ClosingADoor
Member
Try to get around a major city like London or New York any other way. If you think public transport is expensive, try parking a car somewhere.
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Explosion on London tube
- Thread starter mehrmantrout
- Start date
velociraptor
Junior Member
I agree parking in London is a royal pain in the ass.
Helps if you travel as a group though, whereby parking fees can be shared. Better than spending £15 to get a travel card.
Another young man. I am not surprised. This problem is going to be with us for a long time. I just heard a Muslim woman from Manchester on Maajid Nawaz's LBC radio show say that under an Islamic theocracy if all conditions were met then "stoning" an adulterer would be appropriate.
tonysidaway
Member
Now would be a good time to recall that the London Blitz killed over 40,000 people in about eight months in 1940-1941, half of them in London.
Some individuals who could flee did so, and children had already been evacuated from major cities. However the country kept running despite the chaos and the terrible toll of life and limb.
tonysidaway
Member
In fact, public transport in London is fairly cheap and much cheaper than a car if you're entering the centre. Payment is contactless, £1.50 for any single bus or tram journey of any length with a maximum daily charge or cap of £4.50 per day. Tube, DLR and Overground caps vary according to zone, but a very generous radius of Zone 1-4 yields a daily cap of £9.50, travelling any time using a contactless payment method. If you're driving into the centre, the daily Congestion Charge alone is £11.50 per vehicle before you even find a place to park. Good luck with that.
BuddyTheBestPuppy
Member
eh? I take a 1 hour train ride to downtown Toronto every morning. Taking my car there would be way to stressful.
You can die at any time, stop being afraid and live life.
driving into London on a week day is absolute madness
if you want to drive into the city do it on a weekend and park in a nearby residential borough like Pimlico (permit parking is lifted on weekends) and get a bus or tube a couple of stops into central
fuck parking at an NPC or whatever
if you want to drive into the city do it on a weekend and park in a nearby residential borough like Pimlico (permit parking is lifted on weekends) and get a bus or tube a couple of stops into central
fuck parking at an NPC or whatever
TheShanenanigan
Neo Member
If they don't already do it they should probably add more patrolling bomb dogs.
Wouldn't accomplish anything. Not sure you appreciate how many people there are using the tube in the morning and evening rush hour.
Audioboxer
Member
No secular society will ever truly let a religious theocracy take over. These people are just blowing their fantasies into the wind. But yes, it's worrying that people will poll some pretty barbaric views. If they keep it to themselves then we cannot punish for thought-crime. All we can do there is try and educate and deradicalise. The line that is really crossed is when people actually act out, and either oppress, hurt or kill others.
It seems like many young men aren't just "guilty" of thought-crime, but they're carrying out actions whether it be violent attacks on others or sexual/physical abuse on women/girls. Often in the name of their views/interpretation of their religious text/idea of theocracy. I've spoken about my thoughts on the men behind a lot of these attacks previously, and some of them it's definitely an issue with martyrdom. Low-status males who seem to truly believe going out in a blaze of glory either by explosion or on the end of a police bullet, get them credit from God to cash in, in the afterlife. A "quick fix" instead of trying to secularise these men might somehow be trying to get them to actually re-evaluate their God/religion again, rather than think killing/maiming heretics is what gets them paradise. Preachers/theologians within the faith really need to do that, outsiders or non-believers have little hope convincing them to re-evaluate their beliefs in their book/God. They view outsiders and non-believers as heretics.
The Jihadis Next Door documentary Channel 4 did from 2016 blew up because one of the people in it was one of the London Bridge attackers from this year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y87bbdMY-wI These are the young men we're facing problems from. Many even teenagers, but most at least below middle-aged men.
Secular attempts at deradicalisation seem to be more about just trying to say ISIS is bad, killing is bad and this country you live in does not support violence/hate against others. This seems to "fail" often in prisons too
http://news.sky.com/story/warning-as-hundreds-of-jailed-terrorists-back-on-uk-streets-10639848
And it's not just in jails people are getting referred for deradicalisation
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-uk-deradicalisation-scheme-channel-last-year
The problems are getting worse, as much as many in the general public want to turn away from it all because it's hard to discuss or tackle. I've said this before as well, but when the left creates a vacuum in the discussion, the right swoop in and fill it with their rhetoric. We know how that goes. It's very easy for the right to convince people that the left doesn't care about extremism and terrorism by propagating the myth the left refuses to discuss and engage around the topic. We don't, but, it is true some on the left are shying away out of fear of being labelled as someone from the right merely for discussing numbers like the above, or talking honestly about young men, terrorism, radicalisation, martyrdom, religious theocracy and so on. No, it's not racist to do any of that if you discuss it properly, with evidence/stats and without spreading hate/division/dishonesty yourself.
tonysidaway
Member
The walk from Pimlico to Westminster Bridge is a pleasant morning stroll, should anybody want, for any reason, to avoid the abundant and inexpensive public transport options. From there you have easy access to the centre or the South Bank.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Just so goddamn sad that these cowards always go after innocent people. Just when you think it has been quiet for a good while another attack happens and it could happen to any of us.
I was in London in 2009 and I went with the tube many times. Right now I'm on vacation in Malaga, Spain and even here such a thing could happen. That's the scary thing of these attacks, you just never know when one will occur.
It hasn't happened in Holland yet because we don't really fight against them, like UK does and many other countries but I do wonder for how long that will be. Eventually it'll be our turn too I'm sure.
I was in London in 2009 and I went with the tube many times. Right now I'm on vacation in Malaga, Spain and even here such a thing could happen. That's the scary thing of these attacks, you just never know when one will occur.
It hasn't happened in Holland yet because we don't really fight against them, like UK does and many other countries but I do wonder for how long that will be. Eventually it'll be our turn too I'm sure.
Your chance to die in a car crash is so, so much more likely that this argument is nothing but baseless fearmongering.
That's the thing: we've got to wait until they do something (blow themselves up, go on a stabbing spree, launch a vehicle into a crowd, etc), but by then it's too late. That woman on the radio today would likely be viewed as a "moderate" Muslim for the simple reason she does not usually express or act on her beliefs. But she does have the capacity to influence impressionable minds and that's a worrying thing.
Yeah, these men are finding the justification for their actions in the Quran - there's no dispute there. We and politicians invariably paint them as "cowards" in the aftermath of an attack. I think there's something profoundly dishonest about that. Evil: yes cowardly: no. I don't think they are cowards as they are quite evidently willing to die for their beliefs. How do you negotiate with someone who does not value their life or their freedom?; someone who places serving god above everything else including their family?
I mean, usually you use the prospect of freedom and life as bargaining chips to steer people away from going down a bad path. But how do you do that with a suicide attacker who no longer values such things - especially when you're attempting to discourage them as a "non-believer"? I don't think the will (among preachers) is there in the Islamic community. Why would Islamic preachers aspire to espouse values generated by non-believers? The Quran itself makes the distinction between believers and non-believers with the non-believers being inferior. I even often ask myself do "peaceful" Muslims in the UK tacitly agree with the ideas espoused by ISIL?
In the aftermath of a terror attack, I invariably hear British Muslim (radio) callers phoning in to defend Islam. They usually start by saying "it has nothing do with Islam" followed by "the Quran says 'if you kill an innocent person then it is as if you have killed all of mankind". The thing that troubles me about these callers is that they never say I think killing innocent people is wrong. They always say the Quran says. It's as if their entire world view is shaped by the book and they are incapable of deciding what is right and wrong with their own minds.
The fact that this documentary was produced and aired by a British broadcaster demonstrates how we've become too tolerant of Islamic extremism. These guys were openly preaching their hatred of the West and it was turned into evening entertainment for the masses. You couldn't make it up.
I'm not surprised it is failing. These people have been conditioned to hate non-believers - the kuffar. Why would they be open to the ideas suggested by non-believers?
Yeah you're right there man; I just don't think we are taking this threat as seriously as we should be. And that's why I can't buy into the whole "keep calm and carry on" rhetoric. This is a very serious problem and it is only going to get worse, yet it seems the public and politicians make every effort to downplay it. I was watching the evening London news programme on TV yesterday and they were showing people handing out free pizzas and free drinks and making it all into a sort of smiley, joyous community event. I shook my head with disbelief; you'd be forgiven for thinking that these Londoners almost welcomed the terror attack.
Same with the whole " the kettle's on" stuff on social media yesterday. It might be a "British" thing to do, but it just seems like another example of the denialism that has afflicted the public. Someone managed to assemble an IED and drop it on to a Tube train with the intention of blowing dozens of people to bits and people respond by taking to Twitter telling strangers to come round for a cuppa...it's just ridiculous.
We just can't keep pretending it's not a big deal and it'll eventually simmer down and pass like bygone terror threats. Theresa May said "enough is enough" and "we have to have difficult conversations", but then you look at her responses yesterday and it's more of the same. We just aren't taking it seriously in my opinion. It only takes a few bad apples to reap death and destruction.
What if that bomb hadn't malfunctioned and dozens of people were blown to pieces? Would we still be so trivial about it with all the "kettle's on" bollocks and the jokes about the bucket? We're really all just sitting ducks; the government haven't got a clue and I don't think they really care. It's easy for people such as Theresa May and Sadiq Khan to say words that amount to "keep calm and carry on" since they will live and die in the lap of luxury surrounded by the best security available.
MisterFalcon
Member
Some years earlier the BBC had a program called 'Don't Panic I'm Islamic' aired a few weeks before the 7/7 bombings. The goal was to dispel the stereotypes of islam and terrorism. And, despite the group of terrorists allegedly being so tiny it barely exists they managed to feature a terrorist in the program.
https://vimeo.com/44820941
Here in Amsterdam the whole deradicalisation program has been revealed in the past weeks to be a combination of clever hucksters pocketing millions for useless or nonexistent programs and actual terrorist recruiters using it to get people to Syria. The politicians had no clue how to deal with it after the murder of Theo Van Gogh they threw money at the 'moderates' who said exactly what they wanted to hear: discrimination and alienation were the root cause. A comforting thought when faced with something so outside what we're used to in the West. Blaming ourselves is always the safe thing to do.
I've never come across this programme before; thanks for the link.
Damn, that's crazy. At the end of the day, groups like ISIL operate from the same book as moderate Muslims. They all hold the image of Muhammed in high regard. This is why it's ridiculous when moderate Muslims say that ISIL has nothing, nothing to do with Islam. I recently downloaded a translated version of the Quran and - just from briefly flicking through it - what is clear to me is that it can easily be intepreted to justify violent actions. The onus is really on the individual to quietly drop the parts that are incompatible; we literally have to rely on the intelligence and internal moral compass of the moderate Muslim to not absorb the bad parts.That's why a low-status, not-so-bright, aggressive young male equipped with teachings of the Quran is such a dangerous combo.
Audioboxer
Member
I think for the sake of going for the head of the snake we have to do risk management. Resources are thin. The vast majority of religious people, even if they harbour problematic views, are benign. A good example of something outside Islam is the American Bible belt. They're still largely against homosexuality, abortion and other views around sex-positivity, but they don't really act out anything these days. At worst they attempt to vote in politicians who will try and change/block progress, but ultimately, that is democracy in action. Good ideas need to beat bad ideas at the ballot box. People can rant and rave about how democracy sucks when they don't manage to see who they wanted to win, win, but it's a flawed system that is better than having a dictatorship which some countries genuinely have. Or a religious theocracy. Or both, that's the ultimate human rights abusing nightmare scenario. A dictator ruling under a religious theocracy. Go live in one of those if you're a blogging edgelord who truly thinks democracy sucks and it needs completely overthrown.
So to cut a long story short we do just tend to ignore people answering in polls, or calling in and ranting about how Jesus/God/Muhammad or whoever says homosexuals are abominations and so on. When I say ignore, I don't mean literally. We'll call them out, challenge them and debate them. You as an individual for as little "power" as you think you have can still get involved in the battle of ideas with friends, family, on social media and so on. We're all small cogs in the makeup of the country and the world we live in. It matters for all the "ants of a population" to chip in and debate with each other. The sum of the overall part of the battle of ideas is what is important, use your freedoms to speak to get involved where you can. We ignore them as being an actual imminent threat, their threat is largely thought-crime, and the answer to that is to try and debate/challenge/show evidence. Not everyone who thinks shitty things need to instantly be put on watchlists, arrested or punished. As I said at the start, risk management.
So those "thought-crime people" aside, as you pointed out, the real imminent threat is those who don't fear death. They don't fear deterrents like prison either (usually because they think they'll die before prison). If they make it to prison as they don't get killed or blow up, prisons these days are almost like recruitment camps in parts of the country. You spend time inside with the rest of your extremist brothers. A lot of the nutjobs above while holding shitty views do fear death, or they fear to lose their freedoms in these countries they live in, like the UK, or Europe or America. Life is good here. No matter how much bitching we do about our Governments and our problems, you do have a mild taste of freedom living in the West. You're not going to be jailed for having the wrong religious belief, free speech is far better here than it is in countries that hunt down anyone who says mildly satirical/critical things of the Government, and most of Europe does have a benefits system/social health care. All of these rights, freedoms and benefits coupled with the vast majority of people still fearing death/criminal justice isn't in the same ballpark as the Jihadis that do not fear anything. They embrace dying. They think if they go out the right way they will go out as Kings and be rewarded. If you take a low-status male, so maybe poor, no employment/educational prospects, or maybe just socially poor as in not many friends and then dangle the idea of being a warrior of God in front of them, it's like candy. Heck, some aren't low status-males and come from families of money, or have education, but they still get swayed by the power of thinking themselves leaving this world as a hero, a martyr, and then going into the next with the rewards. What could be better rewarded than killing the heretic/kuffar? These people as indoctrinated as they are, are still humans. Some minds can't quite get over the last hurdle of actually dying, and they'll "chicken out" back to just spreading hate on social media, but sadly many are getting over that last hurdle these days.
As for what you pointed out about how people behave, I didn't quite mean some of the things you said. A lot of what you've pointed out for better or worse is just people trying to cope. Trying to show strength. Trying to show we won't stop living our day to day lives. If you let fear and anxiety really overtake you, you'll be crippled inside. What I more so meant is how some won't have or try to have in-depth conversations about terrorism. They won't do the reading or research on the stats. Or if they do, they feel they can't get involved in talking, can't debate or can't say anything for fear of being labelled right-wing, or racist, or Islamophobic. There are correct times to use such words, but it's not a game of blanket accusations. Terrorism is a real problem in Europe, and we're seeing more frequent attacks or attempted attacks. Populations, including Governments, need to be able to talk honestly about these threats without being instantly shut down and told that's taboo. That's not to be mentioned. That might offend someone. I'm sorry, but young hate-filled men blowing people up, knifing them, car ramming them or running sexual grooming gangs is something for everyone to talk about. We need to talk about it all, but yes, it needs to be done carefully, considerately and correctly. If we simply stop talking however, welcome in your right/far-right overlords who will start winning at the ballot box and will start picking up voters as they keep hammering home "the left doesn't care about terrorism, the left won't listen to your fears, and the left will just call you all names if you even try to speak out". Then add to that a lot of far-right hysteria which is racist and so on, but the right does a far better job than it ever has of picking up disenfranchised lefties these days. A far better job. A lot of them have rebranded themselves from the joke people used to see them as, to alluring to anyone valuing their freedom of speech, free exchange of ideas or even just somewhere to go to talk about something like terrorism.
Hence the rise of the right across Europe, and even in America. The left is not doing a great job of countering/reacting to this in certain areas, and I can already imagine anyone insane enough to read this wall of text getting to the end here and immediately thinking "this guy is just asking for freeze peach and to say horrible things!". No. Not at all. If that is your knee-jerk reaction, then that is to prove my point. Honest, intellectual, careful, considerate and in-depth conservations can happen on things like terrorism, religious extremism, threats, prisons, sex gangs and so on without being taboo conversations because the ethnicity/race/religion of the people that might be involved. Americans are having to discuss white nationalism a lot more, aren't they? Well, Europe has a problem with Islamic terrorism (and martyrdom which is quite unique to Islamic terrorism), some of which is coming from other countries. If not the actual people, then homegrown terrorism is being inspired by the exports of the likes of Saudi Arabia. Wahhabism for one. How often do you hear or see in-depth conversations about Wahhabism in the mainstream press? That's a bigotry of low expectations to carry your thought that anyone talking about any of these things might deserve the side-eye if they speak openly and frankly. Hyper-defensive barriers to these kinds of serious conversations need to be brought down, or the right does just get it's ammunition to say "you can't speak on the left anymore, come over to us". Things are how they are, we need to deal with it. In conversation and in how the Government have to tackle it with intelligence services.
It does have it's purpose, and I can assure all of us we wouldn't like an alternative of everyone truly losing their minds and hitting a state of emergency through panic/fear/anarchy.
As above from some of my ramblings, I think what many are really frustrated with isn't the act of communities standing strong together, but the feeling the problems aren't being spoken about enough at length, in-depth, with stats and with the Government being involved with the people. MI5 have been opening up more after Manchester due to public outrage around "why is this person always known and you don't stop them?!". People truly had no idea the severity of the threat with the numbers on watchlists, being tracked and so on. A Government might see it as a risk to let people know about "unknown threats", but it gets to a point where more transparency with the public is needed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rrorism-manchester-abedi-police-a7758671.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...omber-salman-abedi-moss-side-raids-amber-rudd
http://uk.businessinsider.com/mi5-agent-surveillance-of-islamic-terrorist-suspects-2017-3
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...wolf-low-tech-car-truck-vehicle-a7645221.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...tyle-terror-plots-in-britain-top-officer-says
http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/14/polic...in-the-uk-with-just-minutes-to-spare-6778983/
CyclopsRock
Member
The patronising "You can't divide us, we're stronger together" bollocks after all of these things is a bit nauseating.
Yep my grandmother lived through The Blitz and my dad was working in Canary Wharf during the mid '90s. We've been through far worse against far worse foes and not lost our heads, seasoned Londoners aren't going to be phased by this Four Lions shit.
You mean stronger alone, or so I'm told. Glorious Brexit, it totally makes sense.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I don't know what's wrong with being patronising to terrorists. Unless I've misunderstood.
We are all puzzled on how to keep these people of the Muslim faith from striking out at the public. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, USA, UK, France, Spain, and Germany, among other countries, have all suffered at the hands of the jihadists,
It seems all we can do is be vigilant and try education. I'm afraid this problem will be with us for the next few decades at least.
If the jihadists can convince people to blow themselves up for the cause then it will take a long time to turn the tide. That is some powerful propaganda they have and I feel long term education is the only solution aside from very strict travel restrictions.
It seems all we can do is be vigilant and try education. I'm afraid this problem will be with us for the next few decades at least.
If the jihadists can convince people to blow themselves up for the cause then it will take a long time to turn the tide. That is some powerful propaganda they have and I feel long term education is the only solution aside from very strict travel restrictions.
God forbid a nation stand together in the face of terror.
entremet
Member
I wonder what the job and educational prospects of these guys are? Something has to be wrong that they're lashing out like this. Most of them are young and unmarried as well. Seems like a kind of frustration.
tonysidaway
Member
I don't know, but bear in mind that closed proceedings may be used where an arrest is based on confidential intelligence.
Audioboxer
Member
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ests-rise-68-record-level-during-year-attacks
Probably in prison. I doubt they'll share confidential information on the sites of the planned attacks as not to spook the populations or potentially scare any cells/persons of interest in the area.
Or more from the Metro article above
http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/14/polic...in-the-uk-with-just-minutes-to-spare-6778983/
I have a feeling they are similar to the alienated people who commit gun massacres. The difference is that they are encouraged by other radicals. I wonder, do the majority of these terrorists turn to ISIS because they are frustrated or do ISIS prey on alienated muslim youths and radicalise them?
"Things are how they are, we need to deal with it. In conversation and in how the Government have to tackle it with intelligence services."
No I'm sorry we do not need to accept this is how it is. These people are using disproportionate acts to kill innocent people who by the very virtue of chance being born into a different religion should killed. I'm sorry but it is my view that this government should respond in an equal disproportionate means to protect its civilian population, it's true first purpose.
This is the problem with where we are. Let's light candle tea lights and chant "you won't divide us", until of course, it's your family member they are trying to identify using DNA because they were blew to pieces. I'm sure those chanting this vomit would change their tunes very quickly.
Sadiq Khan, the Muslim mayor of London said (I'm paraphrasing), terrorism is part and parcel of any major city, we should expect it". Why, because it's from his neck of the woods? Would he be so complacent is the IRA resurfaced and started useful proper real explosives to blow up Mosques? I'm sure he would be up in arms. I'd put my mortgage on it he would not have said the above.
I don't have the answer to this, but it's definitely not having fucking Cobra meetings and being politically correct. This is a decisive time and it's time to make hard decisions.
Trust me, there is a change in the populace attitudes. The media isn't reporting it but you clearly see it every where.
No I'm sorry we do not need to accept this is how it is. These people are using disproportionate acts to kill innocent people who by the very virtue of chance being born into a different religion should killed. I'm sorry but it is my view that this government should respond in an equal disproportionate means to protect its civilian population, it's true first purpose.
This is the problem with where we are. Let's light candle tea lights and chant "you won't divide us", until of course, it's your family member they are trying to identify using DNA because they were blew to pieces. I'm sure those chanting this vomit would change their tunes very quickly.
Sadiq Khan, the Muslim mayor of London said (I'm paraphrasing), terrorism is part and parcel of any major city, we should expect it". Why, because it's from his neck of the woods? Would he be so complacent is the IRA resurfaced and started useful proper real explosives to blow up Mosques? I'm sure he would be up in arms. I'd put my mortgage on it he would not have said the above.
I don't have the answer to this, but it's definitely not having fucking Cobra meetings and being politically correct. This is a decisive time and it's time to make hard decisions.
Trust me, there is a change in the populace attitudes. The media isn't reporting it but you clearly see it every where.
tonysidaway
Member
Hey, how about you lay off the Breitbart a little, mmkay?
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...iq-khan-should-have-been-corrected-abc-admits
BossDarkseid
Member
By equally disproportionate means, do you mean like...indiscriminate bombings or something? Or arrests without charge etc? Because it's not like the sec services aren't stretched to the limit and having to work unsociable and absurd hours atm anyway. If there was some golden solution it would have been seized straight away...
You can only talk in hypotheticals about what Khan would or would not condemn anyway, but I daresay the IRA bombing mosques would draw different condemnation? I dunno what people mean by politically correct though, because COBRA meetings etc aren't taken because the government want to avoid offending the Muslim population.
Pushing Facebook, YouTube etc and ISPs to ban the extremist content etc online might be something of a start so combating the radicalization of people who may not have even left this country : /
Wrong. Muslims are disproportionately the victims of Islamist terrorism and you're deluded if you think an Islamist terrorist would get cold feet if he saw someone who could conceivably be Muslim sitting near his target.
Basically you have no idea what you're on about: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33259919
QED.
Ok.
Many commentators have asked, this watch list we have in the UK, why is more not being done to "watch" them?
You know what comes up. Cost.
Cost should not be a problem when protecting innocent people and our way of life.
And your comment "fuck off"... I'm glad that hit a nerve.
Many commentators have asked, this watch list we have in the UK, why is more not being done to "watch" them?
You know what comes up. Cost.
Cost should not be a problem when protecting innocent people and our way of life.
And your comment "fuck off"... I'm glad that hit a nerve.
You are every bit the coward as those applauding these attacks from the safety of their computers. Good job playing into the hands of the terrorists with your Sadiq Khan conspiracy theories and religious war shite.
BossDarkseid
Member
You say cost should not be a problem but...where from where are you going to recruit people? What black box of finance are they gonna be paid from? It's not like anyone ever says "Yeah, it's just not worth it". An effective surveillance operation on a single person target would require anywhere from thirty to sixty people, and if the terror watch list has like 3000 on it (not sure?) then...
We would need 180,000 trained in surveillance, have to go through arms training and all sorts...tldr: none of it would happen overnight. It wouldn't even happen within a year.
It's not a case of anyone judging what's worth it or not. There aren't really any effective solutions that wouldn't involve costs that would literally not be sustainable, not to mention a burnout of staff from working hours required...
Edit: Tbh the way our firearms officers and first res-ponders are trained is to avoid killing the suspect unless absolutely necessary to prevent loss of innocent/civilian life, because they want to be able to glean whatever information they can from them. People are watched based on suspected priority and more work is done than you're every gonna hear about for decades yet so...
Audioboxer
Member
I'll try rewording what I said above to a short-hand statement, people (civilians) have two duties to succeed
a) Put on the face terrorism won't defeat them and do things like the Manchester concert again, hold community events/speakers, commemorate the dead and carry on with life
b) Talk, debate and do research on the threat, who's behind it, why it might be happening and keep up to date
You can't just keep blaming/brow-beating people trying to show solidarity. Yes, I was critical above of the way the left and media handles these things at times, but I tried to be clear to Breakage it wasn't my intention to go after those mourning/trying to move on/showing solidarity. Cmon man, that's just crass. You don't want a community to divide, break and for there to be a state of panic/anarchy/vigilante justice. That's how a democracy crumbles and part of what terrorists are trying to achieve. Ultimate disruption and bloodshed. To prove that these stinking Western democracies and melting pots are the heretic and the only true way for people to live is all by converting to Islamisation/Sharia Law from Government down to civilians. That's not happening, so show the fuckers a secular society with freedom of religion and freedom of speech is how humanity co-exists.
Your Sadiq Khan criticism is twisting his intentions. The right often rolls out that criticism of him, and as above I've stated how the right are recruiting people who are emotionally charged and feeling disenfranchised. Don't let yourself fall for their rhetoric, facts and honesty matter more than finding a punching bag to be angry at.
I also have to say
You might need to clarify that. The police and intelligence services only use deadly force as a last resort when it's clear it's necessary to prevent casualty/further casualty. Even then most of our officers are well trained to try and take down without a fatal wound IF it's safe to do so.
tonysidaway
Member
Fuck off again then. You're the kind of shithole that makes me ashamed to be British, with your call for disproportionate methods.
Curious how the far right make out Sadiq Khan to be a terrorist sympathiser and secret agent for the establishment of a caliphate in Britain but for Islamists he is an apostate who should be hanged because he among other things voted for marriage equality.
He's good for making people show their true colours.
He's good for making people show their true colours.
CyclopsRock
Member
The comments are aimed at us, not the terrorists.
If we're going with sarcasm...
"Thank God I have Theresa May and Sadiq Khan here to tell me that terrorists won't have me turn against my neighbor."
It's the fact they think we need to be told. Though, really, I don't think they do think that, they just have nothing else to say.
Bruh. Come on. Please.
What he actually said.
Stop getting your info from right-wing Twitter.
JonnyDBrit
Member
The 'his neck of the woods' accusation is rather curious considering the man was born in Tooting. Unless the implication is that Khan is being 'soft' because of presumed sympathies from being Muslim, in which case, hoo boy.
Ravensmash
Member
Only his comment in its full context never stated that.
Here's what he actually said:
Part and parcel of living in a great global city is youve got to be prepared for these things, youve got to be vigilant, youve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job. We must never accept terrorists being successful, we must never accept that terrorists can destroy our life or destroy the way we lead our lives.
Edit: Already posted so I'll expand.
Is he wrong?
If so, what do you disagree with in that statement?
I'm fed up of people viewing news as biased soundbites and then running with it and spreading deliberate misinformation to further their side.
Not aimed at you, because it's pervasive (I had to click through several shitty news articles to get the full quote) but it's frustrating.
The guy is arguably the most progressive mayor London has had in recent times - yet he seems to be curiously over analysed by certain segments of society...
No idea why.
Man it's pretty embarrassing how illiterate the far right can be. You literally sound like a copy paste of a Daily Mail comment section.
Every thread about terrorism brings out of the woods at least one person who only reads alt-right sites and twitter feeds and never thinks about double checking the information he or she gets from there and just runs with that information into the wall.
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