Support NeoGAF

[EGM1966]

Too small of a userbase. They can port to the PS3/PS4 later in the year.

I get that my point was that as an exclusive (timed or otherwise) clearly primarily aimed at next gen by MS it makes more sense to launch it on the new console only - look at Gears as an example. I can definitely see EA wanting it on 360 (and I'm sure it is timed due to EA link as well) but it means at launch it won't necessarily drive a lot of people to pick up an XB1 for it if the experience is decent on the 360 they already own.

New consoles need games only available on them or as minimum a clear move like EA allowing BF4 upgrades - maybe this will emerge for TitanFall too closer to launch which would make a lot more sense in that case.

 

[TheD]

Well considering you have no idea how the 360 version looks either is kinda funny.

Judging by how Portal 2 ran on the consoles, Titanfall will probably be fine. Especially since they value 60FPS over everything else.

Titanfall does not have the same renderer and will be doing a lot of different things than Portal 2.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

A slight bump? Keep trolling.

Keep in mind that TitanFall is a cross gen game. There's no escaping the roots. It looks good but not great. Probably in part to it being developed for 360 alongside PC. That's the footage I want to see anyways.

 

[DieH@rd]

JESUS.... THIS WILL NEVER END

by tensuke:

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I'm telling you, that's why they're out to get me. I think I've indirectly ended so many, but honest it's not my fault. They just come up with the craziest theories and end up short circuiting or getting super aggressive and vitriolic the moment you rebut their rubbish with well formulated and evidence or reality based responses.

I've heard some pretty entertaining and elaborate stories made up about me too lol. Obviously none of which are true, but it's entertaining to read none-the-less.

There's a select few out there who I'm guessing are holding grudges because of bans, re-bans, alt bans and all the rest lol.

My advice to certain, particularly short fused people on here, it's fine to disagree, have differing opinions, defences, even preferences, biases and all the rest, but the moment you start getting offensive about it or continually regurgitating factually incoherent or misinforming information, appreciate that the responses will likely not be too amiable. But try your hardest not to get worked up about it and just take it lightly.

People even talk about you on other forums. Its weird.

 

[travisbickle]

I doubt it'll be a slight bump either but the point is valid and I'm puzzled at TitanFall on 360 (unless EA insisted as I can't imagine why MS would want to).

I believe both Titanfall and Dead Rising 3 were intended to be on all current platforms. DR3 as a reboot for the series and TFall as a response to COD, but both supposed to be made available to the widest audience possible. MS decided to pay to have them available on the XB1 platform, probably couldn't pay EA enough to restrict it to XB1 as I think DR3 has been sent out to die on a single platform!

 

[Ushae]

JESUS.... THIS WILL NEVER END

by tensuke:

That gif is amazing. Taking it to the next level lol.

 

[turk3y]

Keep in mind that TitanFall is a cross gen game. There's no escaping the roots. It looks good but not great. Probably in part to it being developed for 360 alongside PC. That's the footage I want to see anyways.

Completely untrue, respawn are only doing Xbox one and pc, some unnamed dev is porting to 360 but respawn is totally focused on the two targets.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Sony first party are basically the opposite of Nintendo first party right now.

Nintendo are struggling with the transition to HD because they've been stuck with GameCube/Wii level tech for ten years.
Sony will hit the ground running with multi-threaded code and GPGPU processing because of the steep learning curve they were forced to go through with PS3.

IMO Sony have a triple whammy
- console is cheaper
- console is more powerful
- strong first party teams will be better placed to leverage that tech more quickly.

It's actually a quadruple, hence the 4 for the new Playstation.
- Public relations to the consumer and the developers. This means the PS4 could very well in fact be the lead platform for 3rd party developers.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

One thing to consider is that It would appear that Microsoft has given up on losing a lot of money on the console at launch with their price point. So even if Sony outsells them 2 to 1 then they aren't going into it losing money on the hardware. So if they only sell 50 million consoles next gen at a break even price to slight profit per unit hardware, then I'm sure they won't be too upset about Sony selling more. At least within reason. So they are banking that people would rather have Kinect 2.0 than better graphics. We will see.

Whatever they are saving on the console itself will be spent on advertising and buying up exclusive content. This is the company that spent $400 million on a NFL deal, and $40-60 million on exclusive (timed) DLC for GTA4.

Oh and plasters Halo on every snack food and Mt Dew they can.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Whatever they are saving on the console itself will be spent on advertising and buying up exclusive content. This is the company that spent $400 million on a NFL deal, and $40-60 million on exclusive (timed) DLC for GTA4.

Oh and plasters Halo on every snack food and Mt Dew they can.

Microsoft wants to sell as many units as possible. That means selling at a loss if they have to. If the PS4 takes off like it looks to and leaves the XBox One behind (especially in North America) watch Microsoft be much more aggressive in marketing, pricing and bundles. They still won't drop Kinect though.

 

[QaaQer]

Sony set a price target, and went for the highest achievable graphics at that price point. Or do you prefer if they simply went for the highest graphics and end up with another $600 situation while taking a loss? I'd say this was the smarter approach.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that consoles are able to get more out of a graphics card because they use the same hardware across the board. They are able to do lower level, hardware specific coding and use the hardware more efficiently. If that's the case, why do people keep comparing the graphics card they have on the PC to the one on the PS4? Wouldn't they need a more powerful card to achieve similar results? Not to mention the various tweaks they added to the architecture...
Again, this is my basic understanding of the hardware, so do correct me if I am wrong...

You are right. I think people do it because PCs have fanboys as well.

All pc games have to go through the APIs which have 10 to 100 times the overhead, and the power of a pc gfx card can never be fully leveraged because nobody codes games specifically for one particular card or cpu. And, PC games have to run on a near infinite number of hardware specs and multiple types of OSes. These are real and big time handicaps. Timothy Lottes said that because of this, PS4 specifically will by "years ahead of PCs".*

It will be interesting this coming gen whether or not games coded specifically for ps4 and that have gpgpu/huma etc features that are part of core gameplay will play substantially different than PC/multiplat games. It is the one thing that I'm looking forward to this gen and that might distinguish PS4 games for the entire generation. Or it could just be used for stupid effects like the Physx crap from nividia.

*This was after the PS4 spec reveal in Feb, which is why he said PS4 and PS4/X1 as X1 specs had not been revealed.

 

[Asd202]

JESUS.... THIS WILL NEVER END

by tensuke:

HOLY SHIT This GIF )))).

 

[Alcoholikaust]

That gif is epic-well done and I could'nt have said it better myself.

 

[Naminator]

Something that has bothered me in that comparison, can anyone explain it?
So apparently the XBO would only be able to handle games at 900p@20FPS while PS4 would be able to do 1080p@30FPS.
The difference between 900p and 1080p is 44% and the difference between 20FPS and 30FPS is 50%, multiplying that, it ends up with 116% no?

I'm sorry but how is 40-50% paper spec advantage ends up with 116% difference in running real world applications?

This doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

[Aussie Legend]

Banderasception.gif

 

[omonimo]

Something that has bothered me in that comparison, can anyone explain it?
So apparently the XBO would only be able to handle games at 900p@20FPS while PS4 would be able to do 1080p@30FPS.
The difference between 900p and 1080p is 44% and the difference between 20FPS and 30FPS is 50%, multiplying that, it ends up with 116% no?

I'm sorry but how is 40-50% paper spec advantage ends up with 116% difference in running real world applications?

This doesn't make any sense to me at all.

wut... in any case, is not multiplying differents things, the hell you are talking...

 

[Naminator]

All pc games have to go through the APIs which have 10 to 100 times the overhead

Do people still believe that? I thought this was debunked a very long time a go.
My GTX TITAn is considered to be 3x more powerful than the PS4, yet I can run BF3 at 1080p, Ultra Settings, 4x MSAA with over 100FPS, and I'm sure that BF4 will run well above 60FPS on my current setup, especially with the new CPU optimizations courtesy of DX11.1

And yes, yes I know, I'm comparing a 1k card to a 400$ console, but the point is that the notion that you need a PC 10-100 times more powerful to achieve the same results as a console is pure bunk!

 

[Riky]

So apparently the XBO would only be able to handle games at 900p@20FPS while PS4 would be able to do 1080p@30FPS.

I think the article is talking about generic code, obviously it would then have to be optimised for X1 to get to the target resolution/framerate. I don't think they are saying games will be shipped at 20fps.

One basic example we were given suggested that without optimisation for either console, a platform-agnostic development build can run at around 30FPS in 1920×1080 on PS4, but it’ll run at “20-something” FPS in 1600×900 on Xbox One

 

[Nightengale]

I'm sorry but how is 40-50% paper spec advantage ends up with 116% difference in running real world applications?

This doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Based on what's implied in the article, zero optimisations.

I'm going to make a stupid analogy here, so it may be entirely wrong. But the way it seems, PS4 is like this giant steel cage and you can easily throw a raging bear inside and it'll still hold the bear just fine.

XB1 seems like it's a slightly less sturdy cage, and for the bear to be kept inside safely, you'll need to do some massaging, tie the bear to a rope, make it happy, slightly sedate it so that it's not raging, behind-the-scenes stuff.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Ps4 has no gaemz, again.

Because it relies too much on "numers," whatever those are.

Dem numers!

 

[omonimo]

Based on what's implied in the article, zero optimisations.

I'm going to make a stupid analogy here, so it may be entirely wrong. But the way it seems, PS4 is like this giant steel cage and you can easily throw a raging bear inside and it'll still hold the bear just fine.

XB1 seems like it's a slightly less sturdy cage, and for the bear to be kept inside safely, you'll need to do some massaging, tie the bear to a rope, make it happy, slightly sedate it so that it's not raging, behind-the-scenes stuff.

More probably, the bear will be littler than in the ps4 cage.

 

[tensuke]

DeviantArt link to gif since it's probably faster than my site (40MB)

 

[Appollowexx]

JESUS.... THIS WILL NEVER END

by tensuke:

To much effort went into this Gif haha.

But it is one of the greatest I have ever seen! Keeps going and going...

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Based on what's implied in the article, zero optimisations.

I'm going to make a stupid analogy here, so it may be entirely wrong. But the way it seems, PS4 is like this giant steel cage and you can easily throw a raging bear inside and it'll still hold the bear just fine.

XB1 seems like it's a slightly less sturdy cage, and for the bear to be kept inside safely, you'll need to do some massaging, tie the bear to a rope, make it happy, slightly sedate it so that it's not raging, behind-the-scenes stuff.

At any moment the bear could wake up, break out of the xbone and kill everyone.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Based on what's implied in the article, zero optimisations.

I'm going to make a stupid analogy here, so it may be entirely wrong. But the way it seems, PS4 is like this giant steel cage and you can easily throw a raging bear inside and it'll still hold the bear just fine.

XB1 seems like it's a slightly less sturdy cage, and for the bear to be kept inside safely, you'll need to do some massaging, tie the bear to a rope, make it happy, slightly sedate it so that it's not raging, behind-the-scenes stuff.

Also, the bear in the cage will actually be a dog.

 

[Vizzeh]

For anyone looking to see/listen the differences in latency of GDDR5 v DDR3, L1+L2 cache on the Jaguars and benchmarks on Radeon cards I would recomend checking out the video bellow, alot of research put into 1 spot, alot will ofc know most of this but its good if anyone wants to catch up. - Hes good with his tech, look out DF - PS - you will need to set aside 15min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LctTPMEU3ms

Here is a link to Differences in DDR3 Vs GDDR5 at different resolutions using the radeon cards with a + Percentage increase on FPS between both
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/msi_radeon_hd_7750_2gb_ddr3_test/index39.php&usg=ALkJrhi1G4TxkhzXnvN1ZfRJ3KdXukbpQQ

and from http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gddr5/Pages/gddr5.aspx#2

 

[Biker19]

One thing to consider is that It would appear that Microsoft has given up on losing a lot of money on the console at launch with their price point. So even if Sony outsells them 2 to 1 then they aren't going into it losing money on the hardware. So if they only sell 50 million consoles next gen at a break even price to slight profit per unit hardware, then I'm sure they won't be too upset about Sony selling more. At least within reason. So they are banking that people would rather have Kinect 2.0 than better graphics. We will see.

The problem with Kinect 2.0 is that Kinect's popularity has vanished. People aren't going to get excited about another version of Kinect when most of them have already played it on Xbox 360.

Microsoft clearly didn't learn from Nintendo going from Wii to Wii U in which that just because that gimmicks have worked the first time, doesn't mean it'll work the second time.

 

[hwy_61]

The problem with Kinect 2.0 is that Kinect's popularity has vanished. People aren't going to get excited about another version of Kinect when most of them have already played it on Xbox 360.

Microsoft clearly didn't learn from Nintendo going from Wii to Wii U in which that just because that gimmicks have worked the first time, doesn't mean it'll work the second time.

Its easier and more fun to show kinect 2.0 on Ellen, good morning america, and late night shows than it is to show the gamepad.

Kinect will be fine.

 

[cyberheater]

For anyone looking to see/listen the differences in latency of GDDR5 v DDR3, L1+L2 cache on the Jaguars and benchmarks on Radeon cards I would recomend checking out the video bellow, alot of research put into 1 spot, alot will ofc know most of this but its good if anyone wants to catch up. - Hes good with his tech, look out DF - PS - you will need to set aside 15min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LctTPMEU3ms

Here is a link to Differences in DDR3 Vs GDDR5 at different resolutions using the radeon cards with a + Percentage increase on FPS between both
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/msi_radeon_hd_7750_2gb_ddr3_test/index39.php&usg=ALkJrhi1G4TxkhzXnvN1ZfRJ3KdXukbpQQ

and from http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gddr5/Pages/gddr5.aspx#2

A completely irrelevant post relative to Xbox One and PS4.

 

[ConteZero76]

One thing to consider is that It would appear that Microsoft has given up on losing a lot of money on the console at launch with their price point. So even if Sony outsells them 2 to 1 then they aren't going into it losing money on the hardware. So if they only sell 50 million consoles next gen at a break even price to slight profit per unit hardware, then I'm sure they won't be too upset about Sony selling more. At least within reason. So they are banking that people would rather have Kinect 2.0 than better graphics. We will see.

Sometime Patcher says something worthy... Microsoft is building A LOT of XBox one SKUs for october launch.

Microsoft is losing money for each built unit if those units aren't sold.

 

[Vizzeh]

A completely irrelevant post relative to Xbox One and PS4.

What how is it? Its based on latency that has been discussed a million times in this thread. About GDDR5 v DDR3 and how they perform on the same family of Radeon cards (Like the X1 and PS4) - Bit of an exageration there

 

[Doc Evils]

A completely irrelevant post relative to Xbox One and PS4.

Not really, it should give you a good idea what difference the PS4 ram will have between Xbone.

Should make MS poop their pants.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

A completely irrelevant post relative to Xbox One and PS4.

You'd be absolutely right if it weren't for how wrong you are.

The video in particular is 100% relevant to the conversation.

 

[hwy_61]

You'd be absolutely right if it weren't for how wrong you are.

 

[Snubbers]

What how is it? Its based on latency that has been discussed a million times in this thread. About GDDR5 v DDR3 and how they perform on the same family of Radeon cards (Like the X1 and PS4) - Bit of an exageration there

Whilst it's great to see that if you have a single RAM pool just for a GPU and the only difference is DDR3 vs GDDR5 in an otherwise standard off the shelf GPU configuration the GDDR5 bandwidth vs DDR latency only yields 15-30% performance difference..

But the XB1 doesn't just have a single RAM pool for the GPU (ESRAM obviously), and then you have each consoles unique architecture that again mean quite some divergence from off the shelf stuff..

I can't be arsed to watch the video, but do they specifically go into how having a secondary high bandwidth RAM cache coupled with DDR3 vs a single GDDR5 RAM pool plays out??

 

[Rafterman]

Its easier and more fun to show kinect 2.0 on Ellen, good morning america, and late night shows than it is to show the gamepad.

Kinect will be fine.

So that's Microsoft's intended audience?...bored housewives and senior citizens?

 

[Biker19]

Its easier and more fun to show kinect 2.0 on Ellen, good morning america, and late night shows than it is to show the gamepad.

Kinect will be fine.

You would have a point if Microsoft would've waited until this next gen to bring out something like Kinect.

Not really, it should give you a good idea what difference the PS4 ram will have between Xbone.

Should make MS poop their pants.

Agreed. DDR3 is very slow & outdated in this day & age while GDDR5 outshines it in every single way. Even PC developers have gone from DDR3 to it (if not already, then they will in the next year or two).

 

[Vizzeh]

Whilst it's great to see that if you have a single RAM pool just for a GPU and the only difference is DDR3 vs GDDR5 in an otherwise standard off the shelf GPU configuration the GDDR5 bandwidth vs DDR latency only yields 15-30% performance difference..

But the XB1 doesn't just have a single RAM pool for the GPU (ESRAM obviously), and then you have each consoles unique architecture that again mean quite some divergence from off the shelf stuff..

I can't be arsed to watch the video, but do they specifically go into how having a secondary high bandwidth RAM cache coupled with DDR3 vs a single GDDR5 RAM pool plays out??

Yeah they do briefly cover the eSRAM + Jaguar L1+L2 cache and latency coupled with GDDR5 also (he referenced to having other eSRAM vids also in high detail)

The graphs are only for reference without obviously factoring in the eSRAM, its still good for a basis to know how the single family card responds with DDR3 + GDDR5

- There are also AMD + Gaming industry quotes on the latency.

 

[hwy_61]

So that's Microsoft's intended audience?...bored housewives and senior citizens?

Yep, that's the only audience for those shows.

You would have a point if Microsoft would've waited until this next gen to bring out something like Kinect.

Not really. When they show new games, and how they work with the much improved kinect, it'll show great on television. I can totally picture MS showing the game streaming with your face on the corner of the screen on Fallon, or one of those late night shows.

 

[Ishan]

Yep. He just said that performance gap wasn't that big.

"brings the systems into balance"
he used the terms essentially implied they are equal

 

[LowEndTorque]

So that's Microsoft's intended audience?...bored housewives and senior citizens?

Bored housewives are the ones who decide what video game console to buy for their 5 year old kids. Don't underestimate the power of parents in the VG market.

 

[Pound_lb003]

A completely irrelevant post relative to Xbox One and PS4.

Can I just point out that this is all speculation which will all be partially irrelevant to an extent.

And in an ENTIRELY speculative thread, demonstrations of performance in a vacuum will be par for the course.

 

[Ushae]

69 pages D:

Round and around and around we go..

 

[vcc]

Bored housewives are the ones who decide what video game console to buy for their 5 year old kids. Don't underestimate the power of parents in the VG market.

They are also most susceptible to gossipy word of mouth, "June's son says the XB1 isn't very good and it's for something called 'noobs', maybe we should get little jimmy a tiger handheld. Seems like the same thing right?"

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

They are also most susceptible to gossipy word of mouth, "June's son says the XB1 isn't very good and it's for something called 'noobs', maybe we should get little jimmy a tiger handheld. Seems like the same thing right?"

tiger handhelds were awesome back in the day.

Spoiler

They were so bad but when you were a little kid but they were fun. Biggest waste of money ever.

 

[Mr. X]

Another generation of forced parity?

Well at least higher res or less frequent frame drops on PS4, I guess.

 

[p3tran]

in the future, in these threads, can we at least have more gif and less bull?

 

[Biker19]

Bored housewives are the ones who decide what video game console to buy for their 5 year old kids. Don't underestimate the power of parents in the VG market.

But when they see that they would have to pay $500 w/tax for it, they'll most likely buy their children something else like a Kinect 360 bundle for $300 w/tax instead.

tiger handhelds were awesome back in the day.

Spoiler

They were so bad but when you were a little kid but they were fun. Biggest waste of money ever.

Yeah, I remember those, too. They were fun back then, but today, no.

 

[Moneyhats2k5]

But when they see that they would have to pay $500 w/tax for it, they'll most likely buy their children something else like a Kinect 360 bundle for $300 w/tax instead.



Yeah, I remember those, too. They were fun back then, but today, no.

We might see a $50 price drop come E3 and a Kinect free version at $400