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Billionaire claims enough signatures for ballot measure to split CA into 6 states
- Thread starter ivysaur12
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rokkerkory
Member
how does silicon valley benefit from this?
I'll just leave this here too:
Well looks like my guess was pretty acurrate. Eitherway, stupid idea no matter which party is pushing the agenda.
Starfish Hero
Member
This may hurt Republicans in the legislative branch, but this would be a huge win in the executive. Instead of California being a near default 55 electoral college votes for Democrats, Republicans now have a shot at all but Silicon Valley and West California.
ab.aeterno
Member
Why? Given the majority opposition to important social issues of their times, I'm less inclined to believe in the power of direct democracy to be fair and representative, not more.
All of their tax dollars would stay local instead of going to poor people in other parts of the state.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
They should void democracy if this thing were to somehow miraculously get enough votes.
Isolating the most wealthy and valuable parts of No. Cal into it's own state called Silicon Valley, where all those wealthy people can dictate their own laws? Yeah, that doesn't benefit them at all.
BertramCooper
Banned
I'm fine with voter initiatives, but the minimum signature requirement should be a helluva lot higher than roughly 1/40th of the state's total population.
Imagine if our Constitution allowed federal ballot initiatives and it only required about 8 million signatures to get on the ballot.
Fury Sense
Member
This is all a big scheme about Silicon Valley. All the other lines were drawn willy-nilly. Would be great for SV as a tech and economical hub, but would screw all the other regions that currently depend it.
In the first week.
Well, to be more correct, "Libertarians".
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
I'll just leave this here too:
Doesn't look suspicious at all
shaowebb
Member
Bucket?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Call me jaded, but I'd like to believe that people have what they deserve in a system that allows more direct forms of democracy, even if that means voting sitty stuff every few weeks.
Of course, for direct democracy to work as it should, the population needs to be properly educated.
I agree to an extent, but if you've seen the drawn maps, they seem to be drawn in a very particular way that manages to turn the hugely democratic state in to 3 clearly democratic states, 2 clearly republican states, and 1 swing vote.
Edit: I see those maps have been posted.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
I don't see this as a pro-Republican move. Silicon Valley is a very liberal place (see chart on last page). It's more of a pro-silicon valley move.
Either way, Cali should probably be multiple states. 6 is way too many, though. The entire state seems to hinge on the whims of one the west coast, which is stupid and a shame. It'd be good to split it up, if you think about it. Let the new non-west coast states do what they need to do to get their shit together without having to worry about appeasing the folks over in Silicon Valley.
I don't live in CA, so I don't really know what's best for the state. The prosperity gap in CA is a huge issue, though.
Either way, Cali should probably be multiple states. 6 is way too many, though. The entire state seems to hinge on the whims of one the west coast, which is stupid and a shame. It'd be good to split it up, if you think about it. Let the new non-west coast states do what they need to do to get their shit together without having to worry about appeasing the folks over in Silicon Valley.
I don't live in CA, so I don't really know what's best for the state. The prosperity gap in CA is a huge issue, though.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The problem is that you can't just secede or split by ballot measure. The borders and such are done by the Federal government, not the state government.
OrlanisWorks
Banned
Them repubs want them some electoral votes out of California finally.
It'll never pass and it is a terrible, harmful initiative.
PhantomFear
Member
So let's pretend that there's even a 1 in a billion chance that this passes...
Won't the federal government just say no and that will be the end of it?
Edit:
Yeah, this.
Won't the federal government just say no and that will be the end of it?
Edit:
Yeah, this.
Yes.
Yes.
ab.aeterno
Member
Which is arguably why direct democracy doesn't work and why it's often not used. Relying on an educated, fair, tolerant society is for when human nature shows we are terrible at being all of the above. I shudder to think of the state of the US had civil rights, interracial marriage, gay marriage, and other social movements been at the mercy of the democratic mob.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
To give a little more background, Draper's plan is a straight up impossibility regardless of whether he spends 10 million or 10 billion on it. The creation of new states requires, under Article IV of the federal Constitution, the consent both of the legislatures of the involved states and of Congress. The chance of Congress approving this plan is zero.
Draper is fucking rich as fuck and when you have that much money, you can put practically anything on the ballot by putting all your resources into getting signatures (which means nothing).
Draper is fucking rich as fuck and when you have that much money, you can put practically anything on the ballot by putting all your resources into getting signatures (which means nothing).
BertramCooper
Banned
For direct democracy to work as it should, a government should require a compelling number of citizen petitioners in order for an issue to make it on the ballot.
Roughly two percent of California citizens is not a compelling amount.
DUFFMCWALIN
Member
Nope its not. People in SF like to think they are Nor Cal though.
Unknown One
Member
I live in the central valley and this would screw us over so bad.
Walter White Walker
Member
Even if it (insanely) passed it still doesn't matter - you don't get to just make your own state(s) and the federal government and 49 other states have to go along with it.
To Far Away Times
Member
I'll just leave this here too:
Might as well just make Orange County a state and give the republicans two more senate seats while they're at it.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Well, Switzerland does it ok, even with the random racist belch here and there. Granted, their population is highly educated, which is something that California would need in order to improve the quality of its own system.
Switzerland makes it with 100,000 signatures out of a population of 8 million, give it or take. Would that be ok with you?
DUFFMCWALIN
Member
Its not a bad idea as far as Direct Democracy goes, but you have to deal with the shit that comes with it sadly.
gutter_trash
Banned
I'll just leave this here too:
GOP's out to gerrymander new states into their favor, lol
Splitting the state up is not going to solve that. California is an interconnected economy that benefits a huge number of other states in addition to California itself, and throwing down state lines to force a re-negotiation of things like water rights, irrigation sources, food production and exports would just create new and more opportunity for the corrupt elements of government.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Even assuming, for the sake of argument, everyone in California voted for this and the Congress decided it was a fantastic idea, its still likely illegal:
Article IV, Section 3 reads: "New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress."
The initiative process is not the legislature of the states concerned, moreover, its questionable whether "states concerned" means "the state of California as presented right now," or "each of the 6 proposed states."
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