made an honest apology and everyone moved on.
Anton Sugar
Member
darthsontin
Member
Saying "stop all online harassment" in the context of trying to stop specific harassment of women on the internet is like saying "all lives matter" in response to the "black lives matter" movement. Here is a good article on why you shouldn't say "all lives matter." This is a similar situation where the issue is women being harassed online specifically because they are women. Trying to make it anything else is an unnecessary distraction and distorting the real issue, even if the intention is good.
partyphone
Banned
are you accusing zoe or anita? because a lot of people, rightfully, critizied that awful shirt and I honestly would have no idea how to figure out who was first.
Oh wow, I am wrong? How nuanced, thank you!
Last research project, we did qualitative interviews with about 100 people. That does garner insight, which an education helps operationalize into something productive.
But nice to know I'm wrong just in general. Since you entertain a notion that academics can only paint a broad picture, you must know fairly little about the subject of research. You know there exists entire schools dedicated to the one individuals experience?
But it's easier to say I'm wrong.
RazielCuts
Member
Wow, how has this thread already become so toxic, people in support seem so aggressive, ready to go off on someone for the slightest thing. The talk is specifically being given as part of UN Women so it makes sense this would be talking about online harassment of women.
I think this is a cool thing. Not least for it being like 'Hey, theres an internet person I 'know' and they're in the real world, outside of my computer bubble actually doing important stuff.'
I think this is a cool thing. Not least for it being like 'Hey, theres an internet person I 'know' and they're in the real world, outside of my computer bubble actually doing important stuff.'
the irony is not very strong here tbh
calling out alllivesmatter shit vs actual harassment hmmm
Any receipts on that info?
Good for all of them, the more people know how online interactions can affect your life in horrible ways, the better.
notworksafe
Member
The same UN that has Saudi Arabia as the head of the human rights council? I'm sure they'll take this issue very seriously.
partyphone
Banned
the biggest thing is that sites need to fundamentally rethink how they are structured. twitter, for example, was built on the idea that everyone would be friends. so assholes have easily been able to exploit that.
also the anonymity thing is mostly bullshit as Facebook comments have demonstrated.
TatteredHat
Member
Sarkeesian and Quinn are one thing, but Harper and Eveleth speaking about Online Harrassment falls in the same category as Saudi Arabia being appointed the head country for the UN's Human Rights panel.
plebegamer
Banned
No offense but those two are known for some scummy shit as well as being harassed, which they've spun into careers. There have to be much, much better choices for speaking out about internet harassment in general than these two.
Every time even one of these names comes up, the same tired, terrible lines like 'great message, wrong messenger' come up. It's like you're dealing with a cult whose members had to memorize a book of fortune cookie arguments.
Like clockwork. List them. Hotwheelz and Totalbiscuit, right?
Like clockwork. List them. Hotwheelz and Totalbiscuit, right?
partyphone
Banned
Anton Sugar
Member
Coffee Dog
Banned
Yeah, if you're asking to be treated like an asshole by posting alllivesmatter dogshit then you can't be surprised when people react accordingly.
space scientist apologizes for sexist shirt
Rosetta scientist breaks down during apology live
I think the original tweet is gone by now thought
By all means. Enlighten us with a candidate.
Spheyr
Banned
Online anonymity is very important for free discourse.
That's a bad way to go about a joke and really doesn't do you any favors does it?
On topic, good for them both. I think Anita is way more suited to this than Zoe Quinn (in fact I have a hard time seeing Zoe Quinn being anywhere near as good as Anita and wonder about that) but nevertheless sounds good. I have no idea what will come of this UN trip but hopefully good things.
I couldn't tell you about Quinn, but any "scummy shit" Sarkeesian is involved with is fairly tame and only ever brought up (or dug out to begin with) as a means of discrediting her opinions on videogames. What bad things has she done, besides getting something wrong in Hitman and saying years ago that she doesn't identify as a gamer? I don't consider crowd funding a sin either considering some of my favourite games came from it.
Please elaborate on this 'scummy shit' that has any corroborate of real evidence attached.
I shall laugh heartily if imgur pics or youtube videos from known GGers get posted.
Anton Sugar
Member
Those aren't "receipts" for Anita and/or Zoe supposedly mounting an online harassment campaign.
One of your articles even specifies that the apology was unsolicited.
MisterR
Member
This over aggressive attitude is how they lose a lot of people who would likely support their cause as well. It's really sad.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Who exactly are you referring to?
You guys just come out of the woodwork with these topics, don't ya?
I think you should educate yourself on (for example) sociocultural anthropological methodologies and paradigms if you truly believe academic research in social science doesn't deal with individuals and only paints broad pictures.
silvermember
Banned
If you willing choose to ignore the first few sentences I wrote that is YOUR problem not mine. In any case, you are still wrong.
I would love to see these imaginary schools that focuses entirely on individual experiences, because that would make for some poor learning. You can learn from individual experiences but academic knowledge is no substitute for real world experience. Academic knowledge by definition is impersonal, it has to be to be applicable to the general population.
Since you love focusing on the Tl;dr
tl;dr
You are still less correct.
Academic social science uses board strokes. It is by design impersonal. You cannot properly analyse a culture by looking at specific individuals, you look at things that are common within that specific culture. In any case, people currently experiencing harassment are more important because they show the individual impact of harassment. Most academics do not get to experience that.
Gnome Scat
Member
Interesting, wonder how it's going to turn out. Who's this Zoe Quinn person though?
UncleSporky
Member
Just mentally picturing your comment the other way around, that's all.
partyphone
Banned
it is yeah. especially for people who live in oppressive regimes. and I think it's entirely possible to balance that while giving people the tools to deal with harassment. the problem is sites like twitter have to be pressured into even doing the bare minimum. and governments rarely help out. unless the harasser makes the mistake of pretending to be a Muslim terrorist. there's a lot that can be done to make things better and no one in power is doing much about it.
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