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[Lord Error]

That lag has got to be due to TV. 60FPS game can't have that much input lag. Of course it's not caused by the controller or the console, that's nonsense.

 

[Laughing_Man__]

Any idea what version of the game this is? The stuff I heard from Eurogamer was pretty good about it looking and playing great.

 

[Odrion]

That lag has got to be due to TV. 60FPS game can't have that much input lag.

It could if it had some really fucked up triple buffering and netcode, maybe.

 

[Sithlord77]

33ms in game mode according to HDTVTest.

With Motionflow enabled, input lag is going to be double or triple that. Frankly, anything above 40ms is unplayable IMO.

fake edit:
116ms with Motionflow Smooth. Welp.

I really don't know how it doesn't bother you. I'm very sensitive to input lag. Some console games are nigh unplayable thanks to their atrocious lag. My Samsung has 40 ms of input lag in game mode but even then it bothers me when playing COD online.

What console games do you consider unplayable with high input lag? Just curious as I want to try one and see if it bothers me. I really don't notice the lag difference though you know. I have constantly switched to game mode on and have it off with motionflow like 20 times in a row as people keep saying it introduces tons of lag. I moved around with the stick each time with different games and maybe I noticed a teeny bit of lag sometimes but only because I was looking for it. Normal gameplay I'd never notice it as it's so small and sometimes I thought it was in my head it's that minimal anyway.

In any case the trade off for me personally is huge. Games are way too jerky at 30fps especially when you move the camera the background is so blurry without motionflow it makes your eyes hurt. I could'nt go back now without motionflow or its equivalent...it really does make a game like Gears seem as if it's running at 60fps. I never have it on for video though it makes things look live and fake. Hobbit was better at 24fps.

 

[twobear]

Can't wait to get my hands on the controller and see for myself.

The tiggers and bumpers do look bad, but it's impossible to tell for sure.

Will be amazing if Microsoft have actually spent all that money just to fuck up their controller design,

I dunno, it would be pretty consistent with MS's current modus operandi.

 

[VE3TRO]

Jesus that lag lol. I played the beta on console and couldn't aim for shit.

I have no problem with other FPS titles it's just Battlefield 3 and the 4 beta. Probably just get it on PC.

 

[GodParticle]

I hope the controller isn't too different. I think the 360 one is damn near perfection

 

[Laughing_Man__]

Since we are on the topic of TVs. how should I go about calibrating my new one?

 

[BadTaste]

33ms in game mode according to HDTVTest.

With Motionflow enabled, input lag is going to be double or triple that. Frankly, anything above 40ms is unplayable IMO.

fake edit:
116ms with Motionflow Smooth. Welp.

I really don't know how it doesn't bother you. I'm very sensitive to input lag. Some console games are nigh unplayable thanks to their atrocious lag. My Samsung has 40 ms of input lag in game mode but even then it bothers me when playing COD online.

I feel ya brother, I can't remember the last time I played BF3 any higher than 576p on my PS3.. this is my TV

 

[Vidpixel]

The game looks slightly better than Xbox 360 version of BF3 (I would say 50% better, no where near those videos of Paracel Storm gamescom build). Though textures are a lot better than on X360, some god rays, lots of foliage on the map.

While I admit that I haven't played Battlefield 4 on the Xbox One, and yeah, the general consensus seems to be the current demo build is a little rough, I do find this specific statement very hard to believe.

 

[ethomaz]

What console games do you consider unplayable with high input lag? Just curious as I want to try one and see if it bothers me. I really don't notice the lag difference though you know. I have constantly switched to game mode on and have it off with motionflow like 20 times in a row as people keep saying it introduces tons of lag. I moved around with the stick each time with different games and maybe I noticed a teeny bit of lag sometimes but only because I was looking for it. Normal gameplay I'd never notice it as it's so small and sometimes I thought it was in my head it's that minimal anyway.

In any case the trade off for me personally is huge. Games are way too jerky at 30fps especially when you move the camera the background is so blurry without motionflow it makes your eyes hurt. I could'nt go back now without motionflow or its equivalent...it really does make a game like Gears seem as if it's running at 60fps. I never have it on for video though it makes things look live and fake. Hobbit was better at 24fps.

First put off everything in your TV that make some processing... and put on Game Mode. I will give some examples...

Dynamic Contrast = OFF
Black Tone = OFF
Edge Enhancement = OFF
Motion Lighting = OFF
Digital Noise Filter = OFF
Any kind of Motion = OFF

Game Mode = ON

Make the test after that

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

RE: The bumpers. I think the biggest problem is not the bumpers at launch, but how the begin to feel over time. Once they are used a bit, i can see them becoming more uncomfortable.

 

[Fried Food]

That lag is obviously coming from the tv. No way it wouldn't have been brought up before now.

 

[MajorasHalo]

That lag has got to be due to TV. 60FPS game can't have that much input lag. Of course it's not caused by the controller or the console, that's nonsense.

Buddy even 30FPS has no lag like this.

 

[WelfareBurger]

The PS4 version better not have input lag. I was sad that the beta on PS3 still has lag!

 

[angrygnat]

I am most curious with the comments about the controller. I have never been a fan of the 360 controller as I can't understand the reasoning behind the offset analog sticks. I'm just used to them being side by side. That being said, almost to a man, people adore the Xbox controllers. It's their forte'. I can't believe for a second that MS has totally messed up their controllers. Especially since they have been getting glowing reviews in every publication I have read. I will be filing this under, articles I don't put much stock in.

 

[Sithlord77]

First put off everything in your TV that make some processing... and put on Game Mode. I will give some examples...

Dynamic Contrast = OFF
Black Tone = OFF
Edge Enhancement = OFF
Motion Lighting = OFF
Digital Noise Filter = OFF
Any kind of Motion = OFF

Game Mode = ON

Make the test after that

Those options have been set to OFF since I got the TV as it was recommended in calibration tests.

The only thing that's different for me is Motion set to Smooth as I want the games to move smooth - the lag that introduces is so minor that I don't notice and it doesnt impact gameplay. Game Mode is set to OFF too as you can't enable motion when it's set to ON. I have tested it with Game mode ON and all the other things OFF many times before just to be certain and there's barely if any noticeable difference. My point is, if it was anywhere near as bad as what's shown in this video I'd never have motion options on believe me. That's on another level. I could never play it like that.

If I do notice input lag, it falls under such minor differences where you might as well tie it with my controller doesn't feel brand new anymore or my seat could be more comfortable or my TVs brightness isn't correct. I mean what's worse? A stick that isn't in the dead zone and off centered or input lag that is barely noticeable and the trade off is 60fps like motion?

 

[Goodacre0081]

Gif of the video.

fuckin guy is wearing a neck brace, input lag must be brutal

 

[Laughing_Man__]

I think the general idea is that it was the TV or the current build.

 

[keuja]

If there's one thing MS will do well, it's the controller. Although I'm more used to the symmetrical analog stick layout, the xbone pad looks great and I'm sure they did their homework on the bumper/trigger thing.

 

[ethomaz]

Those options have been set to OFF since I got the TV as it was recommended in calibration tests.

The only thing that's different for me is Motion set to Smooth as I want the games to move smooth - the lag that introduces is so minor that I don't notice and it doesnt impact gameplay. Game Mode is set to OFF too as you can't enable motion when it's set to ON. I have tested it with Game mode ON and all the other things OFF many times before just to be certain and there's barely if any noticeable difference. My point is, if it was anywhere near as bad as what's shown in this video I'd never have motion options on believe me. That's on another level. I could never play it like that.

If I do notice input lag, it falls under such minor differences where you might as well tie it with my controller doesn't feel brand new anymore or my seat could be more comfortable or my TVs brightness isn't correct. I mean what's worse? A stick that isn't in the dead zone and off centered or input lag that is barely noticeable and the trade off is 60fps like motion?

Maybe is just your sensibility... I can't play with motion on

I hate the fact Samsung disable all options when you set Game Mode ON... I have my best calibration on Movie Mode and the Game Mode uses the Standard Mode only that have a lot of calibration options disabled.

I have a D8000 but I think I won't buy a Samsumg next time... I like the TV but I will try another one to see how it works

 

[Bishop89]

wowzers, sounds awful.

 

[aronmayo2]

This is the biggest troll OP I've ever seen. There's no way it could possibly be that bad based on all other impressions. Most people have loved the controller yet now it's apparently made of knives and is the worst controller of all time. All very laughable. The main chassis of the controller is extremely similar to the Xbox 360 controller.

 

[keuja]

This is the biggest troll OP I've ever seen. There's no way it could possibly be that bad based on all other impressions. Most people have loved the controller yet now it's apparently made of knives and is the worst controller of all time. All very laughable. The main chassis of the controller is extremely similar to the Xbox 360 controller.

One guy giving his impression does not make him a "troll". He doesn't like it, fair enough... but it doesn't mean the vast majority won't like it considering the very positive reviews it has received so far.

 

[SLY_]

If the game was as terrible as the OP claims I'm sure the story would've gotten out long before now, but that's not the case. I'll reserve judgement until I play the product but this opinion seems like quite the outlier.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

some people love the 360 controller
some people hate it

some people love the xb1 controller
some people hate it

i did not see that coming.

You should keep your preorder

 

[93xfan]

One year exclusivity according to CBOAT.

That's a good while. I didn't know about that. I just guessed a big budget title like that wouldn't be withheld for so long.

 

[MaulerX]

Gif of the video.

Doesn't any video of that nature make the lag seem or appear worse than what it actually is? Heck, even Kinect has less lag than that.

 

[Creaking]

One guy giving his impression does not make him a "troll". He doesn't like it, fair enough... but it doesn't mean the vast majority won't like it considering the very positive reviews it has received so far.

I must've missed those.

 

[SuperD77]

I wonder if this was an older build than what was available at Eurogamer since the OP said there were no vehicles available?

I watched an impression video from someone at the Eurogamer show earlier this week where the reviewer seemed quite pleased with the controls. Other than being 720p it seems to be the complete opposite of this take and also showed vehicles being used, which is what made me think it might be a newer build. Though I suppose it could have been stock footage that DICE gave him of the map rather than his own gameplay, that wasn't really clear. The commentator even said he thought it made a case for not having near as much separation between the quality of the console and PC versions.

As far as controller impressions (outside of the reported lag issue), I wonder how much people's opinions of the new controller is dependent on their hand size given the that the new controller is supposed to be a little smaller than then the the current 360 controller. Maybe folks with large paws are more prone to having issues with it?

 

[maplelord93]

I wonder if this was an older build than what was available at Eurogamer since the OP said there were no vehicles available?

I watched an impression video from someone at the Eurogamer show earlier this week where the reviewer seemed quite pleased with the controls. Other than being 720p it seems to be the complete opposite of this take and also showed vehicles being used, which is what made me think it might be a newer build. Though I suppose it could have been stock footage that DICE gave him of the map rather than his own gameplay, that wasn't really clear. The commentator even said he thought it made a case for not having near as much separation between the quality of the console and PC versions.

As far as controller impressions (outside of the reported lag issue), I wonder how much people's opinions of the new controller is dependent on their hand size given the that the new controller is supposed to be a little smaller than then the the current 360 controller. Maybe folks with large paws are more prone to having issues with it?

there is no reported lag issue

 

[Norml]

Doesn't any video of that nature make the lag seem or appear worse than what it actually is? Heck, even Kinect has less lag than that.

From the DF lag article.

Methodology for measuring gameplay lag is remarkably straightforward and was first put forward by Neversoft co-founder Mick West in this Gamasutra feature, which combined the explanation of his techniques with measurements for a number of the most popular video games. Getting a very close reading really is very simple: stick a camera capable of recording at 60FPS in front of a monitor and record the gameplay while getting the controller in the same shot. West used a Canon digicam to do the deed, while I went for a Kodak Zi6 for its cheapness and 720p60 HD capabilities. Once you've recorded your clips, simply count the frames between the button press and the resulting action on-screen. As each frame remains on-screen for 16.67ms, simply multiply that by the number of frames and - boom - that's your latency.

Of course there are complications to the basic theory. LCD displays have lag of their own. Processing and scaling can take anything up to five frames depending on how aged and decrepit your flatscreen is. West's solution was ingenious: get a baseline measurement using a CRT screen (no latency there) and use the same measurement to factor out the lag of your flatscreen. With that in mind, I was able to see that my old, but still brilliant, Dell 2405FPW lags to the tune of three frames (50ms!) running at 720p, and two frames at 1080p (not surprising really as 1080p is far closer to the screen's native 1920x1200 resolution). Nice screen, pretty awful latency.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

One of the issues with controller opinions is that coming into it, there was a ton of room for improvement that could be made on the DS3 while the 360 controller was already considered nearly perfect. So there's a much greater chance that people will be more easily impressed with the DS4 over the One controller because the improvements will be that much more noticeable. Since some people already feel the 360 pad is perfect, it'll take time to get used to the minor changes(improvements) on the new controller.

Lol

 

[B_Boss]

Even if its the XB1 I refuse to believe BF4 has that much lag on XB1 lol. 360/BF4 is absolutely beautiful given that the shitty input lag is gone. Yes for me it was existent on 360 AND PS3.

Perhaps its the TV I was using or whatnot but I do know that if I popped in Bad Company 2 it was heaven in terms of smoothness of controls, especially when making small, tight aiming and tracking. In BF3 I had to constantly tap left/right instead of a smooth hold on the analog because of that shitty lag....I hated it in BF3 and I think it was a problem in the coding of the game or something of a technical nature.

I iamgine, and given how smooth the 360 version is, the XB1 cannot be worse lol....

 

[disastermouse]

Seemed harsh on the controller, as a pad fighting game player I would love to see if it's better than 360 controller for me.

If it wasn't for Mad Catz obsoleting their sticks at the new gen, I'd advise you to buy a fight stick! A wired connection with great button feel! I switched out the stick end (bat over spinning ball) and the gates (American arcades always had octagonal gates, not squares). It's just so much better than a pad!

 

[helvetica bold]

Well of course he had noting good to say about the X1, this is NeoGaF.
BTW, I thought I saw the LG logo on the TV he was playing, if so that might explain the lag. : |

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Well of course he had noting good to say about the X1, this is NeoGaF.

How are you still around?

 

[Miguel81]

Isn't this Wi-Fi Direct tech supposed to be better than the Bluetooth 2.1?

 

[TOYCOFFIN]

Even if its the XB1 I refuse to believe BF4 has that much lag on XB1 lol. 360/BF4 is absolutely beautiful given that the shitty input lag is gone. Yes for me it was existent on 360 AND PS3.

Perhaps its the TV I was using or whatnot but I do know that if I popped in Bad Company 2 it was heaven in terms of smoothness of controls, especially when making small, tight aiming and tracking. In BF3 I had to constantly tap left/right instead of a smooth hold on the analog because of that shitty lag....I hated it in BF3 and I think it was a problem in the coding of the game or something of a technical nature.

I iamgine, and given how smooth the 360 version is, the XB1 cannot be worse lol....

The PS3 version of Battlefield 3 had some pretty shitty input lag going on when it was first revealed.

 

[dorkimoe]

I'm just assuming that lag is due to them hiring some of the kill zone 2 devs

 

[helvetica bold]

How are you still around?

I'm kidding, what's your problem?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Well of course he had noting good to say about the X1, this is NeoGaF.

Why even say this? Go somewhere else if all you want is opinions that are in line with yours. Accept it and move on.

I'm kidding, what's your problem?

Putting a smiley doesn't invalidate the words. Why even bring it up? I'm not bothered but all I can do is read plain English and take it at face value. If you were joking then so be it.

I don't think the game will be like this at release and this is likely an older build.

 

[Tabular]

I doubt that lag will be in the final version of the game.

This. Nothing to see here folks.

 

[SuperD77]

there is no reported lag issue

Bad phrasing on my part, I meant the lag the OP was referencing in his post, as many others have stated there are all sorts of reasons that lag could be occurring.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

I'm kidding, what's your problem?

Taking passive-aggressive potshots at NeoGAF seems a little juvenile, even if it was in jest.

 

[Elios83]

At this point I think it's better to wait until these next gen consoles and their launch games are out.
It's really hard to get a proper idea right now, developers are struggling to meet really tight deadlines while quickly polishing their games as much as they can. They simply don't have the time to stop and focus on making polished demos for these events hence we're still having games running on devkits or worse just PCs while the specific versions are being worked on internally.
Also it takes time to judge a controller, it should be tested with different games in different genres...clearly something that can't be done right now.
Still people have the right to express their first impressions but take them for what they are.

 

[MaulerX]

From the DF lag article.

Methodology for measuring gameplay lag is remarkably straightforward and was first put forward by Neversoft co-founder Mick West in this Gamasutra feature, which combined the explanation of his techniques with measurements for a number of the most popular video games. Getting a very close reading really is very simple: stick a camera capable of recording at 60FPS in front of a monitor and record the gameplay while getting the controller in the same shot. West used a Canon digicam to do the deed, while I went for a Kodak Zi6 for its cheapness and 720p60 HD capabilities. Once you've recorded your clips, simply count the frames between the button press and the resulting action on-screen. As each frame remains on-screen for 16.67ms, simply multiply that by the number of frames and - boom - that's your latency.

Of course there are complications to the basic theory. LCD displays have lag of their own. Processing and scaling can take anything up to five frames depending on how aged and decrepit your flatscreen is. West's solution was ingenious: get a baseline measurement using a CRT screen (no latency there) and use the same measurement to factor out the lag of your flatscreen. With that in mind, I was able to see that my old, but still brilliant, Dell 2405FPW lags to the tune of three frames (50ms!) running at 720p, and two frames at 1080p (not surprising really as 1080p is far closer to the screen's native 1920x1200 resolution). Nice screen, pretty awful latency.

So unless he was using a phone capable of recording at 60fps, this was flawed to begin with?

 

[PAULINK]

These controller impressions are killing me. Looks like I will have to make the drive up to austin after all, I need to test this thing out before I drop $500 on this sucker.

 

[Chobel]

So unless he was using a phone capable of recording at 60fps, this was flawed to begin with?

It's flawed when you use the recorded video to measure the latency time. However the latency is there.

 

[ambar_hitman]

I say that guy is biased. No way can MS mess up the controller.