Why would Pete Hines even know something about the quest design? He's the PR guy.
But yeah, that would be one hell of a coincidence. :lol:
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Apparently Bethesda ripped off a New Vegas mod for a Far Habor Quest in Fallout 4
- Thread starter Sou Da
- Start date
Why would Pete Hines even know something about the quest design? He's the PR guy.
But yeah, that would be one hell of a coincidence. :lol:
BaronMonstro
Member
When I think of disingenuous PR suits that say whatever they think will sell their game, I think of Pete Hines
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Hines is full of it. Water is wet.
_/¯.Huge Succeeded
Banned
BigTnaples don't care, he's been corrected at least half a dozen times on his insistence in considering New Vegas a Fallout 3 expansion with mods built in
and yet here we are again
To believe the accusation of plagiarism, you have to believe:
- employees of Bethsoft are still playing F:NV
- and they played this one obscure mod
- and someone decided that it was cheaper to go through the effort and expense of editing the script, changing details, recording VA, than to just use the actual mod wholesale.
The EULA for F:NV mods is broad enough that they could just use the mod and give a credit, and minimize expenses to testing, asset upgrades, and VA, which would be vastly less expensive than what they did.
Occam's razor applies here: it's a coincidence (most likely, both mods drew from similar inspiration) and this is nothing more than cheap controversy to get more eyes on an obscure F:NV mod.
- employees of Bethsoft are still playing F:NV
- and they played this one obscure mod
- and someone decided that it was cheaper to go through the effort and expense of editing the script, changing details, recording VA, than to just use the actual mod wholesale.
The EULA for F:NV mods is broad enough that they could just use the mod and give a credit, and minimize expenses to testing, asset upgrades, and VA, which would be vastly less expensive than what they did.
Occam's razor applies here: it's a coincidence (most likely, both mods drew from similar inspiration) and this is nothing more than cheap controversy to get more eyes on an obscure F:NV mod.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I'm not sure why you think any of this. Particularly that they'd even want to use a mod wholesale as a quest.
Even if they had reused the same script verbatim (and there's no way they'd want to), they'd still be re-recording the VA (for cohesion with the rest of the game's sound design) and they'd still be utilizing new assets. The idea that they'd even consider just planting a mod quest from an older game into their newer game wholesale just doesn't make sense
call_kotaku
Member
It's entirely possible that only a single person used the mod as an influence and didn't inform anyone else on the team about it. It's easier for me to think of Bethesda as slightly negligent and a bit careless as opposed to a team of competent villains that carry out complicated conspiracies with low payoffs. If anything, the state of their games should point to the former option being far more likely.
The problem is that even if Bethesda realizes one of its employees fucked up, I don't think they can admit to it or remedy it somehow without setting an unfavorable precedent if further coincidences happen in the future ("intentionally" or not). "Fuck you we own you" might end up being the only response they can reasonably take with this.
The problem is that even if Bethesda realizes one of its employees fucked up, I don't think they can admit to it or remedy it somehow without setting an unfavorable precedent if further coincidences happen in the future ("intentionally" or not). "Fuck you we own you" might end up being the only response they can reasonably take with this.
Why wouldn't the makers of RPGs play some of the best RPGs out there?
The similarities are way too close for this to not be the case in the first place, that one design of the central room is near identical. Shit, you're stretching way more than anyone seeing similarities between the two :lol. But gotta defend those poor saps at Bethesda, I guess.
I wasn't condoning it. Just saying it's naive to think that the modder has any legal recourse.
Dick Justice
Banned
Yup.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Yeah just give the licenses to more capable studios. Everyone would be happier.
Hierophant
Banned
stop pretending corporations are your friends
they really aren't
they really aren't
Here's my hot take on this:
- It's not an asset or mechanical copy so much as a questline with a similar overall structure and story concept
- Entirely possibly that one or more persons on the quest design team played the mod, liked it, and tried to make a version of it
- Said people may or may not have disclosed this inspiration to anyone else in the team
- The idea of a murder mystery featuring robots set in a Vault is not really -that- uniquely odd to be considered a smoking gun in a setting like Fallout
- Whatever the EULA for the mod creation tools say is irrelevant because from an ethical standpoint if you're going to copy something you should give the original creator a heads up even if you are legally entitled to do so
So in the end, I think the only people who really know the truth will be the people who made this quest. If they can sleep well at night knowing they did nothing wrong, that's all good.
- It's not an asset or mechanical copy so much as a questline with a similar overall structure and story concept
- Entirely possibly that one or more persons on the quest design team played the mod, liked it, and tried to make a version of it
- Said people may or may not have disclosed this inspiration to anyone else in the team
- The idea of a murder mystery featuring robots set in a Vault is not really -that- uniquely odd to be considered a smoking gun in a setting like Fallout
- Whatever the EULA for the mod creation tools say is irrelevant because from an ethical standpoint if you're going to copy something you should give the original creator a heads up even if you are legally entitled to do so
So in the end, I think the only people who really know the truth will be the people who made this quest. If they can sleep well at night knowing they did nothing wrong, that's all good.
I think you missed the point I was trying to make--which is that, to call this plagiarism, you have to basically ignore the fact that there is zero motivation for Bethesda to willfully and intentionally do so.
Bethesda is not a person though. A game is developed in parts by a large team of people who individually contribute to various aspects of it. This is a single questline in a larger story DLC. I think it is entirely plausible that one or more people involved in coming up with this particular questline for this DLC might have played the mod in question and took inspiration from it, maybe a little too closely, and without disclosing it to others. It could be innocuous inspiration which didn't feel like plagiarism, or it could be willful intent because of laziness or lack of their own original idea. We won't know, but it's not really unbelievable...
Doubtful it goes that far up, as Bethesda's QA is notoriously quite shit.
The lead designer of the quest probably played the mod, liked/plagiarized it and was dumb enough to think no one would notice.
In the end, this guy probably gets laid off down the line. But there is no way Bethsoft is going to do anything buy deny/ignore this.
Of course there's motivation. Same as game artists tracing art on the Internet. It's easier to copy than it is to create. Even with all the work of rebuilding the quest for F4, it's much easier to do that than to make it entirely from scratch. These are people on a deadline. They have to produce content to meet the preset rollout date, and maybe an original idea just didn't come to them in time.
They could put a clause in their eula for their next game that by playing their game they own my penis in perpetuity, doesn't much mean they could come down to my house and tear my dick off any time they want.
Idk how many times people have to say Eula's aren't legally binding documents before people actually "get it" that just because a corporation tells you something in a bunch of arbitrary legalese doesn't make it so.
Yeah this is the most likely explanation.
This is rather pathetic for Bethesda.
I continue to be impressed by how low the developer of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind has fallen. From the subsequent Elder Scrolls games, to two creatively bankrupt Fallout games. How did they go from one of the shining examples of world-building to where they are today?
I continue to be impressed by how low the developer of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind has fallen. From the subsequent Elder Scrolls games, to two creatively bankrupt Fallout games. How did they go from one of the shining examples of world-building to where they are today?
I appreciate this post.
Oh wow! I actually remember that xD.
Are they on the Nexus? I want one punch man mods!
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Lmfaooo the funniest part of all of this is that as soon as I found the quest I told one of my friends "dude go do the hotel in far harbor there is this insanely unique questline involving the robo brains that is leagues above anything else in this"
This is binding, though. Anyone competent in US contract law will tell you that.
Well, PR gonna PR. I'm sure saying "Yeah, it was a good concept so we jacked it. Suck it modders, we own you." wouldn't fly, despite that being a more accurate statement.
It's interesting how trying to spin PR always, always makes a company look worse.
If they did indeed lift the idea, they could do what Avalanche did with the guy who made the Just Cause 2 multiplayer mod- work with him or give him a job. Or at the very least, ask permission and credit him for his damn work.
On second thought, yeah, you're right, that does seem completely plausible. I wouldn't doubt that's what happened, but really they would be better off copping to it in a round about way and crediting the guy for the inspiration or story than trying to play it off as sheer coincidence, because either way the message being sent seems to be of the "F--- you we own you" variety.
IANAL but the thing is that without Bethesda's consent a derivative work of Fallout isn't allowed to begin with.
...what do Todd Howard and Notch have to do with anything here?
Im just being cheeky cause Minecraft also used fan mods for its content.
poppedcollar69
Member
Man everything Hines and Howard ever say is just infuriating
DiscoJer
Member
As someone who briefly did QA for Bethesda back in the Daggerfall days, I have to object. The problem wasn't the testing (which at least back then, were recruited from big fans of their games), but management who insisted games had to ship on a certain date and they used a triage method when it came to bugs.
Backlogger
Member
I agree with your first 3 bullet points and said something similar many pages back. Even if someone totally lifted the idea from the mod its possible they didn't tell their superiors about where they got their idea.
Better thing to have done is said "We don't believe anything was done wrong here but we will investigate internally..." etc, and if they find that an employee took the idea then come out later and give credit to the modder (and maybe fire the employee). Instead they are kind of coming off as defensive, which makes them seem guilty
As someone who's a bit of a lore-junkie, this was painful.
Most egregiously, you don't even have to know a lot about the lore. That's one of the most important story bits of the second game.
MMaRsu
Banned
Haha why would they, this is hardly causing an uproar
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Sound like a Fallout version of the Dark Brotherhood quest "Whodunit?" That quest was a standout in Oblivion, and I'm not surprised that Bethesda would want to recapture it.
They ripped off this rip-off of some of their better work which is mostly just taken from Star Trek TNG episodes anyways.
They ripped off this rip-off of some of their better work which is mostly just taken from Star Trek TNG episodes anyways.
Pantaghana
Member
On the legal side of things, Bethesda is 100% within their rights.
Acknowledging the creator while recreating their mod would have been perfectly acceptable, even if the mod creator got no other compesation.
But recreating a mod and passing it off as your own is morally and creatively bankrupt.
Acknowledging the creator while recreating their mod would have been perfectly acceptable, even if the mod creator got no other compesation.
But recreating a mod and passing it off as your own is morally and creatively bankrupt.