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[Hale-XF11]

They should advertise it as being 2/3 off the regular price of a SNES game. Surely, everyone will understand what a great deal that is.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I already preordered my copy for like 7 bucks so it's whatever but are they actually charging $15 per monster and $7.50 per character?

Try reading the thread

 

[Ryuuga]

I don't fault anyone involved with the game for defending it, but I'm entirely against all this DLC and pre-order bonus nonsense. If rising costs for AAA means staggered morsels of content, then I'll continue embracing indie development as I have been.

 

[geordiemp]

Gob smacked.

A full price AAA game should have at least a single player or coop main coarse and a multiplayer sweet.

OK< some games go heavy on the main course, and then put some DLC in other modes (like TLOU). That's acceptable, as people see the value in the base product.

But a multiplayer only game like Evolve that is almost promoted as full price AAA should not have multiplayer DLC costs for skins.

People moan about Destiny value, with about 20 single player missions, a raid, 6 strikes and you still get a multiplayer with around 10 maps that have no DLC skins etc.

So no, evolve is not offering a lot of value compared to its competition, to add DLC costs for skins and monsters is a bit much. People go crazy at Ubisoft for putting micro transactions into the single player...quite rightly.

To the dev on here, compare what you are offering to many large game competitors, gamers are right to be annoyed at the potential value prospect and say get lost.

 

[Dash Kappei]

So the beta it's only 4 days (15th/19th with the campaign stuff coming on the 17th, so just 2 days)?
It doesn't even details the timetable on the website, how am I supposed to know the starting time/ending time GMT?

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I don't fault anyone involved with the game for defending it, but I'm entirely against all this DLC and pre-order bonus nonsense. If rising costs for AAA means staggered morsels of content, then I'll continue embracing indie development as I have been.

Yeah, this is the interesting bit for me too. Are we enabling studios/publishers to keep justifying the crazy budgets and DLC Strategy to offset the cost by out constant preordering? Have we enabled this cycle through our purchases?

I really hope this thread doesn't turn into a bashing, as there are some interesting points & beliefs raised in the Turtlerock Studio post. They will feel justified in their methods, while clearly gamers feel differently.

How did we get to this point?

 

[Weltall Zero]

It really puts into perspective the value of Nintendo's DLC. For the same price as a single monster here (for a game already starved for content), you can get pretty much everything in Hyrule Warriors. That's like 6 new characters/fighting styles, two new adventure maps (easily over 100 hours to complete them), quite a few costumes and probably more stuff I'm forgetting.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Gob smacked.

A full price AAA game should have at least a single player or coop main coarse and a multiplayer sweet.

OK< some games go heavy on the main course, and then put some DLC in other modes (like TLOU). That's acceptable, as people see the value in the base product.

But a multiplayer only game like Evolve that is almost promoted as full price AAA should not have multiplayer DLC costs for skins.

People moan about Destiny value, with about 20 single player missions, a raid, 6 strikes and you still get a multiplayer with around 10 maps that have no DLC skins etc.

So no, evolve is not offering a lot of value compared to its competition, to add DLC costs for skins and monsters is a bit much.

To the dev on here, compare what you are offering to many large game competitors, gamers are right to be annoyed at the potential value prospect and say get lost.

Well, at least maps are free.
But yeah, DLC pricing plans are insanely overpriced. Will play the beta and decide, but no way I'm buying this before it hits €30 and some maps have been released, even if happen to like it.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Gob smacked.

A full price AAA game should have at least a single player or coop main coarse and a multiplayer sweet.

OK< some games go heavy on the main course, and then put some DLC in other modes (like TLOU). That's acceptable, as people see the value in the base product.

But a multiplayer only game like Evolve that is almost promoted as full price AAA should not have multiplayer DLC costs for skins.

People moan about Destiny value, with about 20 single player missions, a raid, 6 strikes and you still get a multiplayer with around 10 maps that have no DLC skins etc.

So no, evolve is not offering a lot of value compared to its competition, to add DLC costs for skins and monsters is a bit much.

To the dev on here, compare what you are offering to many large game competitors, gamers are right to be annoyed at the potential value prospect and say get lost.

Evolve does have single player/offline. Very similar to Left 4 Dead in that regard. Campaign mode and 4 other modes (Hunt, Evacuation, some egg objective mode, and basically a horde mode).

Maps are free, and I don't see the issue for cosmetics and even future DLC additions being a cost. It's how much these cost (despite what astroturf posts want to argue) that is the issue. If the $15 was the one monster, 4 hunters, and skin, it wouldn't be so bad, just as if the Season Pass was for 3 monster/hunter pack drops rather than just the one.

 

[The Lamp]

It really puts into perspective the value of Nintendo's DLC. For the same price as a single monster here (for a game already starved for content), you can get pretty much everything in Hyrule Warriors. That's like 6 new characters/fighting styles, two new adventure maps (easily over 100 hours to complete them), quite a few costumes and probably more stuff I'm forgetting.

This is why I've been rewarding the shit out of Nintendo by convincing my friends to buy Wii Us and games like Bayonetta 2. Nintendo may not be great at many things, but they are definitely pro-consumer when it comes to DLC/game content. I still haven't unlocked everything in Bayonetta 2.

 

[Codeacious]

I was thinking I might grab this if it looked like it wasn't going to be a burning wreck at launch (I haven't played the beta) as my friends were sorta interested, but I think I'll just go through some more of my backlog instead.

I really hope this sort of behavior stops soon. I feel like more and more people are buying less games at launch because of stuff like this, but that's just anecdotal evidence (

Spoiler

and wishful thinking

) speaking.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Yeah, this is the interesting bit for me too. Are we enabling studios/publishers to keep justifying the crazy budgets and DLC Strategy to offset the cost by out constant preordering? Have we enabled this cycle through our purchases?

I really hope this thread doesn't turn into a bashing, as there are some interesting points & beliefs raised in the Turtlerock Studio post. They will feel justified in their methods, while clearly gamers feel differently.

How did we get to this point?

people bought horse armor

 

[Skyzard]

I have faith, will be going in for the basic preorder.

Especially as people can play with others who bought the DLC even when they use the characters.

Sucks it's releasing with only 3 monsters (unless you pre-order). 4 should have been the minimum imo. I'm alright to chip in (buy some monster dlc later) to keep the servers going though, I know it's probably not going to be insanely popular but damn is it fun.

 

[-MD-]

Try reading the thread

Thanks for the advice but I already did. From the OP.

The four playable Hunter characters will be available for purchase individually outside of the Evolve Hunting Season Pass for $7.49 each.

Behemoth will be available for purchase this spring for $14.99

As I said.

 

[Klyka]

I have faith, will be going in for the basic preorder.

Especially as people can play with others who bought the DLC even when they use the characters.

Sucks it's releasing with only 3 monsters (unless you pre-order). 4 should have been the minimum imo. I'm alright to chip in (buy some monster dlc later) to keep the servers going though, I know it's probably not going to be insanely popular but damn is it fun.

Even when you preorder it still releases with 3 monsters.
The 4 monster will be "released sometime after release".

 

[Aaron]

This is like the limbo contest of screwing the consumer. Seeing how low you can go with shallow content in the main game, and hit them with DLC.

 

[NIGHT-]

This is what my hobby has been reduced to..

- remasters of games that came out last year
- preorder exclusive content
- stripped down base games in favor of over priced dlc
- season passes
- paying for p2p networks

How I miss the days of quake 3 where all the map packs were free

 

[The Xtortionist]

This is what my hobby has been reduced to..

- remasters of games that came out last year
- preorder exclusive content
- stripped down base games in favor of over priced dlc
- season passes
- paying for p2p networks

How I miss the days of quake 3 where all the map packs were free

Evolve's maps will be free.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

This is what my hobby has been reduced to..

- remasters of games that came out last year
- preorder exclusive content
- stripped down base games in favor of over priced dlc
- season passes
- paying for p2p networks

How I miss the days of quake 3 where all the map packs were free

Maybe you should expand your hobby. Plenty of games that don't fall into those.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

So I am going to attempt to bring some reason to this thread. Probably won't work but I am going to try. I am going to explain to you guys why things are the way they are right now and try to bring some perspective.

First lets talk about game prices. It is no secret that the amount of time and money it takes to make a game has gone up exponentially since the SNES days of 2D sprites. Creating 3D models with animation, 3D worlds and all the online components takes a freaking ton of work. This leads to huge budgets but the price of games has actually DROPPED by a significant margin over the years. The price of an SNES game on launch day was $50 or $60 depending on the game. If you adjust for inflation that is about $80 - $95 in todays money. Most games now cost $60 which is about two thirds LOWER than they were in the SNES days. In short we are getting a HUGE discount right off the bat.

Now lets talk about DLC. Since game makers can't sell the games at a high enough price to make their money back they have to make that up in DLC. This obviously leads them to push DLC hard because they need it to sell or the game won't make enough money. One of the most well loved and respected games this generation is League of Legends. They have over 100 different DLC champions now, each costing roughly $7. If someone bought all of them they would have spent over $700. Yet people are ok with this. Sure, you can unlock them by playing the game but the vast majority of people don't have the time to spend to unlock all the characters. For most people, if they want to play a certain character the only option is the buy it and they do it all the time. Lets compare that to Evolve. They have 15 characters in the base game for $60. That is $4 each, cheaper than LoL, AND you get the rest of the game, all the modes, maps etc. The DLC characters, assuming you don't preorder and buy the season pass, are $35 for 5 characters which is $7 each, roughly the same as LoL. If you pre-order that drops the price to $20 for 5 characters, $4 each. Using a little math and rational thought you can see that these prices are very reasonable, especially if you pre-order.

A common misconception with DLC is that it is done before launch, put on the disc, and then they charge people to unlock it. I will give you guys a little glimpse into how the game development process works so you guys can understand why this is. A character's development generally starts with a design document and some concept art. From there it goes to modeling and programmers start working on prototype code using another model or sometimes just a sphere. After the model is done it goes to the animators to be animated. Once they are done the programmers hook up the model in game and get all the animations playing at the correct times. After that there is a lot of playtesting and balance work done. Then the AI needs to be done, if the game has bots. This whole process usually takes about 6 months, sometimes more. Marketing will usually start after the character is modeled. At that point they can start making cinematics and other promotional material. The announcement is made to "buy the DLC character!" but interally the character is most likely still 2-3 months from completion with lots of animation, playtesting, balancing and possibly AI to be done. Once all the content for the base game is done the build is sent to MS and Sony for approval. At this point DLC work has already started, with some of the models done and probably a prototype in place. A few weeks later they tell you that you weren't approved and give you a list of things to fix, then you fix them and resubmit. More weeks go by then they approve you and the game has gone 'gold' and starts being printed on discs. BUT the build they printed had the DLC character model on it! The download is only a new EXE and a few script files, thus very small, and people freak out because "they sold us DLC that was already on the disk!!!". The model was finished when the game was printed on discs, but it was MANY months from actually being finished.

So what about pre-orders? Most would say they are a scam to get you to shell out before the reviews hit. In fact they are something created by Gamestop and other retailers to help them judge demand and make sure they order enough copies. Do you notice that games hardly ever sell out anymore? It is because of pre-orders. Retailers are much better able to judge demand for a particular title if they push pre-orders. Retailers demand pre-order bonuses from developers to give people more incentive to pre-order. In exchange they create signage and other in-store marketing for your game. If you give them EXCLUSIVE pre-order bonuses then they will push your game for you even more. That is why so many games are doing pre-order bonuses, sometimes retailer exclusive ones, because it gives the title a LOT of cheap marketing. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with tricking people into buying bad games; that is what review embargoes are for!

I hope that this has been given you guys a small glimpse as to why things are the way they are. Maybe you can understand now why these things need to exist and not spew out so much unadulterated hate on developers that use them.

So, $60 breaks into 15 $4 characters? Everything else is free?

How about a sku with one hunter and monster for $8 then?

How do you justify $15 for one monster and 1 skin with all this $4 talk?

 

[Lord of Castamere]

This is what my hobby has been reduced to..

- remasters of games that came out last year

Why is this a bad thing again? If TLOU hadn't been ported to PS4 I'd never have played it. I also got to play it at a FPS and resolution that wasn't possible on PS3.

 

[geordiemp]

Evolve does have single player/offline. Very similar to Left 4 Dead in that regard. Campaign mode and 4 other modes (Hunt, Evacuation, some egg objective mode, and basically a horde mode).

Maps are free, and I don't see the issue for cosmetics and even future DLC additions being a cost. It's how much these cost (despite what astroturf posts want to argue) that is the issue. If the $15 was the one monster, 4 hunters, and skin, it wouldn't be so bad, just as if the Season Pass was for 3 monster/hunter pack drops rather than just the one.

Its been marketed very badly then, as a gamer who buys games every few weeks on Ps4 and reads GAF / Eurogamer regularly I thought this was a 4 vs 1 asymmetrical multiplayer with different modes and options for bots (like COD training mode offline).

Saying a multiplayer game mode like COD has TDM / Search / Capture flag / king of kill, Kill confirmed with humans / bots to most people is still just multiplayer only with BOT options.

Does Evolve have a single player or coop story mode ? Never seen it.

 

[PaperFlame]

I was excited for this game..

 

[Comfort Jones]

I went from being so goddamn excited to this game, even really enjoying the test, to just absolutely unable to bring myself to prepurchase this. It's just so against my principles, from the unlocks to this dirty shit.

Way to go 2k!

 

[NIGHT-]

Why is this a bad thing again? If TLOU hadn't been ported to PS4 I'd never have played it. I also got to play it at a FPS and resolution that wasn't possible on PS3.

At the same time people are wondering if BC is ever coming back... It's not, not when "hd editions/remasters" sell so well

 

[Lord of Castamere]

At the same time people are wondering if BC is ever coming back... It's not, not when "hd editions/remasters" sell so well

I couldn't have played TLOU at 1080p 60fps with BC though...

 

[Zizbuka]

When I see a gain, any game, with tons of paid DLC before the game releases, I instantly lose interest. Maybe some day when the "Complete Edition" is $20 I'll consider it.

Hope this strategy works out for ya though.

 

[NIGHT-]

I couldn't have played TLOU at 1080p 60fps with BC though...

And again on playstation 5 when it's remastered in 4k!

 

[malfcn]

Buy the dlc after the bomba for more savings. This dlc/apc stuff is out of hand.

 

[Klyka]

Its been marketed very badly then, as a gamer who buys games every few weeks on Ps4 and reads GAF / Eurogamer regularly I thought this was a 4 vs 1 asymmetrical multiplayer with different modes and options for bots (like COD training mode offline).

Saying a multiplayer game mode like COD has TDM / Search / Capture flag / king of kill, Kill confirmed with humans / bots to most people is still just multiplayer only with BOT options.

Does Evolve have a single player or coop story mode ? Never seen it.

Evolve has a "you can play with bots" mode which lets you play the game like you would multiplayer only that everyone is a bot.

You can also have bots in multiplayer to fill up empty spaces.

You can also unlock everything in the game via playing with bots.

 

[NIGHT-]

When I see a gain, any game, with tons of paid DLC before the game releases, I instantly lose interest. Maybe some day when the "Complete Edition" is $20 I'll consider it.

Hope this strategy works out for ya though.

That's what I'm doing with destiny

 

[geordiemp]

Evolve has a "you can play with bots" mode which lets you play the game like you would multiplayer only that everyone is a bot.

You can also have bots in multiplayer to fill up empty spaces.

You can also unlock everything in the game via playing with bots.

So no is the answer I am reading, its multiplier only with various multiplayer modes with a bot offline mode (Its still the same gameplay / maps / modes just AI controlled option for some characters).

OK my initial thought still stands, its not a high value proposition being multiplayer only for a triple AAA game even with offline bots and a few multiplayer variations.

 

[MARNEY]

Wow, definitely not a day 1 purchase for me...

 

[VibratingDonkey]

(EDIT) Interesting quote...



http://evolvegame.com/news/the-evolve-digital-versions-breakdown

And now for the press release. My head hurts now. Here we go...



http://ir.take2games.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=86428&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2007327

Jumblywordsaladmarketingmesssayswhat?
I can't even look at that without not understanding what the hell it's saying, much less read it. It's about as impenetrable as that sentence just then.

I assume what they're trying to tell me is: "Don't pre-order. Wait for the Complete Edition."

 

[-Deimos]

I love Evolve but this is fucking unacceptable. Does the hunting SP even include the fifth monster, Behemoth for those who didn't pre-order or those extra two hunters from the PC edition?

 

[hawk2025]

So I am going to attempt to bring some reason to this thread. Probably won't work but I am going to try. I am going to explain to you guys why things are the way they are right now and try to bring some perspective.

First lets talk about game prices. It is no secret that the amount of time and money it takes to make a game has gone up exponentially since the SNES days of 2D sprites. Creating 3D models with animation, 3D worlds and all the online components takes a freaking ton of work. This leads to huge budgets but the price of games has actually DROPPED by a significant margin over the years. The price of an SNES game on launch day was $50 or $60 depending on the game. If you adjust for inflation that is about $80 - $95 in todays money. Most games now cost $60 which is about two thirds LOWER than they were in the SNES days. In short we are getting a HUGE discount right off the bat.

Now lets talk about DLC. Since game makers can't sell the games at a high enough price to make their money back they have to make that up in DLC. This obviously leads them to push DLC hard because they need it to sell or the game won't make enough money. One of the most well loved and respected games this generation is League of Legends. They have over 100 different DLC champions now, each costing roughly $7. If someone bought all of them they would have spent over $700. Yet people are ok with this. Sure, you can unlock them by playing the game but the vast majority of people don't have the time to spend to unlock all the characters. For most people, if they want to play a certain character the only option is the buy it and they do it all the time. Lets compare that to Evolve. They have 15 characters in the base game for $60. That is $4 each, cheaper than LoL, AND you get the rest of the game, all the modes, maps etc. The DLC characters, assuming you don't preorder and buy the season pass, are $35 for 5 characters which is $7 each, roughly the same as LoL. If you pre-order that drops the price to $20 for 5 characters, $4 each. Using a little math and rational thought you can see that these prices are very reasonable, especially if you pre-order.

A common misconception with DLC is that it is done before launch, put on the disc, and then they charge people to unlock it. I will give you guys a little glimpse into how the game development process works so you guys can understand why this is. A character's development generally starts with a design document and some concept art. From there it goes to modeling and programmers start working on prototype code using another model or sometimes just a sphere. After the model is done it goes to the animators to be animated. Once they are done the programmers hook up the model in game and get all the animations playing at the correct times. After that there is a lot of playtesting and balance work done. Then the AI needs to be done, if the game has bots. This whole process usually takes about 6 months, sometimes more. Marketing will usually start after the character is modeled. At that point they can start making cinematics and other promotional material. The announcement is made to "buy the DLC character!" but interally the character is most likely still 2-3 months from completion with lots of animation, playtesting, balancing and possibly AI to be done. Once all the content for the base game is done the build is sent to MS and Sony for approval. At this point DLC work has already started, with some of the models done and probably a prototype in place. A few weeks later they tell you that you weren't approved and give you a list of things to fix, then you fix them and resubmit. More weeks go by then they approve you and the game has gone 'gold' and starts being printed on discs. BUT the build they printed had the DLC character model on it! The download is only a new EXE and a few script files, thus very small, and people freak out because "they sold us DLC that was already on the disk!!!". The model was finished when the game was printed on discs, but it was MANY months from actually being finished.

So what about pre-orders? Most would say they are a scam to get you to shell out before the reviews hit. In fact they are something created by Gamestop and other retailers to help them judge demand and make sure they order enough copies. Do you notice that games hardly ever sell out anymore? It is because of pre-orders. Retailers are much better able to judge demand for a particular title if they push pre-orders. Retailers demand pre-order bonuses from developers to give people more incentive to pre-order. In exchange they create signage and other in-store marketing for your game. If you give them EXCLUSIVE pre-order bonuses then they will push your game for you even more. That is why so many games are doing pre-order bonuses, sometimes retailer exclusive ones, because it gives the title a LOT of cheap marketing. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with tricking people into buying bad games; that is what review embargoes are for!

I hope that this has been given you guys a small glimpse as to why things are the way they are. Maybe you can understand now why these things need to exist and not spew out so much unadulterated hate on developers that use them.

By all means, raise the fucking price.

At least I'll know what I'm actually getting once I buy the game instead of not only having to pre-order, but also buying a year's worth of stuff ahead of time for anywhere between $70 and $100. All while being told what an amazing deal it is that the "first one was on us" and that it was actually "$35 worth of content for $30".

You are not bringing reason into the thread. You are bringing your rationalization.


Turtle Rock, 2K, whoever else was involved -- stop and THINK why the reaction to Evolve's DLC announcement was so much more toxic than other games. Just THINK about what was done differently, and how it relates to the game being made/published by you. Think for a bit about the incentives, economics, and importantly the psychology of how this stuff is being packaged, presented, and sold to us.

If you still find success in this pricing and monetization structure in the short run, consider this: You are also poisoning the well, even if you manage to get a few good buckets out of it this time.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

So no is the answer I am reading, its multiplier only with various multiplayer modes with a bot offline mode (Its still the same gameplay / maps / modes just AI controlled option for some characters).

OK my initial thought still stands, its not a high value proposition being multiplayer only for a triple AAA game even with offline bots and a few multiplayer variations.

A 'few' is kinda understating it. The Evacuation mode has potential. Sadly only Xbone users get to partake in the beta, because Microsoft Money.

http://evolvegame.com/news/evolves-evacuation-explained

 

[Papacheeks]

WELP!

I didn't see value for 60$ game with one or 2 modes in it after playing the Alpha, but now after seeing their DLC plan I can make the decisions not to support this game.

I'll buy it when it's 5 bucks on steam sale in a couple years.

Don't know if it's Turtle Rock or more 2K with the pushy DLC's like they did with Borderlands, but they have totally fucked this game.

If the game does better than Titanfall I'll be shocked.

 

[BurningNad]

I am really excited for this game. That being said, this DLC shit and these BS "deals" suck dirty asshole.

I think I'll just preorder the regular edition so I get the Behemoth for free, then wait and see on the other stuff. I'm more interested in playing as the Monsters anyway.

Hopefully there are some deals on the DLC relatively quickly. This is really shitty to do to the fans. Meh.

 

[War Peaceman]

Won't this have serious impact on game balance? What with a whole new monster being gated.

The more that an audience is segmented, the more troublesome it becomes for communities to develop. It is no coincidence that many of the biggest multiplayer games revolve around free-to-access content. This game had enough problems to begin with, this is a death sentence.

 

[Real Hero]

Looking at this game just makes me want go play L4D2

 

[The Xtortionist]

Does Evolve have a single player or coop story mode ? Never seen it.

No. The game is a collection of 4v1 multiplayer game modes that can be played with humans or bots.

 

[Papercuts]

I love Evolve but this is fucking unacceptable. Does the hunting SP even include the fifth monster, Behemoth for those who didn't pre-order or those extra two hunters from the PC edition?

Nope, only the hunters. And the special PC version mentions another monster beyond behemoth and two more hunters on top of that pack, so if they keep the same pricing model that'll add up quick.

I've been really excited for the game but this pricing is disgusting. I don't blame anyone on the fence losing interest completely after this.

No. The game is a collection of 4v1 multiplayer game modes that can be played with humans or bots.

It does have a story that changes as you play through it, though it is still linked together by the same modes.

 

[hawk2025]

Won't this have serious impact on game balance? The more that an audience is segmented, the more troublesome it becomes for communities to develop. It is no coincidence that many of the biggest multiplayer games revolve around free-to-access content. This game had enough problems to begin with, this is a death sentence.

We don't know.

But apparently you shouldn't wait and find out, because you will miss out on the amazing $15 value!

 

[Creaking]

I miss Left 4 Dead's DLC pricing.

 

[Klyka]

A 'few' is kinda understating it. The Evacuation mode has potential. Sadly only Xbone users get to partake in the beta, because Microsoft Money.



http://evolvegame.com/news/evolves-evacuation-explained

I've seen this mode being played, it's not NEARLY as good as you might think.

All it does is add these modifiers to the map which from what I have seen make 0 overall difference and it lets you vote on which map you want next out of a pool of 2 maps/modes.

It's basically nothing.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

That quote in the OP is fucking ridiculous. I can't believe that made it past a PR person.

 

[-Deimos]

Nope, only the hunters. And the special PC version mentions another monster beyond behemoth and two more hunters on top of that pack, so if they keep the same pricing model that'll add up quick.

I've been really excited for the game but this pricing is disgusting. I don't blame anyone on the fence losing interest completely after this.

Fucking ridiculous. I hope to god that there'll be enough people playing after this bullshit, but now that seems unlikely.

 

[StayDead]

Was hoping for Left 4 Dead style free DLC. I'm out. I didn't really like the look of the game in Alpha so this has confirmed it as a no buy for me.

 

[chadskin]

Would like to be back in the expansion days.

Please take me with you. PLEASE.