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Digital Foundry: Nintendo Switch CPU and GPU clock speeds revealed

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Obsessing over Gflop numbers is kinda ridiculous though, it's a paper spec, it doesn't translate well into anything tangible because the whole system matters. It's like 64-bit vs 32-bit all over. Screenshots and video are God here, either like those or you don't. We also have game announcements, you either think those are good ports or not.

This sounds a lot like what MS was saying before the Xbox One launch and the resolution fallout.
 

saskuatch

Member
death of consoles and big screen gaming eh, not really. Big screen gaming is still there, just phones have a market several orders of magnitude larger, you know with billions of smart phones being in circulation......that's like saying fine cuisine is dead because there's a mcdonalds at every corner.
 
Compare this to the 3DS, Vita, or games that can be run on a $500 ipad or iphone. Switch as a handheld look pretty darn impressive compared to what handhelds are capable of doing. I have yet to play a game on my iphone 6s or ipad air that comes even close to what Breath of the Wild is doing.

Remember, there are more Nintendo handheld fans than there are console fans and for us handheld fans these specs are a huge leap from what we are used to. Seriously, the jump from 3DS to the Switch is very impressive.

Yeah indeed, looking at it that way is a bit more optimistic. It's still disappointing from a console standpoint tho.

I guess it all comes down to the value of the offer. I'm not too happy right now, but if the price is $199~$229 it would certainly be a great deal for what we're getting, so let's hope for the best!
(I doubt it will be less than $249~$299 though).
 

Spy

Member
That's one of Nintendo's biggest problems, they've let their isolated Kyoto office run things too long with little to know power given to their American or European branch, while Sony did the opposite which allowed them to successfully adapt when gaming went mainstream in the huge western market.

Being isolated and out of touch with the west leads to things like the Wii U gamepad/off tv focus, the hybrid Switch, etc. in markets where core gamers mostly only want to game on their big screens and casuals have become fine with F2P mobile games.
I actually kind of agree with this. I read something from an interview with Miyamoto the other day that I found alarming.

What are those roles?
Well, I'm the boss. Because I'm the oldest.

You mentioned earlier that you're the boss because you're the oldest. Do you ever worry about getting older and whether what you think is fun is really in tune with other people?
Even if I worried about that, it wouldn't do us any good. For me it's much more fun to see if the thing that I made is actually going to sell well. Rather than me trying to create something that I think other people will like, I just keep making things that I like and then I just see if other people like them too.

http://www.glixel.com/interviews/shigeru-miyamoto-on-mario-minecraft-and-apple-w455043
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
death of consoles and big screen gaming eh, not really. Big screen gaming is still there, just phones have a market several orders of magnitude larger, you know with billions of smart phones being in circulation......that's like saying fine cuisine is dead because there's a mcdonalds at every corner.

That comment was about the Japanese market where console sales are way down, with even the PS4 struggling, TV sales are way down etc.

Big screen console gaming is HUGE in the west. PS4 just hit 50 million consoles recently.

Nintendo is just stuck trying to find a way to satisfy both markets, and leaning toward the portable market as that's where they've had more success sans the Wii.
 

Scrawnton

Member
Good god. That really puts it into perspective.

but what do the flops really mean when running. What I mean is, on this list the Switch is weaker than Wii U but we already saw breath of the wild running on Switch with a much smoother framerate and what some think to be 1080p on the TV.
 

Vena

Member
I don't get it. People are defending Nintendo over this? I agree we don't need a graphics powerhouse too, but 300MHz in portable mode is not just a "not a graphics fucking monster" case, it simply borders on the pathetic. Isn't this nearly a intermediate of PSP/Vita level performance?

What the fuck is going on here?

Whaaaaaaaa

This is much more disappointing than what i thought.

Good god. That really puts it into perspective.

The WiiU is 176GFLOPS, people have no idea what they are quoting or how wrong it is.
 

Schnozberry

Member
Third parties aren't going to make exclusive Switch games, definitely not to the extent they did for the Wii. It was a lot cheaper to have developers make a Wii game. More importantly the developers that used to do that kind of thing are now assisting the development of the gargantuan franchises like COD, Destiny and Assassin's Creed.

It really boils down to how much money there is up for grabs. If it becomes a gold rush, then relying on conventional wisdom becomes less valid. Nintendo has certainly strived to make Switch compatible with the most commonly used industry middleware, so it won't be a situation like the Wii U where developers abandon ship based on the toolchain alone, and then poor sales drives the rest of the nails into the coffin.
 

Haganeren

Member
I actually kind of agree with this. I read something from an interview with Miyamoto the other day that I found alarming.

All the other company make game with what other people think is fun in mind.

I'm glad Nintendo is the only one who doesn't do things this way.... Even if it leads to some crap from time to time.
 
CoD is just one an example...An example that also happens to be the best selling gaming franchise on the planet...It's the type of game that brings mass market appeal...

The context here is that like it or not...Hybrid or not, it's still a home console, and it's competition in that market are the PS4 and Xbone...

Nissan and Ferrari both build hybrid cars, but they are sold to completely different markets, and at ridiculously different price points..$1m vs $25k...

The Switch and a PS4 will be sold at very similar price points (you really think this thing is much less than $249?), and designed to do basically the same thing...

The difference between a Toyota Prius, and a Ferrari La Ferrari in price, and market segment, are much different than the Switch and a PS4

PS4 and Switch aren't designed to do the same thing at all - Let's see how far you get playing with your PS4 en route to work. I agree that my example was a little silly but the Switch, whilst being in the same sector as the PS4 and Xbone, clearly isn't designed to compete with them.
 

asagami_

Banned
Actually we need to wait about the scability of the games on Switch. What happen if follow a model similar to Xbox One, where future iterations with better specs will help old games to look (and run) better?
 
I'll still buy one (depending on price in Australia) because I didn't have a Wii U and I love Nintendo games but it is very disappointing. Nintendo sure are trying everything they can to turn people away from their products. First with the Wii U, then the NES debacle where they didnt produce anywhere near enough and now with Super Mario Run which is $15 here in AUS.
 
I don't get it. People are defending Nintendo over this? I agree we don't need a graphics powerhouse too, but 300MHz in portable mode is not just a "not a graphics fucking monster" case, it simply borders on the pathetic. Isn't this nearly a intermediate of PSP/Vita level performance?

MHz is not a reflection of performance. At all.

EDIT: Consider that Android is quite poor at hardware utilisation, the X1 was pretty throttled by the huge overhead of Android. A stripped down OS and Nvidia API will help close the gap a little bit.
 

Hawk269

Member
While I really like beefy systems with top tier specs and benchmarks - I have to say power really isn't everything, especially when it comes to Nintendo. They were able to make the Wii U (which was grossly less powerful then other current gen consoles) and produce really great looking games at 1080P. with stable frame rates.

Still really excited for the Switch even if it is under-powered.

But in many horrid, I mean horrid IQ. Lego City Undercover which was one of my favorite Wii U games had such horrible IQ that it was an eyesore. It is easy to make 1080p games with good frame rates, but if you have ZERO AA and other IQ enhancements it makes games look pretty poor...fun, but poor.
 

Harlock

Member
The specs is fine for Nintendo games. The main Switch feature still being one hardware for all Nintendo software output. Skyrim is the Batman Armored Edition all over again.
 
Originally Posted by anothertech
PS3: 230 gflops
360: 240 gflops
WiiU: 352 gflops
Xbone: 1.2 tflops
Ps4: 1.8 tflops
Pro: 4.2 flops
Scorpio: 6 tflops

Switch:
153 gflops
340 gflops

whatyearisit.gif

The Wii U is 176~Tflops
So, what we've found out is the Switch, when docked is 2x Wii U's duct taped together or in modern day terms; weak as piss.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
I actually kind of agree with this. I read something from an interview with Miyamoto the other day that I found alarming.



http://www.glixel.com/interviews/shigeru-miyamoto-on-mario-minecraft-and-apple-w455043

Exactly. That kind of stuff is so worrisome. And they got bold after their wild ideas with the Wii and DS were so successful.

Innovation is important. But money matters and it needs to be backed with tons of relevant market research that shows that the idea is likely to sell in the markets that matter most financially.

That can't be right. How can the portable Switch run Zelda Breath of the Wild with less than half gflops of a Wii U?

Lowered resolution, IQ etc.?
 

pswii60

Member
PS3: 230 gflops
360: 240 gflops
WiiU: 352 gflops
Xbone: 1.2 tflops
Ps4: 1.8 tflops
Pro: 4.2 flops
Scorpio: 6 tflops

Switch:
153 gflops
340 gflops

whatyearisit.gif
Since when is 360 more powerful than PS3? I thought PS3 had more flops, just a nightmare CPU to develop for.
 

DigSCCP

Member
Ok...so whats the "sweet spot price" now ?
Could Nintendo surprise us and t launch it at US199,00 ?
Any price above this may put them in a very hard place, since we already have US249,00 deals for both Xbox One and PS4 Slim with a larger library and more power.
And Im pretty sure that at E3, a month after NS release, this will be the official price for both consoles.
 

orioto

Good Art™
Something i wanted to say by the way.

As usual we've hoped a lot but in the end, we all knew the truth deep inside, from the start.

What can we learn from that leak...
Nintendo is still in a 2 generation cycle, production value wise.

Let's remember something. Nintendo had a LOT of trouble adapting to HD. They were super late for Mario 3D World and MK8, which both cost a lot and had more people working on it than before, way more (i think i remember a list of mario titles and the numer of people involved and it was scary).

Nintendo just did that move, 4-5 years ago.
They are keeping that global level of graphics for some times. So the Switch is an update in concept, but it's the continuity in term of assets.

If basically it's 2 WiiU duct tapped together, they'll have more confort running things, but expect same level of models etc.. With hopefully a better iq.

With Nintendo we never talk enough about that aspect i think. It's not only about hardware, it's about what they're able to output in term of graphics and game scale. They won't blindly go PS4 level when they can't handle BotW with horizon level of assets
 

Rodin

Member
Whaaaaaaaa

This is much more disappointing than what i thought.

Also completely false.

Originally Posted by anothertech
PS3: old ass architecture, the GPU is actually weaker than the Wii U
360: old ass architecture, the GPU is actually weaker than the Wii U
WiiU: 176 gflops VLIW5/DX10.1 equivalent API
Xbone: 1.3 tflops GCN 1.0/DX12
Ps4: 1.8 tflops GCN 1.0/DX12 equivalent API
Pro: 4.2 tflops Polaris (8.4 fp16) DX12/equivalent API
Scorpio: 6 tflops Polaris/DX12

3DS 4gflops+fixed functions (PICA custom architecture, custom API)
Vita 28gflops (PowerVR Series 5, custom API)

Switch:
157 gflops standalone portable, 314gflops fp16 (236-472 w/ 3SM) Maxwell 2 with Pascal enhancements/Vulkan API
393 gflops docked, 786gflops fp16 (590-1180 w/3SM) with Pascal enhancements/Vulkan API

There, ftfy
 

cory64

Member
This sounds a lot like what MS was saying before the Xbox One launch and the resolution fallout.

Except the PS4 and Xbox One use directly comparable architecture

1.84 GFlops vs 1.31 GFlops = 40.5% difference
1080p vs 900p = 44% difference.

The resolution difference is pretty much correlated with the power difference.

Maxwell vs GCN for real-world gaming performance isn't 1:1 per FLOP, so you can't make a linear comparison. Not that that's going to make the Switch magically perform like a 720p version of current gen, but it's a lot closer than the raw numbers suggest.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Ok...so whats the "sweet spot price" now ?
Could Nintendo surprise us and t launch it at US199,00 ?
Any price above this may put them in a very hard place, since we already have US249,00 deals for both Xbox One and PS4 Slim with a larger library and more power.
And Im pretty sure that at E3, a month after NS release, this will be the official price for both consoles.

$249 price point pretty much requires a pack-in game in my eyes. $199 w/ a pack-in would be fucking aces though.
 

Gamer79

Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
At first I was like:
Michael-Jackson-Popcorn.gif


After reading the article I was like
Dr.-Who.gif
 

yyr

Member
The info this whole thread is based on states that the CPU clock speed is the same regardless of portable mode or dock and the only difference is GPU dock speed which is assumed to be used for the resolution bump from 720p to 1080p.

I guess you didn't get the DBZ reference
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
The main thing this thread has taught me is that people seriously overestimate how powerful the Vita is and seriously underestimate how powerful the Wii U is.

Well....depends on what its being compared to.

Compared to the 3DS the Vita is a powerhouse.

Compared to the PS4, XBO the Wii U is weak.

Which all comes back to the issue Nintendo is gonna have with the Switch. Home console/handheld hybrid.

Home console first....you sure about that Nintendo?
 
No He was correct.



Originally Posted by anothertech
PS3: 230 gflops
360: 240 gflops
WiiU: 352 gflops
Xbone: 1.2 tflops
Ps4: 1.8 tflops
Pro: 4.2 tflops
Scorpio: 6 tflops

Switch:
153 gflops
340 gflops

whatyearisit.gif













http://www.gamespot.com/forums/syst...-comparison-wiiu-vs-xbox-one-vs-ps4-30976500/

The numbers are inaccurate and the more modern machines are more efficient:

The stars represent how modern:

PS3: 230 gflops *
360: 240 gflops *
WiiU: 176 gflops **
Xbone: 1.31 tflops ***
Ps4: 1.8 tflops ***
Pro: 4.2 flops ****
Scorpio: 6 tflops ****

Switch:
At least 157 gflops ****
At least 393 gflops ****

All the ones with "****" also has 2x fp16.
 
Not many people read Thraktor's post I presume.

In terms of performance per watt, more SM cores at a lower frequency gives better performance in exchange for a bigger and more expensive chip. The article and any subsequent flop calculations are all under the assumption of using 2 SM cores.

Bascially, until we know the SM score count all Switch flop calculations are speculation.
 

Oemenia

Banned
Couldn't they have just gone for a separate home unit that accepted the same games? It seems that the hybrid focus has put them in a difficult position.
 
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