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[hawk2025]

Haha okay?

Why do you some of you guys always feel the need to turn a simple point into an (unnecessary) comparison?

Both MS and Sony are putting money into core games and that will more than likely be even more evident as the upcoming gen progresses.

wh-wh-what?

Heh, funny how 10 years later, the debate for the playstation console vs. the xbox console has flipped flopped.

2003: PS = gameplay Xbox = graphics

2013: Xbox = gameplay PS = graphics

Very interesting change.

This is, literally, an unnecessary comparison you pulled out of nowhere. What the heck is going on here

 

[KingSunIsFree]

Haha okay?

Why do you some of you guys always feel the need to turn a simple point into an (unnecessary) comparison?

Both MS and Sony are putting money into core games and that will more than likely be even more evident as the upcoming gen progresses.

You trying to come off as neutral isn't working In this thread. Its okay to have a bias for MS but downplaying facts exposes you

 

[stryke]

Heh, funny how 10 years later, the debate for the playstation console vs. the xbox console has flipped flopped.

2003: PS = gameplay Xbox = graphics

2013: Xbox = gameplay PS = graphics

Very interesting change.

Maybe you need to create a troll thread about your insecurities too.

 

[eso76]

my room is 14 ft long, I've just walk to the end and I can still see the difference.

I doubt that. 50" sitting 13 ft away from the screen here.
I mean, yeah, side by side you might still be able to spot a difference, but it's incredibly tiny, almost nonexistent, certainly not one that would heavily impact visuals.
But the difference in terms of pixels per second is quite huge, it gives Devs a great deal of freedom, having to render 1.600.000 pixels as opposed to 2.000.000. I think its a very good deal.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Haha okay?

Why do you some of you guys always feel the need to turn a simple point into an (unnecessary) comparison?

Both MS and Sony are putting money into core games and that will more than likely be even more evident as the upcoming gen progresses.

There's quite a difference between sony and microsoft in terms of internal development and co-development, but that's something for another thread.

 

[Zemm]

Bgamer is incredible.

 

[op_ivy]

as i posted in the other thread, not a huge difference IMO. i guess i'm not sensitive to resolution. not as sharp, not as much detail, blurrier, but it looks virtually the same. is 900p to 1080p enough to make up most of the difference between ps4/x1? if so, cool. if not, 720p?

anyone?

 

[Bgamer90]

Heh seriously one of the most misinformed posts I've read in years on this forum, aside from my own ofcourse.

How is it misinformed? Were your on the PS forums back in 2003 to see the "console wars"?

I just stated an observation. Surprised that it got so much attention.

Bgamer is incredible.

Thank you very much.

 

[Uno Venova]

Heh, funny how 10 years later, the debate for the playstation console vs. the xbox console has flipped flopped.

2003: PS = gameplay Xbox = graphics

2013: Xbox = gameplay PS = graphics

Very interesting change.

tha real bgamer

 

[SwiftDeath]

I doubt that. 50" sitting 13 ft away from the screen here.
I mean, yeah, side by side you might still be able to spot a difference, but it's incredibly tiny, almost nonexistent, certainly not one that would heavily impact visuals.
But the difference in terms of pixels per second is quite huge, it gives Devs a great deal of freedom, having to render 1.600.000 pixels as opposed to 2.000.000. I think its a very good deal.

Why do you sit 13' ft away out of curiosity?

How the room is laid out maybe?

as i posted in the other thread, not a huge difference IMO. i guess i'm not sensitive to resolution. not as sharp, not as much detail, blurrier, but it looks virtually the same. is 900p to 1080p enough to make up most of the difference between ps4/x1? if so, cool. if not, 720p?

There looks to be other differences though

Cboat himself alluded to eyecandy differences as well as resolution differences

Some people may not be sensitive enough to see the difference or care but it's still an important thing to consider

 

[la flama blanca]

A some are since the same group feels that there's nothing appealing in terms of the current games on the PS4.




Haha, what is your problem?

FYI, I was on PS forums back in 2003. I was a big fan of the PS2 and I remember how the console debates went back then.

PS fans stated "gameplay matters more than graphics" where as the Xbox fans stated how better graphics mattered.

I just made a simple observation of how things have switched 10 years later. Your tone in your reply is really unnecessary.

Nobody gives a crap about what a few douches said back in 2003, I'd like to think that we had actual arguments here. It's no surprise you're one of the few unbanned staunch supporters of the xbone putting in overtime to shift the negative perspective of the console and it's pretty interesting to see you grasping at these ridiculous straws.

 

[iJudged]

I can't wait for both these beasts. One question though. Why?

 

[Waaghals]

They look identical to me. Ryse got trashed for the 900p reveal for this differential? Wow.

The 900p picture is 1080p downscaled and then upscaled. I assume that this causes it to look quite a bit cleaner than 900p native would have. The fact that both screens are pretty dark also makes it harder to see the difference.

Still, I don't think this is that big a deal.

 

[hawk2025]

How is it misinformed? Were your on the PS forums back in 2003 to see the "console wars"?

I just stated an observation. Surprised that it got so much attention.



Thank you very much.

It got so much attention because it's bullshit. You are grasping at straws and constructing strawmen left and right.

 

[MMaRsu]

How is it misinformed? Were your on the PS forums back in 2003 to see the "console wars"?

I just stated an observation. Surprised that it got so much attention.

I'm 26 and I've never heard such nonsense coming from Xbox gamers or from Playstation gamers. What a dumb thing to say.

 

[Corto]

I can't wait for both these beasts. One question though. Why?

Because you have an anxiety problem?

 

[SneakyStephan]

This is photoshop's bicubic automatic. Everything gets smeary. In motion it will look worse. It's also not a fair comparison because when downsampled, image quality benefits slightly from the downsample.

native

upscaled

Bad comparison
1: this is rendered at 1080p (which is what matters for aliasing), then downsampled to 900p (improved IQ) then upscaled back to 1080p

So you don't get the extra jaggies and all you get is the scaling blur (and since you did it with photoshop there will be a sharpening effect added to hide the blur at edges)

If it was actually rendered at 900p you'd get more jaggies

2: it's a screenshot, in motion a game rendered at 900p will also have more pixel crawling and shimmering than at 1080p, and that IS very visible

People with poor eyesight might not notice the extra blur as much, but the extra pixel crawling, moiree on the fence in the back (seems killzone has no transparency AA at all, quite shameful for a supposed next gen game) and jaggies ARE very noticable in motion.

 

[Bgamer90]

wh-wh-what?

This is, literally, an unnecessary comparison you pulled out of nowhere. What the heck is going on here

I see what you mean but I was mainly referring to comparisons for debating "what company is better than another". My point was just an observation of how things have changed in terms of what's being stated about both consoles/companies.

I honestly didn't want (or intend for) my post to derail the thread so I'm sorry if it did that.

 

[Dictator93]

Bad comparison
1: this is rendered at 1080p (which is what matters for aliasing), then downsampled to 900p (improved IQ) then upscaled back to 1080p

So you don't get the extra jaggies and all you get is the scaling blur (and since you did it with photoshop there will be a sharpening effect added to hide the blur at edges)

If it was actually rendered at 900p you'd get more jaggies

2: it's a screenshot, in motion a game rendered at 900p will also have more pixel crawling and shimmering than at 1080p, and that IS very visible

People with poor eyesight might not notice the extra blur as much, but the extra pixel crawling, moiree on the fence in the back (seems killzone has no transparency AA at all, quite shameful for a supposed next gen game) and jaggies ARE very noticable in motion.

. As soon as I saw this comparison i thought of these criticism.

I'll just quote you instead of posting THanks

 

[alr1ght]

Bad comparison
1: this is rendered at 1080p (which is what matters for aliasing), then downsampled to 900p (improved IQ) then upscaled back to 1080p

So you don't get the extra jaggies and all you get is the scaling blur (and since you did it with photoshop there will be a sharpening effect added to hide the blur at edges)

If it was actually rendered at 900p you'd get more jaggies

2: it's a screenshot, in motion a game rendered at 900p will also have more pixel crawling and shimmering than at 1080p, and that IS very visible

People with poor eyesight might not notice the extra blur as much, but the extra pixel crawling, moiree on the fence in the back (seems killzone has no transparency AA at all, quite shameful for a supposed next gen game) and jaggies ARE very noticable in motion.

Read what I wrote.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

I don't remember the date but they showed every hardware number and the TOP 10 sales in the old days.

At least in 2011 all the platforms numbers were public.

In the PS2 days, the entire NPD got leaked on this board. It was the entire top 3000 with fullon LTD numbers of every frickin game sold that month, a true salesage dream!

 

[Wynnebeck]

A some are since the same group feels that there's nothing appealing in terms of the current games on the PS4.




Haha, what is your problem?

FYI, I was on PS forums back in 2003. I was a big fan of the PS2 and I remember how the console debates went back then.

PS fans stated "gameplay matters more than graphics" where as the Xbox fans stated how better graphics mattered.

I just made a simple observation of how things have switched 10 years later. Your tone in your reply is really unnecessary.

No idea where this even came from. I was on several forums around the time of the PS2/Xbox and I don't remember one time ever seeing a discussion where people were trying to down play Xbox's graphics. At the time, people were more excited about all the exclusive console games that Xbox/Gamecube weren't getting. Statement is reaching a bit sir.

 

[coldfoot]

Heh, funny how 10 years later, the debate for the playstation console vs. the xbox console has flipped flopped.

2003: PS = gameplay Xbox = graphics

2013: Xbox = gameplay PS = graphics

Very interesting change.

In both cases, the people arguing for "gameplay" are simply insecure about their console of choice and its power deficit compared to the competition.

 

[Bgamer90]

I'm 26 and I've never heard such nonsense coming from Xbox gamers or from Playstation gamers. What a dumb thing to say.

So you don't remember people saying the PS2 was better for "gameplay" where as the Xbox was better for "graphics, power, (and gaming)" in multiple debates back then?

 

[moai]

whoa this are rough times here on gaf, people at each other throats instantly.
on topic, the difference is noticeable. would like to see a video of such comparisons.

 

[stryke]

A some are since the same group feels that there's nothing appealing in terms of the current games on the PS4.




Haha, what is your problem?

FYI, I was on PS forums back in 2003. I was a big fan of the PS2 and I remember how the console debates went back then.

PS fans stated "gameplay matters more than graphics" where as the Xbox fans stated how better graphics mattered.

I just made a simple observation of how things have switched 10 years later. Your tone in your reply is really unnecessary.

So exactly what is the point of that gross statement? That we're all hypocrites?

 

[iJudged]

Because you have an anxiety problem?

That sounds about right, moving on...

 

[Bgamer90]

Nobody gives a crap about what a few douches said back in 2003, I'd like to think that we had actual arguments here. It's no surprise you're one of the few unbanned staunch supporters of the xbone putting in overtime to shift the negative perspective of the console and it's pretty interesting to see you grasping at these ridiculous straws.

You really need to chill out. It's sad that my (different) opinion about gaming has such an impact on you to post in such a childish/immature manner.

In both cases, the people arguing for "gameplay" are simply insecure about their console of choice and its power deficit compared to the competition.

Bingo. That's the point I was trying to make.

Thank you. Very interesting how people took at as me criticizing PS fans when it was actually me criticizing what some current Xbox fans are stating.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Read what I wrote.

Why post is then if you knew all this
Your comparison is a marketer's wet dream, I can see this rear it's ugly ugly head a bunch of times in future threads, just like that awful resolution graph vs view distance thing, or the 'weighty controls' spin kept poisoning threads for years.

( also you only mentioned the motion bit but not why, and the downsampling bit, I figure i'd elaborate on the rest)

Just delete the shitty one imo (grimrock for the second one is also not the game i'd pick to show it but at least it's a technically sound comparison for SCREENSHOTS (and the big issue is still motion, though personally I'm grossed out by scaling blur so I care about the blur a lot too)

 

[Coxy]

So you don't remember people saying the PS2 was better for "gameplay" where as the Xbox was better for "graphics, power, (and gaming)" in multiple debates back then?

some people did, some didnt, where you're being ridiculous and console warz-y is lumping everyone into two sides and proclaiming one side said a thing and another side said another thing. It's the kind of hive mind stuff that's really annoying and destroys discussion

 

[Skeff]

sir my apologies, that my opinion about my preferences caused you to get so upset it caused you to curse.
I do apologize, forgive my bad manners
but my I suggest you try ZORK?

Already played it. Your right it's a great game, but as I pointed out, there is nothing preventing the game from being released on PS4.

What if I shocked you and told you Zork is available on the PS3 with CFW, is available to play inside of CoD and was officially released for PS1. Games such as Zork are capable of being released on either console, in fact with the indie publishing how it currently is, it is more likely to have a game of that nature released on PS4. Your post was incredibly disingenuous ad put forward the assumption that the XB1's lesser specs would bring about better gameplay, which if anything the opposite is true due to the features being utilized on PS4 such as Soft body Dynamics and indie policies.

 

[SeanR1221]

Nobody gives a crap about what a few douches said back in 2003, I'd like to think that we had actual arguments here. It's no surprise you're one of the few unbanned staunch supporters of the xbone putting in overtime to shift the negative perspective of the console and it's pretty interesting to see you grasping at these ridiculous straws.

I don't know why but I cracked up at this post. I think it was the tone I read it in.

 

[Corto]

That sounds about right, moving on...

Just messing with you. It's almost time. A few more weeks and we'll have them under our TVs.

 

[FStop7]

I find it really strange and insulting towards CBOAT that people try to discredit him, after all that he got right.

You should look at the recent thread about astroturfing on NeoGAF and it will make more sense to you. Some people simply don't know his track record. Others choose to ignore it. And others are sent here to discredit it.

 

[Glorified G]

A some are since the same group feels that there's nothing appealing in terms of the current games on the PS4.




Haha, what is your problem?

FYI, I was on PS forums back in 2003. I was a big fan of the PS2 and I remember how the console debates went back then.

PS fans stated "gameplay matters more than graphics" where as the Xbox fans stated how better graphics mattered.

I just made a simple observation of how things have switched 10 years later. Your tone in your reply is really unnecessary.

More like you made a broad generalization based off your own persecution complex. Basically this thread got to your irrational emotional attachment to MS so you pulled a quote on a board from 10 years ago and decided make a dumb comparison to make you feel better.

People tend to engage the level you present yourself at. That poster's tone reflects the absurdity of your post.

 

[Hubble]

Nobody gives a crap about what a few douches said back in 2003, I'd like to think that we had actual arguments here. It's no surprise you're one of the few unbanned staunch supporters of the xbone putting in overtime to shift the negative perspective of the console and it's pretty interesting to see you grasping at these ridiculous straws.

This witchhunting mentality needs to stop. Bgamer brings up a valid point and obviously it has stoked unnecessary fire in people's replies. I do too remember back in 2003, about similar debates of the Xbox having better graphics like in games like Splinter Cell compared to the PS2, and the PS guys arguing on their behalf.

 

[Alo81]

Bad comparison
1: this is rendered at 1080p (which is what matters for aliasing), then downsampled to 900p (improved IQ) then upscaled back to 1080p

So you don't get the extra jaggies and all you get is the scaling blur (and since you did it with photoshop there will be a sharpening effect added to hide the blur at edges)

If it was actually rendered at 900p you'd get more jaggies

2: it's a screenshot, in motion a game rendered at 900p will also have more pixel crawling and shimmering than at 1080p, and that IS very visible

People with poor eyesight might not notice the extra blur as much, but the extra pixel crawling, moiree on the fence in the back (seems killzone has no transparency AA at all, quite shameful for a supposed next gen game) and jaggies ARE very noticable in motion.

Here's a better example.

Identical screenshot, one rendered at 900p stretched to 1080, one rendered at 1080p.

Native res

900p resized.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Can't even follow the logic behind that statement. They have some pretty good games for launch, arguably better than the competition. And although gamers don't care for it, a Kinect-controlled UI isn't gimmicky. Even modern TV's are being released w/ motion-controlled menus. At some point it will catch on.

I never said Kinect was gimmicky. I was mainly refering to the "All in One" hook your cable box to it nonsense and the launch line up is abysmall.

Xbox had Halo, DOA 3, OddWorld Much's Oddessy, and Project Gotham Racing

Xbox 360 had Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo, Call of Duty 2, Geometry Wars, Project Gotham Racing 3, and Condemned at launch

Xbox 1 has dead rising 3, ryse and another Forza...

....yea

 

[SneakyStephan]

Here's a better example.

Identical screenshot, one rendered at 900p stretched to 1080, one rendered at 1080p.

Native res

900p resized.

i'm kind of surprised by the amount of blur from the 900p one, didn't think it would be this much.
I was more worried about aliasing.

 

[Gestault]

Except this isn't even true and only someone like you who's I'd actually congratulate in terms of maintaining a consistent level of mental gymnastics could come up with. Comparisons this gen to any other gen are just simply ridiculous considering all of the fucking muddy shit Microsoft has surrounding this console release.

Pointing out the previous rationales for why a particular platform is a good place to play games over the years is completely valid, especially when you note that the justification by users couldn't possibly have been consistent if they've had the same preferences for companies over time. This applies just as much to fans of the Original Xbox who might be saying now that power isn't everything for the Xbox One.

Even if you've fallen into that inconsistency yourself, there's no need to get defensive. Accusing someone of mental gymnastics for something as simple as this will just make you look unreasonable. The language doesn't necessarily help, in that regard.

 

[Log4Girlz]

900p is the more balanced resolution.

 

[myca77]

I go away for a few hours and suddenly there are corpses strewn about the fields.

One thing, hearing the graphics vs gameplay argument being brandished (whether it was for real or not) and then looking at a few of the XB1s launch titles just made me think of this amazing

Spoiler

fake

crytek interview that more people should read (slightly off topic, but it's worth it).

http://www.arcadianrhythms.com/2013/08/exclusive-interview-is-crytek-on-the-ryse/

 

[Odrion]

If you want to demonstrate real 1080p and upscaled 900p or 720p or whatever. Go use some PC games that have up scaling as an actual option ie Guild Wars 2 or Battlefield 4, don't waste your time in GIMP.

Then you get to even compare up scaling with AA/No AA etc. etc.

 

[eso76]

Why do you sit 13' ft away out of curiosity?

How the room is laid out maybe?

Its more like 12 ft, actually, but I thought that it's a rather normal viewing distance?
You guys generally sit closer to your screens ?

You mean its my fault that I can't read texts and emails in GTA V ?? D:

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

you guys are gonna be pretty miffed when Apple's iGame outsells these consoles 5:1

 

[alr1ght]

Ahh Dark Souls PC. A case study in the wonders of native resolution.

disregard shitty gif limitations.

 

[barkers crest]

Here's a better example.

Identical screenshot, one rendered at 900p stretched to 1080, one rendered at 1080p.

Native res

900p resized.

That's crazy, at native 1080p you can't even see the HUD.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Bgamer is incredible.

Unlike some of the Xbox one flock, he is pretty harmless and does offer somewhat sensible counterpoints.


However, he does tend to double down on his statements, trying to make out his perspectives reflect more of the general public rather than his own personal wishes and preferences.

Rather than being a shill or fanboy, he is just bloody stubborn.

 

[SeventhSon]

Ahh Dark Souls PC. A case study in the wonders of native resolution.

disregard shitty gif limitations.

Though I've used dsfix, I've never preformed the 'Pepsi Challenge' of changing the rendering resolution or comparing upscaled. Amazing to see the difference, it's much bigger then may be expected.

 

[Alo81]

Though I've used dsfix, I've never preformed the 'Pepsi Challenge' of changing the rendering resolution or comparing upscaled. Amazing to see the difference, it's much bigger then may be expected.

The actual difference between Dark Souls native res and 1080p is much larger.