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Final Fantasy 7 Remake Spoilers Thread!

Faithless83

Banned
Just finished the game. This ending actually made me happy. The sky is the limit now, they can do whatever they want with the story.
I get the reactions, but I'm glad they had the balls to do it. So far they did an amazing job.
Listen to yourselves praising the shit out of it, except for the ending.
While the rug was being pulled I was like "wait, is this really happening? Are we MK9 now? YEAAAAHHH!!!"
 

Ten_Fold

Member
Took me 32 hours to finish FF7R did a few side quest, man I enjoyed the game,the combat was really good, I dont mind the game being linear, I love how the added a ton of small details to midgar and really giving more story to biggs, jessie, and wedge. Now the cons, man the textures can look like a ps1 game, too many slow walking parts imo. Now last and the very last thing is the story. I enjoyed it up until the last chapter, the game is like a sequel/reboot FF7-2 will mostly be a different game story wise. I'm somebody who wants the main story parts unchanged, the time traveling, crap is.....crap. Not to hype for FF7-2, will have to wait till its already out. Bottom line, I like the game but I don't care to play the sequels.
 

MagnesG

Banned
I've only enjoyed moments that had happened in the originals, all of those lengthy Midgar promises are just boring fetch quests and walking simulator most of the time. Fucking paddings.

Then now they change into a new direction altogether for the next part..
I guess they want to ditch most of the old fans to embrace new ones, those who love KH3 timeline bullshit.
 

PanzerAzel

Member
I don't get it... if they wanted so bad to make something different... why not make a new Final Fantasy?

This was supposed to be FF7, if you don't want to make FF7, just dont...
I think it simply boils down to that they didn’t want to be so creatively constrained, but also didn’t want to lose the commercial potential from the nostalgic who wanted it to remain closer to the source material. Which is strange, as the breadth of the world holds immense potential for a lot of creative liberty, even within the constraints the original narrative would impose.
 
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yewles1

Member
I'm still expecting the endgame to be the heroes correcting the timeline after realizing too many moments not feeling right in the end, contemplating that you can still have free will, but not at the expense of total metaversal domihation by Jenova/Sephiroth.
 
Eh. I´m weirdly fine with how it all played out in the end.

How long is it realistically going to take until we reach the end of this remake franchise? 10 years? Even longer? I can´t see myself getting invested in the long term if future instalments are just going to be a drip-feed of nostalgia with a few surprises sprinkled in, and now that the initial shock of seeing the universe of FF7 revived with modern presentation and a new combat system is over, I wonder how long they could get away with making games that essentially boil down to "hey, remember this part?" and still keep things interesting.

The fact that there´s a big question mark at the end of it gives me something to look forward to, even if there´s the possibility that Nomura ends up huffing a bit too many of his own farts but lets all just hope it doesn´t come to that.

I can also respect that they actually had the fucking balls to do it. Wouldn´t have expected that in today´s industry.
 

Ten_Fold

Member
Really sitting back and thinking about it, I don't think the ending is bad, just not what people expect, the next game is gonna feel like rewriting history like on some kingdom hearts or even bravely second type of thing. I guess that's why they called the game Final Fantasy 7 REMAKE, instead of just final fantasy 7.
 

martino

Member
Just finished the game. This ending actually made me happy. The sky is the limit now, they can do whatever they want with the story.
I get the reactions, but I'm glad they had the balls to do it. So far they did an amazing job.
Listen to yourselves praising the shit out of it, except for the ending.
While the rug was being pulled I was like "wait, is this really happening? Are we MK9 now? YEAAAAHHH!!!"

could have been better. the changes were crescendo but last hour is a wall in your face. I agrre too, it stays a good choice because they will be able to build what they want with a better balance between content and text turn into hours of cinematics.
 
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LordKasual

Banned
It makes perfect sense and isn't incompatible.

When I said "90% old Square and 10% new Square", what I mean to say is what you allude to: that it followed a basic structure, a catalyst that had been laid down that they could follow. Sure the new content was created by them, but it was contingent upon a basic narrative flow and characterization previously established they could refer back to at any given moment for reference when needed. There absolutely was a rubric that held them within constraint that we saw the result of in the last 10% when they wholeheartedly decided to abandon it to their own creative predilections, predilections that appear are going to run rampant in Episode 2.

I made a post in the OT thread that I don't think the new content is necessarily all that either, and that it didn't improve anything. Much of it is boring, tedious chore work that adds little to what made the original amazing, only extended its playtime from four hours to forty which helped destroy the pacing. The new content was only tolerable precisely because it existed within a framework that, while minimal from moment to moment, was in its over-arching foundation strong enough to bear the burden of the lesser. And as that framework looks to be going out the window for a story that's looking at this point to very loosely adhere to tenets of the original instead of following them strictly, my hopes are non-existent. Well, they became non-existent the moment the credits rolled. Frankly, I don't believe the new content is nearly strong enough from a narrative and gameplay perspective to justify itself outside of a context of past competence into one of future incompetence.

Meh, i disagree. The added sections/interactions/dialogue in this game hit all the same points for me as they did in the original, and then some.

The structure they followed in FF7R was only ever a loose one....again, they stretched 8 hours of charming but relatively simple content into 40+ hours, with SIGNIFICANTLY more dialogue and detail than the original game had. -- infinite space to mess up before the ending. Not to say it's "better", but in the context of this conversation when we're discussing the competence of the writing team.....it does what it set out to do -- it recaptures the FEELING of the original. We're all afraid of the same thing. The game went FULL anime at the end (complete with teleporting cloud) but the majority of the game didn't include these tropes, despite spending the ENTIRETY of the game alluding and building up to them.


What i'm saying is that it's pretty silly to suggest that the only reason you liked the game before the ending is because it was "following the original" when it was only ever loosely following the original in the first place, and all of the best scenes (imo) were original.


The bar scene after the explosion? 100% different turn of events. The feeling of watching Barrett reject cloud, and the dialogue of everyone else hanging without you was brilliant. The whole scenario was completely original up until the ghosts come and force you to go on the Sector 5 bombing mission.

The Cloud+Tifa flashback? In a completely different section, and followed up with an original scene that was pretty charming.

The rooftop hopping with Aerith was pretty cool, but had nothing on the trip to Sector 7 topside with Jesse, Biggs, and Wedge, and that whole mission + the parachute + aftermath was CLASSIC FF story-through-gameplay goodness.

Shinra HQ? Missing the air duct stuff and a few floors (i think) but what we got instead was awesome, and honestly the whole sequence breaking in and then the gimmicks with Tifa was, again, classic true-to-form FF7-FF9 goodness that we haven't seen in Final Fantasy since Squaresoft.


So what i'm saying is, yes the ending was a fucking mess, but it can't be indicative of the entire experience because the rest of it was nothing like that.

Unless Square's actual message with the ending was "Yeah, we know this is the kind of writing you like, but THIS is the kind of writing we WANT to do", in which case yeah i think we should all be terrified of how bad the coming chapters will be. But I doubt that's the case.
 
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wzy

Member
The Sector 7 trip was awful and I think emblematic of what I hate about the Remake (and I don't hate everything about it) as a whole. The forced feels-gaming shit and melodrama just does not play with real VA and detailed animation. Not that they even tried, of course. Biggs just outright tells you Jesse's whole backstory--completely unprompted and right in the middle of a sequence that had zero impact or relevance to the story as a whole--and the game may as well have just printed "Press X to feel bad" on the screen for all effort that was devoted for telling this story. The only purpose of going topside in the first place is so that they can tell you: "Oh no! Jesse's dad is in a coma because of Mako. And she was going to be an actress but now she isn't. Isn't this sad? Don't you just hate Shinra? Come on, feel something!" and of course you don't, because you don't know any of these lame extras and they didn't earn one minute of the whole scene. This is a videogame so the way to get you to come to care about the characters (if you don't already have prior nostalgia) is to make the characters an element of gameplay somehow. Maybe if they were in some kind of real danger during the escort mission or they helped you in any meaningful way to defeat the boss, but honestly even then I'm still gonna need a flashback vignette because not even William H. M. F.ing Shakespeare is going to be able to make give a shit about Jesse's Dad's off-camera problems in 3 lines of dialogue.
 
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Vawn

Banned
The Sector 7 trip was awful and I think emblematic of what I hate about the Remake (and I don't hate everything about it) as a whole. The forced feels-gaming shit and melodrama just does not play with real VA and detailed animation. Not that they even tried, of course. Biggs just outright tells you Jesse's whole backstory--completely unprompted and right in the middle of a sequence that had zero impact or relevance to the story as a whole--and the game may as well have just printed "Press X to feel bad" on the screen for all effort that was devoted for telling this story. The only purpose of going topside in the first place is so that they can tell you: "Oh no! Jesse's dad is in a coma because of Mako. And she was going to be an actress but now she isn't. Isn't this sad? Don't you just hate Shinra? Come on, feel something!" and of course you don't, because you don't know any of these lame extras and they didn't earn one minute of the whole scene. This is a videogame so the way to get you to come to care about the characters (if you don't already have prior nostalgia) is to make the characters an element of gameplay somehow. Maybe if they were in some kind of real danger during the escort mission or they helped you in any meaningful way to defeat the boss, but honestly even then I'm still gonna need a flashback vignette because not even William H. M. F.ing Shakespeare is going to be able to make give a shit about Jesse's Dad's off-camera problems in 3 lines of dialogue.

Aren't you a cranky guy without and an Enter key.

I loved this game. I thought they did a fantastic job. I just hope we still get the full Remake we wanted.
 
Man this is my first time playing Final Fantasy 7 any version, but I have to say I love it so far. Loved this tournament section and now crossdressing part (couldn't stop smiling playing this part). I think SE nailed Cloud's character, I thought I won't like him, but so far he with Aeris are my favourite characters here. And what struck me, I always though (from watching trailers and by promo arts) that Aerith would have Tifa's character and vice versa, heh.
 

wzy

Member
I post on a 49" ultrawide and another thing I could not care less about in addition to FFVII's expanded roster of nobodies is where the line breaks of my posts appear for the poverty stricken.
 
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Vawn

Banned
Man this is my first time playing Final Fantasy 7 any version, but I have to say I love it so far. Loved this tournament section and now crossdressing part (couldn't stop smiling playing this part). I think SE nailed Cloud's character, I thought I won't like him, but so far he with Aeris are my favourite characters here. And what struck me, I always though (from watching trailers and by promo arts) that Aerith would have Tifa's character and vice versa, heh.

I would highly advise playing the original, at least after you beat part one. The game is clearly written and designed with the belief the player has played the original. Going forward this will likely be even more important.

Plus, it's still one of the best games ever made. It is now clear that this "Remake" is not meant to be a replacement, but a supplement/pseudo-sequel to the original.
 
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Aerith (and maybe Sephiroth) uses lifestream to travel back in time. The whispers are a byproduct to ensure no one messes with the history.
 
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Lethal01

Member
Not only does the original exist, but this remake isn't replacing it as it seems to be a requirement to play before engaging in FF7R.

Really? Is this game really that confusing to a newcomer.

I doubt it, Just about everything is spelled out with no subtlety. Like, I'm hearing people claiming newcomers will be confused by sephiroth when from the first hour he is introduced as someone who Cloud killed and is supposed to be dead. The whispers are spelled out super clearly for everyone, not just people who haven't played.

They may have questions but there is a difference between not knowing the future and being confused. And I don't see how you could get confused unless you don't pay attention.

The only really jarring thing was that catty boi showing up out of nowhere. and ofcourse big Z at the end.
Honestly, though the latter could have been easily remedied by making it clearer this was a flash back and that he was supposed to die but ended up living.
 
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yewles1

Member
Really? Is this game really that confusing to a newcomer.

I doubt it, Just about everything is spelled out with no subtlety. Like, I'm hearing people claiming newcomers will be confused by sephiroth when from the first hour he is introduced as someone who Cloud killed and is supposed to be dead. The whispers are spelled out super clearly for everyone, not just people who haven't played.

They may have questions but there is a difference between not knowing the future and being confused. And I don't see how you could get confused unless you don't pay attention.

The only really jarring thing was that catty boi showing up out of nowhere. and ofcourse big Z at the end.
Honestly, though the latter could have been easily remedied by making it clearer this was a flash back and that he was supposed to die but ended up living.
I didn't mean to say the plot was confusing, I meant to say that the original is required in order fully realize the importance of events that may no longer happen due to the conflict with the whispers.
 

Vawn

Banned
Aerith (and maybe Sephiroth) uses lifestream to travel back in time. The whispers are a byproduct to ensure no one messes with the history.

Maybe, but that's not clear yet. Much more likely Sephiroth did and Aerith just realizes something is amiss because of her ties to the planet.

But Sephiroth may not have traveled through time, but came across seeing the future through some other means. Or a different timeline, as there are clearly severeal in play judging by the Zack scenes.

Right now, nobody knows what exactly is going on or why/how the whisperers appeared and why they can intervene with everyone except Sephiroth.
 

Vawn

Banned
I didn't mean to say the plot was confusing, I meant to say that the original is required in order fully realize the importance of events that may no longer happen due to the conflict with the whispers.

True. But the plot of the original by itself IS pretty confusing with all the different threads between Sephiroth, Jenova and the Ancients. People still don't agree to what everything is, as the game left some stuff up to interpretation.

Adding multiple timelines and history changing on top of this will likely be confusing. If you don't know the original, you wouldn't understand what is changing and why the whisperers are foing what they're doing (basically trying to make things happen like they happened in FF7 PS1).
 

Lethal01

Member
True. But the plot of the original by itself IS pretty confusing with all the different threads between Sephiroth, Jenova and the Ancients. People still don't agree to what everything is, as the game left some stuff up to interpretation.

Adding multiple timelines and history changing on top of this will likely be confusing. If you don't know the original, you wouldn't understand what is changing and why the whisperers are foing what they're doing (basically trying to make things happen like they happened in FF7 PS1).

Sure you won't understand why the whispers are doing what they are doing.... But this is the point for most of the games. You don't know what they are.
 

martino

Member
Aerith (and maybe Sephiroth) uses lifestream to travel back in time. The whispers are a byproduct to ensure no one messes with the history.

From what i understood there is multiple dimension, and the whispers are tool of the planet to make them merge toward the event of the one we know with original ff7.
From where they are time is not linear and the see all of them (think fringe and the observers)
 
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Vawn

Banned
Sure you won't understand why the whispers are doing what they are doing.... But this is the point for most of the games. You don't know what they are.

But more going forward. Based off the ending everything is about to change from the original timeline. I feel the story is being presented with the expectation the player knows what that original timeline is.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Remember gaf. Wherever Nomura takes us, the fact is:


EK4eoH1.png
 

PanzerAzel

Member
So what i'm saying is, yes the ending was a fucking mess, but it can't be indicative of the entire experience because the rest of it was nothing like that.

Sorry man, I really think this is nothing but wishful thinking and misplaced optimism, and I've been seeing this sentiment on this board and others. That yeah, the ending sucked, but let's attempt to brush it aside in recognition of what they did right to marginalize what they did wrong. But what they did wrong here was in no way marginal, and it tended towards huge ramifications in portending the future direction of this remake. It wasn't just a misstep that held minor consequence to the story or characterization or lore, and if that were the case I'd be more prone to agree with you. This wasn't an outlier, it was a total and complete upheaval of everything that has defined this game up to this point, appealing to the worst creative instincts of those in charge who've had nothing but an abysmal track record from the past years in creating narratives that are nothing but laughable clusterfucks of amateurish garbage.

What really bothers me here is why this was all so necessary? None of this shit in the final few hours was needed. NONE of it. As I mentioned prior, it was so tonally inconsistent with the material preceding it (and that coming after it) that I don't really see how they're to proceed otherwise without adhering to it despite a narrative that they have to pull from. And if they don't adhere to it henceforth as you seem to be suggesting, why did they even introduce it?

Speculation at this juncture, but I think you're hoping against hope when you take into account the recent history of those in charge of this. You can look at what they did with the original material to give you that hope, I'll look at what they've done in the modern age alongside what we see in this remake that ends on a note of total and complete tonal and narrative divergence from the source that is concordant with it. I believe the latter is much more indicative to future outcome.
 
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Dacon

Banned
He just sliced them with his sword.
I don't even understand what the hell is going on in that scene. Isn't the whole point of the big whisper boss fight that they defeated the Whispers/Fate and that made them a non-issue? Yet here they are in the Sephiroth boss fight actively impeding Avalanche's charge against him, which makes no goddamn sense bc Sephiroth appears to be attempting to change the future, which is what the Whispers are supposed to fucking prevent.

Not to mention when Cloud catches up to Sephiroth and brings his sword down on him Sephiroth explodes into a giant mass of Whispers that transports him to the edge of creation????

It literally makes no sense whatsoever.
 

base

Banned
Sephiroth knows the future, he knows he will lose. He just wants to change it. My question is - how does he know it? That's interesting.
 

Vawn

Banned
Sephiroth knows the future, he knows he will lose. He just wants to change it. My question is - how does he know it? That's interesting.

That and WHY can the whisperers do whatever they want except to Sephiroth? I'm sure we will find out.
 

LordKasual

Banned
That and WHY can the whisperers do whatever they want except to Sephiroth? I'm sure we will find out.

The Whispers were said to be part of the Planet. So they're essentially like the WEAPONs -- they don't care who's doing what, they're just there to do their job and fuck up anyone who's stopping them.

Jenova ("Sephiroth") is not from the planet.
 
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Dacon

Banned
That and WHY can the whisperers do whatever they want except to Sephiroth? I'm sure we will find out.

The most optimistic outcome of all this is that the original story continues as once told, then all of this whisper/future nonsense comes to play in the final/post final battle. '

In the wake of all this nonsense I can totally see Genesis and his so called goddess making their way into this mess.
 

Dacon

Banned
The Whispers were said to be part of the Planet. So they're essentially like the WEAPONs -- they don't care who's doing what, they're just there to do their job and fuck up anyone who's stopping them.

Jenova ("Sephiroth") is not from the planet.

That doesn't make any fucking sense, Sephiroth is human too, when he dies he returns to the planet. If the Whispers job is to stop this shit, Sephiroth should be number one on their shitlist, the WEAPONs attempted to take out Sephiroth too, but the Whispers don't, and actually seem to be helping him.
 

Vawn

Banned
That doesn't make any fucking sense, Sephiroth is human too, when he dies he returns to the planet. If the Whispers job is to stop this shit, Sephiroth should be number one on their shitlist, the WEAPONs attempted to take out Sephiroth too, but the Whispers don't, and actually seem to be helping him.

Is he? I mean obviously Sephiroth was human, but that guy was dead before FFVII even began. Sephiroth as we know is much more complicated.

They don't help him as I see it. They are trying to clean up his messes (such as killing Barrett). Just, for some reason, they don't seem able to stop him directly like they do with everyone else.
 
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Dacon

Banned
Is he? I mean obviously Sephiroth was human, but that guy was dead before FFVII even began. Sephiroth as we know is much more complicated.

Dude was in the lifestream. It was only through the power of jenova that he was able to assert his will in the world.
 
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Dacon

Banned
Hell I don't think Sephiroth even really "died" after Nibelheim, he was grievously wounded, chose to jump in the Mako under the reactor, then fell into the lifestream with Jenova and was found to have been physically recuperating in Northern Crater.
 
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LordKasual

Banned
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I just saw something on Reddit that blew my mind.

What our characters interprets as a failed future is in fact exactly what happens at the end of the original game.

If you cut out the Compilation games, then the ending of FF7 is deliberately vague about the outcome of Holy/Lifestream saving the planet from Meteor.

The ending is simply a scene from 400 years in the future, where Red is alive and Midgar is covered in greenery, which signifies that the planet was saved.

But it suggests nothing about humanity.

In fact, Bugenhagen flat-out says that Holy cleanses "all threats from the planet", which "may include humanity", and that it's at the discretion of the planet itself.


In the final cutscenes, we see visions of Zack, Aerith's summoning, Aerith's death, Cloud attacking Sephiroth, and Red XIII in the ending....but nothing beyond that. Meaning that it's all 100% in the context of the original FF7 and NOT the extended compilation.


It's possible that the future they're seeing is one in which the planet cleanses itself of humanity, which would explain why Aerith and Red XIII are the only ones who understand these visions the most, as Aerith was an Ancient / part of the lifestream, and Red XIII would have been the only party member to actually survive Holy.


This also may give logic to Sephiroth having an appeal to Cloud to help him -- the future where he loses is also one where humanity loses.
 
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YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I just saw something on Reddit that blew my mind.



If you cut out the Compilation games, then the ending of FF7 is deliberately vague about the outcome of Holy/Lifestream saving the planet from Meteor.

The ending is simply a scene from 400 years in the future, where Red is alive and Midgar is covered in greenery, which signifies that the planet was saved.

But it suggests nothing about humanity.

In fact, Bugenhagen flat-out says that Holy cleanses "all threats from the planet", which "may include humanity", and that it's at the discretion of the planet itself.


In the final cutscenes, we see visions of Zack, Aerith's summoning, Aerith's death, Cloud attacking Sephiroth, and Red XIII in the ending....but nothing beyond that. Meaning that it's all 100% in the context of the original FF7 and NOT the extended compilation.


It's possible that the future they're seeing is one in which the planet cleanses itself of humanity, which would explain why Aerith and Red XIII are the only ones who understand these visions the most, as Aerith was an Ancient / part of the lifestream, and Red XIII would have been the only party member to actually survive Holy.


This also may give logic to Sephiroth having an appeal to Cloud to help him -- the future where he loses is also one where humanity loses.

Can i have a link to that thread/trip?
 

LordKasual

Banned
Can i have a link to that thread/trip?



The thread doesn't actually go down this road so this is pretty much the only post to bring this up.

everyone interprets that line as meta.....but if you take it literally only in the context of FF7, the version of the "future of FF7" that the characters get might not be so amazing as the ones the player is getting.
 
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Dacon

Banned
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I just saw something on Reddit that blew my mind.



If you cut out the Compilation games, then the ending of FF7 is deliberately vague about the outcome of Holy/Lifestream saving the planet from Meteor.

The ending is simply a scene from 400 years in the future, where Red is alive and Midgar is covered in greenery, which signifies that the planet was saved.

But it suggests nothing about humanity.

In fact, Bugenhagen flat-out says that Holy cleanses "all threats from the planet", which "may include humanity", and that it's at the discretion of the planet itself.


In the final cutscenes, we see visions of Zack, Aerith's summoning, Aerith's death, Cloud attacking Sephiroth, and Red XIII in the ending....but nothing beyond that. Meaning that it's all 100% in the context of the original FF7 and NOT the extended compilation.


It's possible that the future they're seeing is one in which the planet cleanses itself of humanity, which would explain why Aerith and Red XIII are the only ones who understand these visions the most, as Aerith was an Ancient / part of the lifestream, and Red XIII would have been the only party member to actually survive Holy.


This also may give logic to Sephiroth having an appeal to Cloud to help him -- the future where he loses is also one where humanity loses.

Or you know, a future where Midgar is abandoned and reclaimed by nature because people moved on. Which is, the most logical, sensible conclusion. Without Mako to support the infastructure the whole thing would come crashing down eventually, seeing as how the whole city was built around it, makes sense to abandon it within the next 20 years and move on to somewhere else, instead of attempting to retrofit the entire city for new energy sources.

Holy in fact, does not cleanse humanity at all, as evidenced by Advent Children and the compilation. This game contains plenty of references to AC as well, notably featuring one track in particular heavily.
 
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Vawn

Banned
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I just saw something on Reddit that blew my mind.



If you cut out the Compilation games, then the ending of FF7 is deliberately vague about the outcome of Holy/Lifestream saving the planet from Meteor.

The ending is simply a scene from 400 years in the future, where Red is alive and Midgar is covered in greenery, which signifies that the planet was saved.

But it suggests nothing about humanity.

In fact, Bugenhagen flat-out says that Holy cleanses "all threats from the planet", which "may include humanity", and that it's at the discretion of the planet itself.


In the final cutscenes, we see visions of Zack, Aerith's summoning, Aerith's death, Cloud attacking Sephiroth, and Red XIII in the ending....but nothing beyond that. Meaning that it's all 100% in the context of the original FF7 and NOT the extended compilation.


It's possible that the future they're seeing is one in which the planet cleanses itself of humanity, which would explain why Aerith and Red XIII are the only ones who understand these visions the most, as Aerith was an Ancient / part of the lifestream, and Red XIII would have been the only party member to actually survive Holy.


This also may give logic to Sephiroth having an appeal to Cloud to help him -- the future where he loses is also one where humanity loses.

But Holy DIDN'T wipe out humanity. At least if you consider Advent Children as canon. You can't just "cut out" that.

But these characters DO see this future as bad. They go as far as to kill their future selves who were fighting to preserve the PS1 timeline.
 
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