HR for a company is the company, they're not a 3rd party.
The whole post screams of diverting ownership and blame.
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Former Naughty Dog employee says he was sexually harassed by a lead in late 2015
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
The whole post screams of diverting ownership and blame.
Dark Cloud
Member
Why would people calling for Sony to get bad press be pushing an agenda? Man grow up.
sublimit
Banned
Well at least from now on he should say the real reason.Hopefully he'll get a job soon.
If that could be true then fuck this industry.
Cramoss
Member
First of all, step outside your social comfort zone some time. Might do you some good.
From personal experience, it's very agitating and creates a tense to toxic work atmosphere for a long time after you've shunned the persons advances. I wasn't scarred or threatened enough to try and get her fired but that shit sucks and gets much worse for a lot of people.
I cant think of them keeping a serial harrasser no matter how talented he is, this isnr the nfl jk. But according to accusers that person is no longer at naughty dog, so why go out their way to protect him.
Thats quite the autocorrect error
CannonFodder52
Member
Sorry to hear that buddy. Stuff like this is awful.
Well let's think about this logically. This person works in a heavily connected industry wherein many people know and talk to each, lots of turnover between different companies, etc, etc. It's an environment where abusive work practices thrives, and anyone who complains is not welcome, much like Silicon Valley or Hollywood, etc. It's not surprising people don't come forward with this stuff, particularly men, because they are ashamed, and don't know who they can talk to or trust.
Let's also keep in mind that HR practices in male dominated industries tend to be sub standard.
Daffy Duck
Member
Thats fucking disgusting of Sony.
I mean, it's just not as simple as that. Some things are harder to give up than others, and what is and isn't hard to give up changes from person to person. It's totally reasonable for someone who likes but doesn't love ND's games to go "You know what, I'm gonna hold off in the future and spend my money elsewhere". That person shouldn't be attacked for expressing that opinion, and it shouldn't be assumed that they're just "virtue signalling". You say "are we all going to boycott his movies", but ultimately it's not a group decision. This way of talking about it sort of destroys a lot of the nuance that comes along with these personal decisions. And I'm guilty of this too. I said I'm not on the "Let's boycott Sony" train, implying with "let's" (let us) that I was also talking about some group decision. But you can totally support one problematic thing and not another, in fact most of us do. The toxic line of thinking that people who have any moral outrage should have every moral outrage is just a way of putting down people that you're worried think they're better than you. Saying "screw ND I'm done with them" isn't the same as saying "screw ND and anybody who supports their games in the future is also a bad person", but people get fairly defensive about this stuff and read that in as subtext that the original commenter probably never intended.
Wait, the harasser is no longer with ND?
Then hopefully Sony/ND can own up to this and blow it open. Best thing to do I think.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Reading all these stories it pisses me off even more that my wife chose not to saying anything about her boss at the time (the CEO of the company) grabbing her ass ON STAGE in front of the whole company during an end of season thing until like 5 years later.
Baroquemantic
Member
Ugh, this is awful. Hope the harasser is exposed. And I hope David is able to find a job.
This isn't just an issue with individuals, it is an issue with how the company handled the matter. When the company handles a sexual harassment allegation in the complete wrong way, then putting pressure on the company to correct those serious problems is perfectly reasonable. A boycott is a pretty effective method of putting pressure on a company that can send a clear message.
Boycotts, strikes, and similar tools have a very long history of successfully bringing change. Downplaying their usefulness is just foolish.
Someone earlier in the thread explained what the money could have been. Basically any payments or bonuses can be withheld if you sign an agreement waving your rights to sue. It's like a corporate policy thing.
Now they could have tried to pay said person off and that's disgusting.
I'm not saying I don't want stories written about this. But there are some people in this thread with one track minds who just want Sony to have bad press. Ok so Sony gets a few days to a weeks wroth of bad press. What changes? Sony will survive that. They'll put out a token statement and say they'll make some policy changes.
But what REALLY changes? Absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. Because it goes much bigger than just ND and Sony. It's the industry at large and we've heard countless stories about it.
Write this story about Sony and ND because it is worth writing about. But encourage the victims to speak out if they wish.
DangerMouse
Member
If that could be true then fuck this industry.
Yeah, I imagine it's sadly quite possible in a lot of heavily connected industries, plus where people move around a lot between these companies, for certain people to blacklist other people.
Omnistalgic
Member
Shady shady shade everywhere...
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely...
Going to play MARIO Kart and ignore this crappy world. Unfortunately, nothing here is surprisingly shocking.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely...
Going to play MARIO Kart and ignore this crappy world. Unfortunately, nothing here is surprisingly shocking.
I pass my condolences. It's just shocking how people think they can act this way and receive no consequence.
Jonneh3003
Banned
That's what the legal system is for. If we doubt claims like this though then people just won't speak up.
Shit. Sorry she had to go through that.
And no one spoke up? Or did anything? Damn.
I suppose I'm just vindictive then; letting such fuckery slide simply isn't an option.
That statement about the rabid fanbase potentially hounding/harassing him is very true though, in which case laying low wouldn't be such a bad idea.
Good point, being blacklisted is a very real possibility in this industry, especially if such a high-caliber studio is involved.
Not if he wasnt fired for harrasment. That leaves them open to a defamation lawsuits. Look at the whole Kesha situation.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
THE ENTIRE COMPANY watched it happen. We're talking a group of like 100 plus people.
Finale Fireworker
Member
I have had three experiences that have given me a lot of perspective on sexual harassment. I am mobile and working so please mind typos.
1. When I was eighteen, I worked as a housekeeper at an upscale inn. I worked seven days a week, but the hours were short, and the pay was incredible. I would work four hours there and make more than I did working eight hours at my other job. The inn was owned by a middle-aged married couple. They were very, very well liked by the community and their guests.
The husband used to follow me around from room to room as I cleaned and reset them. At first it was under the guise of a quality check, but then it was clear he was just hanging around to talk. He would ask me questions about my life and my plans. He would also always ask if I had found any "naughty things" in the suites. This was always his launching pad for a dirty joke or sexual comment. I just laughed with him even though it was never very funny.
Eventually the comments really ramped up. I started to dread when he would darken the doorway. He would stand there, blocking the only exit, and watch me make the beds and clean the sinks and ask me how I knew I wasn't gay. He would tell me "God blessed me with strong intuition" and tell me how gay I was. He would try to get me to come out to him even though I assured him I was not gay. He would call me "young dumb and full of cum" and other gross things. And if I ever seemed upset, he would give me a raise. I just let it happen and kept collecting the paychecks.
Eventually, I asked for a few days off (four months in advance) to go on vacation. He didn't like the idea, he didn't want me to leave, and didn't think it was "fair" my family would plan a trip when they knew I was working. I explained it wasn't a family trip, it was a trip with my girlfriend, and he fired me immediately.
This taught me that you cannot hope sexual harassment will stop and that keeping your head down to keep your job will not last forever. Eventually, something will happen, and you'll always wish you got out sooner.
2. I was 24 and managing a movie theater. There was a girl there who I was really attracted to, and she was very nice to me, and I thought I could leverage that into a date. We were definitely friends, but I wanted to be more than friends, so I started manipulating the schedule to give us more time together.
I would schedule the two of us to work the same nights. I would send other people home so it was just the two of us. I would keep her late so we could talk alone in the office. I don't know if she ever expected anything. I think, to her, we were just good work friends. I started to get frustrated that nothing was happening.
So I started physically putting myself close to her more often. I would follow her around. I would lean against her. I would intentionally try to pass by her and put my hands on her as I did. Finally, one time, I followed her into a small stock room. I stood in the doorway and watched her and knew she wouldn't be able to leave the room without squeezing by me or asking me to move. I wanted her to touch me. So I intentionally blocked her exit.
And as I was doing this, I had a really sickening epiphany that I was doing to her what my boss at the inn used to to. It was like being hit with some kind of dark lightning. It felt like all the flesh had exploded off my bones and all that was left was my hideous naked skeleton. I backed out of the doorway, went to the office, and never bothered her again.
This taught me that people repeat behavior they've seen, even bad behavior, because they do not perceive themselves as being bad. They normalize their own impulses, they rationalize their own actions, and anybody is capable of harassment.
3. When I was 25, I started working in a corporate environment at an extremely progressively-minded company. In my department, there was a man and a woman who used to date. The woman broke it off a year before, and was six months pregnant, and the man refused to let her go.
The man was always telling her how they were meant to be together. How he would wait for her. He would get angry when she talked to other guys in the office in any capacity. He was constantly demanding she explain herself, or tell him what she was doing, and was always leering at her over the desk partition. Not only did it make her work environment hostile, it was extremely uncomfortable for everyone around them who knew what was happening.
One day, he insists the two of them go to lunch together. She goes with him. But he doesn't take her anywhere, and he won't talk to her, and he won't stop the car. She texts me that she is afraid and doesn't know what happening. She is afraid she might be getting kinapped. I immediately make a dart for Human Resources and tell her I will call the police. But then she texts me not to and says he is turning around. She says she will deal with it when she gets back.
She returns safely, but I still go to HR. I lay it all out. I pull no punches and describe everything that happened, has been happening, and how it affects everyone in the office. The responses I got were maddening.
I was told everything I relayed was hearsay and inadmissible. This kind of report would need to come from one of them and I couldn't make a claim like this on somebody else's behalf.
I was told that since the "kidnapping" occurred during an unpaid lunch break and off of company property, it wasn't a company issue and there was nothing that could be done.
I was told that, since the two of them used to date, I couldn't be sure it was sexual harassment and shouldn't make such bold claims.
This taught me that, even at the best companies, the first instinct of Human Resources is to diminish and downplay the situation to make you doubt its seriousness. They ask how you can be sure, they say there is another side of the story, and they say they are powerless to do anything unless very specific criteria is met. At the end of the day, their job is to make problems go away by taking the path of least resistance. Sometimes this mean justice for the victim and sometimes it means sweeping it under the rug. Whatever can be done most easily and most quietly is what will be done.
These experiences in my life have made me extremely passionate about workplace abuse. I do not stand for it at all. More awareness, more conversation, and more victims coming forward is the best thing that can happen here. Companies need to learn that protecting their employees is the only way to protect their company. They need to be held responsible for what happens under their roofs. Challenge their reputations, make them answer for their failures, and force their hand for change.
That's how I feel.
1. When I was eighteen, I worked as a housekeeper at an upscale inn. I worked seven days a week, but the hours were short, and the pay was incredible. I would work four hours there and make more than I did working eight hours at my other job. The inn was owned by a middle-aged married couple. They were very, very well liked by the community and their guests.
The husband used to follow me around from room to room as I cleaned and reset them. At first it was under the guise of a quality check, but then it was clear he was just hanging around to talk. He would ask me questions about my life and my plans. He would also always ask if I had found any "naughty things" in the suites. This was always his launching pad for a dirty joke or sexual comment. I just laughed with him even though it was never very funny.
Eventually the comments really ramped up. I started to dread when he would darken the doorway. He would stand there, blocking the only exit, and watch me make the beds and clean the sinks and ask me how I knew I wasn't gay. He would tell me "God blessed me with strong intuition" and tell me how gay I was. He would try to get me to come out to him even though I assured him I was not gay. He would call me "young dumb and full of cum" and other gross things. And if I ever seemed upset, he would give me a raise. I just let it happen and kept collecting the paychecks.
Eventually, I asked for a few days off (four months in advance) to go on vacation. He didn't like the idea, he didn't want me to leave, and didn't think it was "fair" my family would plan a trip when they knew I was working. I explained it wasn't a family trip, it was a trip with my girlfriend, and he fired me immediately.
This taught me that you cannot hope sexual harassment will stop and that keeping your head down to keep your job will not last forever. Eventually, something will happen, and you'll always wish you got out sooner.
2. I was 24 and managing a movie theater. There was a girl there who I was really attracted to, and she was very nice to me, and I thought I could leverage that into a date. We were definitely friends, but I wanted to be more than friends, so I started manipulating the schedule to give us more time together.
I would schedule the two of us to work the same nights. I would send other people home so it was just the two of us. I would keep her late so we could talk alone in the office. I don't know if she ever expected anything. I think, to her, we were just good work friends. I started to get frustrated that nothing was happening.
So I started physically putting myself close to her more often. I would follow her around. I would lean against her. I would intentionally try to pass by her and put my hands on her as I did. Finally, one time, I followed her into a small stock room. I stood in the doorway and watched her and knew she wouldn't be able to leave the room without squeezing by me or asking me to move. I wanted her to touch me. So I intentionally blocked her exit.
And as I was doing this, I had a really sickening epiphany that I was doing to her what my boss at the inn used to to. It was like being hit with some kind of dark lightning. It felt like all the flesh had exploded off my bones and all that was left was my hideous naked skeleton. I backed out of the doorway, went to the office, and never bothered her again.
This taught me that people repeat behavior they've seen, even bad behavior, because they do not perceive themselves as being bad. They normalize their own impulses, they rationalize their own actions, and anybody is capable of harassment.
3. When I was 25, I started working in a corporate environment at an extremely progressively-minded company. In my department, there was a man and a woman who used to date. The woman broke it off a year before, and was six months pregnant, and the man refused to let her go.
The man was always telling her how they were meant to be together. How he would wait for her. He would get angry when she talked to other guys in the office in any capacity. He was constantly demanding she explain herself, or tell him what she was doing, and was always leering at her over the desk partition. Not only did it make her work environment hostile, it was extremely uncomfortable for everyone around them who knew what was happening.
One day, he insists the two of them go to lunch together. She goes with him. But he doesn't take her anywhere, and he won't talk to her, and he won't stop the car. She texts me that she is afraid and doesn't know what happening. She is afraid she might be getting kinapped. I immediately make a dart for Human Resources and tell her I will call the police. But then she texts me not to and says he is turning around. She says she will deal with it when she gets back.
She returns safely, but I still go to HR. I lay it all out. I pull no punches and describe everything that happened, has been happening, and how it affects everyone in the office. The responses I got were maddening.
I was told everything I relayed was hearsay and inadmissible. This kind of report would need to come from one of them and I couldn't make a claim like this on somebody else's behalf.
I was told that since the "kidnapping" occurred during an unpaid lunch break and off of company property, it wasn't a company issue and there was nothing that could be done.
I was told that, since the two of them used to date, I couldn't be sure it was sexual harassment and shouldn't make such bold claims.
This taught me that, even at the best companies, the first instinct of Human Resources is to diminish and downplay the situation to make you doubt its seriousness. They ask how you can be sure, they say there is another side of the story, and they say they are powerless to do anything unless very specific criteria is met. At the end of the day, their job is to make problems go away by taking the path of least resistance. Sometimes this mean justice for the victim and sometimes it means sweeping it under the rug. Whatever can be done most easily and most quietly is what will be done.
These experiences in my life have made me extremely passionate about workplace abuse. I do not stand for it at all. More awareness, more conversation, and more victims coming forward is the best thing that can happen here. Companies need to learn that protecting their employees is the only way to protect their company. They need to be held responsible for what happens under their roofs. Challenge their reputations, make them answer for their failures, and force their hand for change.
That's how I feel.
They already acted by firing him and offering hush money. You have a faith in a cooperation?
Daffy Duck
Member
I dunno, maybe in the future they dont try to shout down someone whos a victim of sexual harassment and fire them the next day?
Thats a good place to start.
tkscz
Member
I've been sexually harassed and straight up raped by women. I'm a heterosexual man. Men don't just want sex all the time and we can and have been raped and sexually harassed by women. This line of thinking pisses me right off.
The Living Tribunal
Member
What the hell
Ah right, thanks for the explanation and sorry for quick quoting without reading any context towards it!
Alcotholic
Banned
I'm glad people are gaining the courage to speak up. The entertainment industry needs to be flipped over and cleaned out. Get that shit out of here.
I feel for the dude. Sexual harassment is fucking frustrating and poisons any environment.
I feel for the dude. Sexual harassment is fucking frustrating and poisons any environment.
You might want to fix this if it's an error.
The Living Tribunal
Member
They already did, they tried to buy his silence.
Liliana Eileen
Member
Why am I seeing the same fucking faces shilling for Sony and trying to divert attention away from the topic at hand? This is disgusting. Not gonna bother quoting the lot of you now but please stop making this about console wars and defending Papa Sony.
On topic: Corporate is NEVER your friend; this is true. But, Sony took it a step further and attempted to BRIBE this man, while having wrongfullly terminated him and causing him stress over a 17month time span of not being able to find work and having to lie about it because he feels ashamed WHEN HE SHOULDN'T BE. I would've sued the fuck out of Sony here and win bigtime, but maybe it's beyond that time for him. I wish him the best of luck.
thank you for sharing that.
I hope that sharing experiences means that people won't have to all go through these experiences to understand how serious these matters are. I don't want to live in a world where the only people who are as passionate as you are about these matters have to also have had your experiences.
Nah it's cool. and I don't know if that IS the reason, but the poster said it's possible it's just some company policy shit they do if they are letting you go.
Wow, thank you for taking the time to write that.
Jawbreaker
Member
This is really awful to hear. I also hope it gives other people in the industry the courage to speak out.
veterangamerUK
Member
Wow.....I guess you also think it's ok for a female teacher to come on to a male teenage pupil?
God damn that's messed up.
Don't. I know you're intentions are good, but let the victims expose those involved if and when they choose to. Just my two cents on that.
Anyway, I hope we hear from Sony on this at some point.
There's also this response from someone else.
A quick google search of Naughty Dog and Niantic brings up someone, but I don't know what the rules are on this sort of stuff, don't want to start a witch hunt if it's not the right person.
Don't. I know you're intentions are good, but let the victims expose those involved if and when they choose to. Just my two cents on that.
Anyway, I hope we hear from Sony on this at some point.
I think laboronx may be conflating two different stories. Ballard didn't say if the harasser in his story is still at Naughty Dog (though I think the implication is that they either still are, or that if they left it wasn't due to the harassment allegations). Someone else replied to Ballard's tweet thread saying she was also harassed by a Naughty Dog employee who now works at a Niantic. We don't know if the person in Ballard's story is the same person.
Funyarinpa
Member
Thank you for sharing all that.
I understand, and it's not right. And it's not just. And no, I have no "faith" in a company acting against itself to protect employees, simply because they already failed at that, which is why I said it's disgusting. Further silence from them would be even worse, is my point.
Your not going to here much more than, sony is investigating these allegations,
Sony supports a harassment free environment, yada yada yada
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.