Support NeoGAF

[Shito]

in the UK apparently, it is illegal to promote something without letting people know if you are paid to do it.

Yup, works this way in France, and probably in all of Europe.
What's the most laughable in this whole campaign though is the 3500$ or so maximum global payout: this ensures them quite a lot of viral videos with only a pitiful investment. This is for me what's disgusting about it, because they are buying something that is worth way more than what they are paying for. These kinds of practice are quite shitty, sadly no one reads the fine prints anymore...

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

ehh thats the problem. I have heard from friends that max is a shill. Obviously I have no idea if its true or not. Just letting Max know what kind of image he portrays to some people.

I'm leaning towards a no, considering his financial position a few months back and the whole assist me series before capcom got involved

There needs to be a corollary to Poe's Law that goes something like, "A shill and a genuine fanboy are indistinguishable from one another."

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah. And even in the case that there isn't money exchanged, it's usually very clear the kind of biases that arise from being afforded the opportunity to play something early. Mix that with not having a complete picture in the first place because of an incomplete build they're playing and the value of drawing your own conclusions rises considerably. Personally, I put no stock in any judgments made about if something is good or feels good, that's something only I can decide and does not factor into my own purchasing decisions.

That's fairly common even among sincere gamers. You are presented with a preview build, you play it... like some things about it and don't like some other stuff but the stuff you don't like is drowned out by "oh its an alpha we will patch that right up". So when you give honest impressions you come off as a shill for not pointing out the obvious problems... problems that were supposed to be part of the game being alpha/beta.

There needs to be a corollary to Poe's Law that goes something like, "A shill and a genuine fanboy are indistinguishable from one another."

A shill is a fanboy who gets paid.

 

[SousedLouse]

I'm relieved that DNyce is getting medical attention. Hope he recovers soon.

 

[Nyoro SF]

The best part of SFxT pre-patch was seeing who were shills for the game. Twitter was pretty glorious. Be careful with that money, Capcom!

 

[LeMaximilian]

Now Max is simply receives contributions from Microsoft in exchange for positive or neutral coverage.

I can only say this so many times. The financial contributions from Microsoft/Double Helix I've received for promoting Killer Instinct on my channel has reached a cumulative total of...

Spoiler

-$450.00 as I was never paid gas money for driving 4 hours a day driving to offices to record footage

 

[Fersis]

I don't have an issue with shilling, but it should be out in the open, especially after SFxTK.

I do think a couple folks in the FGC do stealth marketing. It doesn't mean I dislike them, but it means I hold their opinions on what is good very suspect.

Dude im brown of course im gonna shill KOF!

 

[enzo_gt]

Yeah astroturfing has been going on in the FGC for a while now and it's pretty obvious.

Like it got to the point where I stopped watching streams outside of majors for a while because I was kind of sick of people trying to sell me stuff "for the good of the community" or whatever. Just seemed so fake.

I really think some people at the end of the day just really, really want others to buy the game they like so there's a community for it. People like others with shared interests, and as you can see all over GAF's Gaming side right now, they will actively go at others if they feel like them not sharing opinions results in a lost sale or something which can lead to the life of something they love being cut short.

We've all heard the "buy Skullgirls because fighting games will all digivolve to a whole other stratosphere if you do" shit for months on streams and around GAF too. At some point it does go from harmless promotion or trying to put others on, to something that feels a bit more uncomfortable and eye-roll worthy.

That's fairly common even among sincere gamers. You are presented with a preview build, you play it... like some things about it and don't like some other stuff but the stuff you don't like is drowned out by "oh its an alpha we will patch that right up". So when you give honest impressions you come off as a shill for not pointing out the obvious problems... problems that were supposed to be part of the game being alpha/beta.

I definitely agree with you. And really, with there being so many sources of information nowadays for those judgments vs. only pretty much gaming mags and promo VHSs in the past, I'd certainly hope more people do put a bit more stock into their gut.

 

[Dahbomb]

I have been accused of shilling for DmC.

I would like to get a hold of the person who started this. Probably that Viewtiful fellow.

 

[Silky]

Dude im brown of course im gonna shill KOF!

Cosigned. I'll shill the fuck out of an SNK title

I have been accused of shilling for DmC.

 

[Retro_]

My relationship with Capcom and other companies has been much different than a lot of this stuff.

When something is produced, I deliver a product to please my clients for what they want. That might be a tutorial, character breakdown, live action sketch, trailer or whatever. And I do that, and it's obvious it's an official product because it has an ESRB logo at the beginning, or will be featured on other websites.

There's usually no altering of opinions or otherwise, I'm making a tutorial, so I focus on making a good tutorial, and that's the end of a contract.

I appreciate your effort to maintain some level of transparency and integrity with your audience, but unfortunately it's all lost on me. There's no safe dosage of that kind of stuff for me. Either you're grass roots or you're making commercials

You don't need me though. You have your audience and you seem to do right by them. My little brother loves your content.

I also think your content deserves praise for not having this palpable aura of contempt for your audience that alot of other streamers/content produces have, which is the worst part about it in this community.

Bb.. But E-Cigs are healthy for you!!!!

Spoiler

Nothing will top that horrible fucking raffle trend. Give me money to win shit I got for free shit.

Just made me think the most visible community leaders had no shame and all the people that retweeted and participated in that shit had no self respect. So glad that fad passed.

 

[sleepykyo]

I can only say this so many times. The financial contributions from Microsoft/Double Helix I've received for promoting Killer Instinct on my channel has reached a cumulative total of...

Spoiler

-$450.00 as I was never paid gas money for driving 4 hours a day driving to offices to record footage

Did this part escape?

Killer Instinct Max was embedded reporter Max

Look up embedded journalism and come back.

 

[Shouta]

Heads up for the internet connection for the EXVSFB tournament at SCR we will be using a dedicated internet line for Gundam stations. I'm aiming for at least 4 stations but we can support up to 12 if people bring setups.

If your local to socal you should really come out to rebel up events at super arcade we normally have 4 stations (maybe 8 once fb comes out) setup for free play on lan. It's a really good way to get some practice in.

FYI, If I end up going to SCR, I can bring a PS3 for FB but a monitor would be kind of rough to bring down.

 

[SousedLouse]

There's nothing you can do to work past that now, Max. Any video you put up or forum post you make explaining the truth will be met with cries of "of course that's what he'd say!" Granted, sleepykyo wasn't saying it, but I've seen other people do it for some reason.

Like it or not, you're part of the Shilluminati now.

 

[Ragingnight]

Nothing will top that horrible fucking raffle trend. Give me money to win shit I got for free shit.

Just made me think the most visible community leaders had no shame and all the people that retweeted and participated in that shit had no self respect. So glad that fad passed.

ehhh I see nothing wrong with the raffle thing. If they can't raffle it, they would ebay/sell it. To me I feel like there is no difference. I mean other large communities raffle shit all the time. DSP is also a great raffler

Spoiler

kappa

 

[Dictator93]

I can only say this so many times. The financial contributions from Microsoft/Double Helix I've received for promoting Killer Instinct on my channel has reached a cumulative total of...

Spoiler

-$450.00 as I was never paid gas money for driving 4 hours a day driving to offices to record footage

I actually laughed at the spoiler text. hahaha

Max, I trust you brother.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

We've all heard the "buy Skullgirls because fighting games will all digivolve to a whole other stratosphere if you do" shit for months on streams and around GAF too.

lmao can this be the new subtitle for the Skullgirls OT

Also I definitely fell for the P4A hype train even after it released. Expectations for P4UUSH seem to be a lot more grounded this time around.

 

[Retro_]

ehhh I see nothing wrong with the raffle thing. If they can't raffle it, they would ebay/sell it. To me I feel like there is no difference. I mean other large communities raffle shit all the time. DSP is also a great raffler

Spoiler

kappa

That doesn't make it right with me.

I mean I'm no authority. I'm in no place to police anything here. It just seems so exploitative to me. I don't want to follow anyone that views me as a disposable money drone like that.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

nobody shills new games like Art(and then unceremoniously drops them by the end of the year)

except Dahbomb and DmC, I suppose

 

[SousedLouse]

We've all heard the "buy Skullgirls because fighting games will all digivolve to a whole other stratosphere if you do" shit for months on streams and around GAF too. At some point it does go from harmless promotion or trying to put others on, to something that feels a bit more uncomfortable and eye-roll worthy.

Solar's the hardest working promoter on GAF, don't knock the hustle.

Spoiler

I'm KIDDING, SolarPowered. Just kidding.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Poor Max. I really hope he gets more fight money. Time to make your own version of Divekick.

 

[enzo_gt]

I have been accused of accepting bison bucks to promote The Empire™ in these threads.

No comment. *vanishes into Dieminion*

- - -

When I made the UMvC3 OT too some people around GAF said it looked like a big ol' marketing OP (this was around the time of the huge Assassin's Creed OT and backlash against flamboyant OTs). At the time I really just thought I was doing something fun, going crazy with the sparkles and shit because people were complaining about UMvC3's new HUD and stuff, but in retrospect I can see some of the wording in the "What's New" section making it sound like that when I was just excited about the game and trying to take a light hearted/cheesy comedy approach to writing that bit.

 

[Ragingnight]

That doesn't make it right with me.

I mean I'm no authority. I'm in no place to police anything here. It just seems so exploitative to me. I don't want to follow anyone that views me as a disposable money drone like that.

soo whats the difference if they put it on ebay? I mean raffling is a gamble and everybody should know that. People love to gamble so yeah.

 

[Dahbomb]

Man if I am a shill then I must be the worst shill ever since I wrote essays on how some of the mechanics in DmC were bad for a DMC game... and this was pre-release when hype of the game needs to be at its maximum.

Also been accused of shilling for DMC4 because I made the OT for that game and I definitely was hyping it up through the roof. But that was all genuine hype... you don't need to pay me to hype up a DMC game.

 

[Riposte]

Man if I am a shill then I must be the worst shill ever since I wrote essays on how some of the mechanics in DmC were bad for a DMC game... and this was pre-release when hype of the game needs to be at its maximum.

Let's just say we know who on GAF got employee of the month and it wasn't you.

 

[Silky]

I have absolutely no hope P4UUSH after P4A. Even with Junpei making it in.

 

[SousedLouse]

Man if I am a shill then I must be the worst shill ever since I wrote essays on how some of the mechanics in DmC were bad for a DMC game... and this was pre-release when hype of the game needs to be at its maximum.

You were the promoter the game deserved. "C'mon, guys, the game isn't complete ass, let's not use hyperbole in place of facts" is the optimal way to hype up DmC.

 

[Retro_]

soo whats the difference if they put it on ebay? I mean raffling is a gamble and everybody should know that. People love to gamble so yeah.

Ebay is a transaction between two individuals. Same shit as selling it to gamestop to me.

Raffles are just a way to cast a wide net to make as much money as possible. There's the potential to make waaaaaaaay more than the value of the item, which probably isn't hard at all when your viewer size is large enough

sure some guy may get a stick for 5 dollars and that's great, but there's probably alot of people that paid you 25 dollars for nothing and you just got 300+ dollars for a 150 dollar stick you got for free.

 

[Shouta]

Ebay is a transaction between two individuals. Same shit as selling it to gamestop to me.

Raffles are just a way to cast a wide net to make as much money as possible. There's the potential to make waaaaaaaay more than the value of the item, which probably isn't hard at all when your viewer size is large enough

sure some guy may get a stick for 5 dollars and that's great, but there's probably alot of people that paid you 25 dollars for nothing.

So you're mad someone's making money? Raffles are like a serious win/win for both the auctioneer and the participants. Nothing really scummy about it.

 

[enzo_gt]

Dude im brown of course im gonna shill KOF!

All this life I thought I was brown..

There's nothing you can do to work past that now, Max. Any video you put up or forum post you make explaining the truth will be met with cries of "of course that's what he'd say!" Granted, sleepykyo wasn't saying it, but I've seen other people do it for some reason.

Like it or not, you're part of the Shilluminati now.

Yeah, as soon as you dip into that realm you have to expect this stuff. It's a natural response to question the legitimacy, even if it is indeed legitimate. It doesn't matter really if you have a dedicated fan base that is receptive to your content anyways (because they are entitled to their own perspective), but you should expect this side of things to never go away. Especially because hyperbole is so much fun on the internet.

nobody shills new games like Art(and then unceremoniously drops them by the end of the year)

except Dahbomb and DmC, I suppose

Shots fired.

Spoiler

Arturo should already know he's a prime suspect in all of this, it's too prevalent of a pattern even if it may come from a genuine place, it makes people suspicious.

Solar's the hardest working promoter on GAF, don't knock the hustle.

Spoiler

I'm KIDDING, SolarPowered. Just kidding.

SolarPowered has always been fairly level headed and I respect that. Not really worthwhile calling anyone else out, but there are names that got crossed off of the "take seriously" list for some particularly aggressive defenses all those months ago.

Let's just say we know who on GAF got employee of the month and it wasn't you.

Lol, I've barely read any threads on DmC and even I know who you're talking about.

 

[Dahbomb]

Blow em up Enzo! Do it!

Expose the shills!

 

[Azure J]

SolarPowered has always been fairly level headed and I respect that. Not really worthwhile calling anyone else out, but there are names that got crossed off of the "take seriously" list for some particularly aggressive defenses all those months ago.

Solar pretty much found himself in the same kinda situation you described regarding yourself and the situation around the Marvel OT when it first went up. Very enthusiastic about the game and what it was doing right even with Lab Zero going through its growing pains and issues

This also reminds me that my new laptop can't get here sooner. I need to play it more and get a hang of how it all feels for Eliza soonish.

 

[The Light]

Did DOA5 ever get that "play this its great" promotion when it was first released? I can't remember if it did.

 

[theprodigy]

Let's just say we know who on GAF got employee of the month and it wasn't you.

wait, who are we talking about here

 

[Infinite]

Kinda weird that you guys are talking about people being suspected shills of a game basically for being fans of it on social media.

 

[Retro_]

So you're mad someone's making money? Raffles are like a serious win/win for both the auctioneer and the participants. Nothing really scummy about it.

I don't see how it's a win for the people that don't win the raffles but ok.

and I'm not mad someone's making money. It's more of say one thing act another. Almost everyone preaches about doing things for the good of the community etc, but then you have those same people trying all these manipulative get rich quick schemes to profit off of the viewers they claim to be doing these things for.

but like I said, I have no authority and this is just my opinion. If people are happy throwing money at their favorite players for nothing more power to them. Everybody's gotta eat at the end of the day.

I just don't want any stake in that kind of environment myself. Luckily for me there's enough players I like that don't do this sort of thing., and if all else fails I can just pull my head back into the games and making my way out to events.

 

[vocab]

I have absolutely no hope P4UUSH after P4A. Even with Junpei making it in.

Ya, the games pretty ridiculous.

 

[Ragingnight]

I don't see how it's a win for the people that don't win the raffles but ok.

and I'm not mad someone's making money. It's more of say one thing act another. Almost everyone preaches about doing things for the good of the community etc, but then you have those same people trying all these manipulative get rich quick schemes to profit off of the viewers they claim to be doing these things for.

but like I said, I have no authority and this is just my opinion. If people are happy throwing money at their favorite players for nothing more power to them. Everybody's gotta eat at the end of the day.

I just don't want any stake in that kind of environment myself. Luckily for me there's enough players I like that don't do this sort of thing., and if all else fails I can just pull my head back into the games and making my way out to events.

so what if its a free raffle when you are a subscriber. Like if you subscribe are you automatically entered in a raffle every other week or whatever.

 

[Slamtastic]

Kinda weird that you guys are talking about people being suspected shills of a game basically for being fans of it on social media.

You're only allowed to have positive thoughts for ______ and ___, if you like any other game you're on the company payroll.

If people said that out right, I'd probably be more okay with with that than beating around the bush with baseless statements "When Max was hyping ______ _, he was an enthusiastic fan, but ______ _____ paid him to promote ______ ________"

 

[Jazz-ism]

hope dwayne gets the help he needs. just goes to show you never know what someone is going through. got damn dwayne pull yourself together man!

 

[SousedLouse]

Kinda weird that you guys are talking about people being suspected shills of a game basically for being fans of it on social media.

People are really judgemental about enthusiasm. Anyone who's getting a little too excited about something might just be on the take, abusing privileges that the common man can never utilize, taking advantage of us, answering to a higher power. You gotta watch 'em real close.

All that shit goes out the window when the advertising is transparent, though. Microsoft's paying $3 for every thousand views on Twitch? Fuck yeah, make it rain.

 

[Retro_]

so what if its a free raffle when you are a subscriber. Like if you subscribe are you automatically entered in a raffle every other week or whatever.

I don't really want to describe my level of comfort towards every hypothetical.

Like I don't really mind if you think I'm full of shit. I'm gonna keep doing me regardless.

Way I see it is it's like Kickstarter. Some people like giving money for something abstract in hopes of getting something in return. Others are uncomfortable with the idea of someone begging them for money. Especially when that money can be obtained through other means.

 

[Kadey]

Anybody want to play Ultra SFIV with me?

 

[nycfurby]

Spoiler

Arturo should already know he's a prime suspect in all of this, it's too prevalent of a pattern even if it may come from a genuine place, it makes people suspicious.

everything I've done on my channel is something I've done for free out of my own pocket. it's not paid shill at all. if people want to say I dropped sfxt, well, i won 2 big events for the game in 2013, so there goes that. That was well after the Cross Assault money left. Injustice? Yes, I got paid to test it, but after that I haven't been paid for anything. Pushed out content for my local scene, did match analysis, character tutorials, always pushed the game etc. What are people going to say I'm a paid shill for anime too next? lol I barely get paid for any of this.

 

[theprodigy]

You're only allowed to have positive thoughts for ______ and ___, if you like any other game you're on the company payroll.

two blanks?
only TLoU allowed, what is this madness /s

 

[Silky]

why haven't I seen this

 

[Deckard Cain]

I can only say this so many times. The financial contributions from Microsoft/Double Helix I've received for promoting Killer Instinct on my channel has reached a cumulative total of...

Spoiler

-$450.00 as I was never paid gas money for driving 4 hours a day driving to offices to record footage

YoVideoGames is producing better content than Miles923. Your obsession with Killer Instinct real or fake has made Miles boring and unwatchable.

 

[The Light]

Have to agree with infinite though. What is wrong with getting people to try a game that you're personally excited for? I see the promotion more as try something new and you might like it sort of thing.

 

[Jazz-ism]

YoVideoGames is producing better content than Miles923. Your obsession with Killer Instinct real or fake has made Miles boring and unwatchable.

yooo got damn the villain returns with a vengeance!

 

[Silky]

Don't do it. Don't feed 'em.