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[jmood88]

Shout out to RedSwirl for providing the link

Most people, designers and writers included, get their mental image of historical periods from film. This is normal and expected. Unfortunately, Hollywood has a strong tendency to "white-wash" history. The point of a historical film frequently isn't to be true to its source -- it's to sell tickets. Remaining "true to history" often gets booted in favor of casting already-popular caucasian stars who are sure to bump up box office profits on name recognition alone. After all, a producer once joked to me, who would go see a movie about Noah's Ark if it starred a bunch of no-name Arab actors? The recent controversy over Ridley Scott's Exodus also reflects this issue; the more diverse the cast, the more difficult it is for a film to obtain funding, so we tend to see historical movies trend towards white, straight male-centric narratives.

The great thing about game development as a field, though, is that we aren't Hollywood. We don't cast real people in games (barring a few exceptions -- I'm lookin' at you, Beyond) and "star power" is a nonexistent concern. Our protagonists, our characters, can be anyone.

In fact, most historical video games feature some kind of fantasy element, which should theoretically mean creating a diverse cast is a zillion times easier; after all, if there are elves and monsters, orcs and demons, naturally there will be people of color or genderqueer characters, right?

And yet...

Let's take a pretty obvious recent example: The Order: 1886. The game's characters are intended to be modern recreations of Arthurian Knights of the Round Table; the game's portal on Playstation.com describes it as taking place in a "painstakingly recreated Victorian-Era London."

While it's not illogical that a cast pulled from Victorian London would be all-white, it's also a disappointing choice, given two factors: one, London was one of the largest port cities of that era, with a multitude of citizens from all over the globe -- and two: even the original Arthurian source material featured a more diverse cast. Sir Morien is described as being dark-skinned: "He was all black, even as I tell ye: his head, his body, and his hands were all black, saving only his teeth. His shield and his armour were even those of a Moor, and black as a raven." Sir Palamedes and his two brothers, Safir and Segwarides, are three Knights of the Round historically described as being Saracens (Arabs).

www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KatieChiron...cally_Accuratequot__Diversity_in_Elsinore.php

I have always found it both irritating and funny that developers (and fans) will preach about the historical accuracy of a game while having nothing to say about the lack of diversity among the characters in that game. It has also been extremely annoying to see people willing to accept all kinds of ahistorical and fanciful creatures in a game but blanch at the thought of non-white people populating that world. A person on this forum actually argued that werewolves were more historically accurate in Victorian London than black people, which is the kind of utter insanity that is far too common around here every time non-white characters are discussed.

And if you want to ask why it matters that a diverse cast is present in games (and movies), make sure you read the section of this article about Hollywood. The vast majority of people get their idea of history from popular culture and, in much of popular culture, non-white contributors to history are all but erased, which leads to people seriously arguing that black people were so non-existent in Victorian London that the presence of a fictional monster is more realistic.

 

[Stereogatari]

One thing that should be considered though is that the creator of a work should be free to put whatever cast of characters they want.

The "werewolves are allowed, but no blacks" argument is certainly silly though, though obviously the black demographic of London was smaller in that time period than it is now.

I agree with your assessment of "white-washing" of history and characters in general.

One thing that annoys me is Uncharted 2's portrayal of Turks as brown skinned, when many Turks are as white as Drake himself is, but as far as I remember none of the Turkish guards were the same skin colour as Drake...

 

[Kinthalis]

Since when was the Exodus historical?

 

[AmuroChan]

There were definitely some black NPC's in the game if I remembered correctly. And one of the key characters whom you spend a lot of time with in the 2nd half of the game is Indian.

 

[SystemBug]

There were definitely some black NPC's in the game if I remembered correctly. And one of the key characters whom you spend a lot of time with in the 2nd half of the game is Indian.

But why couldn't one of the main characters be Indian?

 

[Orayn]

Since when was the Exodus historical?

It's likely not historical, but that doesn't change the fact that it's supposed to be a story about Hebrews and Egyptians.

 

[SolidSnakex]

But why couldn't one of the main characters be Indian?

She is.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

They didn't actually play The Order did they? There are major characters that aren't white.

 

[Lime]

It's a really great post. We had a similar discussion at the end of last year in this thread. (which I also bumped today with that blog post)

 

[RoboPlato]

There are multiple minority characters important to the plot in The Order and they'll definitely be even more prominent in the sequel.

 

[jmood88]

One thing that should be thought of though is that the creator of the work should be free to put whatever cast of characters they want.

I'm not denying the "werewolves are allowed, but no blacks" is silly though (though obviously the black demographic of London was smaller in that time period than it is now).

I'm tired of this argument. No one is demanding that developers make a rainbow cast for every game but the typical excuses for why their casts aren't diverse are just that: excuses that aren't based on fact. The "artistic integrity" argument is especially annoying coming from people who post on a forum that doesn't give a damn about artistic integrity or developer intent for anything that isn't related to representation. There are complaints ranging from the black bars (to use The Order example again), gameplay balancing, physics, art-style, etc but as soon as you bring up diversity, people want to yell about how we shouldn't be dictating our tastes and wants to developers.

 

[AlexBasch]

But why couldn't one of the main characters be Indian?

She is.

Hahaha. Damn.

 

[pinkurocket]

Reminds me of people complaining Frozen isn't historically accurate because everyone is white.

 

[jiggles]

I don't see the logic in saying videogames are different from Hollywood's funding- and demographic-driven character ethnicity because it uses fictional actors.

 

[Kinthalis]

It's likely not historical, but that doesn't change the fact that it's supposed to be a story about Hebrews and Egyptians.

It's not "likely not historical" It is absolutely a-historical, for a number of reasons, also it plays very fast and loose with depictions of cultures at that time.

I guess I can still agree that, yeah, regardless of it's historicity, casting pretty much only white Europeans, instead of more actors of northern egyptian or mediterranean descent is a bit weird.

 

[AmuroChan]

But why couldn't one of the main characters be Indian?

I would argue that Lakshmi is as much a main character as just about anyone else besides Galahad. And it looks like

Spoiler

she's going to be big part of the story

if a sequel happens.

 

[Xando]

If you played the order you know that two of the most important characters in the game are minorities while having a historically accurate origin.

 

[Skellig Gra]

The Order would have been better with Idris Elba.

 

[Toxi]

Two of the major characters in The Order 1886 are Indian.

The "It's not historically accurate" defense is bullshit and few of the people who use it actually give a shit about historical accuracy, but The Order 1886 isn't an example of a whitewashed cast.

 

[gelf]

One thing that should be considered though is that the creator of a work should be free to put whatever cast of characters they want.

Bare in mind though that its unlikely many big money games are the creators unedited vision. They will be focus grouped to death and any diversity consider potentially off putting could be toned down or removed. That argument of respecting the developers vision can go both ways.

 

[Crossing Eden]

But why couldn't one of the main characters be Indian?

One of the main characters is Indian, and maybe not so coincidentally her main base happens to be near a port.

 

[Handy Fake]

I'm tired of this argument. No one is demanding that developers make a rainbow cast for every game but the typical excuses for why their casts aren't diverse are just that: excuses that aren't based on fact. The "artistic integrity" argument is especially annoying coming from people who post on a forum that doesn't give a damn about artistic integrity or developer intent for anything that isn't related to representation. There are complaints ranging from the black bars (to use The Order example again), gameplay balancing, physics, art-style, etc but as soon as you bring up diversity, people want to yell about how we shouldn't be dictating our tastes and wants to developers.

Ask Ru from RaD, he might know.

If you mean as the main protagonist, I think it's safe to assume that if you think of Victorian London, you think of a white, Anglo-Saxon male sporting a fine moustache and unwilling gait.

I sometimes think these things are read into far too deeply.

 

[SystemBug]

She is.

So main she couldn't be part of any of the promotional material?

 

[Stereogatari]

Bare in mind though that its unlikely many big money games are the creators unedited vision. They will be focused grouped to death and any diversity consider potentially off putting could be toned down or removed. That argument of respecting the developers vision can go both ways.

In that case then I argue on the side of diversity.

 

[nynt9]

Using The Order as an example is especially stupid and it's clear they didn't play the game because one of the main characters in the game is Indian. The devs didn't put that character in the marketing material because spoilers.

 

[captainpat]

Reminds me of people complaining Frozen isn't historically accurate because everyone is white.

And not because it takes place in a non-existent fictional place and has ice witches, trolls, and talking snowmen?

 

[Kinthalis]

Reminds me of people complaining Frozen isn't historically accurate because everyone is white.

I just watched this last night. I cried

 

[jmood88]

If you played the order you know that two of the most important characters in the game are minorities while having a historically accurate origin.

And yet, all the marketing material featured nothing but white characters.

 

[Kinthalis]

Using The Order as an example is especially stupid and it's clear they didn't play the game because one of the main characters in the game is Indian. The devs didn't put that character in the marketing material because spoilers.

Two, actually.

 

[SolidSnakex]

So main she couldn't be part of any of the promotional material?

They didn't reveal multiple character that you met throughout the story, just like any other game.

Spoiler

Part of the advertising was making you think that the entire game would be played with Galahad and his group. Probably less than halfway through the game he splits off from them and pretty much the rest of the game is played alongside Lakshmi. You get to know her better than any of the three characters that you initially start out with.

 

[nynt9]

And yet, all the marketing material featured nothing but white characters.

Because it's a story spoiler.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

So main she couldn't be part of any of the promotional material?

Is it common practice to market spoilers?

 

[Xando]

So main she couldn't be part of any of the promotional material?

And yet, all the marketing material featured nothing but white characters.

Not unless they'd give away huge spoilers before release.

Did you even play the game ?

 

[Crossing Eden]

So main she couldn't be part of any of the promotional material?

Considering her involvement is a major spoiler yes. I'm all for diversity. After all, one of my favorite game series is AC, which almost always has a diverse cast of characters based on the location. But in this case, the Order was not wrong. You should always be informed about a game before criticizing.

 

[RoboPlato]

And yet, all the marketing material featured nothing but white characters.

Because anything with the minority characters would be a spoiler. They have more screentime, development, and relevance than much of the white cast.

 

[jmood88]

Ask Ru from RaD, he might know.

If you mean as the main protagonist, I think it's safe to assume that if you think of Victorian London, you think of a white, Anglo-Saxon male sporting a fine moustache and unwilling gait.

I sometimes think these things are read into far too deeply.

The whole reason you think of that is, as I said, the only people presented in popular portrayals of that era are white males with big mustaches. That is why representation in popular culture matters.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Using The Order as an example is especially stupid and it's clear they didn't play the game because one of the main characters in the game is Indian. The devs didn't put that character in the marketing material because spoilers.

Now I'm really curious how a character couldn't be revealed in marketing materials (in a new IP) because it would spoil the game somehow. Spoil me, please!

 

[aly]

So main she couldn't be part of any of the promotional material?

And yet, all the marketing material featured nothing but white characters.

I dunno, they seemed pretty keen on avoiding spoilers in the marketing.

 

[Kinthalis]

And yet, all the marketing material featured nothing but white characters.

Well, revealing them would be kind of a spoiler.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Wasn't The Order written by someone of East Indian heritage? And didn't it have two East Indian women as supporting cast?

Either the writer of the article didn't play the game or he/she chose an incredibly bad example to use.

 

[Uhyve]

I feel like we get this article every few months now.

In fact, let's see. Yep:

It's Not Historically Accurate! (Eurogamer)

 

[ArkkAngel007]

So main she couldn't be part of any of the promotional material?

You're talking about a game that didn't have much in the way of promotional material. All we knew about were some of the knights and the Elder Lycan. Everything else was somewhat of a big unknown going in.

Her involvement is also rather spoilerish, so it'd be really difficult to market.

 

[injurai]

People should be reminded that the ancient world was pretty diverse with the interaction of peoples of different cultures. It should also be noted that people that some would see as the same, they themselves would see as world's different.

I don't think there is an obligation to be overly revisionist. But being revisionist to make what is to be an already fictional imagining, more inclusive to others who would also like to idealize a time period. I think that's a good thing. It's also good if games were just more diverse in general.

 

[Stereogatari]

The whole reason you think of that is, as I said, the only people presented in popular portrayals of that era are white males with big mustaches. That is why representation in popular culture matters.

isn't that image an accurate example of what the vast majority of men from that era of the UK looked like?

 

[jmood88]

Wasn't The Order written by someone of East Indian heritage? And didn't it have two East Indian women as supporting cast?

Either the writer of the article didn't play the game or he/she chose an incredibly bad example to use.

No, she didn't, it's just that fans of the game are choosing the wrong point to harp on and want to defend the game at all costs.

 

[nynt9]

Now I'm really curious how a character couldn't be revealed in marketing materials (in a new IP) because it would spoil the game somehow. Spoil me, please!

Spoiler

Galahad betrays the order because they are too strict to act and refuse to believe him and works with the leaders of the resistance, two Indian women, for the entire second half of the game

 

[onQ123]

 

[Crossing Eden]

And yet, all the marketing material featured nothing but white characters.

None of the marketing of the game goes past the halfway point of the game aside from very very small glimpses.

No, she didn't, it's just that fans of the game are choosing the wrong point to harp on and want to defend the game at all costs.

I can't speak for everyone else here, but please go through my post history, the last thing you'll see is me "defend the game at all costs." Being informed about a game's story characters when it's being poorly used as an example is not defending at all costs. Especially when the criticism is coming from those who're clearly uninformed. Whenever I criticize a game I always try to be as informed as possible.

 

[Mael]

Fun little fact I wasn't really interested in the Order or anything and this little quibble about no black people at all because 'it's not historically accurate' made my interest in the game drop even more (think from 11% it dropped to 9%).
I was similarly totally uninterested in another steampunky game Code STEAM till I tried the demo earlier and look at that the 1rst character I come across is a black dude.
And seriously we're talking about a game with Abraham Lincoln spearheading a special unit force against aliens with a dude with a lion head.
The demo was well made enough that my interest was picked, a diverse cast is always better in the same way that a party with clones is really not that much fun.
All I gotta say is fuck your excuses for making a cast whiter than an oscar winning cast, say that it's what the focus group told you or something.
Don't take us for braindead idiot who will swallow everything you say.

 

[jmood88]

None of the marketing of the game goes past the halfway point of the game aside from very very small glimpses.

And none of those small glimpses could've included characters that weren't white?