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Does PlayStation's 85% digital figure represent consumer preference?

The digital platform I am referring to that you refuse to participate in is a thousand times better than the digital platform that Sony/Valve/MS/Nintendo

No i highly disagree with valve tho.

Sure you cant resell the game

But it is possible you share your games with a few people endlessly, have a great refund system and full support of cheaper key stores even at launch . Valve does it better and imo would be even better compared to your model.

I highly disagree

If everything goes as planned for sony i will just happily focus on pc tho.
 
My wife is about as casual as you can get as a gamer. I was buying her physical games (I'm digital only) and she asked if she can just download the games to the Nintendo.

I asked her why and she said "it's more convenient and I don't like the clutter".

I feel for you physical collectors and I used to be one myself, but I don't have the space for that sorta stuff anymore 😕

Before I went digital, I was trading in and selling games all the time. Now I just have a digital library, by default, mostly on Steam. So I can understand the allure of a physical library. Wish I had the space for it.
 
Additional points that are ignored:


There's not a clean split between "digital buyers" and "physical buyers". There's digital-only people at one end, people who buy physical wherever possible at the other and then a bunch of people in the middle who mix and match. I know plenty of people on PlayStation that aren't of my ilk, they're not gaf users or the like, they're not hardcore gamers or nerds like us. They're your average joes, many are primarily digital but they all still have some discs. I don't know anyone who has entirely digital. I'm sure there are plenty and this is a small sample, but it's a varied sample of pretty regular consumers.


Also, there's the matter of choice being important. Many people are mostly digital or even all digital but still choose the disc sku of their PS5 because they still like to maintain the option. There's a 17yr old kid next door who's your typical fortnite kid, he saved up to get his PS5 himself a couple years back and he purposely saved up the extra for a disc drive version because even though he's 99% digital he wants the option. We're all looking at software, but there's simply the matter of being able to maintain a choice whether or not you ever exercise it. Most people still choose the disc capable console when they have the choice and will pay the premium for it. That choice is a core appeal of PS consoles.

This isn't for eg. a case of of say, ~75% of gamers only want digital games and consoles because that's the proportion of digital purchases. It's more a case of 50-70% still want hardware capable of playing discs and that group consists of people who are all digital, people who are all physical where possible and many who use both. In turn, while many people will not doubt fold, this is likely gonna piss off a larger proportion of people than you'd initially think. It may not be the reason most split on PlayStation, but it could be a straw that breaks the camel's back. I've yet to encounter anyone in real life that is all that thrilled with the PS5 generation to begin with, frankly most think it sucked and are already considering just riding out PS5 'til the wheels fall off on their interest in gaming or moving to PC and/or even Nintendo(?!).


I believe there's a fundamental issue with these businesses as they progress, the core, original teams leave and it's almost entirely pure money men ruling it. Every element of the business comes under close scrutiny, everything becomes a victim of individualisation and over-metrification. Whether that be one department over another or one format over another..

The older bosses had an instinct for the overall brand and a much more holistic approach, there may be departments or components of that business that are not particularly lucrative in terms of the pure financials; and in some cases they may cause a direct loss. But closed console platforms (particularly PlayStation) are one of the best examples of a business/platform/ecosystem where you have to consider the many ways in which every moving part adds varying types of value. Just perceived value and brand identity can be important. again, it's holistic and it needs people at the top who understand this and have the instinct for what is vital or not. Not people who will cut everything that doesn't pull its weight in a direct financial sense; quite often with goals that are unrealistic these days. Some things should simply be considered a cost of doing business and butchering them is incredibly dangerous, particularly in an industry that is very much momentum based.

I wouldn't be all that confident in Sony's ability to run the numbers either, you only need to look to Bungie and Concord to see what a clusterfuck they can get themselves into. We also see folks like Shawn Layden say this is probably a pure spreadsheet decision more than anything else. Which is a terrible way to make decisions like these. A spreadsheet or something like it can't account for much other than the numbers and it's just not that simple, there are far more organic, unpredictable forces at play that requires someone who either knows the industry or at least has a respect for it.


I also suspect that a large number of those people who are pissed off about this are longer term PlayStation fans. That core userbase is foundational, they're less fickle and more reliable as long as you treat them reasonably. The 14yr old kid who needs his next dopamine fix or even the 30yr old guy who's lost value and reverence for the things he interacts with, Sony can rinse them in the short term, but they'll disappear in the drop of a hat when they see a new shiny thing or just get bored. The quality and consistency of a customer is sometimes as important as the quantity. Even if it's just 10-20% of players, they're a handy buffer when things go wrong, all they cost is a little reason and respect.

Sony seem to be steadily stripping back every part of their identify in an effort to achieve predatory ideals and increase the bottom line by a few percent. Some things just need to be non-negotiable.
 
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Yep, people need to stop fighting for what is already gone and start fighting for what's next.

The conversation should be about how to ensure Sony and the other console manufacturers ensure their store is an environment that is a fair and friendly environment for consumers. So that means things like their refund policy and the availability of game keys via 3rd party stores.

In effect, despite still making a console Sony are putting themselves in a position where their direct competition will no longer be other consoles, but it will be PC (in particular, Steam), because that is what they will be compared with going forwards as far as their digital store is concerned.

They've got away with shitty policies on their store for the longest time because of the fact that it has been optional for many consumers (dependant on what games they primarily play), but the moment they make it the only option is the moment it promotes direct comparisons to Steam because in effect they become the same thing - gaming platforms where digital is the only option.

If people want the real reason why they are ceasing PC ports, this is it.
If you give up fighting, you give up and allow them to do the complete opposite this.
You'll be giving them permission to do it.
This thing you hope to happen will never happen if this battle is lost.
And if it's already lost, then so have you.
 
As 'manipulative' as the Steam model may be ('can you afford NOT to buy this while it's on sale??') it still ends up being excellent value overall imo, unless you have no impulse control whatsoever.

I don't particularly mind the 'maybe I'll get around to playing it and maybe I won't, depending on my mood' aspect (I end up playing around half of what I buy), because it's still cheap af. It ends up feeling more like a curated subscription, except you don't have to keep paying to maintain access.

If I have been manipulated, I feel like I've been manipulated into a pretty great deal overall.
 
It's bigger than that. The availability and production of discs themselves has been decreasing for some time now.


Would Capcom have ordered more if more were available? Who knows.

But the fact is that consumers have continually shown that in the scenario where no physical copy is available, they will simply substitute in a digital copy, even at the same cost. Perfect substitutes in economic terms.
You're talking about those
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That's Recordable Blu-ray, completely different to what ships at retail with games & UHD's
 
No i highly disagree with valve tho.

Sure you cant resell the game

But it is possible you share your games with a few people endlessly, have a great refund system and full support of cheaper key stores even at launch . Valve does it better and imo would be even better compared to your model.

I highly disagree

If everything goes as planned for sony i will just happily focus on pc tho.
And you my friend, are clearly part of the problem. There is nothing good about valve, they basically set the trends that everyone is trying to follow and emulate, and you have just become accustomed to it as your normal. You cannot resell games or rent them out; that is the single biggest differentiator between physical and digital. I refuse to give them a pass because they allow you shop for digital codes from other sites so you can save a buck or two here or there. You are still selling your soul off; they are just going about it in a way that you don't feel bad about it.

And you can also share games on PS.

Look, lets keep this simple: the one thing physical has over digital is true ownership. And the embodiment of that is not refunds, sharing or even deals.... its that you can resell your games and/or be able to use them without ever once connecting to the internet. Anything other than that is part of the problem.

You and others are just moving the posts and allowing whatever tribalism you have filter into it. If you want to talk about the problem honestly, there is no chance in hell that valve is exempt. All for what? That they give you deals? You shop around and get stuff cheaper? Fuck that, wait long enough, and everything is cheaper across any platform (except Nintendo). You can come talk to me about Valve when they offer everything you get if you were buying physical, or not. What the hell is the difference?
 
You and others are just moving the posts and allowing whatever tribalism you have filter into it. If you want to talk about the problem honestly, there is no chance in hell that valve is exempt. All for what? That they give you deals? You shop around and get stuff cheaper? Fuck that, wait long enough, and everything is cheaper across any platform (except Nintendo). You can come talk to me about Valve when they offer everything you get if you were buying physical, or not. What the hell is the difference?

It's the lesser evil in a digital-only future.

Your model, where you pay these platforms more money just to have basic consumer rights, isn't ideal either. I don't want to wait years for maybe a 50% discount if I can get that almost day one on PC. If the only option is bad consumer rights anyway, then at least give it to me at a reasonable price.

You can also share your Steam games within a larger group, which beats the weird system on console.

And don't just downplay the refund system like that, either.

I agree PC isn't perfect, but it's the best we've got and under your circumstances, it would still be the better option.
 
You and others are just moving the posts and allowing whatever tribalism you have filter into it. If you want to talk about the problem honestly, there is no chance in hell that valve is exempt. All for what? That they give you deals? You shop around and get stuff cheaper? Fuck that, wait long enough, and everything is cheaper across any platform (except Nintendo). You can come talk to me about Valve when they offer everything you get if you were buying physical, or not. What the hell is the difference?

It's clear Steam gets a pass because people can go on 1000 chinese sites to buy cheap(er) keys and that proves the only things that really matter are price and convenience

It has nothing to do with spinning discs or true ownership
 
The leak only had first party games not third party; Digital sales doesn't stop they continue to grow and widen the gap further.

It's clear Steam gets a pass because people can go on 1000 chinese sites to buy cheap(er) keys and that proves the only things that really matter are price and convenience

It has nothing to do with spinning discs or true ownership
But they are only couple of dollars cheaper and not by much And its not like a customer can create create these cards. They are done by publishers or studios. They can give enough discounts.
 
'There is nothing good about Valve' overlooks a lot of context. The status quo ante was not a healthy PC gaming market; it felt like piracy was the default and that maybe a handful in a hundred PC gamers were actually supporting it financially. Steam providing an alternative good enough to compete with easy piracy has been pivotal. I consider PC gaming to be in a much healthier place now because of Steam than it was then, and than it would be without it.

Also, as dominant as Steam is, being on an open platform means its ability to abuse this is nothing compared to what Sony's will be if/when it has a large install base and there is no alternative to the PS store. Steam's audience is not actually captive, unlike PS6's audience which effectively will be.

The existence of alternative stores for PS digital would not solve all the problems of no longer having physical, but it would be far better than having zero competition to PS store.
 
I just want people to understand this simple point, even if the 85/90% digital sales figure was right ( it isn't ) that still wouldn't justify going full digital in the future.

Believe or not 10% makes a big difference in this industry, for example Playstations first party game sales are roughly 10 to 15% of all game sales on the PS5 ( 85% are third party ), and yet it's those first party games that made people decide to buy a PS5 over a Series X . I single exclusive, a single physical copy is enough for a consumer to decide buy one system over the other, seems like Sony has forgotten this very important lesson, hopefully it bites them in the ass sooner or later.
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Like it or not, the statistics speak for themselves
 
They are including DLC/extras so that's not completely accurate.
Yup. A real reflection and look at data would be how much dlc / microtransactions spending was tied to people who have the game physically.

They definitely have this data and it's kind of telling they won't reveal it.

Like, if they have data showing physical buyers buy the game and nothing else, then it's clear why they want to kill it.

But if the data show physical buyers do buy dlc and such, it just shows physical buyers are still an important part of the ecosystem and their decision to axe it would be seen as definitely not because of market trends but as an attack on ownership and the second hand market.
 
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The leak only had first party games not third party; Digital sales doesn't stop they continue to grow and widen the gap further.


But they are only couple of dollars cheaper and not by much And its not like a customer can create create these cards. They are done by publishers or studios. They can give enough discounts.


Digital grows because there are no more copies to sell (they printed low volumes).

40% physical is still a decent number.
 
Yup. A real reflection and look at data would be how much dlc / microtransactions spending was tied to people who have the game physically.

They definitely have this data and it's kind of telling they won't reveal it.

Like, if they have data showing physical buyers buy the game and nothing else, then it's clear why they can't to kill it.

But if the data show physical buyers do buy dlc and such, it just shows physical buyers are still an important part of the ecosystem and their decision to axe it would be seen as definitely not because of market trends but as an attack on ownership and the second hand market.

First question that I had as well.
 
It's the lesser evil in a digital-only future.

Your model, where you pay these platforms more money just to have basic consumer rights, isn't ideal either. I don't want to wait years for maybe a 50% discount if I can get that almost day one on PC. If the only option is bad consumer rights anyway, then at least give it to me at a reasonable price.

You can also share your Steam games within a larger group, which beats the weird system on console.

And don't just downplay the refund system like that, either.

I agree PC isn't perfect, but it's the best we've got and under your circumstances, it would still be the better option.
Well, then lets stop the games or hypocrisy. You said it yourself: lesser of two evils. And listening to what you say, this comes down to pricing and deals for you. And I believe this is the case with most others, cause I can't see how anyone can, with a straight face, talk about true ownership if they have been patronizing Valve.

And here is the crazy thing, my model... would at least get even Valve into it, because let's face it, no one is offering what I am suggesting. Free or otherwise, compared to what we have right now, my model is better. Even better than what Valve is doing, which you seem ok with.
It's clear Steam gets a pass because people can go on 1000 chinese sites to buy cheap(er) keys and that proves the only things that really matter are price and convenience

It has nothing to do with spinning discs or true ownership
Exactly, and of course it doesn't. That's why I have been talking about this being tiring and hypocrisy. Hell, I even said it when GTA6 announced all digital; I said no one was making a fuss, even though this move marks the end of physical media as we know it, and that if Sony were to make a similar announcement, the pitchforks would be out. And boom, less than a week later, here we are.

Like, it's mind-boggling to me... how can anyone be talking about how you suddenly own nothing and true ownership, and reselling games and all that, boycotts... and then in the same sentence say... I would spend my money on Steam. Lol... like wtf???? How is that any different??? I mean if they had said Nintendo, at least that would be better... for now.
 
What about this…

A person goes to the store and buys a physical game. Then they play it and sell it to GameStop. Then GameStop sells that game to someone else and they play it and sell it back to GameStop (or anywhere else). Is that initial purchase the only one being counted or are they counting used game sales as well?

Because 2 or countless others may have played the same exact copy of a game, meaning all of those people preferred to play physical vs digital but to Sony, only 1 person bought that game.

In the digital world, each person had to buy the game as new, thus meaning they sell a lot more digital copies.
 
'There is nothing good about Valve' overlooks a lot of context. The status quo ante was not a healthy PC gaming market; it felt like piracy was the default and that maybe a handful in a hundred PC gamers were actually supporting it financially. Steam providing an alternative good enough to compete with easy piracy has been pivotal. I consider PC gaming to be in a much healthier place now because of Steam than it was then, and than it would be without it.

Also, as dominant as Steam is, being on an open platform means its ability to abuse this is nothing compared to what Sony's will be if/when it has a large install base and there is no alternative to the PS store. Steam's audience is not actually captive, unlike PS6's audience which effectively will be.

The existence of alternative stores for PS digital would not solve all the problems of no longer having physical, but it would be far better than having zero competition to PS store.
This is just crazy to me... come on guys. Let's be practical here.

ok... this is common sense.

Why is Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo...etc the way they are and not Valve? And no, greed is an easy cop out answer, because every corporation is greedy. So why?

Its also not because they are on an open platform;. Valve owns 75% of the pc digital market; that's more than Sony or Nintendo owns of the console market; hell ist almost equivalent to Sony and Nintendo's share of the console market... combined; almost 150M MAUs; yup, that proves you can be an open platform and still be a monopoly. Valve's numbers dwarf whatever the console space can muster.

So again... why is Valve different?

The simple answer.... they have absolutely not a fucking thing to lose. Simple as that. That is what makes them different from sony/xbox/nintendo. They aren't making games, their market share and/or user base is not tied to how well the hardware they make sells.... nothing. They couldn't care less who is selling or buying games and from where, as long as some of that money trickles down to them eventually.

Comparing Valve to these other platform holders is flat out disingenuous. Alternative stores on playstation/nintendo? WTF? That's gotta be the dumbest thing I ever heard... You might as well just tell them to pack it up and close down business. Like, how does that work... Sony should spend billions building and creating a platform, providing support to all devs building on said platform, then just allow them to sell games on another store and completely cut them off?

There is a reason why open and closed platforms exist.
 
85% of PlayStation game sales are digital.
Apparently.

That figure is being widely quoted as a simple one-liner rationale for the end of PlayStation disc production. It would be easy to accept it uncritically as just common sense, a fait accompli. Why support physical if gamers don't want it?
...but is that what it means?

The figure came from a Sony financial report, where for one single quarter, specifically FY25Q4, the ratio of digital to physical full game sales was 85%. It was a new high. The average over the two year period in that report is 77%, but what the figure really represents is worth considering.

You could be forgiven for misinterpreting the 85% as meaning for every 100 copies of GoW Ragnarok, AstroBot or GT7 sold that quarter only 15 were purchased on disc. Or you might assume it meant Sony made 85% of their software sales revenue from digital games. None of that is true.

The truth is that the vast majority of PS5 games are digital only. Less than 2000 PS5 games have been pressed on disc. How many PS5 games are for sale (not F2P) on the PSN Store? About 7,500.

That's where this percentage figure is misleading. It counts every sale as equal. If you bought Death Stranding 2 on disc and somebody else bought Anime Fantasy Uni 3 for $0.99, the percentage figure considers these as wholly equivalent.

To put it another way, let's say I spend $100 on games this month. I buy one physical AAA game for $69.99 and spend the rest on six little $5 digital only games. What percentage of my game purchases were digital? More than 85%.

The 85% figure does not truly represent 'consumer preference' and cannot in good faith be used to justify the end of PlayStation physical game distribution.

Don't be fooled. The push to a digital only market has nothing to do with what gamers want. It's only about maximizing profit through market control.
Yeah, it's what a lot of people suspected. Most of the games on PSN are shovelware that you can only buy digitally. Sony is doing this because they want a walled off garden where you're forced to pay top dollar for everything. And they're teaming up with Rockstar to try to make this happen. Hence the uproar. Shit sucks.
 
What about this…

A person goes to the store and buys a physical game. Then they play it and sell it to GameStop. Then GameStop sells that game to someone else and they play it and sell it back to GameStop (or anywhere else). Is that initial purchase the only one being counted or are they counting used game sales as well?

Because 2 or countless others may have played the same exact copy of a game, meaning all of those people preferred to play physical vs digital but to Sony, only 1 person bought that game.

In the digital world, each person had to buy the game as new, thus meaning they sell a lot more digital copies.
So you want Sony to count sales of games that they get no money for or can't even track on their books? How? Why? Would you?

I mean, let's say you make a belt... 1000 of them, you sell 600 of them and have 400 left, so when someone asks you hw well you have done, would you tell them you sold 600 belts? Or that you sold 1400 belts because 200 of the belts you sold were resold 4 times even though you made nothing from the sale?
 
I know enough idiots buying CoD and FIFA games digitally on day one for more than the cheaper disc versions.

Most people don't give a fuck.

And these idiots are the Main Problem
 
Like, it's mind-boggling to me... how can anyone be talking about how you suddenly own nothing and true ownership, and reselling games and all that, boycotts... and then in the same sentence say... I would spend my money on Steam. Lol... like wtf???? How is that any different??? I mean if they had said Nintendo, at least that would be better... for now.


Well, then lets stop the games or hypocrisy. You said it yourself: lesser of two evils. And listening to what you say, this comes down to pricing and deals for you. And I believe this is the case with most others, cause I can't see how anyone can, with a straight face, talk about true ownership if they have been patronizing Valve.

I don't trust Sony with a digital-only future, and if there's no other way than to accept a subpar digital-only model, then at the very least, give me a good price for it. Would I also like better consumer rights on top of that? Absolutely. But better pricing on PSN is a must.

I know it's not fine that you can't resell games on steam either but by comparison, they have a no-questions-asked refund system, a family sharing system better than sonys and competitive pricing.

Your model wouldn't change a lot especially since you would made Sony even more money.
 
I know enough idiots buying CoD and FIFA games digitally on day one for more than the cheaper disc versions.

Most people don't give a fuck.

And these idiots are the Main Problem
I think it was over for MP games soon as you could preload and play early by buying digital. Do stores even do midnight releases anymore?
 
if they want a digital only future they need to assure EVERYONE that the games we paid for are OURS and not a fucking license to use.

I need to be able to sell or trade, and that will be A NIGHTMARE for them to implement.
 
I don't trust Sony with a digital-only future, and if there's no other way than to accept a subpar digital-only model, then at the very least, give me a good price for it. Would I also like better consumer rights on top of that? Absolutely. But better pricing on PSN is a must.

I know it's not fine that you can't resell games on steam either but by comparison, they have a no-questions-asked refund system, a family sharing system better than sonys and competitive pricing.
Ok... two things.

You know Steam doesn't make anything from third-party stores selling Steam keys, right? Why do you think they allow it? Cause they love they consumers? I mean, I get that we benefit from it, but why do you think they do it... the why they do it, and that they can even do that is important. And if you understand that, then you understd the difference betwen valve and the other platform holders.

And then two...

If Steam was not on an open platform, if they made a console, had to market it, and how much they make is entirely tied to how many consoles they sell... you think they would be giving away keys for free to publishers to sell however they want and at whatever price all while making absolutely nothing from those sales, as long as it can only be redeemed on Steam?
Your model wouldn't change a lot especially since you would made Sony even more money.
My model would change EVERYTHING. Because while it may cost me or the buyer $5... I can sell my digital license to anyone I want for whatever price I want to sell it for, as long as its more than $5 if I wanna make something off that sale.

How is that not better than anything that we have right now?

Or better yet... how can you be ok with selling your game to GameStop, at whatever price they set, and they go on to sell it on and add whatever markup on top of that, but then you suddenly draw the line when that "markup" for the sale is going to the developers that actually made the game. And you never stopped to think that if platform holders/publishers/devs know they would make money from every third-party sale, then they would even encourage it?
 
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