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[titiklabingapat]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-electric-vehicle-subsidies-20170828-htmlstory.html

The bill would also make it faster and easier to get a rebate. Now people purchase a car, apply for a rebate, and wait for a check from the state treasury. The new approach would subtract the rebate amount off the sale price, and the state would send the money to the dealer.

In effect, the plan would operate like regular cash-off dealer incentive programs, except that the state, not the manufacturer, would pick up the tab.

Rebate amounts would be based on the difference in price between an electric compact car and a comparably sized gasoline-powered car, “so that if people really want an electric, price is no longer the issue,” Ting said.

The legislation leaves it up to the Air Resources Board to figure out which cars are comparable, devise a formula and set rebate amounts.

“For argument’s sake, what we have assumed is the price of a long-range, compact EV — in this case we’re using the Chevy Bolt EV as the benchmark — and compare that to an equivalent internal combustion engine car,” Chadima said.

The base price of a Bolt EV is $36,620 while the price of a base Civic is $18,740. Take off $7,500 for the federal government’s EV subsidy and, by Chadima’s estimation, the state would contribute $10,380 to the purchase.

The bill will also allow more rebates if the Federal subsidies end under the Trump administration or if a manufacturer hit the federal limit.

 

[m_shortpants]

This would be great for my commuter car. Unfortunately I live in a condo so no dice.

 

[Delusibeta]

What's the odds of the electric car manufacturers increasing prices in response to this?

 

[Doominated]

I don't think that estimate on a base level civic is going to fly. They'll compare it to a more premium or outfitted model price. No way they're just gunna go "base level compact sedan price" for something like a Bolt or Model 3.

 

[Syriel]

This would be great for my commuter car. Unfortunately I live in a condo so no dice.

If you live in CA, your condo HOA cannot prohibit you from installing a charger in your parking spot. So consider your dice returned.

 

[Starfish Hero]

What's the odds of the electric car manufacturers increasing prices in response to this?

Maybe a little, but they'd probably would be cool with the sales bump. It's not like they're the ones paying out the subsidy.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Lets do it!

 

[Simmins]

What's the odds of the electric car manufacturers increasing prices in response to this?

Low, but for dealers however. . .

(To be honest I don't know if dealers can jack the price of new cars, especially in regards to this.)

 

[Dreams-Visions]

How are the electrical grids looking? When I think of California, rolling blackouts don't feel like they were all that long ago. Is the infrastructure in place to handle a meaningful increase in electric demand?

 

[ZackieChan]

Low, but for dealers however. . .

(To be honest I don't know if dealers can jack the price of new cars, especially in regards to this.)

I'd imagine that whatever dealers do this, word will get out and they'll suffer. Buyers will go elsewhere (other dealers/brands). If they collude on pricing, I believe that's illegal and they'll get in trouble. I don't think it's something to worry about.

 

[Nephtis]

My dream of buying a Tesla is getting closer.

 

[sfedai0]

Musk - "excellent"

 

[Syriel]

How are the electrical grids looking? When I think of California, rolling blackouts don't feel like they were all that long ago. Is the infrastructure in place to handle a meaningful increase in electric demand?

Power companies are whining about needing to increase fees due to solar users not buying enough power.

 

[samn]

Electric cars have many of the same problems as combustion vehicles. They take up too much public space, use huge amounts of energy to transport often just one person around, make neighbourhoods unpleasant places to live and kill and maim both by accident and by those who use them maliciously. Increasingly research is finding they may produce particulate emissions from brake and tyre wear due to their weight.

Don’t waste money subsiding cars even more than they already are. Spend it on public transit and bicycle infrastructure and increase taxes on motoring to reflect the huge costs it represents for society.

 

[Syriel]

Electric cars have many of the same problems as combustion vehicles. They take up too much space, use huge amounts of energy to transport often just one person around, make neighbourhoods unpleasant places to live and kill and maim both by accident and by those who use them maliciously. Increasingly research is finding they may produce particulate emissions from brake and tyre wear due to their weight.

Can't ride a bike (or even walk) across the Bay Bridge.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Yes please.

 

[ezrarh]

Electric cars have many of the same problems as combustion vehicles. They take up too much public space, use huge amounts of energy to transport often just one person around, make neighbourhoods unpleasant places to live and kill and maim both by accident and by those who use them maliciously. Increasingly research is finding they may produce particulate emissions from brake and tyre wear due to their weight.

Don’t waste money subsiding cars even more than they already are. Spend it on public transit and bicycle infrastructure and increase taxes on motoring to reflect the huge costs it represents for society.

This and more. California is a sprawled out mess. If they wanted to really do something, they could take zoning to the state level and allow higher density housing to be built in every city but that actually impacts people so it's not gonna happen.

 

[sarcastor]

Don’t waste money subsiding cars even more than they already are. Spend it on public transit and bicycle infrastructure and increase taxes on motoring to reflect the huge costs it represents for society.

yeah this country is wayyyy into their cars. I don't imagine that will go away anytime soon.

Can't ride a bike (or even walk) across the Bay Bridge.

you can take the bike on bart or the ferry boat?

 

[Syriel]

you can take the bike on bart or the ferry boat?

Not during commute hours.

Don't know about the boat, but that's notsodirect.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Does anyone in the California government ever think about how to pay for anything?

 

[turmoil]

Isn't EV production currently restrained by production of lithium batteries?

 

[PdotMichael]

Electric cars have many of the same problems as combustion vehicles. They take up too much public space, use huge amounts of energy to transport often just one person around, make neighbourhoods unpleasant places to live and kill and maim both by accident and by those who use them maliciously. Increasingly research is finding they may produce particulate emissions from brake and tyre wear due to their weight.

Don’t waste money subsiding cars even more than they already are. Spend it on public transit and bicycle infrastructure and increase taxes on motoring to reflect the huge costs it represents for society.

Well, introducing a CO2 tax for both types of cars and using the money to invest into public infrastructure would be the best way to handle it.

But e-cars are a key industry in California, so lobbying is a thing.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

How are the electrical grids looking? When I think of California, rolling blackouts don't feel like they were all that long ago. Is the infrastructure in place to handle a meaningful increase in electric demand?

Power companies are whining about needing to increase fees due to solar users not buying enough power.

Yes that's true during the daytime but electric cars are primarily charged at night so the infrastructure does need to be improved for that. Both the power generation and distribution systems.

Low, but for dealers however. . .

(To be honest I don't know if dealers can jack the price of new cars, especially in regards to this.)

I'd imagine that whatever dealers do this, word will get out and they'll suffer. Buyers will go elsewhere (other dealers/brands). If they collude on pricing, I believe that's illegal and they'll get in trouble. I don't think it's something to worry about.

If the demand is greater than the supply, all dealers will charge over MSRP. One recent example is the Honda Civic Type R which has an MSRP of $34,000 but most dealers charge $15,000 over.

That's nearly $50,000 for a Honda Civic. In this case, I'd fully expect the subsidy to get abused to shit unless the State puts in some restriction such as not being able to charge over MSRP. Additionally, you can't compare a base electric versus a base gas car as the electric models usually have every option under the sun.

One solution would be that they only offer this subsidy if there is a directly comparable car (such as the Chevy Spark which is $18,000 for the top trim gas engine and $25,000 for the electric). The problem is that a lot of electric cars these days are designed from the ground up to be electric as the packaging is a lot different for a battery versus an engine. Iono it's either going to be complicated or there is going to be a lot of money grifted by the dealerships.

 

[Pixels]

Why can't WA get some love? ;(

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Cool, but I ain't buying shit till cars are fully self driving. Hopfully my 2008 XB lasts another 5 years.

 

[Fedelias]

.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

You're expecting fully self driving consumer cars in only 5 years from now?

Yes?

Should I have said half that?

 

[Fedelias]

Yes?

Should I have said half that?

Ty for the literature, seems I had a misinformed idea of how far off most companies were.

 

[milanbaros]

You're expecting fully self driving consumer cars in only 5 years from now?

It is coming, and fast.

 

[andythinkpad]

I like it, this is basically a fuck you to the pollute all you want states.

If the federal government have shat the bed, the coastal states have to pick up the slack.

 

[lord pie]

... Increasingly research is finding they may produce particulate emissions from brake and tyre wear due to their weight.

Sorry but that sounds like scare mongering nonsense?

Electric cars barely use their brakes as they heavily rely on regenerative breaking, they weigh only moderately more than comparable cars (the model x, which is *huge*, is no heavier than a typical f150) - and how on earth could yearly tire wear produce huge amounts of particulates? Seriously?

 

[samn]

Sorry but that sounds like scare mongering nonsense?

Electric cars barely use their brakes as they heavily rely on regenerative breaking, they weigh only moderately more than comparable cars (the model x, which is *huge*, is no heavier than a typical f150) - and how on earth could yearly tire wear produce huge amounts of particulates? Seriously?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135223101630187X

 

[ClosingADoor]

Electric cars have many of the same problems as combustion vehicles. They take up too much public space, use huge amounts of energy to transport often just one person around, make neighbourhoods unpleasant places to live and kill and maim both by accident and by those who use them maliciously. Increasingly research is finding they may produce particulate emissions from brake and tyre wear due to their weight.

Don't waste money subsiding cars even more than they already are. Spend it on public transit and bicycle infrastructure and increase taxes on motoring to reflect the huge costs it represents for society.

Nobody is going to give up their cars anytime soon if you still need to commute an hour or two every day. Cars also give you a lot of freedom you don't have with public transport. There is a very good reason to spent money on getting people to go to electric vehicles. Even if they are not perfect, it is way better, safer and cleaner.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135223101630187X

Isn't this still saving on exhaust emissions?

 

[Korey]

How much are our taxes gonna go up for this?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

California decided they aren't perpetually bankrupt enough yet?

Alternatively: California decided their residents still aren't paying enough taxes yet?

 

[djplaeskool]

I wish Georgia hadn't thrown out its EV tax credit.

 

[nekkid]

This is great. A real middle finger to Trump.

 

[RuGalz]

eh, I think there are more dire problems to spend the money on. People here aren't going to completely stop buying hybrids or EVs without subsidy.

 

[AndyD]

I don't think that estimate on a base level civic is going to fly. They'll compare it to a more premium or outfitted model price. No way they're just gunna go "base level compact sedan price" for something like a Bolt or Model 3.

Pretty much. The interior technology is vastly different and that's most of the cost over a base model.

 

[WaterAstro]

Hmmm subsidizing based on the difference is weird because people will always pick the cheapest gas car to compare against.

 

[Fulminator]

Where is the money coming from?

 

[Windam]

Where is the money coming from?

The printers that print money for circulation.

 

[gatti-man]

Yes?

Should I have said half that?

If it's on the internet it must be true.

We won't have driverless cars available for the public to buy and use by 2020. You can take that to the bank. The technology existing is one thing but actually getting it approved for use is entirely another.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Electric cars have many of the same problems as combustion vehicles. They take up too much public space, use huge amounts of energy to transport often just one person around, make neighbourhoods unpleasant places to live and kill and maim both by accident and by those who use them maliciously. Increasingly research is finding they may produce particulate emissions from brake and tyre wear due to their weight.

Don’t waste money subsiding cars even more than they already are. Spend it on public transit and bicycle infrastructure and increase taxes on motoring to reflect the huge costs it represents for society.

This is great if you live somewhere where the reliable public transportation. For the rest of us a car is an absolute requirement.

 

[belvedere]

This makes me happy but also a bit miffed as I live in the stone-age Midwest.

Attaboy California.

 

[tokkun]

Where is the money coming from?

The bill says that it will come from cap & trade revenues, however there are several other bills trying to lay claim to that same money, so take it with a big grain of salt. The funding money is fungible and there is no new tax proposed to go along with it, so it is best to think of it in terms of opportunity cost - i.e. the $3B used to fund this project will be $3B less spent on other government programs.

I can see the argument being made that this is more middle class welfare, as poor people aren't buying new cars all that often. It's also rather baffling why such a subsidy is needed now when the backlog on Model 3 preorders is more than a year.

 

[SDCowboy]

California decided they aren't perpetually bankrupt enough yet?

Alternatively: California decided their residents still aren't paying enough taxes yet?

This. This sounds good in theory, unless you actually live in CA and understand it has far more issues it needs to address than this. CA can't even afford to fix the roads, but they're going to subsidize electric cars for people? The only way this is going to get paid for, if it passes, is even more taxes on top of the already absurd amount Californians pay.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

yeah this country is wayyyy into their cars. I don't imagine that will go away anytime soon.

Because a car is needed to have any type of reasonable life if you live anywhere but a major city.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Subsidizing cars is a fools errand. That money would be better spent upgrading the electrical grid and subsidizing solar, wind, geothermal, etc. And also making it more practical for people to use public transportation.

I would vote against this if I was in the California legislature. Electric cars are going to overtake ICE cars in the not too distant future anyway, I don't see the point of this initiative.

 

[WaterAstro]

This. This sounds good in theory, unless you actually live in CA and understand it has far more issues it needs to address than this. CA can't even afford to fix the roads, but they're going to subsidize electric cars for people? The only way this is going to get paid for, if it passes, is even more taxes on top of the already absurd amount Californians pay.

Well, doing anything possible to curb climate change is good. Of course, there is the thought that, in the short term, it really sucks to have to pay more, but in the long term, hopefully California stays habitable. Climate Change is going to dry up California and make it unlivable.