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[Davey Cakes]

I guess I never realized that Retro made MK8's retro tracks.

Shit. Props to them. Those tracks were great.

As for Tropical Freeze, the game is a MASTERPIECE of platforming design. It's legit incredible and I dare any other 2D platformer to try and stand up to it. That doesn't mean it was the game the Wii U needed at that time, and the same goes for NX. Again, just because something is quality doesn't mean it's worthwhile to everyone.

TF on the go would be pretty sweet, honestly. A re-release is deserved since the game under-performed originally, and I think if Nintendo had enough exciting content to make more people jump on NX than Wii U (by a significant margin) then a re-release would be perfect to pad out the lineup as opposed to a brand new game which would seem a bit tired.

 

[Kissenkopf]

Wii U is not a blue ocean product. Or do you think the first games announced being multi-platform HD games was an accident?

They were interested in gather mire casuals and didn't want to tackle the hardcore gaer crowd from the PS3/360 market. Of course they showed some ports but the main reason behind the Wii U were more casuals. Or do you think Nintendoland and Wario Ware was an accident? They wanted to get people who never played a game before and they thought they would get it with the two screens because it would be a way to play games on a TV like never before. No, you can't say it wasn't a blue ocean product.

 

[udivision]

Wii U was a purple ocean* product trying to go after both with a system that was too weak, expensive, and complicated for everyone. Hopefully this doesn't happen again
*

Spoiler

made up term...i think

Considering this is a hyrbird, the potential for docks and SCDs... it kind of sounds like this is exactly what's going to happen again. But who knows...

 

[diaspora]

I guess Activision should just stop making those CoD rehashes and Rockstar shouldn't bother with those bullcrap open-world games with narratives. And don't even get me started on the Pokémon Company

You, sir, have rightfully earned the daily awarded 'Twisted Shit Poster Award' that I've just come up with and likely won't see another edition.
I guess Activision should just stop making those CoD rehashes and Rockstar shouldn't bother with those bullcrap open-world games with narratives. And don't even get me started on the Pokémon Company.

 

[KingBroly]

I guess I never realized that Retro made MK8's retro tracks.

Shit. Props to them. Those tracks were great.

MK7. They didn't work on MK8

 

[GhostTrick]

TF is only great because its a blatant rehash of its already amazing last gen version. However, rehashing DKCR isn't exactly something to write home about. Especially when your console still lacked any experience grander than 2D mascot platformer rehashes. Something like Mark of the Ninja is infinitely more exciting than a DK rehash ever was. Hence TF rightfully bombed into oblivion and Nintendo would be stupid to continue betting on this tired genre.

Yeah, no. I liked Mark of the Ninja and Shank a lot, but come on, this was far from being as good as DKCR or DKCTF. Although, I agree that TF definitely felt less exciting than DKCR, for the reason we had enough of 3D platformers.

 

[rekameohs]

I guess I never realized that Retro made MK8's retro tracks.

Shit. Props to them. Those tracks were great.

Mario Kart 7, not 8

 

[James Scott]

While it is off topic, I do wonder what is the best strategy for reveal. 2 big shows leading up to the NX launch or just one big show?
MS and Sony both had at least 2 shows, could Nintendo divide up their content reveal properly while still attracting consumers?
They have a lot to prove and maybe one show with 6 months of silence isn't the best idea. Would make the late November/December reveal make a bit more sense but the wait would be killer.
MS announced their system in May then had an event in June (e3) so maybe at least october if they don't plan on having more than one event?

Considering this is a hyrbird, the potential for docks and SCDs... it kind of sounds like this is exactly what's going to happen again. But who knows...

I'm not so sure. Having a system that can plug into a TV doesn't sound too complicated and I don't think the SCD will come into play right away. The price is also supposed to be fairly low/affordable which would still be a big change from the Wii U's (STILL) $300 price.

 

[Plinko]

Taking standard X1 performance as a given for the final product seems strange for a company that somehow released a product with the Wii U's performance in 2012. It was a feat to be that bad 4 years ago.

True. The tablet controller and the lag-free streaming technology destroyed any chance it had of being a powerful system at a reasonable price.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I hope they port/remaster/expanded edition all of their Wii U games at/near launch. Having portable versions of Splatoon, Mario Maker, Xenoblade, Pokken, Breath of the Wild + Whatever else would make my head explode.

 

[Spinluck]

TF is only great because its a blatant rehash of its already amazing last gen version. However, rehashing DKCR isn't exactly something to write home about. Especially when your console still lacked any experience grander than 2D mascot platformer rehashes. Something like Mark of the Ninja is infinitely more exciting than a DK rehash ever was. Hence TF rightfully bombed into oblivion and Nintendo would be stupid to continue betting on this tired genre.

I thought both were amazing. But DK rehash? Really?

 

[diaspora]

True. The tablet controller and the lag-free streaming technology destroyed any chance it had of being a powerful system at a reasonable price.

The Wii U is like if you're writing Happy Birthday on a card and run out of room half-way through and have to cram in the rest of the letters. A company this bad at both management, branding, and hardware design doesn't get to have the benefit of the doubt IMO.

 

[Plinko]

I hope they port/remaster/expanded edition all of their Wii U games at/near launch. Having portable versions of Splatoon, Mario Maker, Xenoblade, Pokken, Breath of the Wild + Whatever else would make my head explode.

I'm curious if they actually will port Mario Maker considering what Emily and others said. Nintendo seems adamant about doing things their way, and if the Wii U version's published levels won't transfer, I don't think it will happen.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Taking standard X1 performance as a given for the final product seems strange for a company that somehow released a product with the Wii U's performance in 2012. It was a feat to be that bad 4 years ago.

The Wii U was handicapped by the decision to be BC with Wii, which Eurogamer reports is not the case with the NX. This is the first clean break they've had since the Gamecube, and we all remember the tech that went into that.

 

[MacTag]

I agree that there's no way a port of Smash Bros would be 720p on the TV, but that doesn't mean the dock has to do anything. The game could be rendered in 1080p and downsampled on the portable screen since this thing is way more powerful than the Wii U.

Downsampling is more resource intensive than just using AA solutions though, it'd be a unecessary battery drain. I think we'll see games natively render at different resolutions depending on things like output source, energy thresholds or resource requirements.

 

[Debirudog]

TF being a rehash.

Doesn't even seem like he played the game.

 

[Spieler Eins]

I guess Activision should just stop making those CoD rehashes and Rockstar shouldn't bother with those bullcrap open-world games with narratives. And don't even get me started on the Pokémon Company

You, sir, have rightfully earned the daily awarded 'Twisted Shit Poster Award' that I've just come up with and likely won't see another edition.

Your examples sell. 2D Nintendo games stopped selling adequate amounts and had a good part in killing WiiU.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I'm curious if they actually will port Mario Maker considering what Emily and others said. Nintendo seems adamant about doing things their way, and if the Wii U version's published levels won't transfer, I don't think it will happen.

I could see that. Personally, I really wouldn't mind having to redo the handful of levels I've done if they treated the NX version as more of future-proofed 'platform'. They could treat what's in the Wii U version as a base game and expand on it with DLC packs or whatever and have your levels carry across with newer platforms.

 

[diaspora]

The Wii U was handicapped by the decision to be BC with Wii, which Eurogamer reports is not the case with the NX. This is the first clean break they've had since the Gamecube, and we all remember the tech that went into that.

My point is that they've got a history of stupid-ass consistently non-sensical hardware design decisions going back to the N64.

 

[MacTag]

The Wii U was handicapped by the decision to be BC with Wii, which Eurogamer reports is not the case with the NX. This is the first clean break they've had since the Gamecube, and we all remember the tech that went into that.

First clean break on either side actually. 3DS has legacy ISA dating back to GBA.

My point is that they've got a history of stupid-ass consistently non-sensical hardware design decisions going back to the N64.

Going back further tbh. SNES CPU was a joke and chosen mainly for familiarity and compatibility.

 

[wild wild rice]

TF being a rehash.

Doesn't even seem like he played the game.

Allow me to introduce you to our resident troll...

 

[Davey Cakes]

MK7. They didn't work on MK8

Mario Kart 7, not 8

Ah, okay. I need to work on my reading.

See, that's what I thought in the first place. I knew about their involvement with MK7. Makes way more sense.

 

[Retronix]

Lol...and how do we suppose to play Breath of the Wild on a system which is weaker than the Wii U? I hope you are joking or just want to be really pessimistic because it is cool to be like that in a Nintendo thread.

The same way you can play Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors on a 3DS, poorly.

 

[Orniletter]

Taking standard X1 performance as a given for the final product seems strange for a company that somehow released a product with the Wii U's performance in 2012. It was a feat to be that bad 4 years ago.

It wasn't for a product with such a troubled development, so misguidedand probably a year later to the market than planned.

Some of you literally can't let go.

Like, if the WiiU exploded out of the gate and we'd be looking at another 100 million selling system, then sure, following in it's footsteps would make sense.

On the contrary, it's the worst performing console the company has ever released and it's problems have not only been internalized by Nintendo, those in charge have gone on record to not repeat the same mistakes again.

(Don't give me that "No game drought for the WiiU quote" things have been far too late at that point)

 

[Aostia]

meanwhile at NoA, they spend time for a quick video starring Reggie to announce...a new NEW 3DS XL!!!!

 

[Spieler Eins]

TF being a rehash.

Doesn't even seem like he played the game.

Finished it 100%, try again. The experience was pretty much identical to my 3DS replay of DKCR. Which was expected from the first looks, really. Hence the game failed to produce any kind of excitement among gamers.

 

[AGoodODST]

Your examples sell. 2D Nintendo games stopped selling adequate amounts and had a good part in killing WiiU.

Stop spouting shite.

It's cool you don't like DK, but unless you are going to back up that ridiculous assertion with data, just wheest.

No, he got a point. How many 2D platformers did we got on Wii U ?

Big releases?

NSMU, DK, Yoshi, Mario Maker off the top of my head. DK is the only one that underperformed as far as I know. And no, no one didn't buy a Wii U because of an "too many" 2D platforrmers.

 

[maxcriden]

Wii U was a purple ocean* product trying to go after both with a system that was too weak, expensive, and complicated for everyone. Hopefully this doesn't happen again
*

Spoiler

made up term...i think

Evidently it is the name of a service for psychic advice on demand. 😂

 

[Retrobox]

My point is that they've got a history of stupid-ass consistently non-sensical hardware design decisions going back to the N64.

Funny you would say that because not only was the N64 a beast but it also used cards which apparently are coming back with NX.
Let's see if Nintendo can turn around what used to be their undoing years ago.

 

[GhostTrick]

Stop spouting shite.

No, he got a point. How many 2D platformers did we got on Wii U ?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

The same way you can play Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors on a 3DS, poorly.

Despite the games not looking as nice, they don't play poorly at all. They hold up really well while playing them.

 

[Yado]

Tropical Freeze was a mistake.

 

[Plinko]

Your examples sell. 2D Nintendo games stopped selling adequate amounts and had a good part in killing WiiU.

2D platformers are from being a reason why Wii U was a huge failure. Not even in the top 5.

 

[Franz Brötchen]

Your examples sell. 2D Nintendo games stopped selling adequate amounts and had a good part in killing WiiU.

Which is why you would suggest Retro should just make Prime 4 after the last entry there sold... pretty much the same as TF but on almost a tenth of the install base.
I get it, you want to be the obvious troll, this is my last meal for you.

 

[Kissenkopf]

My point is that they've got a history of stupid-ass consistently non-sensical hardware design decisions going back to the N64.

Yes and every company does that, because they can't charge 2000 Dollar for a console. You can't have always the best components for your console.
It's right that Nintendo made some relly stupid decisions but on the other hand they made some really good.

 

[Sendou]

No, he got a point. How many 2D platformers did we got on Wii U ?

Not enough.

 

[Davey Cakes]

No, he got a point. How many 2D platformers did we got on Wii U ?

I already made a similar point as well.

I like the genre. It's one of my favorites. Wii U represented it in STELLAR fashion with some great titles but it's just not what anyone needs from Nintendo right now. Period.

 

[diaspora]

Funny you would say that because not only was the N64 a beast but it also used cards which apparently are coming back with NX.
Let's see if Nintendo can turn around what used to be their undoing years ago.

Hardware design decisions. Read: constraining storage units to 64MB for a ridiculously expensive unit.

Yes and every company does that, because they can't charge 2000 Dollar for a console. You can't have always the best components for your console.
It's right that Nintendo made some relly stupid decisions but on the other hand they made some really good.

For their consoles? Not really. Their consistent deviation from gaming industry standards set by their competition has gone back generations and has consistently kneecapped them excepting the Wii, but even then it had negative longer-term consequences.

 

[hoserx]

The same way you can play Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors on a 3DS, poorly.

Slow your roll here, fellow gaffer. The initial way I played Xenoblade was on 3ds, and it's one of my favorite games of all time. I replayed it later on Dolphin but the 3ds version is still my favorite. I can't speak about HW though.

 

[Skittzo0413]

My point is that they've got a history of stupid-ass consistently non-sensical hardware design decisions going back to the N64.

I guess there's no problem with being skeptical, but you have to at least acknowledge the differences in the company and in what the platform is going to be. The NX will not be handicapped by the Wii U's architecture, and as Orniletter said above Nintendo reps have gone on record as noting the mistakes with the Wii U and understanding that they can't repeat them. The major one being lack of launch software.

I surely expect some hardware feature which doesn't make a lot of sense to most of us but when we're talking solely about graphical performance (which your original post was about) it makes sense to understand why they made their past decisions, and how some of those reasons don't apply anymore.

 

[Spieler Eins]

2D platformers are from being a reason why Wii U was a huge failure. Not even in the top 5.

Trite software which failed to excite anyone is easily in the top 5 reasons why people didn't want a WiiU.

Which is why you would suggest Retro should just make Prime 4 after the last entry there sold... pretty much the same as TF but on almost a tenth of the install base.
I get it, you want to be the obvious troll, this is my last meal for you.

This kind of narrow thinking is why most WiiU projects were a really bad idea. Because of its success, they rehashed two kinds of successful things from the Wii to no end (2D platformers and minigame collections) and ended with a library that's utterly unremarkable and boring to most videogame consumers. Even if Metroid ,,only" sells 1-2 mil, these 1-2 mil are much more important. You need gamers of all kinds on a platform, especially hardcore gamers in the beginning (which you won't get with 2D rehash galore).

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Slow your roll here, fellow gaffer. The initial way I played Xenoblade was on 3ds, and it's one of my favorite games of all time. I replayed it later on Dolphin but the 3ds version is still my favorite. I can't speak about HW though.

Hey man, it's a bit blurrier and some of the models have less detail. That means it's unplayable shit.

 

[James Scott]

Downsampling is more resource intensive than just using AA solutions though, it'd be a unecessary battery drain. I think we'll see games natively render at different resolutions depending on things like output source, energy thresholds or resource requirements.

But it would be weird to make a game 1080p if the dock doesn't do anything as it would limit the base handheld game even if it does conserve battery.

 

[Kissenkopf]

Hardware design decisions. Read: constraining storage units to 64MB for a ridiculously expensive unit.



For their consoles? Not really. Their consistent deviation from gaming industry standards set by their competition has gone back generations and has consistently kneecapped them excepting the Wii, but even then it had negative longer-term consequences.

Not? And what is with the weird party Sony ised for their PS3? A selfmade chip? Bottlenecks everywhwere? Or now the XBox One...not state of the art tech and weird decisions with Kinect or the always online thing after the reveal. So don't tell me that this is always just Nintendo who doesnt follow the industry standards.

 

[Orniletter]

My point is that they've got a history of stupid-ass consistently non-sensical hardware design decisions going back to the N64.

And Sony made 2 massive shitheaps right after the other (the PS2 and PS3 were garbage to develop for) and came through with the nice PS4.

Like, why do you think companies are unable to learn and adapt, especially when they had a system bomb as bad as the WiiU ?

 

[diaspora]

Not? And what is with the weird party Sony ised for their PS3? A selfmade chip? Bottlenecks everywhwere? Or now the XBox One...not state of the art tech and weird decisions with Kinect or the always online thing after the reveal. So don't tell me that this is always just Nintendo who doesnt follow the industry standards.

The hardware design of the Xbox One is fine, it uses a standard CPU and GPU form the same family as it's competition. The kinect is a poor peripheral that failed just as badly as this comparison. Even the asinine design of Cell wasn't enough to handicap the PS3 considering the platform's comparatively robust digital infrastructure, blu-ray, and raw performance.

For as "hard" as the PS2 was supposed to develop for, it operating below- but within the same performance envelope as the competition in addition to it using DVDs and having comparative to the GCN's network infrastructure.

 

[MacTag]

And Sony made 2 massive shitheaps right after the other (the PS2 and PS3 were garbage to develop for) and came through with the nice PS4.

Like, why do you think companies are unable to learn, especially when they had a system bomb as bad as the WiiU ?

Pointing to N64 actually sort of goes against his point anyway. It was followed up by Gamecube which was one of the most efficient and elegant console architectures of it's day. And sadly it didn't matter.

But it would be weird to make a game 1080p if the dock doesn't do anything as it would limit the base handheld game even if it does conserve battery.

Right, which is why the dock will probably do something. Even if it's only a slight speed bump / lifting energy thresholds for the tablet when docked, like hundreds of other mobile devices do.

 

[Instro]

Not? And what is with the weird party Sony ised for their PS3? A selfmade chip? Bottlenecks everywhwere? Or now the XBox One...not state of the art tech and weird decisions with Kinect or the always online thing after the reveal. So don't tell me that this is always just Nintendo who doesnt follow the industry standards.

I think it's important to note that the types of hardware decisions Nintendo has made over the last 20 years are the kind that cut them off from segments of the market and 3rd party support. Both Sony and MS have made weird decisions over the years, but nothing that limited the audience for their consoles, or fucked then over for 3rd party support.

 

[jmizzal]

Apple event Sept 7th and still no date for the NX

 

[Kissenkopf]

I think it's important to note that the types of hardware decisions Nintendo has made over the last 20 years are the kind that cut them off from segments of the market and 3rd party support. Both Sony and MS have made weird decisions over the years, but nothing that limited the audience for their consoles, or fucked then over for 3rd party support.

Absolutly true. And that is nothing I would ever deny. Jut my point was, that other companies can make mistakes too and learned from them and even Nintendo can do that. we should just wait until we see the NX and not say that they will make stupid design decisions again.