Support NeoGAF

[Falk]

In terms of examples within the Final Fantasy franchise, I think XIII-2's implementation was a very nice hybrid. The fact that the normal and 'Aggressive Mix' tracks were both their own thing, yet were able to seamlessly transition between each other, was a really cool concept that played with 'layering' while respecting the very deliberate intention of the composer.

Definitely like to see stuff like that iterated upon. Lightning Returns and FFXV (demo) kind of use an 'aggressive mix' as a ramp-up to combat music, but it's not a seamless transition from a similar track, if that makes sense.

pls go n play nier

Oh I'm very well aware of the music in the entire Drakengard series.

If you want more examples (from Japan), Sonic Heroes does a bunch of music switching, as does Sonic Generations.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

I don't mind the silent parts. That's the last thing I'd even complain about in my list of complaints.

Bahahahaha

I thought it would bother me much more than it actually does. I mean yes its true that there has always been "overworld" or "worldmap" music when the later actually exists (ala say FFX or FFXIII) but its different here. For example, FF Type 0 has the most straight forward, FFI - FFIX style worldmap you can think of and it has suitably catchy, silly, grand, travel music to go along with it. Given how its stylized it would seem extremely odd without any sort of music, but not so with FXV.

The overworld is the most lifelike and real it has ever been and its not as if it is barren of music. When battles break out the music is smooth and transitions both in and out very well. When you approach an area with people, the music again fades in and out beautifully, be it the Chocobo Ranch or the garage.

Have faith in Shim-chan.

 

[Koozek]

pls go n play nier

Ooh, right! Forgot that one. I loved the soundtrack so much.

Ha, why's Verendus banned?

Lol, just noticed, too. Well, he gets banned every few months

Bahahahaha

I thought it would bother me much more than it actually does. I mean yes its true that there has always been "overworld" or "worldmap" music when the later actually exists (ala say FFX or FFXIII) but its different here. For example, FF Type 0 has the most straight forward, FFI - FFIX style worldmap you can think of and it has suitably catchy, silly, grand, travel music to go along with it. Given how its stylized it would seem extremely odd without any sort of music, but not so with FXV.

The overworld is the most lifelike and real it has ever been and its not as if it is barren of music. When battles break out the music is smooth and transitions both in and out very well. When you approach an area with people, the music again fades in and out beautifully, be it the Chocobo Ranch or the garage.

Have faith in Shim-chan.

As I said, I think that stuff isn't Shimomura's job. That's what the sound director does. She probably just makes what she's asked for.
And yeah, I think the silence plus ambient sounds is great, too. I would like them to even tone the alert and battle music down, too, or at least make it less repetetive (Falk had some good ideas, like having different loop starting points for the songs, etc.).

 

[Falk]

Shim-chan.

oh my god

 

[orioto]

You realize that this sounds very vague and more like a general feeling, probably nostalgia. How could a new FF ever replicate that again and be this "specific thing", anyway? What did you like the most?

I've explained my opinion many times last night. FF battle system (or rpgs for me) is about group strategy. Which will be improved here if there is some kind of control over the party, and less focus on complexity of solo action. When i say specificity, i mean not every game has to be demon soul/monster hunter..

I'm not specially into this kind of game with a sophisticated and complex action control, and tehre is nothing against it, but i personally like FF for something more on the strategic/tactic side, less than intense real time dexterity.

 

[wmlk]

In terms of examples within the Final Fantasy franchise, I think XIII-2's implementation was a very nice hybrid. The fact that the normal and 'Aggressive Mix' tracks were both their own thing, yet were able to seamlessly transition between each other, was a really cool concept that played with 'layering' while respecting the very deliberate intention of the composer.

Definitely like to see stuff like that iterated upon. Lightning Returns and FFXV (demo) kind of use an 'aggressive mix' as a ramp-up to combat music, but it's not a seamless transition from a similar track, if that makes sense.



Oh I'm very well aware of the music in the entire Drakengard series.

If you want more examples (from Japan), Sonic Heroes does a bunch of music switching, as does Sonic Generations.

I was/am hoping for intricate layering in the field music that we typically hear, and also at places like Coernix and Wiz Chocobo. Pokémon Black/White does this really well, with drums being put into the track as you march through the routes, and especially at towns where you can actually influence the music by just communicating with the NPC who play their respective instruments.

I think FFXV can do something similar to the variations you hear in EOIV. Labyrinth I - Cerulean Woodlands has the full ensemble and it's basically the whole experience. For Minor Labyrinth I, it lacks the flute and has more of a nature-y sound instead like what FFXV currently has (just not silent, obviously).

I can dream ;_;

 

[TheGreatDirector]

I've explained my opinion many times last night. FF battle system (or rpgs for me) is about group strategy. Which will be improved here if there is some kind of control over the party, and less focus on complexity of solo action. When i say specificity, i mean not every game has to be demon soul/monster hunter..

I'm not specially into this kind of game with a sophisticated and complex action control, and tehre is nothing against it, but i personally like FF for something more on the strategic/tactic side, less than intense real time dexterity.

Group strategy will most likely be emphasized in the full game. Gambits are being added to give control over the A.I. party members actions. Team attacks are gonna far more prevalent as well. The focus will still primarily be on Noctis, but you'll definitely need to work as a party as a whole in order to win fights.

 

[Philippo]

Is it me or Deadeye actually has scars only on the right side of the body? If so, amazing attention to details.

Also, i keep hating Noctis pants, like, really hate them.

 

[orioto]

Group strategy will most likely be emphasized in the full game. Gambits are being added to give control over the A.I. party members actions. Team attacks are gonna far more prevalent as well. The focus will still primarily be on Noctis, but you'll definitely need to work as a party as a whole in order to win fights.

Yes i hope, but the problem right now is also that the solo action is so complex and attention grabbing that you don't really have time for a global view of the battle. The whole thing with parry etc.. makes you focus on what Noctis does and that's it.

 

[Falk]

Deadeye definitely has some bizarre interactions going on when calculating damage. Sometimes you hit him for 3k. Other times you hit him for 1.2. His 'off-guard' state doesn't seem to be a single simple on/off toggle.

Trying to make sense of it.

Also parrying him doesn't do jack shit lol. "Oh wow grats you passed the strictest timing gimmick in the demo, here have your 3k damage and your 5 second stagger"

At least it looks cool

 

[Vashetti]

Anything to do after beating Behemoth?

Like is there any cool collectibles out in the wilderness to find?

 

[Koozek]

I've explained my opinion many times last night. FF battle system (or rpgs for me) is about group strategy. Which will be improved here if there is some kind of control over the party, and less focus on complexity of solo action. When i say specificity, i mean not every game has to be demon soul/monster hunter..

I'm not specially into this kind of game with a sophisticated and complex action control, and tehre is nothing against it, but i personally like FF for something more on the strategic/tactic side, less than intense real time dexterity.

Okay, I see. Just thought that statement sounded strange and like a rose-tinted glasses sentiment. But you are aware that FF has never been actually deep or strategic even with its turn-based battle system, right? If you like the classic ATB stuff more, that's absolutly fine. I just find it annoying how some folks insist on them being inherently more strategic, when they most of the time weren't and could be button-mashed through. But I don't want to explain all this again, we must have done this hundreds of times already on here^^ See this post that explains well why I don't feel pure turn-based would be exciting anymore without at least some real-time/twitch-based element:

While I agree with you, I think that problem extends far beyond FF, and to almost every JRPG series.

The much-lauded difficulty of the SMT (and related Persona titles) comes almost entirely from a need to "think", or so people say, but really the vast majority of fights come down to the same sort of rote memorization. There is rarely a reason to not go into every single fight using your weakness-targeting attacks on each enemy, and then buffs/debuffs if you know you need them and/or know the enemy is weak to particular ones.

All of these systems that ignore things like positioning and timing tend to fall into the same position, IMO, and that's one of memorization and repetition being more important than any higher-level thinking or strategy.

It's one of the main reasons I like the move towards real-time, because it add another element of unpredictability.

And regarding "group strategy": FFXV will have some form of Gambits (party AI configuration) mechanic in the final game.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Yes i hope, but the problem right now is also that the solo action is so complex and attention grabbing that you don't really have time for a global view of the battle. The whole thing with parry etc.. makes you focus on what Noctis does and that's it.

Perhaps that is a combinations of not just gameplay but game mechanics? For me, the closed in camera on Noctis made it hard to focus on the entire battle as my view was limited.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

oh my god

Girl don't hate, you do know me!

Deadeye definitely has some bizarre interactions going on when calculating damage. Sometimes you hit him for 3k. Other times you hit him for 1.2. His 'off-guard' state doesn't seem to be a single simple on/off toggle.

Trying to make sense of it.

Also parrying him doesn't do jack shit lol. "Oh wow grats you passed the strictest timing gimmick in the demo, here have your 3k damage and your 5 second stagger"

At least it looks cool

Eh, the Behemoth was also one of the worst looking assets in the game, his textures are a nightmare and his "accessories" are terrible looking lol I will say they succeeded in creating a character of him though...definitely terrifying and wild but intelligence.

Anything to do after beating Behemoth?

Like is there any cool collectibles out in the wilderness to find?

Did you do all of the side quests?

 

[Kagari]

I don't blame him, who would've thought it would look this bad once we got our hands on the game.

It's just funny because before release he and some others called it the best looking HD remaster out there.

 

[wmlk]

It's just funny because before release he and some others called it the best looking HD remaster out there.

'I ask. What better jrpg is coming out on ps4 This year?'

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

It's just funny because before release he and some others called it the best looking HD remaster out there.

Who the fuck said that lol

 

[orioto]

Okay, I see. Just thought that statement sounded strange and like a rose-tinted glasses sentiment. But you are aware that FF has never been actually deep or strategic even with its turn-based battle system, right? If you like the classic ATB stuff more, that's absolutly fine. I just find it annoying how some folks insist on them being inherently more strategic, when they most of the time weren't and could be button-mashed through. But I don't want to explain all this again, we must have done this hundreds of times already on here^^ See this post that explains well why I don't feel pure turn-based would be exciting anymore without at least some real-time/twitch-based element:

FFXII and XIII had the right approach to me. i'm not into super classical slow ass turn based system neither. I'm all about some real time action, as long as there is still that.. how can i say that.. that little distance that makes you more of a coach changing strategies, than a soldier focused on his sword. That's were the balance is for me.

Perhaps that is a combinations of not just gameplay but game mechanics? For me, the closed in camera on Noctis made it hard to focus on the entire battle as my view was limited.

There is that sure, but not only. Right now, focusing on looking at what enemies are doing, parrying at the right time, dodging.. al with thise really quick enemies.; I mean this is a level of investment in that aspect that, to me, doesn't let you enjoy any other aspect.

 

[Falk]

It's just funny because before release he and some others called it the best looking HD remaster out there.

Hey, if you're referring to my comment at PAX East, I stand by what I said that it looks amazing in motion.

Except that that was standing 10ft away from the demo stations. I'm running into motion sickness playing it on my screen, so currently doing remote play on Vita

Spoiler

like it was meant to be

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Bahahahaha

I thought it would bother me much more than it actually does. I mean yes its true that there has always been "overworld" or "worldmap" music when the later actually exists (ala say FFX or FFXIII) but its different here. For example, FF Type 0 has the most straight forward, FFI - FFIX style worldmap you can think of and it has suitably catchy, silly, grand, travel music to go along with it. Given how its stylized it would seem extremely odd without any sort of music, but not so with FXV.

The overworld is the most lifelike and real it has ever been and its not as if it is barren of music. When battles break out the music is smooth and transitions both in and out very well. When you approach an area with people, the music again fades in and out beautifully, be it the Chocobo Ranch or the garage.

Have faith in Shim-chan.

Ooh, right! Forgot that one. I loved the soundtrack so much.



Lol, just noticed, too. Well, he gets banned every few months



As I said, I think that stuff isn't Shimomura's job. That's what the sound director does. She probably just makes what she's asked for.
And yeah, I think the silence plus ambient sounds is great, too. I would like them to even tone the alert and battle music down, too, or at least make it less repetetive (Falk had some good ideas, like having different loop starting points for the songs, etc.).

Well however you guys put it I agree. The silence then followed by encounter music is a nice touch. I see it being used for some areas, not to say that classic overworld music won't appear it probably will when you reach specific towns and cities. And maybe a event or two. I feel it not out of place for final fantasy and quite welcome it if they do go for it

Also like the fact that the music can change depending on time of day

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Hey, if you're referring to my comment at PAX East, I stand by what I said that it looks amazing in motion.

Except that that was standing 10ft away from the demo stations. I'm running into motion sickness playing it on my screen, so currently doing remote play on Vita

Spoiler

like it was meant to be

Perfo, not you lol

 

[Kagari]

Hey, if you're referring to my comment at PAX East, I stand by what I said that it looks amazing in motion.

Except that that was standing 10ft away from the demo stations. I'm running into motion sickness playing it on my screen, so currently doing remote play on Vita

Spoiler

like it was meant to be

Was talking about Perfo, Famassu mainly.

 

[Falk]

i mistook myself for perfo


this is the end

 

[FerDS]

xD

you guys are mean

 

[Zoe]

Hey, if you're referring to my comment at PAX East, I stand by what I said that it looks amazing in motion.

Except that that was standing 10ft away from the demo stations. I'm running into motion sickness playing it on my screen, so currently doing remote play on Vita

Spoiler

like it was meant to be

Wait, there's some other way to play it?

 

[Koozek]

FFXII and XIII had the right approach to me. i'm not into super classical slow ass turn based system neither. I'm all about some real time action, as long as there is still that.. how can i say that.. that little distance that makes you more of a coach changing strategies, than a soldier focused on his sword. That's were the balance is for me.



There is that sure, but not only. Right now, focusing on looking at what enemies are doing, parrying at the right time, dodging.. al with thise really quick enemies.; I mean this is a level of investment in that aspect that, to me, doesn't let you enjoy any other aspect.

Ooh okay, now I understand. Yeah, nothing wrong about that. You want to be the coach, not the athlete itself (funnily FF's clasic battle system was inspired by football). I like to be involved more, never liked strategy games, either, for example.
I've always loved turn-based, though, but in recent years it started to feel slow, tedious and, most of the time, mindless to me. My favorite battle systems are those of the Shadow Hearts and Baten Kaitos series. They are turn-based but with an extra real-time- and luck-based mechanic respectively that keeps me on my toes all the time and adds another engaging layer on top of the whole system.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Really impressed by the demo.
Knowing it's just a bite-sized sample and it over a year away just fucking kills me, though. :/

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Ooh okay, now I understand. Yeah, nothing wrong about that. You want to be the coach, not the athlete itself (funnily FF's clasic battle system was inspired by football). I like to be involved more, never liked strategy games, either, for example.
I've always loved turn-based, though, but in recent years it started to feel slow, tedious and, most of the time, mindless to me. My favorite battle systems are those of the Shadow Hearts and Baten Kaitos series. They are turn-based but with an extra real-time- and luck-based mechanic respectively that keeps me on my toes all the time and adds another engaging layer on top of the whole system.

I guess its different for all of us. I do adore turn based battle systems but I've come to find other JRPGs for that type of gameplay...Persona, Atelier Series,Neptunia etc and FF for other forms.

FFXIII for example I turned to because I hate myself and wanted to cry blood for 42 hours. Again, FFXIII Versus was always going to be action based and more KH tilted in battle and to me it is awesome.

But I understand Orito, I guess when Versus was a sidestep, an offshoot from the main titles, its actiony concept was easier to swallow. Now that its FFXV, more than a few people are understandably (to an extent) disappointed.

 

[Koozek]

I guess its different for all of us. I do adore turn based battle systems but I've come to find other JRPGs for that type of gameplay...Persona, Atelier Series,Neptunia etc and FF for other forms.

FFXIII for example I turned to because I hate myself and wanted to cry blood for 42 hours. Again, FFXIII Versus was always going to be action based and more KH tilted in battle and to me it is awesome.

But I understand Orito, I guess when Versus was a sidestep, an offshoot from the main titles, its actiony concept was easier to swallow. Now that its FFXV, more than a few people are understandably (to an extent) disappointed.

You see, I absolutly don't a have a problem with different people liking different things, but most of the time when people complained about FFXV after the re-reveal and recent trailers they seemed very unreflected and blinded by nostalgia, where in their mind every single battle in classic FFs were the most epic life and death fight when all it actually was was button-mashing "Attack" most of the time
I don't need every single battle to be impactful and special, of course, but I'd rather have button-mashy battles in real-time instead, so that it at least feels like I'm doing something besides watching bars fill up.

To the experts in here like Falk:
Does MP fill up by hitting or maybe only after parrying enemies in the demo? If not would that be a good risk-reward mechanic (similar to how you regain lost HP in Bloodborne when you attack timely)?

 

[Falk]

To the experts in here like Falk:
Does MP fill up by hitting or maybe only after parrying enemies in the demo? If not would that be a good risk-reward mechanic (similar to how you regain lost HP in Bloodborne when you attack timely)?

MP fills up in cover or hanging off a tower which is the opposite because it rewards you for not being risked.

(this is a huge problem)

To answer your question though (although it gets basically invalidated by the above) you regenerate mana by hitting stuff, or waiting. Hitting with a weapon with MP Recovery (or, in the case of Blood Sword, MP Recovery III) speeds up this process even further.

 

[Koozek]

MP fills up in cover or hanging off a tower which is the opposite because it rewards you for not being risked.

(this is a huge problem)

Okay, that I knew. Thought there might be something else that most didn't notice. Didn't know what to think of that cover/tower hanging stuff when I saw it last week. Maybe it's a safety net for players who feel overwhelmed by action mechanics. Maybe refilling a chunk after parrying would be good? So that you could regain the MP you used for parrying (you have to dodge first, right?) if you're good. That would be exactly like Bloodborne then, just with MP instead of HP. You'd have to shorten the parry time window a bit then, though, I guess.

To answer your question though (although it gets basically invalidated by the above) you regenerate mana by hitting stuff, or waiting. Hitting with a weapon with MP Recovery (or, in the case of Blood Sword, MP Recovery III) speeds up this process even further.

Oh, so hitting without the special MP Recovery skill does fill it up, too. That's nice at least. I don't want MP to break up the flow of battles too much, to be honest. Especially not if it means having to warp to a tower every once in a while.
Finding the balance between being careful with MP making battles more tense and it ruining the flow could be pretty difficult.

 

[Ray Down]

i mistook myself for perfo


this is the end

 

[dragonzdogma]

Chakra!!!

 

[Philippo]

Do you think we'll find

Spoiler

Ramuh

in the same spot in the final game? Seems a little too easy to achieve

Chakra!!!

Noctis is Sasuke confirmed

 

[Koozek]

Do you think we'll find

Spoiler

Ramuh

in the same spot in the final game? Seems a little too easy to achieve



Noctis is Sasuke confirmed

Well, if you think about it finding the summons in FFVII, for example, was pretty anticlimactic, too^^ Like the Titan or Odin materias just lying around somewhere. The summons themselves were mind-blowing, of course. Same thing here, so far. But I'm sure there will be summons that you'll have to fight first (Titan probably).

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Yusuke Naora gave a presentation recently on the visual evolution of Final Fantasy series and he showed this artwork. Does this confirm the Versus scene is still in the game?

 

[Ishida]

Yosuke Naora gave a presentation recently on the visual evolution of Final Fantasy series and he showed this artwork. Does this confirm the Versus scene is still in the game?

I'm willing to bet most Versus scenes are still in the game.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I'm willing to bet most Versus scenes are still in the game.

I am just wondering how this will all fit in the timeline.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

I am just wondering how this will all fit in the timeline.

The

Spoiler

artwork at the end

showed an extremely contemporary looking city, outside of some architecture and airships not so far removed from today.

 

[Flarin]

Yusuke Naora gave a presentation recently on the visual evolution of Final Fantasy series and he showed this artwork. Does this confirm the Versus scene is still in the game?

I think that was pretty much confirmed in the Jump Festa trailer and ending of the demo.
Invasion of Insomnia, big battle, Noctis and crew have to go on the run. Pretty much been the set up for as long back as I can remember. I think XV will be a lot like the old Versus trailers more so than people think.

 

[Koozek]

Yusuke Naora gave a presentation recently on the visual evolution of Final Fantasy series and he showed this artwork. Does this confirm the Versus scene is still in the game?

That was a month ago^^ Amazing artworks.

 

[MultiJhonny]

Yusuke Naora gave a presentation recently on the visual evolution of Final Fantasy series and he showed this artwork. Does this confirm the Versus scene is still in the game?

I feel like alot of versus stuff is still in. One thing that gives me confidence in this is the interview IGN did with Tabata and he pretty much said he wanted to change the 4 bro aspect of it but he said that he wouldn't since that was core to what Nomura wanted so he granted Nomuras wish. This makes me think that most if not all of what Nomura specifically wanted to stay is in.

 

[Lifejumper]

I remember Tabata saying that he likes to start his games with a bang... Invasion of lucis seems like a intro with a bang.

Could be wrong though.

 

[Philippo]

Well, if you think about it finding the summons in FFVII, for example, was pretty anticlimactic, too^^ Like the Titan or Odin materias just lying around somewhere. The summons themselves were mind-blowing, of course. Same thing here, so far. But I'm sure there will be summons that you'll have to fight first (Titan probably).

That's true, maybe i'm just not used to it anymore lol
But yeah Titan, Leviathan will definitely be bosses before

Spoiler

please Bahamut and Ifrith too

Yusuke Naora gave a presentation recently on the visual evolution of Final Fantasy series and he showed this artwork. Does this confirm the Versus scene is still in the game?

Yeah no way they'd took it out, it's the perfect prologue for the game's plot.

I am just wondering how this will all fit in the timeline.

I think it'll play like this:
-Beginning in Duscae as a tutorial on basic gameplay, maybe first part of Deadeye's hunt
-Invasion scene in Insomnia
-Party flees from the city directed to Lestallum, rest of Duscae content avaible

 

[threelights]

I remember Tabata saying that he likes to start his games with a bang... Invasion of lucis seems like a intro with a bang.

Could be wrong though.

As long as he doesn't kill more Chocobos.

That vile man...

 

[DarkLordMalik]

That was a month ago^^ Amazing artworks.

Holy shit!

Can't wait to see this all in the game. Wow

I think it'll play like this:
-Beginning in Duscae as a tutorial on basic gameplay, maybe first part of Deadeye's hunt
-Invasion scene in Insomnia
-Party flees from the city directed to Lestallum, rest of Duscae content avaible

I don't think the car is going to break down in the final game, other than that, this should be an epic opening for the game.

 

[DeSolos]

I think that was pretty much confirmed in the Jump Festa trailer and ending of the demo.
Invasion of Insomnia, big battle, Noctis and crew have to go on the run. Pretty much been the set up for as long back as I can remember. I think XV will be a lot like the old Versus trailers more so than people think.

The last time we saw the area with the signing ceremony banners, Noct and crew were there. The events are definitely still in the game; whether or not the bros are there while they happen is TBD... There's one cutscene from TGS 2014 that suggests they're in the Duscae region prior to the signing.

One thing from the most recent teaser that has me hopeful is

Spoiler

Regis offering words of wisdom to "the one who carries the royal blood"(most likely Noctis), this could be something he says directly to Noctis. It could also be some Shakespearean monologue, him writing a letter, him telling Stelluna/Cor to tell him later, or a million other possible plot contrivances to somehow make it so Noct doesn't have to be there to get the message. That said, this could be a sign that he is there.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

I think it'll play like this:
-Beginning in Duscae as a tutorial on basic gameplay, maybe first part of Deadeye's hunt
-Invasion scene in Insomnia
-Party flees from the city directed to Lestallum, rest of Duscae content avaible

So where does Noctis in a suit meeting Stella/Luna fit in? Cause if I remember correctly they attacked Noctis at that party

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

As long as he doesn't kill more Chocobos.

That vile man...

You don't even understand, that scene destroyed me.

 

[DeSolos]

As long as he doesn't kill more Chocobos.

That vile man...

You don't even understand, that scene destroyed me.

Well...