Why not? I agree 500k would be an enormous success for XB1, but 1m worldwide for PS4 in a month is about what would be expected given their production, the only reason it has been lower in Jan and Feb is due to air freighting units during december cutting down 2014's supply, even so they sold 1.8m in 2 months.
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Bonus Round - Is Time Running Out For Xbox?
- Thread starter iNvid02
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Why not? I agree 500k would be an enormous success for XB1, but 1m worldwide for PS4 in a month is about what would be expected given their production, the only reason it has been lower in Jan and Feb is due to air freighting units during december cutting down 2014's supply, even so they sold 1.8m in 2 months.
if sony are supply constrained, and they are producing 1m units a month, then doesn't that suggest that they are selling 1m a month? Not in the US, obviously, but worldwide. It is really a question of how much stock will Sony divert to the US/UK for March to compete with Titanfall? And will they air freight any in to secure that, risking low availability in April?
BruiserBear
Banned
You're not putting forth conspiracy theories, but the press is manufacturing hype for the game....... :/
The game is fucking cool. It may not appeal to you, but tens of millions of people went ape shit over Modern Warfare 1/2, and in case you didn't know, the same people who made those games are making this one. I was immediately impressed when I saw the trailer at E3, and knew I had to play the game. Was my hype manufactured, or was it just a reaction to a game that has an awesome art style, fast mech and parkour gameplay (which is very unique), and it's being made by developers with an awesome pedigree?
I wish people could just accept that for some people, maybe not you, but some people love the look and vibe of this game. It has nothing to do with secret meetings and under table deals to make people like it. The reviews threads will unfortunately be full of this nonsense, because people are just waiting to cry when it gets good scores.
PhantomFear
Member
Included in the 1.8M are 350K from the Japan launch. So the number is more like 1.5M, or 750K per month. If they really flood the market with units, then maybe they'll come close to hitting a million. I just don't think the demand is that strong, even if the supply is there. Most people who are dying to play Infamous probably already have a PS4.
But then again, who knows?
His point was people don't want to double dip on services. So in other words, if you have PS+ most people wouldn't double dip on Xbox live, and vice versa. He brought up his own counter point by saying he subscribes to both Netflix and Amazon prime. Though he said he doesn't use Amazon prime for streaming, so to him it isn't double dipping.
That's like asking how the Wii differentiates itself from the PS3 when that had the Move (although I'm aware there was also a time gap). Having peripherals bundled absolutely makes a difference. Although many here don't care for the Kinect's offerings it already has far more application than the Playstation camera does. Both in terms of OS functionality and software use (Kinect Sports Rivals, Kinect Fitness, Zoo Tycoon etc).
I'm still not convinced they would be better off removing Kinect to get the price down, rather than eating the cost to lower the price with it in the box. Having the PS4 and Xbox One compared directly as standalone consoles is never going to favour the X1, so I think they should focus on making the Kinect more appealing. Either way though, the price gap is going to need to be addressed sooner rather than later.
mullet2000
Member
Seriously, what's with the press constantly doing this?
I have nothing against Titanfall, I'm buying the shit out of the game, but it's....it's really weird that press constantly refers to it as an exclusive like that.
Edit: ^^^^ Context.
Early PS3 gave us LAIR...
Without the cell or could have gotten less crappy ports, more games and a lower price without losing the exclusives. Purely hardware wise the 360 was superior.
Early PS3 gave us LAIR...
With Keighley you should say "press".
No, Purely Hardware wise the PS3 was far superior, not just in gaming Power, but also in regards to Blu ray, Built in Wifi, USB ports, originally Bigger HDD's, user replaceable HDD's,
In regards to ease of programming, the x360 was far superior.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Time Running Out For Xbox?
Xbox's slow start!?!?!?!?!
WTF!?!?!
Boy these clickbait articles get more and more ludicrous.
Just because Xbox One hasn't pulled PS4 numbers thus far doesn't mean it is any sort of trouble, nor is it having a "slow start"?
The console has been VERY successful. Just because it hasn't been as successful as its competitor doesn't mean its in dire straights.
People seem to forget that the original Xbox lagged WELL behind PS2. Did that kill the system? No!
Xbox's slow start!?!?!?!?!
WTF!?!?!
Boy these clickbait articles get more and more ludicrous.
Just because Xbox One hasn't pulled PS4 numbers thus far doesn't mean it is any sort of trouble, nor is it having a "slow start"?
The console has been VERY successful. Just because it hasn't been as successful as its competitor doesn't mean its in dire straights.
People seem to forget that the original Xbox lagged WELL behind PS2. Did that kill the system? No!
This isn't really just a media issue though. It mostly boils down to people only seeing the X1 and PS4 as the main contenders. The Wii U gets basically no third party love anyway, and the PC is often seen as a separate market, much like handhelds or whatever.
Take this post for example:
See what's in the PS4 list? Yup, Warframe. That's not exactly an exclusive either, but it is often treated as one because it's not playable on what is deemed the PS4 main opponent. You will probably notice also that nobody else so far had contested his choice of including it on his list, even if they disagreed with the post in general.
lol... "Oops!"
Dude, calm down. There is no article.
Your memory must be bad. Microsoft dropped support for the original Xbox like a rock just to get a year headstart on Sony with the 360.
mullet2000
Member
Oh, I'm aware that PC is typically seen as a separate market. But....this is on 360 too. Different situation. Also I understand mistakes on the part of random posters more than people from the press who should (and do) know this shit. Obviously I'm putting to much faith in the games press here I guess but it's their job to know this stuff.
I like you. That's the Schumpeterian view on competition if I remember my history of economic thought. Neoclassical economics dictates that the number of players will determine the competitive environment, but Schumpeterian view on competition dictates that it's the threat of entry which is important in determining behavior not the presence or absence of it.
History has shown us that if it's not Sega, it's Sony, it's Microsoft. Next in line could be Valve, it could be Apple, or any number of these software/consumer electronics firms who have invest in a lot of Research and Development. If firms see an opportunity, they'll capitalize. Their number one barrier to entry would be the high fixed costs and R&D costs, but most of these companies in this industry would have invested heavily in R&D anyway.
SwiftDeath
Member
You are forgetting that Chinese New Year started Jan 31st and likely cut production in China off completely for 2 weeks.
That was among the reasons it was so supply constrained for February
Pach had some good insights, but Garnett was talking all kinds of stupid shit. Indies don't care about Kinect, and they aren't going to care if Microsoft tells them "how cool it is!" :lol What is this?
Oh and the reason there's not as much perceived hype for Infamous isn't because Sony dropped the ball on marketing, it's because a certain section of the industry hasn't been mad riding its balls like a certain other game's. Unless that counts as marketing.
Oh and the reason there's not as much perceived hype for Infamous isn't because Sony dropped the ball on marketing, it's because a certain section of the industry hasn't been mad riding its balls like a certain other game's. Unless that counts as marketing.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
It still didn't kill the Xbox.
Yes they launched in 2005 with the 360. However, Sony could've easily launched in 2005 right along with them. They just got cocky and arrogant. However, the Xbox still enjoyed a good life.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Don't forget Kinect Sports was originally scheduled for launch, and was supposed to be the title to showcase Kinect. It got delayed so it could be polished. It left a hole in the Kinects game library for launch, but at least that's better than having a not polished game which arguably would have been worse for the perception of Kinect at launch.
Syphon Filter
Banned
Eating that cost is going to hurt them for profit. Investors are alread pissed as it is. kinect is not interesting to people as we can see with sales. they will be better off without it and then keep their exclusives going.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Article, Video, its the same stuff.
The point is people are blowing this whole thing WAY out of proportion.
Sony doesn't have any kind of humongous lead just yet. The race is still VERY competitive and VERY early.
These consoles aren't even 6 months old for crying out loud.
LOL! I had totally forgotten the 360 version as I made that post... shit, it's working!
You probably are expecting too much from the gaming press though, it's not like historically you've been given plenty of reasons to have high expectations.
Michael Pachter is totally delusional about the state of Xbox One on shelves on January. One person's anecdotes may be meaningless (I've seen stacks in every store I've been to see the middle of December), but once you amplify it with the people who track these sorts of things more intimately, the countless round the country reports, the stock trackers all showing consistent in-stock for XBO, ebay prices... there is a fire.
I mean it was not a high demand product in January, and there was plenty of stock
I mean it was not a high demand product in January, and there was plenty of stock
Randolph Freelander
Member
Eating away the price difference while leaving Kinect in the box only works if Sony decides to let them. Microsoft could certainly outlast Sony in a price war, they have the alternate revenue streams to do so, but that doesn't mean they have the appetite for it. It's far better on the bottom line to get Kinect out of the box, sell it to those that want it, and be at price parity with PS4 and with the same ability to respond to any move Sony makes.
Xbox One had 3 million sales during November & December because of Hardcore Xbox fans. Ever since after December was over, the sales for this system have been slowing down to a crawl.
The fact that Microsoft had to bundle the biggest game that they paid "exclusivity" for their newer console just 4 MONTHS after they officially released it should be very telling that Microsoft isn't very happy with the sales that they're getting for this console.
If you watched the video, what are you complaining about? Or are you just yelling at clouds?
If this is just about the title of the video, I still think you're overreacting.
PhantomFear
Member
From most recent estimates, it seems that Sony has a 50% sales lead worldwide over Microsoft. 6M vs 4M. That's pretty large given that it's only been a few months.
neurosisxeno
Member
That was actually Nvidia. Microsoft signed a really bad deal with Nvidia--which heavily favored Nvidia--to produce the GPU's for the original Xbox, and Nvidia milked it for a ton of profit then told Microsoft to shove off because they were done making parts for them.
Prototype Viktor
Member
it's weird he's implying that it was nearly sold out in January when it only sold under 150k consoles. What does he think MS's excuse for lack of supply in his scenario. That they were rushing to fill orders in the other 12 countries¿ Or they just straight stop production once January hit
mullet2000
Member
You're being indoctrinated!
But yeah. Like you not realizing it's coming to 360 is understandable. You're just some dude (dudette?). But I don't really get how some who's JOB is to know this stuff makes those mistakes constantly. But yeah, games media.
True. if this game were releasing for PS4 it would probably sell like gangbusters and the hype would be completely out of control. It really is too bad it's console exclusive, but hey I'll be playing it on PC at least.
famousmortimer
Banned
I'm talking about the importance of the month. Titanfall taking off is the only thing that can carry the XB1 at this point. They know they need to counter-program against that.
As for sales... yeah, who knows what month is the most. My point was more about the importance of coming out of march as the dominant and "cool" system.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I was watching this and was agreeing with everything pachter was saying
If they're not willing to do that, then I feel they may as well forget about remaining competitive at this point. Removing the Kinect will only ever bring them to price parity with the PS4, and that's not likely to be enough with the spec differences. They'd either need to be noticeably cheaper (equals losing money) or have an added value proposition (equals losing money). Whichever route they pick from now, losing money is basically guaranteed to happen. They'll need to make the money back elsewhere, and if we're talking $400 Kinectless X1 versus $400 PS4, I simply don't see much opportunity for that to happen.
Dude.
That said, I did know about the 360 version. Hell, I was just reading the posts about its positions on the Amazon charts. It's just been pushed aside so completely that it falls out of my mind roughly 10 seconds after it is last mentioned lol.
You're right though, it does invalidate the Warframe comparison, heh.
travisbickle
Member
I was watching this and agreeing with everything pachter was saying
Only because he changed his opinion from 6 months ago when he said Skype would be the killer app.
Sony didn't launch in 2005 because there was no reason to. The PS2 had plenty of life left in it, as it demonstrated by outselling the 360 and PS3 in the US nearly almost every month until the end 2007.
Syphon Filter
Banned
yea i was surprised,i was like "didnt he say skype matters".
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'd say just like WiiU numbers its first Jan One numbers should be giving market watchers pause.
Even adding an extra week puts it at some absurdly low level. Less interest than for PS3 even. One of the highest starts in the industries history means very very little if interest flatlines.
Sakura
Member
Doesn't it though? I thought the PS4 was above 6 million and XBO below 4? And if sales over the next while are similar to what they were in January, then the gap will only get wider.
I think Skype would have mattered if the Xbox One's wake up actually was instant, and the machine could receive a call from standby. There are quite a few areas in which the additional functions of the X1 could have been great, if they weren't being crippled by some of the more standard console design limitations.
I have no clue. I mean it's even more obvious when you contrast to PS4's situation. Some people actually thought PS4 would sell less then XBO because it was never on shelves, but people didn't realize they were on shelves it's just they were selling out immediately upon arriving there.
Yeah and in my opinion we should all be watching what the PS4 does very closely in the next few months, no guarantees it holds on.
But specific to January, Michael Pachter must have been in some special part of the country, but nothing reflects that view. Microsoft had plentiful stock, and sold 141k. It was a paltry number by any standard and it wasn't due to low stock. They were absolutely everywhere.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Nobody cares about the spec difference, it's fodder for insular message boards. Similarly, nobody cares about this particular feature difference. (Yes, yes, in both situations, feel free to substitute "nobody" with "not enough.") The price difference is going to be what kills Microsoft, and as long as they leave Kinect in the box, there's no (realistic) move Microsoft can make that Sony cannot counter. Nobody at Microsoft has the appetite to bleed money with Xbox One.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
At the moment Amazon can't keep up with demand of the PS4 which is selling at a rate of between 30 - 40 units every 15 minutes (sometimes more). For the first time since the launch, they've warned people it could take a couple of days to process the orders. March is going to be an interesting month. The PS4 is currently number 1.
Suprised Pachter doesn't think we'll a sku without kinect until 2015. Imo it is absolutely essential for them to make it to price parity this year if they are to have any chance of winning the gen and ditching the camera is the only realistic way I can see them doing that. If they don't I think Sony will hit 20 million before they hit 10 which would be a total disaster for them.
R_thanatos
Member
That certainly wasn't exactly how i understood it... if that was his point he really need to express this point better.
infiniteheteroskdasticity
Member
The points made were all valid. The fundamental flaw with the Xbox One as it is currently sold isn't the hardware's capabilities vs the competition or even the outright price point, it is the lack of value that it brings at said price point. I hardly need to go through the reasons why (Kinect adding 0 value, weaker hardware and Live Gold being poor value vs PS+). Here's how I think they should fix it
- Make Live Gold a shameless PS+ ripoff. Move media apps outside the paywall and start getting newer games for the Games for Gold scheme. Long term, I think its the increasingly common view that Live is inferior to PS+ that is a bigger danger to the Xbox One than anything else.
- Take Kinect out of the SKU. Who cares if it upsets a few execs who pushed its adoption in the fist place. I know some people like the voice commands but that can be done with a controller mic or even one built into the box. They had three years to demonstrate the technology had an application in console gaming and failed. It is time to move on.
- Both the above should allow them to improve the value proposition without taking a bath on margins and pissing off the board. a cut to $350 should be enough to give Sony a real fight (in the US and UK at least).
- Make Live Gold a shameless PS+ ripoff. Move media apps outside the paywall and start getting newer games for the Games for Gold scheme. Long term, I think its the increasingly common view that Live is inferior to PS+ that is a bigger danger to the Xbox One than anything else.
- Take Kinect out of the SKU. Who cares if it upsets a few execs who pushed its adoption in the fist place. I know some people like the voice commands but that can be done with a controller mic or even one built into the box. They had three years to demonstrate the technology had an application in console gaming and failed. It is time to move on.
- Both the above should allow them to improve the value proposition without taking a bath on margins and pissing off the board. a cut to $350 should be enough to give Sony a real fight (in the US and UK at least).
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Nice. So according to you who anyone who points out Sony's financial woes is an XBox fanboy. You also keep regurgitating the same lines over and over again about XBox investors wanting to get rid of it. Mind naming who they are and what kind of influence they have to actually make that happen?
You don't like Microsoft, in fact you have said multiple times how much you despise them. So of course any comment from you will be as negative as possible. The funny thing is it's the Sony hardcore fans who have kept Vita alive and that system is likely selling far worse than the XBox One has so far. In fact the PS3 had some major growing pains early on as well while Sony did everything they could to keep the bleeding down. They eventually turned things around with major price cuts quite rapidly compared to the XBox 360 and Wii, which put a huge financial burden on Sony. I don't see Microsoft having to sell assets trying to keep the company afloat.
People don't care about specs, but they do care about noticeable visual differences. If this was a PS3 to 360 situation I would agree with you. It isn't though, and reminds me more of the PS1 and Saturn. I remember wanting a Saturn to play all the arcade game conversions, so I took my mother along to the game store. We specifically ask about the Saturn, and immediately the assistant there begins talking us out of it, because of how much the graphics suck comparatively, pointing us to both copies of Tomb Raider running on each machine. It took all the 'individual preference" reasoning in the world to convince my mother to get me the damn Saturn after that lol. If the libraries between the two consoles had been as similar as they are between X1 and PS4, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to persuade her. Just because casual buyers don't have all the information about the two machines, isn't going to stop those facts from influencing their decisions later on. It definitely doesn't help that the PS4 gets a sizeable headstart due to the current price.
Right now I can't think of many ways MS could try to convince people to pick up a $400 Xbox One without the Kinect over an equivalent $400 PS4. Maybe later games like Halo, a new Gears, Quantum Break etc are enough to get people on board, but I feel like they are equally countered by Sony's offerings, putting us back at square one. I honestly think they would have a better chance at selling the device based on the other functionalities it can offer at the moment, but are maybe not enough to overcome the price difference. Take the Kinect out and Snap, Skype, Kinect Fitness, One Guide and whatever they're planning to do with NFL all become pointless, whilst even things like Twitch and Upload Studio lose some of the advantages they have against the PS4 equivalents. It just doesn't make sense to me.