It looks like a surefire back to back championship.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
ESPN Ranks LeBron as the #3 NBA Player All-Time. What say you?
- Thread starter GhostWriter24
- Start date
- Status
It looks like a surefire back to back championship.
Did you miss when Hakeem absolutely dismantled him?
#3 for Lebron is ridiculous, in the top 10 is even debatable.
Dumb to argue either way. They completed one another.
Thats not really much an argument.
MJ never won shit without Pippen. Pippin came within a few seconds of making it to the Finals against the most dominant team of the 2000s. He also carried the Bulls on his back and should have beaten the Knicks by himself but got fucked by the refs.
A better argument would be Bill Cartwright and Jordan. Both are pretty close in my eyes. On the court and in the showers it was a pretty even matchup.
Any ranking of the all time players is retarded. LeBron is one of the best ever. After that its all subjective bullshit. For me his 2-4 Finals record and the fact that he was never really able to elevate guys like Bosh and Love hurts him to me. But he is undoubtedly one of the best. I do like that they gave Hakeem some props. He carried some straight up garbage to the Finals. And en route I saw him rip off and eat David Robinson's penis live on the NBA on NBC.
Concerning LeBron would put him behind Cedric Ceballos but certainly ahead of bum ass bums like Jordan.
Kurt Angle
Member
melo is top 5
He said prime Shaq (no one stopping Lakers Shaq), and Hakeem dismantled Orlando Shaq who only had three years of NBA experience under his belt. However, he still impressively led his team to the finals.
And Pippen didn't win shit without Jordan. What broken fucking logic are you working with?
AngmarsKing701
Member
Always a treat. Depart until the next bat signal, oh winged one!
theignoramus
Member
The problem with ESPN is that they set the narrative going forward, with their brand power. These fucks were claiming for a decade that it was Kobe, not Tim Duncan who was the greatest player of his generation.
Now they realize what Kobe is like without a monster like Shaq or a selfless player like Gasol or Lamar Odom and they backtrack like bitches. I hate ESPN.
Now they realize what Kobe is like without a monster like Shaq or a selfless player like Gasol or Lamar Odom and they backtrack like bitches. I hate ESPN.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Cedric was definitely an underrated force of nature. He once scored 50 points. Not in a season, in a SINGLE GAME. By himself. Don't believe me here's video evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiltPWeQXYo
He also once won the dunk contest with his eyes closed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiltPWeQXYo
He also once won the dunk contest with his eyes closed.
Thank you
I used some advanced metrics on the calculator that comes installed with my iMac and apparently Ced could have averaged 50 points a game and dunked from the 3 point line on a regular basis if he went full force with his eyes open.
Players better than Lebron, off the top of my head:
Bill Russell
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Michael Jordan
Oscar Robertson
Shaquille O'neal
Tim Duncan
Wilt Chamberlain
And maybe Steph Curry, when all is said and done. So Lebron is probably top ten, but definately not #3. Now, if he adds a couple more titles, maybe, but not with only two.
Bill Russell
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Michael Jordan
Oscar Robertson
Shaquille O'neal
Tim Duncan
Wilt Chamberlain
And maybe Steph Curry, when all is said and done. So Lebron is probably top ten, but definately not #3. Now, if he adds a couple more titles, maybe, but not with only two.
Ninja Scooter
Member
ryutaro's mama
Member
His skills were so in-cred-ible.
Hey thats not fair.
If we include off the court accomplishments then Ced easily surpasses all of these bums.
AdventureRacing
Member
I haven't watched enough basketball to weigh in really but one thing I don't understand is people using lebrons finals record against him. To me getting to a championship final is still impressive and he was getting teams there that had no real right of being there. It's almost as if he had just let those teams flounder and do poorly people would rate him better.
2 championships and 4 lost finals is better than 2 championships and no other finals to me.
I don't really like lebron I just don't agree with that argument.
2 championships and 4 lost finals is better than 2 championships and no other finals to me.
I don't really like lebron I just don't agree with that argument.
There's really two different arguments.
Rings and banners, acolades etc. Basically accomplishments. Lebron can't be considered top 5 with his record as is. It seems he comes up big about as many times as he absolutely shrinks. Some absolute feats in the playoffs and as many fails as well. And a terrible finals record to boot.
But ability wise, I don't think there's any question. Seriously that finals stat is Oscar-esque. He has the ability to dominate a game like few players can. Its a shame he's already seemingly passed his prime. He has always had different flaws at points in his career but that unstoppable size and athleticism carried him.
Rings and banners, acolades etc. Basically accomplishments. Lebron can't be considered top 5 with his record as is. It seems he comes up big about as many times as he absolutely shrinks. Some absolute feats in the playoffs and as many fails as well. And a terrible finals record to boot.
But ability wise, I don't think there's any question. Seriously that finals stat is Oscar-esque. He has the ability to dominate a game like few players can. Its a shame he's already seemingly passed his prime. He has always had different flaws at points in his career but that unstoppable size and athleticism carried him.
2-4 doesn't tell the story.
But neither does 5 straight Finals run in a pathetic eastern conference.
The truth is always a little more complicated.
Its never black and white. These lists are themselves stupid and ESPN is obviously doing it to spark clicks and the debate that will go on all of their media outlets for the next few days.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Toni Kukoc > Pippen.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
Some of these posts are serious with the steph>bron argument, arent they?
Other then shooting wide open jumpers what exactly was he better than Pippen at?
Not refusing to play in the final seconds in the '94 playoffs against the Knicks.
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=bYcjCoy7R4I
He also ran the worst basketball camp in history back in 1995. My friend said he showed up once for 5 mins and told them how to do layups.
dragonyeuw
Member
1. MJ was 4 years into his career when Pippen came onboard, and was on shit rosters before Pippen and Grant developed into dependable 2nd and 3rd options. What the fuck was MJ on his own supposed to do against the Celtics and Bad boy Pistons? The same shit that happened to Lebron against the Warriors in last year's finals: a superior talent losing to a superior *team*.
2.Pippen wasn't the best player on the Portland team when they almost knocked off the Lakers in 2000. He was 34, and past his prime post-back surgery. Pippen at best was the third best player on that team, and that team was probably top to bottom the most talented even if you took Pippen off it.
3. Yes, Pippen did almost carry the Bulls past the knicks, but he didn't. And the reality is, MJ on that team wouldn't have let the series get to a point where it was decided on a bullshit call. The difference between having MJ on that team, and not, is the difference between winning a 4th straight title, and 'they would have won IF'.
And debunked.
Uhh, no. 2 of the 4 seasons in Miami, they were sub-60 wins. This is with a team with 2 other future MVP players and in the super soft Eastern Conference. Also, the third season was a lockout year and their win percentage would have put them under 60 wins if it was projected to a full season. So really, he was only 60+ wins on an all-star team once out of four tries in Miami. In Cleveland, he had only 2 60+ win seasons, again in the super soft Eastern Conference. And he only had 53 wins last season with their stacked team, again, in the super soft Eastern Conference.
Thats a damned lie. I demand that you punch your friend in his ugly face.
Anyone that got 5 minutes with Cedric was able to do reverse windmills.
Steph has a lot more work to put in his career but he might be the best offensive player I have ever seen. He's like a bigger, shiftier version of Steve Nash with better handles and a better shot. He doesn't really lack anything but size or athleticism compared to other players.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I wish penny hardaway never got hurt. I thought he was on his way to all time greatness when I saw him play in the 90s.
He had pippen's athleticism with Magic's court vision but unlike lebron he had a jumpshot and a killer instinct.
He had pippen's athleticism with Magic's court vision but unlike lebron he had a jumpshot and a killer instinct.
Boombloxer
Member
Artest has also said the same thing about Brandon Roy. Grain of salt.
But I also didn't contest that some of those shots are bad.
But these guys?
Kobe ate them alive too. And kept feeding.
Because that was Kobe's job. He broke them in 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2008.
You can see in his body language--Duncan knew that none of his boys could do it, and when he tried, he got dunked on or J in his face.
Almost fell for it.
ryutaro's mama
Member
YouTube is open all night for anyone still doubting this.
Depends on how it's said. In 2016, Curry is definitely the best player in the NBA. Bron is on the decline.
Historically he's obviously not on Lebron's level, though
yet
SenjutsuSage
Banned
He isn't better than Kobe in his prime. He's a better team player and is just generally better at creating opportunities for his team, but he isn't better than Kobe prime.
WesternHeretic
Member
His logic is Magic Johnson is the greatest and any one with the same initial is shit =)
MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Bron
Bird
Wilt ( actually the more I think about it the more I want to drop him even lower)
Duncan
Oscar
Kobe
Shaq ( I want to put him lower too but don't think I actually can make a semi decent case for).
Dream (I want to put him higher but it's hard to put a case for him against some of those guys up there even though he's on my personal favorites)
Dirk definitely a legend. One of my favourite players ever.
And to beat the super team "not 5, not 6, not 7" Miami Heat team? Amazing.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Pretty sure Tyson Chandler was a defensive beast that year.
Everything isn't offense.
Chauncey Billups won FMVP on a team of defensive spare parts.
DoubleTake
Member
05-06 Kobe is probably the last time we'll see a guard dominate the league like that.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
The whole point of the list is that it takes their career in perspective
Lebron dominated for like a decade. Curry might get 3-4 years of being the best in the league
ryutaro's mama
Member
07 Kobe wishes he was the beast 05-06 Kobe was.
The team was still relatively the same defensively the following year without Tyson Chandler. Tyson Chandler's role is often overblown. He was absolutely a positive to the team, but people forget that the Mavericks went from having Erik Dampier as their center to Tyson Chandler. Erik Dampier was a huge negative to the team, so the delta between Erik Dampier and Tyson Chandler makes it seem like Tyson Chandler was some all-star player. He wasn't. He was a role player. Jason Terry was without a doubt the second most important player on that team. Brendan Haywood was a far better sub-in for anchoring the defense compared to the next person to play the 2-man game with Dirk on offense.
Rasheed Wallace is a better player than Jason Terry and Ben Wallace was a better defensive player than Tyson Chandler.
Dream's first championship had Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, and Robert Horry as starters.
DoubleTake
Member
I edited lol
ryutaro's mama
Member
- Status