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Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn are speaking at the UN about online harassment

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ANDS

King of Gaslighting
Yeah, it should be people who haven't personally experienced the worst kind of gender-based harassment. That would give them more credibility, right? I mean, if these women have been so specifically targeted, they can't be completely innocent in all this, right?

This is sarcasm.

Those who have been dealing with the exact issue the topic is discussing aren't great choices to talk about it?

Already addressed but there are academics who probably have binders full of women to lend their "voice" to this issue; women who do not have the advantage of celebrity.

I don't doubt it. but have they also spent a lot of time presenting that research to large crowds of disinterested people?

but I'm sure you can come up with a few examples!

What does this comment even mean?
 
Funny that certain people at gamergate or in general criticizers of Anita or people who speak of issues of marginalized groups, aren't able to be this influential or get these opportunities .

Besides bitching and spewing whataboutisms ; they do a whole not of nothing. I guess they really don't care about their own issues as much as they think they do .
 
All I wanted to say is if some kind of laws against online harassment are made with this, or if anything comes out of it, that it protects all victims of online harassment, not just women, who yes, are getting harassed purely on the fact that they are women.

I see. If anything, the perspective of a marginalized group will lead to more nuanced discussion and decision-making. So that, if any legislation eventually comes out of this, it's not just accounting for broad harassment but also for specialty groups.

I respect that they are talking to the UN about such an issue and bringing more attention to it.

That said, I've never viewed the UN as a very good place to go about well...much of anything. True they will bring attention to it, but I don't expect anything substantive to come out of it. They(the UN) can hardly stop people from committing crimes against humanity or help solve the current refugee crisis so I don't imagine they'll be much help combating online harassment. Seems like one of those things individual governments are better suited at addressing.

But getting the word out is always good.

This, too :(
 
Whether anyone agrees with them on the issues they talk about or not..

... If there's something they know better than most, it's online harassment, and I hope they can help solve the issue.
 

Nightbird

Member
I know women and girls are getting the worst of it, and I'm all for this, but... if you're going to talk about this at the UN, how about we end online harassment period?

We have to start somewhere before we get rid of everything.

I am happy they made it this far. Maybe this issue will get the attention it needs now
 
I agree. They helped make it a public issue to be addressed, but there are a lot of academics that have researched this issue for years.

Academics who have NO real world experience with harassment. Academics are good when making policy. Those two are perfect are talking about how online harassment affects individuals. Academics can only paint a broad picture, they don't deal with individuals.

tl;dr
You are wrong.
 
What does this comment even mean?

it's one thing to be well versed on a subject and quite another to present the information you have to a large group of people who don't have any special interest, or knowledge of any kind, about the topic. a lot of people speak at the UN on a wide variety of topics. it's a rare opportunity but not a magical one so a certain amount of showmanship is required.

Zoe and Anita regularly give talks on this subject to varied audineces and are a good choice for this.

but if the person I replied to is so sure there is someone better suited for the task it will be trivial to list them.
 

Nohar

Member
Good for both of them. Nothing justifies the harassment they got, and that's coming from a guy who disagrees a lot with Anita.

Pretty much my stance. Anita's videos were kind of a hit-and-miss for me: while I agree with the messages, some examples are taken out of contest or shoehorned. Nonetheless, she was a victim of vicious harassment, and no one deserves to be harassed for their ideas or simply for being a woman (or just different).

I wish them well, and hope that their conference will be fruitful.
 

Breads

Banned
I'm not too interested in all this "cyber harassment" talk, but I guess it's reasonable to see many of you wanting for something to be done about it. That said, are there any prevalent ideas on what that something is supposed to be... in other words, what are the suggested practical solutions to the issue at hand, or is that phase not reached yet?

The end to anonymity for starters. Anonymity on the public level is still fine but somehow limiting sockpuppet accounts and somehow making it easier to trace someone's online movements once investigations begin is a start. Holding twitter accountable if they refuse to cooperate (since they handwave a lot of harassment away) is another. Tightening their registration process and adding more means for controlling incoming or outgoing or visible messages is another.
 

kejigoto

Banned
Fantastic idea. Maybe not the greatest people to choose as representatives though.

Can't imagine many better

How about not someone who decided to attack and then start a huge online harassment attack against the person who managed to land a probe on a meteorite all because of what he was wearing the day the landing occurred?

I think that would be a good place to start.
 
Considering the UN appointed Saudi Arabia as the head country for a human rights panel I have to wonder if anyone there even gives a shit about harassment of women. Good on Anita and Zoe for speaking there at least.
 

petran79

Banned
Academics who have NO real world experience with harassment. Academics are good when making policy. Those two are perfect are talking about how online harassment affects individuals. Academics can only paint a broad picture, they don't deal with individuals.

tl;dr
You are wrong.

Annita sees it more from a sociological view.
This really belongs more to psychology. There are many psychologist who specialise in that field and have written countless essays. I was even at a small conference were a psychologist was explaining to the parents about kids, the internet and online games.

I remember asking him that when we were kids we had the arcades and there werent any online games. He told me that for them it was much more exciting to play with people from the other side of the world.
 

JDSN

Banned
Im loving how this salty arguments are evolving over time now its " There should be someone more qualified even tho I dont know who" at least tell mumei and lime to hook you up with some names before doing that.

How about not someone who decided to attack and then start a huge online harassment attack against the person who managed to land a probe on a meteorite all because of what he was wearing the day the landing occurred?

I think that would be a good place to start.

The dude made an honest apology and everyone moved on.
 
How about not someone who decided to attack and then start a huge online harassment attack against the person who managed to land a probe on a meteorite all because of what he was wearing the day the landing occurred?

I think that would be a good place to start.

VPUeTWr.gif


Im loving how this salty arguments are evolving over time now its " There should be someone more qualified even tho I dont know who" at least tell mumei and lime to hook you up with some names before doing that.

lol

Perfect.
 

Spheyr

Banned
Many on this list of "presenters" are gross perpetrators of online harassment themselves, so it's ironic that they're going to talk about ending harassment.

Step 1 should be starting with themselves.
 
I know women and girls are getting the worst of it, and I'm all for this, but... if you're going to talk about this at the UN, how about we end online harassment period?

Saying "stop all online harassment" in the context of trying to stop specific harassment of women on the internet is like saying "all lives matter" in response to the "black lives matter" movement. Here is a good article on why you shouldn't say "all lives matter." This is a similar situation where the issue is women being harassed online specifically because they are women. Trying to make it anything else is an unnecessary distraction and distorting the real issue, even if the intention is good.
 
How about not someone who decided to attack and then start a huge online harassment attack against the person who managed to land a probe on a meteorite all because of what he was wearing the day the landing occurred?

I think that would be a good place to start.

are you accusing zoe or anita? because a lot of people, rightfully, critizied that awful shirt and I honestly would have no idea how to figure out who was first.
 

Hedge

Member
Academics who have NO real world experience with harassment. Academics are good when making policy. Those two are perfect are talking about how online harassment affects individuals. Academics can only paint a broad picture, they don't deal with individuals.

tl;dr
You are wrong.

Oh wow, I am wrong? How nuanced, thank you!
Last research project, we did qualitative interviews with about 100 people. That does garner insight, which an education helps operationalize into something productive.
But nice to know I'm wrong just in general. Since you entertain a notion that academics can only paint a broad picture, you must know fairly little about the subject of research. You know there exists entire schools dedicated to the one individuals experience?

But it's easier to say I'm wrong.
 
Wow, how has this thread already become so toxic, people in support seem so aggressive, ready to go off on someone for the slightest thing. The talk is specifically being given as part of UN Women so it makes sense this would be talking about online harassment of women.

I think this is a cool thing. Not least for it being like 'Hey, theres an internet person I 'know' and they're in the real world, outside of my computer bubble actually doing important stuff.'
 

Sulik2

Member
What are some of the ideas being floated? This is a huge problem, but I am not really sure how you fix the fact that anonymity on the internet leads to everyone being terrible since they don't fear consequences.
 

Robaperas

Junior Member
How about not someone who decided to attack and then start a huge online harassment attack against the person who managed to land a probe on a meteorite all because of what he was wearing the day the landing occurred?

I think that would be a good place to start.

Any receipts on that info?


Good for all of them, the more people know how online interactions can affect your life in horrible ways, the better.
 

notworksafe

Member
The same UN that has Saudi Arabia as the head of the human rights council? I'm sure they'll take this issue very seriously.
 
What are some of the ideas being floated? This is a huge problem, but I am not really sure how you fix the fact that anonymity on the internet leads to everyone being terrible since they don't fear consequences.

the biggest thing is that sites need to fundamentally rethink how they are structured. twitter, for example, was built on the idea that everyone would be friends. so assholes have easily been able to exploit that.

also the anonymity thing is mostly bullshit as Facebook comments have demonstrated.
 
Sarkeesian and Quinn are one thing, but Harper and Eveleth speaking about Online Harrassment falls in the same category as Saudi Arabia being appointed the head country for the UN's Human Rights panel.
 
No offense but those two are known for some scummy shit as well as being harassed, which they've spun into careers. There have to be much, much better choices for speaking out about internet harassment in general than these two.
 

Carcetti

Member
Every time even one of these names comes up, the same tired, terrible lines like 'great message, wrong messenger' come up. It's like you're dealing with a cult whose members had to memorize a book of fortune cookie arguments.

There have to be much, much better choices for speaking out about internet harassment in general than these two.

Like clockwork. List them. Hotwheelz and Totalbiscuit, right?
 
No offense but those two are known for some scummy shit as well as being harassed, which they've spun into careers. There have to be much, much better choices for speaking out about internet harassment in general than these two.
what kind of scummy shit?

also who would be better?
 

Garlador

Member
No offense but those two are known for some scummy shit as well as being harassed, which they've spun into careers. There have to be much, much better choices for speaking out about internet harassment in general than these two.

By all means. Enlighten us with a candidate.
 

Spheyr

Banned
the biggest thing is that sites need to fundamentally rethink how they are structured. twitter, for example, was built on the idea that everyone would be friends. so assholes have easily been able to exploit that.

also the anonymity thing is mostly bullshit as Facebook comments have demonstrated.

Online anonymity is very important for free discourse.
 

ExVicis

Member
Ehhh, I'm just showing him the allies that line of thinking has. It has become omnipresent as a response to basically any movement that seeks to represent the underrepresented.

He's a big boy, he can handle a nasty joke or two.
That's a bad way to go about a joke and really doesn't do you any favors does it?

On topic, good for them both. I think Anita is way more suited to this than Zoe Quinn (in fact I have a hard time seeing Zoe Quinn being anywhere near as good as Anita and wonder about that) but nevertheless sounds good. I have no idea what will come of this UN trip but hopefully good things.
 

MrBadger

Member
No offense but those two are known for some scummy shit as well as being harassed, which they've spun into careers. There have to be much, much better choices for speaking out about internet harassment in general than these two.

I couldn't tell you about Quinn, but any "scummy shit" Sarkeesian is involved with is fairly tame and only ever brought up (or dug out to begin with) as a means of discrediting her opinions on videogames. What bad things has she done, besides getting something wrong in Hitman and saying years ago that she doesn't identify as a gamer? I don't consider crowd funding a sin either considering some of my favourite games came from it.
 

Armaros

Member
No offense but those two are known for some scummy shit as well as being harassed, which they've spun into careers. There have to be much, much better choices for speaking out about internet harassment in general than these two.

Please elaborate on this 'scummy shit' that has any corroborate of real evidence attached.

I shall laugh heartily if imgur pics or youtube videos from known GGers get posted.
 

MisterR

Member
Wow, how has this thread already become so toxic, people in support seem so aggressive, ready to go off on someone for the slightest thing. The talk is specifically being given as part of UN Women so it makes sense this would be talking about online harassment of women.

I think this is a cool thing. Not least for it being like 'Hey, theres an internet person I 'know' and they're in the real world, outside of my computer bubble actually doing important stuff.'

This over aggressive attitude is how they lose a lot of people who would likely support their cause as well. It's really sad.
 
Many on this list of "presenters" are gross perpetrators of online harassment themselves, so it's ironic that they're going to talk about ending harassment.

Step 1 should be starting with themselves.

Who exactly are you referring to?

No offense but those two are known for some scummy shit as well as being harassed, which they've spun into careers. There have to be much, much better choices for speaking out about internet harassment in general than these two.

You guys just come out of the woodwork with these topics, don't ya?
 

ilium

Member
Academics who have NO real world experience with harassment. Academics are good when making policy. Those two are perfect are talking about how online harassment affects individuals. Academics can only paint a broad picture, they don't deal with individuals.

tl;dr
You are wrong.

I think you should educate yourself on (for example) sociocultural anthropological methodologies and paradigms if you truly believe academic research in social science doesn't deal with individuals and only paints broad pictures.
 
Oh wow, I am wrong? How nuanced, thank you!
Last research project, we did qualitative interviews with about 100 people. That does garner insight, which an education helps operationalize into something productive.
But nice to know I'm wrong just in general. Since you entertain a notion that academics can only paint a broad picture, you must know fairly little about the subject of research. You know there exists entire schools dedicated to the one individuals experience?

But it's easier to say I'm wrong.

If you willing choose to ignore the first few sentences I wrote that is YOUR problem not mine. In any case, you are still wrong.

I would love to see these imaginary schools that focuses entirely on individual experiences, because that would make for some poor learning. You can learn from individual experiences but academic knowledge is no substitute for real world experience. Academic knowledge by definition is impersonal, it has to be to be applicable to the general population.

Since you love focusing on the Tl;dr

tl;dr

You are still less correct.

I think you should educate yourself on (for example) sociocultural anthropological methodologies and paradigms if you truly believe academic research in social science doesn't deal with individuals and only paints broad pictures.
Academic social science uses board strokes. It is by design impersonal. You cannot properly analyse a culture by looking at specific individuals, you look at things that are common within that specific culture. In any case, people currently experiencing harassment are more important because they show the individual impact of harassment. Most academics do not get to experience that.
 
Sure, calling someone out on their whataboutism (at a moment where this style of argument is blacking out the fucking sun) in a slightly impolite manner is harassment.

Not being able to handle a snarky comment is a world of difference apart from being harrassed. No one has to be nice when criticizing others. If he's violated by that post I made, which did nothing to make him feel unsafe or violated beyond challenging his logic, perhaps he should consider the harassment suffered by the women his whataboutism attempts to steer attention away from.

Just mentally picturing your comment the other way around, that's all.

She's a big girl, she can handle a nasty joke or two.
 
Online anonymity is very important for free discourse.

it is yeah. especially for people who live in oppressive regimes. and I think it's entirely possible to balance that while giving people the tools to deal with harassment. the problem is sites like twitter have to be pressured into even doing the bare minimum. and governments rarely help out. unless the harasser makes the mistake of pretending to be a Muslim terrorist. there's a lot that can be done to make things better and no one in power is doing much about it.
 
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